What happened to RoT and dst's lore?

[SecretPizzaMan]

36 minutes ago, Soumyadip543 said:

I think he is talking about this thread I made

Guys I think we need missing people's poster.

[minespatch]

11 hours ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Guys I think we need missing people's poster.

"Missing: People lost in the plot."

[NightfallsCurse]

Sometimes I also wonder what happened to the lore in DST, I really am stepping ahead and looking forward to that sealed portal.

C'mon, Klei, please? More lore??? 

[Szczuku]

On 10/4/2021 at 6:28 AM, Just-guy said:

I know it sounds arrogant, but I find odd how you didn't count character refreshes as lore but did count Wanda's introduction.

Sorry about the late answer, had a busy week and didn't want to leave you with a rushed one.

Reason number 1- I actually forgot about char refreshes

Reason number 2- Character cinematics generally don't push the lore forward. Webber was around since RoG and the fact that the cinematic featured Wagstaff doesn't really change anything. It's not happening in the present, it's just expanding the past. 

Wanda's cinematic on the other hand is in chronological order (as much as a break in the time-space can be, anyway). She sees Alter awake and other past events, no teasers for the future. With most dlc characters we can assume that they joined the survivors somewhere after dst begun and before Wanda. With Wanda it's implied that she joined the survivors after the events of RoT (unless Klei has stated otherwise).

Not to mention that Wanda basically confirmed the multiverse theory and now Klei can do anything they like with the lore. They can add monsters from Terraria and say they're canon because Wanda, time-space rifts and multiverse.

[Mike23Ua]

So uhm as I’ve mentioned before, I am a writer so it’s technically my job to try and find the lore points in stuff.

Character Reworks actually DO count as new Lore- Maybe not lore related to anything your hoping for:

But Lore all the same.

And as just three examples: Woodie who had been surviving on his own thinking he was Cursed in the original Dont Starve, Meets up with Wickerbottom when Wilson and Maxwell pull him through the Jury Rigged Portal, It is through Wickerbottom observations over his “Curse” that he discovers he has 3 different forms he can transform into & Wickerbottom even helps him figure out how to create some odd Totems that lets him FORCE those Mutations: Kinda like Hulk from Marvel.. What Bruce always see’s as a curse, can actually be made useful.

Then theres Wendy, Who’s In game lore can actually be tied to the Moon falling into the ocean, because Abigail gets stronger the darker it gets (thus the moon would be at its strongest) and While Abigails Petal buff was NOT directly explained in this way by Klei themselves: We also know that it only makes logical sense that the closer the moon gets to Wendy/Abigail: The more powerful she will be due to always having that increased damage at night.

Pipspook & Ectoherbology are another story though.. They confirm that other small children were abducted & killed in the constant, as per Maxwells Quotes for them, but While it’s not official lore: I’m going to assume that much like Woodies Totem Lore (which is official) that the great & wise Wickerbottom also helped Wendy learn potions to apply to her sisters ghost.

Even WEBBER could be tied to Return of Thems Lore: Because before RoT and his Rework- Shattered Spiders, Water Spiders, Nurse Spiders did not exist.. And he most certainly DID NOT know how to create cookies that he can feed a normal spider to turn it to a different type.. 

You can argue that part of the MOON crash landing into the Ocean is terraforming the Constant as we know it, giving Spider Queens nurses, adding a moon island with freaky shattered spiders, and even crashing into DSTs pre-RoT cardboard cut out sea making it flood into an actual sailable sea- and strange bizarre life forms have begun taking up habitation IN That Sea: Such as Seaweeds: Which are a living plant hybrid, and the Water Logged trees which quote “seem to sprout up from the ocean floor itself”

The TL:DR- these three character examples are advancing in power and abilities because the game is actually pushing the story forward as things happen in the constant & as they begin to learn new knowledge.

So yes.. the lore is there- It might not be in an animated TV Series short like your hoping for… but it’s there all the same.

[NightfallsCurse]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:54 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Klei said Return of Thems ending was a season finale, not a Series finale- What that means for anyone who can’t tell the difference: Return of Them ended in a TBC (To Be Continued) It ended that way because Season 2 (most likely NOT named Return of Them) will Continue where it left off. That’s a “Season Finale”

a SERIES Finale is when the story is fully finished and there won’t ever be a TBC.

I would've still been sad if I hadn't seen this

[fsp98]

On 10/3/2021 at 4:25 PM, mkemal23 said:

I feel like there is going to be season 2 of Rot. We still have a new puzzle that we dont know, an angry moon, a sus gateway image also the sealed portal. not the mention that Eye of the storm update was called season finale update.

Can you please elaborate? I must have missed a puzzle and the way you get to this gateway image. Just spent an hour looking for any relevant threads...

[rico0]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:59 AM, Capybara007 said:

I see a lot of people hace lots of expectations in dst's lore, but we can all agree that its a mess

Why did wilson had to build a portal when the other characters just got teleported by a radio

well now everyone can teleport at the same location
 

[Maxposting]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:45 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Woodie who had been surviving on his own thinking he was Cursed in the original Dont Starve, Meets up with Wickerbottom when Wilson and Maxwell pull him through the Jury Rigged Portal, It is through Wickerbottom observations over his “Curse” that he discovers he has 3 different forms he can transform into & Wickerbottom even helps him figure out how to create some odd Totems that lets him FORCE those Mutations: Kinda like Hulk from Marvel.. What Bruce always see’s as a curse, can actually be made useful.

What.
The literal lore is that woodie gets more cursed due to the moon, nothing else. You are talking about your headcanon.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

What.
The literal lore is that woodie gets more cursed due to the moon, nothing else. You are talking about your headcanon.

As the power of the moon has grown, so too have the effects of Woodie's curse. Woodie soon found that his form would shift into not only the Werebeaver, but a Weremoose and Weregoose as well. As his changing forms became more unpredictable, Woodie resolved to find a way to have more control over his curse. Using every bit of knowledge he'd gained from his time in the Constant (and some additional tips from Ms. Wickerbottom) he soon discovered that his transformations could in fact be controlled. By fashioning representations of each of the three beasts and consuming them only when he wanted to invoke that form, Woodie now feels more comfortable in his own skin than he has in quite a while.

this is from the compendium 

[Maxposting]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

As the power of the moon has grown, so too have the effects of Woodie's curse. Woodie soon found that his form would shift into not only the Werebeaver, but a Weremoose and Weregoose as well. As his changing forms became more unpredictable, Woodie resolved to find a way to have more control over his curse. Using every bit of knowledge he'd gained from his time in the Constant (and some additional tips from Ms. Wickerbottom) he soon discovered that his transformations could in fact be controlled. By fashioning representations of each of the three beasts and consuming them only when he wanted to invoke that form, Woodie now feels more comfortable in his own skin than he has in quite a while.

this is from the compendium 

I forgot to read the compendium entry, still though, solely saying that solely wicker just made him gain more forms is quite off.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, __IvoCZE__ said:

Oh okay, still though, solely saying that solely wicker just made him gain more forms is quite off.

oh yes, mike was so specific in things that arent confirmed to be canon. Maybe was the typical scenario of the dumb guy asking the nerd about "science" stuff

[Wendy C.]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:45 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Then theres Wendy, Who’s In game lore can actually be tied to the Moon falling into the ocean, because Abigail gets stronger the darker it gets (thus the moon would be at its strongest) and While Abigails Petal buff was NOT directly explained in this way by Klei themselves: We also know that it only makes logical sense that the closer the moon gets to Wendy/Abigail: The more powerful she will be due to always having that increased damage at night.

Abigail still has increased power during the night of the New Moon, when the moon is weakest. 
She also still has increased power in the caves, where the moon does not exist. 
Further, in the programming, she's not actually getting stronger during night time; her powers get weaker during daylight. 
 
If the moon was actually increasing her power, she would be indestructible on the Lunar Island itself or within the Moon Grotto. 

Abigail isn't connected to the moon. 

[goblinball]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:45 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Then theres Wendy, Who’s In game lore can actually be tied to the Moon falling into the ocean, because Abigail gets stronger the darker it gets (thus the moon would be at its strongest) and While Abigails Petal buff was NOT directly explained in this way by Klei themselves: We also know that it only makes logical sense that the closer the moon gets to Wendy/Abigail: The more powerful she will be due to always having that increased damage at night.

Idk if you’re aware of this but abigail’s flower costs nightmare fuel to make so it’s about as far away from alter as possible magic-wise

[mkemal23]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:21 PM, filipsperl said:

Can you please elaborate? I must have missed a puzzle 

Okay I looked through the forum posts, I think it wasn't confirmed by klei devs. It was just a topic talking about how there might be a new puzzle because eots came with good amount of lore. Sorry about just trowing stuff from my mind.

 

On 10/14/2021 at 9:21 PM, filipsperl said:

  the way you get to this gateway image. Just spent an hour looking for any relevant threads...

I don't remember very well but i think that gateway image was a sneak peek to what's coming to dst(the image was released even before rot).  Also sorry for late reply.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

Okay I looked through the forum posts, I think it wasn't confirmed by klei devs. It was just a topic talking about how there might be a new puzzle because eots came with good amount of lore. Sorry about just trowing stuff from my mind.

 

I don't remember very well but i think that gateway image was a sneak peek to what's coming to dst(the image was released even before rot).  Also sorry for late reply.

I didnt read the origial fount but i remember, i think when eye of the storm was announced, that some users shared screenshots from the Klei Discord where was shown a message from Joew talking about a new puzzle

[Mike23Ua]

20 hours ago, goblinball said:

Idk if you’re aware of this but abigail’s flower costs nightmare fuel to make so it’s about as far away from alter as possible magic-wise

Nightmare fuel? You mean that stuff you can get on a Full Moon Night by hammering down a pig or Merms head on a stick that has animated itself back to life during the full moon? Or what about putting an entire stack of this stuff inside a Chester and waiting for a full moon night?

The Full Moon Clearly has an effect on Nightmare Fuel.. which circles back to my point- Abigail is stronger because the moons powers are now closer.

Im pretty sure the reason she’s NOT indestructible on Lunar Island or Moon Grotto is for gameplay purposes.. But you guys get the idea.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

The Full Moon Clearly has an effect on Nightmare Fuel.. which circles back to my point- Abigail is stronger because the moons powers are now closer.

Such as trying to kill it and everything that has some on it

[Frashaw27]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The Full Moon Clearly has an effect on Nightmare Fuel.. which circles back to my point- Abigail is stronger because the moons powers are now closer.

Im pretty sure the reason she’s NOT indestructible on Lunar Island or Moon Grotto is for gameplay purposes.. But you guys get the idea.

Ah yes, the same Abigail that Wendy says starts to fade from her view when she wears the enlightened crown, a drop for a boss that is literally the closest thing to a moon ambassador we have.

I do think it's interesting how Wendy is the only one that is talking about things besides whatever knowledge or whispers are in there head, and it being a smoking gun that kills your theory. 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:27 PM, Szczuku said:

Reason number 2- Character cinematics generally don't push the lore forward. Webber was around since RoG and the fact that the cinematic featured Wagstaff doesn't really change anything. It's not happening in the present, it's just expanding the past. 

Well, expanding the past is kind of the definition of "lore".

Just paste "lore vs story" into google and the results will be something along the lines of:

Quote

Particularly in role playing games or any game that takes place in a made up universe, the lore typically refers more to the backstory/history of either your character or the game world, while the story refers more to the current events of the game and the various exploits your character undergoes.

 

[Wendy C.]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Nightmare fuel? You mean that stuff you can get on a Full Moon Night by hammering down a pig or Merms head on a stick that has animated itself back to life during the full moon? Or what about putting an entire stack of this stuff inside a Chester and waiting for a full moon night?

The Full Moon Clearly has an effect on Nightmare Fuel.. which circles back to my point- Abigail is stronger because the moons powers are now closer.

Im pretty sure the reason she’s NOT indestructible on Lunar Island or Moon Grotto is for gameplay purposes.. But you guys get the idea.

From everything we've seen in current updates, the Moon is actively hostile against (and extremely violent towards) anything even *remotely* connected to nightmare fuel. Nightmare Pig Heads and Shadow Chester are remnants of old gameplay mechanics made many years ago by entirely different story writers making an entirely different story. It's clearly not inherently relevant any more. 
Nightmare Fuel is essentially the ***opposite*** of the moon; they cannot possibly be any more different than they are. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

From everything we've seen in current updates, the Moon is actively hostile against (and extremely violent towards) anything even *remotely* connected to nightmare fuel. Nightmare Pig Heads and Shadow Chester are remnants of old gameplay mechanics made many years ago by entirely different story writers making an entirely different story. It's clearly not inherently relevant any more. 
Nightmare Fuel is essentially the ***opposite*** of the moon; they cannot possibly be any more different than they are. 

klei should think a way to give sense to that old mechanic or change them. They already did it with the mushrooms and flowers becoming evil flowers

Or maybe nightmere fuel and moon magic are 2 forces that can be mixed to obtain effects, no there is nothing in the lore saying that filling chester with nightmere fuel and exposing him to Alter wont mutate him. Perhaps Wagstaff could be experimenting with the moon magic after realising the potential of mixing it with NM when he was studying the ancient magic

[MondayNight]

I for one would really like if current DST writer would "take a good look" at past DS lore, play DS in enough capacity to see a bit more "behind the curtain" - or at least original intended "curtain" - and come up with staff that's not conflicting or retconning in a poor/unsatisfactory way. Is kinda expected each one of us to have their own "head canon" for a given character/context, but for sake of continuity and good storytelling said author should be more consistent. I get "subverting the expectations" may be the thing now with mainstream media, but almost always that equates for consumers to "unsatisfactory" and/or "lame". For example original DS had a heavy Chess theme, with ultimately implied Moon and Shadows trying a checkmate on each other. Nowadays seems only Shadow Entity and Max try chess (general theme), while Alter and Charlie go full-blown checkers or backgammon (again, thematically, via their minions/mechanics - see Shadow Pieces vs Moon Adventure quests). No, is not "new and never-before-seen brave approach" of "breaking the ceiling" - is just subpar and silly to say the least. Yes, as variety is fun, but in story context is just... strange.

[DaZoul]

22 hours ago, Wendy C. said:

It's clearly not inherently relevant any more.

Precisely. I wish more people understood that Klei didn't have a giant moon eye in plans for 370 years

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

Precisely. I wish more people understood that Klei didn't have a giant moon eye in plans for 370 years

Even if they didn’t have that “planned” there shouldn’t be content in the game that continues to contradict the new lore.

It just becomes a confusing jumbled mess, Moon Magic has done freaky things in the constant for forever- such as animating heads on sticks to life, increasing abigails strength, turning a nightmare fuel filled Chester into a Chester capable of holding more stuff, mutating Pigmen into Werepigs, bringing the dead out of their graves to roam around once more, and in solo DS, making tiny mushrooms blossom into full grown mushroom tree’s.

With Return of Them: Moon Magic mutates spiders, reanimates to life: Dead hounds & penguins, mutates Wobsters, magically creates an underground “Moon Grotto”

I mean- the way actual content in the game works, contradicts ANY Animated short lore Klei is trying to provide.

Hopefully with whatever’s next- they’ll clear this confusion up and explain what the heck Wagstaff & Charlie are actually up to.