What happened to RoT and dst's lore?

[Szczuku]

Hello, new thread... about somewhat old topic.

So the 'What happened to Mumsy and Billy?" thread got me thinking about the way Klei has been dealing with dst's lore. As well as RoT.

RoT was an interesting arc but handled so weirdly. It was made out of 8 updates (just because you took it back doesn't mean that RwyS is not part of RoT, Klei. The update trailer clearly says otherwise) and took 2 years to complete.

Was it a content chain centred around the lore? Only 3 updates had any lore in them: Turn of Tides, Forgotten Knowledge and Eye of the Storm. While I too like little fun facts such as 'There are species of humanoid crabs and crows in the Constant' I'm talking about big lore reveals this time, or at least something that pushes the story forward.

Was it centred around the ocean? Then why end it if the next update will add more ocean content? Seriously, try to tell me what makes Waterlogged less worthy of RoT than Salty Dog or Troubled Waters.

RoT begun out of nowhere, Klei could've easily connected Gorge's end with RoT's beggining. Here let me visualize this for you:

A cinematic akin to Axiom Visus or New Reign. We see Wilson, Wickerbottom and Wendy jump into the gateway along with Mumsy and Billy. Charlie is sucking up the energy from the Gateway and suddently pulls/rips away her hand from it. Survivors and Goats, flying through the classic black-and-white spiral, get redirected and return to the Constant (or just the survivors if you want to abandon Mumsy and Billy so much, Klei). Charlie sinks back into the Caverns' shadows as the camera returns to the surface and focuses on the Moon. (Close up) a single crack forms and emits a bit of light.

But they didn't do it, Klei didn't do anything, they just pretended that the Gateway arc never happened. That was before the pandemic and the Tencent, so that screw up is entirely on Klei.

Now, about RoT's end. In the Wes' refresh post Klei announced that they were getting ready to finish that update chain. I made a post to say that in the grand scheme of things RoT didn't fix any problems that dst had (except farming). Forumites told me that I was just being negative and that 2021 roadmap had 3 more content updates planned for the year and so Klei still had time to add a lot of meaningful stuff. But they didn't, EotS happened and abruptly ended RoT, leaving us with half-done moonstorm and lore cliffhanger.

Speaking of which. No offense Klei but the Mysterious Energy was the climax of RoT's lore and you shouldn't end on a culmination moment like that, at least give it a way to ease down somewhat.

Any ideas why that happened? What caused Klei to just end RoT like that?

Tl:dr

RoT ended seemningly out of nowhere and for no reason. 

Also, here's a graph of dst's lore throughout the years (take it with a grain of salt):

Spoiler

As you can see Klei tends to loose interest in an arc once its lore is already nicely developed

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Szczuku said:

RoT ended seemningly out of nowhere and for no reason. 

alter returned and wagstaff trap their champion energy. We wait to see what is next (?)

[Dextops]

warly was low on bones and he saw mumsy and billiam 

thats why we don't see them

[Maxposting]

Yeah, the arcs' endings are very anticlimactic

[lakhnish]

2 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

RoT ended seemningly out of nowhere and for no reason.

Through the updates, we got all three pieces of the Celestial Altars, which sent a Mysterious Energy across the constant and awakened Alter. Upon defeat of the Champion, Wagstaff captures the Mysterious Energy for who knows what.

While all this is happening, Charlie has captured the Ancient Fuelweaver and taken what's presumably the Mysterious Energy from the Ancient Gateway (ANR, but still relevant) and managed to get her hands on the Tragic Torch, which seems to be fueled by Gestalts/Mysterious Energy. We last see her at the Sealed Gateway, which she presumably is going to open (I guess with the Mysterious Energy she's taken along the way).

But I do get what you are saying, a lot of the updates weren't centered around Them but a good chunk had a focus on developing the ocean. 

Once RoT was declared to be over, the feeling I had was that although it was 2 years of development, it felt like development had just begun, possibly because of the split focus as well as all the character reworks/releases along the way.

I was most certainly confused at Wagstaff's appearance on the final update as well and I still don't fully understand how he's involved himself with the Mysterious Energy (I thought his focus was going to be more on nightmare fuel).

Whatever the case may be, hopefully it all leads to this bad boy and I really hope it's done well:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

I thought his focus was going to be more on nightmare fuel

i guess that studying the moon energy doesnt mean he isnt interested on NF anymore. Maybe both are useful for different things

also, if playing hamlet or rog as wagstaff is canon, he already found the uses of the nightmere fuel by using it to fight, revive his hologram (wagstaff lore isnt perfect or scientifically accurate...), etc

[ADM]

46 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Any ideas why that happened? What caused Klei to just end RoT like that?

It's clearly just impossible to tell unless we know how Klei wants to operate on arc of updates, how things will go, are already planned and such, it's the company secrets that usually leave us with a sit tight and wait for the good stuff.
(that's pretty much how it is after every update post or announcement)

But RoT wasn't too different of ANR (A New Reign) so we shouldn't be too surprised with a bit of hindsight : there was a given story axis that would keep going every 1:2 update or so with aside of that bunch of extra sweet content separated from the lore / story additions. Same happened with a as curious start and ending with its lot of seasonal events going. This time they only tied the moon things with ocean content.

So maybe next time this should be kept in mind when they announce a new story arc with a fancy name, also maybe Klei's definition of lore and satisfying amount of it is just too different of yours (and I don't want you to change it, but more expect the results).
I've personally learned a few things after this repetition of event and kinda imagine how next one will probably go and I will not have too much expectation of every word they write in the announcements, all I'll care mostly about is if the final content added will be as genuinely good to play as the latests arcs. (probably we'll get another fancy hat after 2 years, pog)

[mkemal23]

I feel like there is going to be season 2 of Rot. We still have a new puzzle that we dont know, an angry moon, a sus gateway image also the sealed portal. not the mention that Eye of the storm update was called season finale update.

[Capybara007]

I see a lot of people hace lots of expectations in dst's lore, but we can all agree that its a mess

Why did wilson had to build a portal when the other characters just got teleported by a radio

How did maxwell didnt know about the existance of the atrium, or the archives, he spent thousands of years in the throne

There isnt too much to expect for the lore aspect in this game

[Notecja]

8 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

How did maxwell didnt know about the existance of the atrium, or the archives, he spent thousands of years in the throne

I think he just forgot, in same way as he lost his height. New body, new mind and only few pieces of his soul, that were not eaten by nightmare throne.

Possibly most of his knowledge is left in nightmare throne, as it tortured him, as eaten his souls... 

Oh well, it's just artistic interpretation, and there is no real explaination. 

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

warly was low on bones and he saw mumsy and billiam 

thats why we don't see them

Answered the question on everyone's mind: Yes, the horns HAVE to be from volt goats to make volt goat chaud-froid. 

[Nettalie]

I personally don't mind only 3 of rot's updates adding lore that is directly "plot" relevant, it's not as though there was any relevance in anything other than the shadow pieces, the atrium and the ancient fuelweaver when it comes to the main story thread of anr.

However what I can agree on is that eye of the storm felt like it ended on a really anticlimactic cliffhanger note (not to mention that probably the most interesting part of that cliffhanger was as so often happens only within a cinematic/trailer).

Not just that but (though this is definitely a more subjective opinion) the way the lore was delivered to us, including the more "background" lore exclusive to quotes, felt incredibly random and vague, even moreso than lore usually is when it comes to dst. I'm definitely not one to say anr had perfect clean lore or is overall perfect, however at the very least most of its lore did tell us something, only excluding those details which leave a healthy amount of speculation and imagination.

Meanwhile rot's lore tells us the bare minimum we need to somewhat understand the throughline of the plot and slaps us in the face with plot details which, sure have been questions people had for a while, but are then answered in a way which many people inevitably get disappointed with, even though these details weren't even really essential for the storyline.

Don't get me wrong, getting answers to lore questions is always nice, if done in a way that respects the already existing lore without either coming of as or being a huge retcon. But exactly that is what for instance the archives feel like to me, most lore gathered from them feels incredibly retconned and like it doesn't really make sense with what was implied before (again, at least to me).

Mind you I am not trying to say dst's lore is super deep or particularly well thought out, it never really came across as that to me in the first place what with keeping half of it either super vague or out of the game itself if not both. But at the very least when we were told something it often times explained things a tiny bit and if it was vague that is because it either left room for speculation or was to be resolved in the future.

And that is simply not what I'm picking up from rot's lore, instead what I know is the moon entity is called Alter, thulecite comes from dust moths eating the world's driest pastry, the ancients once worshipped the moon until they didnt, maxwell made bishops, if not all clockwork, out of ancient watercoolers and left 90% of them to rot below ground (??) and crab king ghosted his girlfriend. Most of this is not directly relevant to the story but pretty explicitly told and except for pearl's lore just explains things we had no answers to in the most direct way with next to no room left for interpretation, while those details most relevant to the main lore thread are kept obscure with Wortox poking fun at us because he knows things we dont... Okay that last part is actually funny but come on Wortox

And then we have that portal in the archives which is just set up fir future lore reveals. Maybe. Who knows maybe it'll never be active again. Or maybe it will lead us to Terraria. Maybe.

 

[Cassielu]

I guess they're just like "OMG is taking too long to fill the oceans, ROT will never end, let's remove oceans content from ROT arc, finish story first." so they can quickly move on to the next arc.

 

About the lore update, I don't see that as a problem, as updating Arc serves to provide more game content after all. On ANR acr ,there only one, maybe two, of the eight updates are related to the main story. And character Rework offers a lot of long-awaited character backstory. So lore in these two years is not as bland as your image suggests.

About the gorge....It's a good thing they didn't make an anticlimactic adaptation for Gatekeeper story arc, right?

 

BUT, to me, Klei kept us guessing for years with "Them" and "Return of Them." I was really disappointed to end up telling us in EoS that it was just a storm, playing staring at you every night with Wheatley and a security robot boss throwing rocks at you. (also, no puzzle)

[Just-guy]

42 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

How did maxwell didnt know about the existance of the atrium, or the archives, he spent thousands of years in the throne

Maxwell mentions he used to have the knowledge the Throne granted but after his dethrone the knowledge must have been forgotten things.

In the Forgotten Knowledge he was surprised when they found the Archives and mentions he wondered where the Bishop crystal head came from.

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

(just because you took it back doesn't mean that RwyS is not part of RoT, Klei. The update trailer clearly says otherwise)

As Sun Tzu said, "No takesies backsies".

[Falkenpelz]

Yeah, the end felt really a bit anticlimatic. So much build-up, and when the Alter finally woke up, it was just "yep, I'm awake now, go back to work".

You know, what I personally REALLY wish for? More purpose/plotrelevance to the stagehand. The whole concept of a random perfect marble table in the middle of nowhere which makes everyone uneasy and later reveals to follow you in the dark is great. But why doesn't it do anything besides giving you a blueprint? Why is it never again included in any plotline?? This object screams "Charlie is here" so much, she could as well write her name on it and the name "stagehand" is super suggesting. A stagehand is an actor's assistant, just as Charlie was to Maxwell, and the way, it follows light, which most times leads to survivors, makes it almost seem, like it is obeserving them from the dark. So much potential, but it never gets any more attention and I'm afraid, it might just stay a blueprint dispensing jumpscare, despite being so nicely tied to potentially creepy plotlines...

[Mike23Ua]

Klei said Return of Thems ending was a season finale, not a Series finale- What that means for anyone who can’t tell the difference: Return of Them ended in a TBC (To Be Continued) It ended that way because Season 2 (most likely NOT named Return of Them) will Continue where it left off. That’s a “Season Finale”

a SERIES Finale is when the story is fully finished and there won’t ever be a TBC.

[Erineyes7]

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Why did Wilson had to build a portal when the other characters just got teleported by a radio

How did Maxwell didn't know about the existence of the atrium, or the archives, he spent thousands of years in the throne

Wilson Created Maxwell's Door because Maxwell wanted it, and couldn't make it himself (This isn't completely Concrete, but I think that's why) The whole point of it is to get Maxwell off the throne, or at least IMO

Considering how long Maxwell was on the throne, I can't blame him for not remembering the Archives(Or at least forgetting where they are)

 

I agree, I hate that the Plot just dropped off and we'll have no clue as to when we're gonna get more. I don't mind that most of the updates weren't new direct lore, but hey, at least Crab King was!(Kinda)

[minespatch]

The lore could use some duct tape. Have gorge taped up to Return of them with Mumsy finding some answers during her dimensional travels to other dimensions?

She could be like doctor who, just like Wanda.

[TemporarySolutn]

11 hours ago, Szczuku said:

 

  Hide contents

As you can see Klei tends to loose interest in an arc once its lore is already nicely developed

im annoyed by the fact that you think its over and the updates MUST be in chronological order, like just wait? they had events they couldnt reasonably upkeep and needed to add actual content? and the new character doesnt HAVE to be lore related at all, where is walter? why is ROT big spikes while forge and gorge are steady climbs, where is forge season 2?

 

you smell (dear moderators, this is a joke, i am good boy please dont hurt me)

[Just-guy]

14 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Also, here's a graph of dst's lore throughout the years (take it with a grain of salt):

  Hide contents

As you can see Klei tends to loose interest in an arc once its lore is already nicely developed

I know it sounds arrogant, but I find odd how you didn't count character refreshes as lore but did count Wanda's introduction.

[Fuffles]

Just saying; Everything and by that I dont only mean lore started going downhill after Gorge ended

[axxel]

17 hours ago, Dextops said:

warly was low on bones and he saw mumsy and billiam 

thats why we don't see them

You're a bad user! Mumsy is Warly's waifu and Billy will love his new father and this happy family will cure Maman's dementia (and absolutely not as a culinary), fo sho!

[SecretPizzaMan]

Sorry, but what is this mumsy and billy thread?

[Soumyadip543]

7 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Sorry, but what is this mumsy and billy thread?

I think he is talking about this thread I made