A Letter to Klei

[Fuffles]

Klei employees do read forum threads, suggestions and alike, I know as I experienced one going wrong; They take feedback in shadow, and also respond in shadow meaning they wont directly say anything here.
I may have lost interest in this game months ago, but I can still see Klei listening to the community, especially when its about character reworks and existing content. Sometimes executing said feedback takes time, a very long time, but it generally comes sooner or later. Yes they make some bad decissions and it feels like they are too stubborn to change, but what can you do? change is the hardest thing to do as a human afterall

[minespatch]

38 minutes ago, Superlucas1231 said:

"When is Shipwreck going to be ported, When is Hamlet going to be ported, Winona needs a refresh, wendy is OP and needs a nerf, Celestial portal is OP and needs to be nerfed, summer isn't fun, raid boss cheesing shouldn't exist, the animation doesn't look good, this game needs more survival content, when is forge going to come back, when is gorge going to come back, ocean content is boring,  people are griefing/abusing tools that are made to protect against griefing, etc."

 

Makes me think of ancient Egypt's  Anubis with his morality scale. I imagine the devs scything through the different santa claus wish list items and going for the plausible choices while putting other things on the backburner.

 

Personally I'd love to see the devs personal wants and concept art become realized, like the Tesla trees.

[-Variant]

If you're going out of your way to make a thread and post saying that Klei doesn't listen to their community, maybe you're the one not paying attention.
That is most certainly not the case and Klei is one of the most open and transparent companies I've seen in a long time. Thing's been a bit rough lately I get that but honestly, for what its worth they've been, and still are, doing a phenomenal job.

[zenburu]

After seeing what public servers full of mods look like, I wouldn't listen to community suggestions either lol

But seriously, listening to the community ≠ doing everything we ask for.

[minespatch]

4 minutes ago, zenburu said:

But seriously, listening to the community ≠ doing everything we ask for.

I prefer the devs perfecting unimplmented assets or repainting unused things and presenting them as new content. Shame those apple trees in Hamlet were unused.

[BezKa]

Maybe if the community didn't have such horrid ideas they would listen more xD 

On a serious note, if they did everything we ask for, we would get nothing new and original. Klei has to put huge effort to 

1. Hear the community out- considering the amount of suggestions and how lengthy some of the threads get, not even mentioning when people refuse to write correctly (my brain just shuts off when I'm writing something here half the time)

2. Filter out the straight up bad ideas

3. Consider the interesting ones in the grand scheme of the game we already have and what they're already planning and might plan for the future

4. Actually implement what they decide is good for the game.

All while giving us content updates, character refreshes, doing events, adding skins (+ twitch drops which are additionally messy bc of connection to another platform) and handling the Klei rewards. 

And that's just for one game. And they do have more to take care of, as you all know. 

[Woloa]

So... were you planning to cite anything as far as these 'good ideas' klei are ignoring or these 'less visible' aspects of the game you know so well?

[Gi-Go]

I mean, what was the last good idea this community suggested without turning it into a debate? 

[Cheggf]

Klei listens to the community more than the average game studio. It's not that uncommon for me to see a red name react to a post or leave a comment. They can't do every single thing the community asks for, because if they did then they would just keep undoing and redoing the same things over and over again as different people ask for different things. They have a vision of their own that the community can influence, not doing whatever any random person on the forums demands them to do.

[goblinball]

12 hours ago, Souper said:

While we're on the topic of speed, I should mention that it's definitely still a concern. I'm not going to pretend to know the intricacies of indie game development or the hardships that the ongoing pandemic might have created for you all, but I will say that it really takes you an exceptionally long time to implement anything, really.

I stopped reading here, I’m going to be honest. The fact klei is able to release monthly updates filled with great content is stunning. DST gets new and better content faster than any other game I know of. Don’t forget the shorts, too.

[sudoku]

I believe they do listen to the community, sometimes imo too much so, where they sacrifice their own vision of mechanics and content to fall more in line with community expectation, which sometimes is fine if their original vision has massive problems, but it also is sometimes not fine because the community doesnt want to stray too far from what they are used to doing. It is a balancing act to be sure, and Klei mostly does a good job with this. 

In terms of listening to community feedback when it comes to actual content, i think they could do better. I do remember Joe saying they listen to feedback but they prefer to do their own things when it comes to making content, which kind of sucks as someone who has been pushing seasonal/boss refreshes and switchng up base game content as a whole. But again, it is a balancing act because not only do they have to design something that appeals to most of the playerbase, they also have to make sure its something they enjoy making, which i get. The frustration is just something I've had to cope with when none of the actual content drops have appealed to me since RWYS. I keep tabs on the game but its helped to move on to other games and experiences until something does finally come around to pique my interest. All in all, be grateful the game receives any updates at all.

[kilobit]

4 hours ago, jantonio said:

Wilsons mad scientist is still missing shoes but we can wait if they fix that .

Maxwell got his winklepickers after many years. There is still hope

[QuQuasar]

5 hours ago, Superlucas1231 said:

"When is Shipwreck going to be ported, When is Hamlet going to be ported, Winona needs a refresh, wendy is OP and needs a nerf, Celestial portal is OP and needs to be nerfed, summer isn't fun, raid boss cheesing shouldn't exist, the animation doesn't look good, this game needs more survival content, when is forge going to come back, when is gorge going to come back, ocean content is boring,  people are griefing/abusing tools that are made to protect against griefing, etc."

Honestly, this list demonstrates why uncritically pandering to the community's wants would be awful. The only items here that I can agree wholeheartedly with would be bringing back Forge and Gorge as a server option, same as Events. And that's only because I never got to play them.

Everything else I could either make counter-arguments for, or would simply much prefer Klei work on other priorities.

[GetNerfedOn]

while normally im on the fence unless i really have to speak my mind, my sole poimt is that all these threads entitled to be a letter usually do not have a proper heading, addressee, salutation, or complimentary close and at least the last two got covered here /j

speaking of speaking my mind, though,

while there are points of concern to be had with the game, how its developing both in the short-term and the long, and how Klei's customer service works, not only has Klei proven to be listen to community feedback, they have also proven to be considerate of our many differences of opinion. Take JoeW's statement from the  previous (and notorious) letter to Klei thread. 

While indeed it may seem that they cannot cater to our every concern, nitpick, frustration or request, as far as I can observe they do have our best concerns at heart despite our differences.

[Jrramon_GOLD]

You realise this game takes alot of work for each update. Like bruh for every item they add to the game they have to make 20 character qoutes to each item. Imagine how much work that takes. Its the problem with dont starve. Not the developers

[GNGR bred boi]

Theres literally a huge QoL update coming soon wdym?

Also  w h a t  didn't Webber get like so much stuff that the community directly asked for, even after the initial rework they added more and more small perks the community asked for onto him? 

[GelatinousCube]

Not getting involved beyond listing this one example of something lots of people have been vocal about for a long time that hasn't changed and the wig rework.

Fireproof Falsetto is objectively bad, it is simply not worth using whatsoever. The entire community agrees and has for quite some time.

Also as far as the entire Wigfrid rework - PLENTY of players are fine with it but show me actual Wigfrid mains who like it because I doubt there will be many at all. We got shafted and I don't use songs at all anymore, they're useless and unnecessary especially mid to late game when the miniscule boost they provide is simply not needed. 

Now before I hear the usual "oh but wigfrid is already super strong and has enough going for her she didn't need anything new" - let's look at some of the newest characters/changes. Wormwood can now have a year round speed bonus, Walter has so many perks/items that many think he's too similar to modded characters and we just got Wanda who can literally teleport both herself and others around the map as much as she wants, hits like a truck when she's old, has her own soul hop (seriously what?), is better with shadow magic than anyone else (Maxwell should have this... Why does she have this?), can revive dead players with no negatives and more. Honestly she's a bit nuts and it seems like she is many players new instant favourite. Yes combat is tricky/different with her but apparently she can stunlock and can hit like an absolute truck.

There was an absolute plethora of suggestions on the forums for wig - new craftable weps, armor, viking boats, volt goat chariot, weapon racks, sharpening tools for weapons and so much more. So many of the suggestions were amazing. None of them made it and instead we got songs which yes fit her character and lore but are just not exciting whatsoever and are not useful enough. Honestly comparing it to other reworks she may as well have not had one.

To say klei don't listen or implement player feedback is simply not true and they do add certain features/changes that we request which is really cool to see but there are certainly times they have dropped the ball somewhat or haven't implemented heavily requested features.

Show me a console player who doesn't at least want the option to turn something similar to geometric placement off or on in a menu. Show me someone who genuinely thinks fireproof falsetto isn't complete garbage. Show me a Wig main who actually really liked her "rework". 

I too love this game and klei and the amazing job they do but they like anyone are not perfect and there are certainly some heavily suggested features that do not make it to the game.

Even just gorge/forge, I know they say it isn't financially feasible but it's content almost everyone wants back, most players never even got to experience either event and now never will (without mods obv). You'd think they'd find some other way/alternative to bring that content back, considering it's just unused assets/content at this point. I'm sure even if it was a priced DLC the majority would be interested.

[GNGR bred boi]

One thing I would like to however point out, Klei is doing the Wolfgang rework and still pushing off the Maxwell rework. While I think this is fine and Maxwell would still be getting his rework later on it's just kind of insulting for the poor guy to be somewhat less knowledgeable in shadow magic than Wanda is, despite an eternity on the Nightmare throne and being dubbed as the "Shadow king" or "Puppet master" I for one main Wolfgang from time to time, and it would be interesting lore wise to see what Klei has cooked up for him but man I really want to dig into a Maxwell change, both the characters are pretty outdated to today's standards, but at least Wolfgang's damage is still pretty relevant and I guess it kind of makes sense for Maxwell to be "outdated" considering how old he is lol. 

My closing thoughts: I think Klei is going to save Maxwell's rework for last, or somewhat last for lore purposes, which is understandable. Same goes for Wilson, as Wilson was technically the last person to enter the Constant in the original game. But who knows. 

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:wig rework.

.. Dont even get me started, WES’S Rework was better than hers- I used to Main Wigfrid secondary to Wendy.. “Used To” now she just feels Meh.. Meh to the point I would actually rather play Wes over her.

Woodie gets reworked, gets cool movement speed and combat abilities, Wigfrid gets reworked she gets maybe at most a song scroll that scares away enemies and a song scroll that makes her weapons durability last longer (literally the only two scrolls I ever bother using as her..)

Where is her cool Moose Woodie like charge into a crowd of enemies spear first like she is actually portrayed doing in the forge vignettes leaping into battle before even the Mighty Wolfgang as the FIRST to charge into battle?

Before I turn this into some TL:DR rant- Webber’s Rework comes along and he gets “Nurse Spiders” which you can actually carry as few as two of these around and smack one so they fight each other giving YOU and both nurse spiders near infinity amounts of no work required AoE healing.

Wigfrid went from being my 2nd most favorite character before the reworks started.. to being below Wes.. 
 

1-Wendy, 2- Willow, 3- Webber, 4- Wes and then Wigfrid comes in somewhere after that.

Shes just not exciting, unique or fun and she still plays roughly identically to how she did BEFORE her Rework which simply can’t be said for literally ANYONE else.. who actually got exciting new content.

But to be fair: Wigfrids Rework was done during a time of the world adjusting to a global Pandemic and probably also before the deal with Tencent to get more development funds for larger more exciting content updates.

And WEBBER & WES’S Reworks are a clear indication that they put more effort into them after the whole global/financial crisis stuff.

We can only hope they eventually tweak Wigfrid even if it’s just minimal at best- Remove the needing to craft a scroll to scare mobs away and instead put that on a Cooldown timer like Wanda’s ageless clock. Give her a charge into a crowd of enemies similar to Moose Woodie.

& Honestly I’d be happy with just those two changes.

[GelatinousCube]

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

she still plays roughly identically to how she did BEFORE her Rework which simply can’t be said for literally ANYONE else

You hit the nail on the head, exactly this. Every single rework but hers majorly changed up how each character plays and functions, wig is more or less exactly the same.

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But to be fair: Wigfrids Rework was done during a time of the world adjusting to a global Pandemic and probably also before the deal with Tencent to get more development funds for larger more exciting content updates.

I get this I do, but they could've delayed it or done a number of other things instead of just phoning it in. They could also give her a second smaller rework but I'm not holding my breath. 

[goblinball]

I know this wigfrid territory is kind of unrelated to the original post, but I personally think wigfrid’s refresh was great. Yeah, she could have gotten a major overhaul, but out of the entire DST cast she is one of the characters who needs an overhaul the least. While I don’t play wigfrid much anymore, she is my favorite character design-wise, as her downsides and perks incredibly synergize with eachother. Adding random, unnecessary gimmicks or unrelated craftable items to wigfrid would ruin her mindless yet delicately crafted simplicity and potentially cause bloat. I also believe that most of the songs are great and fit wigfrid, as her helmets and ability to tank already made her a combat character which excelled in multiplayer; it only makes sense to expand on this aspect of her. The healing song is extremely great, and can act as a replacement for healing food in most fights. Her sanity songs are incredibly nice to have for fights such as fuelweaver (both of these songs and the healing one also work on slurtles while they are in shells, making them basically “recharge stations” while in the caves). Her weapon durability song is great at saving resources too, however I prioritize her healing song in fights whenever I’m playing with friends. While I can agree that her fire song kinda sucks, and I wish her songs had more use outside of boss fights, I don’t understand why people claim wigfrid’s refresh is bad. I think klei did an excellent job (for the most part) with it, and I can’t wait to see what they’ll do in Wolfgang’s rework.

[sovon9]

I am not any important person or have huge knowledge about this but I will say they definitely listen some of the things , some of the things they also implemented . so directly saying they don't listen will be wrong but yes they definitely can acknowledge some of the things like some suggestion threads that "we heard you and we will discuss these" , This kind of statements will make the community happy that devs see's our thread or devs heard us. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

You hit the nail on the head, exactly this. Every single rework but hers majorly changed up how each character plays and functions, wig is more or less exactly the same.

People said 1000 times "pls dont rework wigfrid" "dont change wigfriiiid" hundred of topics every week about how perfect is wigfrid and how she doesnt need anychange (i guess that people were afraid of losing their free win character )

What klei did? Improving her coop perks and let her as she is

If you are a wigfrid main you should be happy that she didnt change

I play her time to time and i really like the songs and are very useful. You literally no need to farm sanity or health (even less i mean). Her play style is deeper but at the same time even simplier

I get that you were expecting something more noticeable but the refresh was correct 

5 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

There was an absolute plethora of suggestions on the forums for wig - new craftable weps, armor, viking boats, volt goat chariot, weapon racks,

Horrible suggestion taking in count that she was never a viking...

[Szczuku]

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

It's not that uncommon for me to see a red name react to a post

[FreyaMaluk]

tbh I think it would have been much more helpful to say specifically which things OP felt the devs aren't listening to.

In general like "you are not listening" is a bit too vast to even get a proper respond.
What are the specific suggestions you have for the devs??