The difference between Casual & Veteran.

[Mike23Ua]

First off as a quick disclaimer: I’m not creating this thread to start wide spread chaos and global warfare amongst Klei’s forums, this thread along with most other threads like this is a matter of pure OPINION, and not everyone is going to agree with each other’s opinions. I ask that you remember this and don’t start personal insults on another player or their capabilities with the game within this or really any other thread if I’m being honest.

I have noticed a literal hot debate lately over Dragonfly as a boss, is it hard enough? Is it too hard? Is it’s loot even worth going after?

All of these are questions that don’t really have a straightforward answer because no one opinion is right or wrong.

For some people dragonfly is a huge health sponge of a tedious fight, for others.. they build walls to take half of the unique aspects of the fight completely out of the equation.

Is either side of view right or wrong? Of course not.. But I want to use this post as a way to convey my own personal feelings on casual & veteran status.

First off let’s set the record straight: the difference between Casual and Veteran Status is a matter of pure self-centered Ego, nothing more.. nothing less- I can proclaim all day that I am a veteran at X, X or Y.. but that doesn’t mean I’m also not a filthy casual when it comes to other areas of the game like Z, Z & B. (If you don’t understand this forget it.. your not meant to understand it.)

For me, I claim myself to be a Veteran at staying alive under any conditions and as any character possible- But when it comes to fighting bosses: I’m a complete and total casual noob at it.

This is important to what I’m about to bring up: For me the challenge of the game IS and Always will be just staying Alive, and I even apply a ton of wacky rules to my worlds that increase my enjoyment of this particular aspect of the game, for me joining a server that is in Mid-WINTER as WANDA and me trying to scrambling to fight against my own aging clock while trying to not freeze to death.. that has been a ton of fun for me.. doing so by just the skin of my teeth with as little as rabbit earmuffs and additional earmuffs you may need to create till you can build yourself up to get better winter gear.

what I don’t find enjoyable at all about this game however is being presented with a challenge and then at the exact same time being given a permanent solution to that challenge, for example: Eyebrella will trivialize the entire spring seasons weather hazards.

So what is Dragonfly? Well it’s a boss.. but what does she Do? She gives players who struggle to stay alive in Winter a permanent solution to staying alive in Winter, in the form of the Dragon Scale Furnace- Which not only provides intense heat when near it (allowing your thermal stones to never lose any durability) but it also gives off light, trivializing both Winter and Nightfall.

Remember earlier when I proclaimed myself a veteran at staying alive by any means necessary with as little as rabbit earmuffs and a careful use of resources? 
Dragonfly drops a craft that makes staying alive significantly easier (a problem that persists through most every boss actually)

So if your a self proclaimed veteran at just staying alive with as little resources as you need.. something like this won’t EVER appeal towards you.. right?

But you know who it WILL appeal to? The casuals, the Base Builders, & the people who actively seek out those crafts that trivialize just staying alive.

So then I must ask why Dragonfly is as controversial of a topic as she is? We KNOW what she is, we KNOW what so called “valuable loots” she drops, and we know that loot is only relevant to people who want permanent solutions to problems the game throws at them.

So then why are those crafts locked behind such a highly unnecessarily difficult fight for casuals who struggle fighting it? 

And why can’t people just straight up accept that this fight should be allowed to be as easy or as hard as players feel like dealing with it?

Maybe I want to enjoy the unique mechanics of this fight.. but I don’t really need any of the loot that is obtained from it? And Maybe I don’t want to spend hours crafting and building walls to make this fight manageable for me to enjoy it alone without needing to swap to Wolfgang and Chug Warly food dishes?

Which brings up the horrible question of does the character you pick to play determine your casual or veteran status?

Again it is all going to boil down to the differences within your own self ego of ill-informed opinions on what qualifies one as a Casual or Veteran.

Not everyone is going to agree that this or that should become easier or become any harder.. but we can ALL Acknowledge is that Klei has been taking heavy notice of it.

By giving us ways to fully customize our worlds to be as easy or as hard as we personally feel like playing it at the time.

Dont like Shadow monsters at all? Well Congratulations now they can be toggled completely off.. Crazy like Me and want the one weakness Wendy actually has to be a serious threat towards her? Toggle them to TONS.

Casual & Veteran status are illusions: The only true difference between what makes someone a casual or veteran should be how long they’ve played the game, not what they have learned while playing.. but rather how long they’ve been playing for- Someone could’ve played this game since 2013 and someone else could’ve started 5 minutes ago and know more then them- but then even that raises the question of who is the casual and who is the veteran?

The so called casual player (the one with less than 10 minutes play time) has more knowledge about the game then the so called Veteran who has played since 2013- But who actually has the right to call themselves the casual or the veteran here?

Is it the player who’s veteran status is only calculated by the time they’ve spent playing the game? Or is it the player who’s veteran status is determined by how much knowledge of the game they know and how all its mechanics work but has only played 5 minutes & read through the entire Wiki?

It makes me sick to see so many arguments and complaints over this game that EVERYONE (casual or veteran) should be able to thoroughly enjoy.

And your not going to always like each other’s opinions, you will often be at odds against one other because you simply can’t see the other sides way of thinking..

But luckily Klei does not design content based entirely on casuals or veterans- because if they did… we would have a game that caters to one group that’s almost completely, (if not even ENTIRELY) disliked by the other group.

I will admit it: I hate a lot of the casual changes Klei has been making to DST, And I really really wish they would re-introduce some of the harder gameplay mechanics & features that were present in their Single Player DLCs such as Poison Bleed effect, (not just on Wanda..) enemies spawning from random things you pluck, chop or open, having Entire Biomes need special gear to travel through (like gas biome in Hamlet) etc… 

I also feel like having the Mini-Map and Inventory PAUSE the Game is such a highly noob feature.. and I only complained about that because I was heavily WORRIED it wouldn’t be a completely optional feature. But now that I have seen that I can disable it: I can careless who uses this feature because I KNOW I won’t ever be using it.

Maybe it’s there for the Mega base builders who want to turn off all survival aspects of the game and just build a huge pretty base?

Maybe it’s there for the casuals who don’t enjoy the added pressure of fumbling through their inventory while things are still trying to tear their face off?

Whatever it’s there for… As long as there is an option to disable it so I can continue to enjoy the way it works now- I can care less.

THAT is the difference between Casual & Veteran status.. there is no Difference as long as both sides are treated fairly with favoritism not swaying in neither direction, like a perfectly balanced pendulum of back & forth.

Be polite & reasonable in response, or not respond at all.

you guys really REALLY need to start opening up your minds, and more importantly your hearts to see & understand all the different sides of the puzzle: it is only when the outside is fully formed: that the bigger pieces in the center can come together to create the perfect picture.

Make peace, not 50 page arguments & complaints.

[Cheggf]

Casual and "veteran" aren't even related. Somebody who's been playing casually since the Chrome builds would be a casual veteran, while somebody taking the game really seriously and trying hard but got the game recently would be neither.

[Capybara007]

What was the point of this thread

[JoeW]

Keep responses constructive and on topic. Thanks

[Bernado1]

I always felt like DST was a game about anticipation and preparation, look at games like TF2, it’s about protecting/attacking an objective with a coordinated team, D2 is about leveling up and doing the hardest missions and raids, TLD is about surviving the longest that you can with everything against you.

The thing is, even games like TLD, that are survival related, DST has a MUCH MUCH wider audience, people that play just for fun with friends, people that can solo every boss with WES, people that like to build giant megabases, people that try their best on custom worlds/speed runs, and also a lot of griefers, etc.

And in every single one of these groups, there are noobs, new players, normal players, veteran players and godlike entitys, because of this, I think it’s quite hard to make some kind of mechanic or boss that the vast majority of players will like if they need to stop what they are doing, learn how to fight the boss, bring equipment and try their luck, it’s understandable that a wall made of stones and some bunny man may be the best strat since you don’t need to learn or push yourself hard enough in a videogame.
I agree with you 100% that itens dropped from DF like rare gems and her scales should not be as easy to get as “just build some walls and get bunnies lol”, but sadly, a great portion of players will do that, because a lot of preparation can quite literally break the game (and it’s easier).

Winona stacking catapults, 100 bunnymans houses, Enough ice staffs and weather pains to cheese Toadstool, boat strat with shadow pieces, and the list goes on.

To this day I think the Fuelweaver is the best boss in the game, his mechanics, his appearance, you’ll need to fight in HIS territory to win (which is very limited), there’s little room for cheesing and his loot is very good.

Spoiler

Just a quick reminder, I’m not saying that cheesing or preparing too much it’s the wrong way, I do that too, the game’s yours, you do whatever you want with it, There’s is absolute no wrong way of playing if you and your friends are having fun.

 

[KeshS]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

THAT is the difference between Casual & Veteran status.. there is no Difference

There is a difference. One playmode is how a player decides to play it, the other how the game decides for the player to play.

Loving megabases doesn't automatically mean this player is a casual, just more likely to enjoy casual play than strict gameplay.

46 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The so called casual player (the one with less than 10 minutes play time) has more knowledge about the game then the so called Veteran who has played since 2013- But who actually has the right to call themselves the casual or the veteran here?

Can a person that went into water for 10 minutes, swim by just reading a book about all swimming techniques? [NO] Can that person beat another person that swam for a long time with just one swimming style? [NO]

Don't starve isn't a Knowledge Ball competition where the most wikipedia read player wins. Your playstyle changes the more you play this game be it even as casual as possible. Unfortunately the ones that fail to learn are those that frequently use rollbacks or using a console to get x item they can't get because lack of skill.

[minespatch]

17 minutes ago, KeshS said:

Don't starve isn't a Knowledge Ball competition

Rng also can curse a veteran's favor.

[Maxposting]

18 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

you guys really REALLY need to start opening up your minds, and more importantly your hearts to see & understand all the different sides of the puzzle: it is only when the outside is fully formed: that the bigger pieces in the center can come together to create the perfect picture.

Don't wanna be rude but this is quite hypocritical coming from you specifically.

[Dextops]

uhhhh tldr please and thank you

[Frosty_Mentos]

I'm a proclaimed Willow main.
Which means clearly I'm better than you.
That is all.
...
... 
Alright, another thing. Some people have pretty high ego on the game like 'has to be played' and 'how the game was supposed to be' thing that apparently 'affects the balance in my eyes so this (examples: Wolfgang, goat jelly, fun in playing the game) shouldn't exist cause I hate them" sometimes has the highest tone of voice within the forums to cause an all-out war just to try and prove their points. 

I had an argument with a friend earlier to my and their points of views on how the game is and how things 'supposed to be' or something idk. All I got is that they really wanna tryhard and anything that exists in the game that doesn't seem right in their viewpoint should not be in there. Mentally I don't know why I'm on that topic cause I really don't care and I just wanna play the game in whatever way I wanna play like Mike said, I been enjoying powerful and interesting characters with whom I can solo bosses to gather faster to do my base building and yet they question 'why not just spawn in? ya being so darn cAsUaL by playing that character' and I'm like mentally 'stop please' with lengthy response of why I do these things and why most people do it ya-da ya-da-- 
The forums are basically a place of ranting and headaches similar to same discussions with that friend. I said respectfully that the game has the options to change things and you have the OPTIONS to do and not do something if you desire. 
Klei's not there to make someone's hardcore desires to come true - they're there to make a fun game for majority of people and sometimes add options to hardcore players to do things differently and have better customizations of their game.

This is actually kind of a rant cause I felt frustrated when I didn't want to with that friend on those kinds of topics but to similarity I try to not take things as seriously in the forums anymore as before. To brainstorm? Yea, but am not active enough to care if noone cares.
... 
Mike I think you made a rant thread.

Just now, Dextops said:

uhhhh tldr please and thank you

It's a tall rant about forums being forums and people biting their throats out cause everyone's full of something either ego or manure about being super-pro or super-nobrainer. Super-pros or super-nobrainers being those who use what tactic to play the game in a way they want to play it, one way being that 'ooga booga wolfgang too strong, ur too casual' and other 'ooga booga you can't just be cheesing bosses with catapults flingos and gunpowder' idfk
ooga booga

[Maxil20]

52 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

First off as a quick disclaimer: I’m not creating this thread to start wide spread chaos and global warfare amongst Klei’s forums, this thread along with most other threads like this is a matter of pure OPINION, and not everyone is going to agree with each other’s opinions. I ask that you remember this and don’t start personal insults on another player or their capabilities with the game within this or really any other thread if I’m being honest.

I respect this, and I do try to respect your opinions as well. While I certainty have disagreed with you (and many others) in the past, I don't wish to actively hurt someone because of their own opinion. I just mainly like to share my viewpoints on something and discuss a bit, as this is a Forum, after all : P
 

55 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

First off let’s set the record straight: the difference between Casual and Veteran Status is a matter of pure self-centered Ego, nothing more.. nothing less- I can proclaim all day that I am a veteran at X, X or Y.. but that doesn’t mean I’m also not a filthy casual when it comes to other areas of the game like Z, Z & B. (If you don’t understand this forget it.. your not meant to understand it.)

I personally just consider someone a veteran if they have had the game for 2+ years and played a good amount of it. At that point, you probably have seen some substantial changes occur in the game and you can judge the "new" changes compared to the "old" ones. Otherwise, I usually just see 3 parties: The casual audience (as you described), a Professional audience that strives to accomplish new feats or make the game harder, and a third one for Creative people (as a decent chunk of people are Megabasers). I see myself as both Casual/Creative; I'm fine with how skilled I am now, and I personally really like doing silly things like going overkill on builds when it is entirely unneeded.
 

59 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is important to what I’m about to bring up: For me the challenge of the game IS and Always will be just staying Alive, and I even apply a ton of wacky rules to my worlds that increase my enjoyment of this particular aspect of the game, for me joining a server that is in Mid-WINTER as WANDA and me trying to scrambling to fight against my own aging clock while trying to not freeze to death.. that has been a ton of fun for me.. doing so by just the skin of my teeth with as little as rabbit earmuffs and additional earmuffs you may need to create till you can build yourself up to get better winter gear.

This is certainty where having an opinion can shift the tone. For me, the challenge of the game comes from getting a base up and sustaining. Before that, you usually need to manage your time and resources carefully as your base will be lacking in particular aspects until you get them setup. Once you do have that setup the "main" gameplay becomes much easier, but you still have challenges in choosing what food source you wish to use, what clothing/armor you bring with you, your preferred weapon, occasional Hound/Worm and Giant attacks, etc. There's also the optional bosses which can also be a considerable challenge to take down, especially bosses like DFly, Toadstool, or Champion/Weaver.
 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

what I don’t find enjoyable at all about this game however is being presented with a challenge and then at the exact same time being given a permanent solution to that challenge, for example: Eyebrella will trivialize the entire spring seasons weather hazards.

The eyebrella is an oddball example as it's one of the few items that does it's function really well (Making Spring and Summer substantially easier) and you can get really early (in solo, especially). I do personally like that, though. After awhile, you get to a point where dealing with seasonal issues should be a secondary concern, rather then a primary one. The eyebrella allows you to shift focus away from spring and summer, but you still need to keep the eyebrella on you and do a little bit of managing to deal with the seasons. It's a lot more noticeable in worlds with multiple people where it can take awhile to get everyone an eyebrella, so people combat spring in summer with other means (I personally am a big fan of using the rain hat for spring, and while it isn't something I've done much the fashion melon seems to be fairly good for summer)
 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

So what is Dragonfly? Well it’s a boss.. but what does she Do? She gives players who struggle to stay alive in Winter a permanent solution to staying alive in Winter, in the form of the Dragon Scale Furnace- Which not only provides intense heat when near it (allowing your thermal stones to never lose any durability) but it also gives off light, trivializing both Winter and Nightfall.

Remember earlier when I proclaimed myself a veteran at staying alive by any means necessary with as little as rabbit earmuffs and a careful use of resources? 
Dragonfly drops a craft that makes staying alive significantly easier (a problem that persists through most every boss actually)

So if your a self proclaimed veteran at just staying alive with as little resources as you need.. something like this won’t EVER appeal towards you.. right?

But you know who it WILL appeal to? The casuals, the Base Builders, & the people who actively seek out those crafts that trivialize just staying alive.

The thing is though, players who are skilled can get by with items like the rabbit earmuffs, but they also won't deter from getting upgrades in that regard. The scaled furnace both helps cut down on resources used for heating up, while also allowing you to cook food whenever you need. It's focus is a lot more suited for casuals/builders, but skilled players can also get a considerable amount of value on the furnace as well.

Also, DFly still has a perk of dropping every non opal gem on death, and those are incredibly valuable to anyone. The ruins only have so many of each gem, and resetting the ruins can take awhile to properly setup. DFly giving 1-2 of green/yellow/orange means you can always make a few of the more valuable ruins items, especially the star caller staff and construction amulet.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

So then why are those crafts locked behind such a highly unnecessarily difficult fight for casuals who struggle fighting it? 

The way I see it is that while casuals might want the furnace, it's not required for survival. Casuals can easily get by with campfires/firepits/burning whatever to stay alive during the winter, and those methods are fairly practical early on. Eventually they will likely scramble enough gear to go and tackle DFly for the furnace after a few hundred days or so, which will still substantially cut down on resources need to heat up and/or cook food.
 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe I want to enjoy the unique mechanics of this fight.. but I don’t really need any of the loot that is obtained from it?

You can say this for a lot of bosses. I personally find the toadstool fight unique in terms of it's concept (an endurance boss that makes you want to stockpile a lot of weapons/armor to beat it), but I don't need any of it's loot after I killed it's harder form, misery toadstool.
 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Which brings up the horrible question of does the character you pick to play determine your casual or veteran status?

I consider it based on if said person is using the character's perks as a crutch or not. A good example to test this is see how they do playing Wilson. Wilson has absolutely nothing going for him other then his beard, and I like him for that. He tests your own skill, not how powerful a character's perks are. If you can survive and beat bosses as Wilson, chances are you can do that with 80% of the character roster.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Not everyone is going to agree that this or that should become easier or become any harder.. but we can ALL Acknowledge is that Klei has been taking heavy notice of it.

By giving us ways to fully customize our worlds to be as easy or as hard as we personally feel like playing it at the time.

I can see where you are coming from this. I personally turned off wildfires/lureplants in my world as I find them more of a harassment then a genuine challenge, and while I do wish there were methods to combat them in game (like an item to summon rain), I do respect being able to turn them off on a whim and turn them back on when new options become available to counter them.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I will admit it: I hate a lot of the casual changes Klei has been making to DST, And I really really wish they would re-introduce some of the harder gameplay mechanics & features that were present in their Single Player DLCs such as Poison Bleed effect, (not just on Wanda..) enemies spawning from random things you pluck, chop or open, having Entire Biomes need special gear to travel through (like gas biome in Hamlet) etc…

A lot of this comes from how DS is designed. ROG has absolutely none of what you described, but it's still an incredibly popular DLC for basically standardizing how "normal" DS/T was for the future. SW/HAM are able to be unique because you go to entirely different worlds, where the challenge of game can be considerably different from what is was in ROG.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also feel like having the Mini-Map and Inventory PAUSE the Game is such a highly noob feature.. and I only complained about that because I was heavily WORRIED it wouldn’t be a completely optional feature.

I'm a bit shocked you don't like the change to pausing the game while accessing the inventory. One thing I always had issue with on console is due to how you need to sort through an inventory. PC organizing is far easier and less time consuming then trying to organize an inventory on a controller layout. It's especially noticeable for boss fights where you really can't afford 5-10 seconds of downtime to rearrange your hotbar as it got scrambled up during the fight.

The map thing also is indirectly worse on console. On PC, you can move while the map is ocean if you click where you want to go and then open the map while you are moving to that destination, which is incredibly helpful. On console, you only move for like .1-.2 seconds after you bring up the map. Autopausing on the map screen helps save time that you would otherwise lose.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe it’s there for the Mega base builders who want to turn off all survival aspects of the game and just build a huge pretty base?

I actually don't like autopause (mainly because it freezes on the map, and as mentioned PC can actually work around that normally), and I usually just use the Pause toggle if I need to take a small break to drink some water or the like and not need to either log out of the server and take 1-2 minutes to boot it back up or keep it up and risk getting a surprise hound attack. That, or sharing images and the likes with some friends.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Whatever it’s there for… As long as there is an option to disable it so I can continue to enjoy the way it works now- I can care less.

I agree with this. A lot of people have been asking for a natural geometric placement toggle in the game, and I personally don't like geometric placement at all, as it just leads to farms/builds looking same-y. It being a toggle is something I would certainty get behind, though.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

you guys really REALLY need to start opening up your minds, and more importantly your hearts to see & understand all the different sides of the puzzle: it is only when the outside is fully formed: that the bigger pieces in the center can come together to create the perfect picture.

Do keep in mind that I also hope you take into account this as well. I understand not having a PC can make stuff considerably more difficult, but a lot of people on these forums will use different platforms and will have different experiences/problems. I personally used to play a lot of DST on the PS4 before getting a PC, and doing so allowed me to realize the similarities and differences both can have just from their controls alone while also being able to use mods to tweak specific things in the game I personally don't enjoy when I absolutely couldn't before, such as the insanity sounds.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Make peace, not 50 page arguments & complaints.

We will see, you never know what could happen on the forums!

[Frosty_Mentos]

Just now, Maxil20 said:

We will see, you never know what could happen on the forums!

We only offer pain here. No milk.

[Seero]

42 minutes ago, KeshS said:

Can a person that went into water for 10 minutes, swim by just reading a book about all swimming techniques? [NO] Can that person beat another person that swam for a long time with just one swimming style? [NO]

 

Can a person actually spend their valuable time by explaining to a person who thinks people can learn how to swim in 10 minutes and master it that it's not so simple? 

Yes, it's called poe's law

[Terra B Welch]

I refuse to call myself a veteran whatsoever, I'm just someone who wants to play the game and have fun in whatever ways I can think of.

[Nettalie]

  

9 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Spoiler

 

I respect this, and I do try to respect your opinions as well. While I certainty have disagreed with you (and many others) in the past, I don't wish to actively hurt someone because of their own opinion. I just mainly like to share my viewpoints on something and discuss a bit, as this is a Forum, after all : P
 

I personally just consider someone a veteran if they have had the game for 2+ years and played a good amount of it. At that point, you probably have seen some substantial changes occur in the game and you can judge the "new" changes compared to the "old" ones. Otherwise, I usually just see 3 parties: The casual audience (as you described), a Professional audience that strives to accomplish new feats or make the game harder, and a third one for Creative people (as a decent chunk of people are Megabasers). I see myself as both Casual/Creative; I'm fine with how skilled I am now, and I personally really like doing silly things like going overkill on builds when it is entirely unneeded.
 

This is certainty where having an opinion can shift the tone. For me, the challenge of the game comes from getting a base up and sustaining. Before that, you usually need to manage your time and resources carefully as your base will be lacking in particular aspects until you get them setup. Once you do have that setup the "main" gameplay becomes much easier, but you still have challenges in choosing what food source you wish to use, what clothing/armor you bring with you, your preferred weapon, occasional Hound/Worm and Giant attacks, etc. There's also the optional bosses which can also be a considerable challenge to take down, especially bosses like DFly, Toadstool, or Champion/Weaver.
 

The eyebrella is an oddball example as it's one of the few items that does it's function really well (Making Spring and Summer substantially easier) and you can get really early (in solo, especially). I do personally like that, though. After awhile, you get to a point where dealing with seasonal issues should be a secondary concern, rather then a primary one. The eyebrella allows you to shift focus away from spring and summer, but you still need to keep the eyebrella on you and do a little bit of managing to deal with the seasons. It's a lot more noticeable in worlds with multiple people where it can take awhile to get everyone an eyebrella, so people combat spring in summer with other means (I personally am a big fan of using the rain hat for spring, and while it isn't something I've done much the fashion melon seems to be fairly good for summer)
 

The thing is though, players who are skilled can get by with items like the rabbit earmuffs, but they also won't deter from getting upgrades in that regard. The scaled furnace both helps cut down on resources used for heating up, while also allowing you to cook food whenever you need. It's focus is a lot more suited for casuals/builders, but skilled players can also get a considerable amount of value on the furnace as well.

Also, DFly still has a perk of dropping every non opal gem on death, and those are incredibly valuable to anyone. The ruins only have so many of each gem, and resetting the ruins can take awhile to properly setup. DFly giving 1-2 of green/yellow/orange means you can always make a few of the more valuable ruins items, especially the star caller staff and construction amulet.

The way I see it is that while casuals might want the furnace, it's not required for survival. Casuals can easily get by with campfires/firepits/burning whatever to stay alive during the winter, and those methods are fairly practical early on. Eventually they will likely scramble enough gear to go and tackle DFly for the furnace after a few hundred days or so, which will still substantially cut down on resources need to heat up and/or cook food.
 

You can say this for a lot of bosses. I personally find the toadstool fight unique in terms of it's concept (an endurance boss that makes you want to stockpile a lot of weapons/armor to beat it), but I don't need any of it's loot after I killed it's harder form, misery toadstool.
 

I consider it based on if said person is using the character's perks as a crutch or not. A good example to test this is see how they do playing Wilson. Wilson has absolutely nothing going for him other then his beard, and I like him for that. He tests your own skill, not how powerful a character's perks are. If you can survive and beat bosses as Wilson, chances are you can do that with 80% of the character roster.

I can see where you are coming from this. I personally turned off wildfires/lureplants in my world as I find them more of a harassment then a genuine challenge, and while I do wish there were methods to combat them in game (like an item to summon rain), I do respect being able to turn them off on a whim and turn them back on when new options become available to counter them.

A lot of this comes from how DS is designed. ROG has absolutely none of what you described, but it's still an incredibly popular DLC for basically standardizing how "normal" DS/T was for the future. SW/HAM are able to be unique because you go to entirely different worlds, where the challenge of game can be considerably different from what is was in ROG.

I'm a bit shocked you don't like the change to pausing the game while accessing the inventory. One thing I always had issue with on console is due to how you need to sort through an inventory. PC organizing is far easier and less time consuming then trying to organize an inventory on a controller layout. It's especially noticeable for boss fights where you really can't afford 5-10 seconds of downtime to rearrange your hotbar as it got scrambled up during the fight.

The map thing also is indirectly worse on console. On PC, you can move while the map is ocean if you click where you want to go and then open the map while you are moving to that destination, which is incredibly helpful. On console, you only move for like .1-.2 seconds after you bring up the map. Autopausing on the map screen helps save time that you would otherwise lose.

I actually don't like autopause (mainly because it freezes on the map, and as mentioned PC can actually work around that normally), and I usually just use the Pause toggle if I need to take a small break to drink some water or the like and not need to either log out of the server and take 1-2 minutes to boot it back up or keep it up and risk getting a surprise hound attack. That, or sharing images and the likes with some friends.

I agree with this. A lot of people have been asking for a natural geometric placement toggle in the game, and I personally don't like geometric placement at all, as it just leads to farms/builds looking same-y. It being a toggle is something I would certainty get behind, though.

Do keep in mind that I also hope you take into account this as well. I understand not having a PC can make stuff considerably more difficult, but a lot of people on these forums will use different platforms and will have different experiences/problems. I personally used to play a lot of DST on the PS4 before getting a PC, and doing so allowed me to realize the similarities and differences both can have just from their controls alone while also being able to use mods to tweak specific things in the game I personally don't enjoy when I absolutely couldn't before, such as the insanity sounds.

We will see, you never know what could happen on the forums!

 

 

Well you kind of stole the words right out of my mouth so.....................

I guess I wont be posting my embarrassingly unorganized ramblings for the sake of upkeeping my anxiety riddled brain.

[Owlrust]

42 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Rng also can curse a veteran's favor.

Or bless it if you're lucky enough lol. I was too late to get a Walrus Tusk in my first winter and I didn't want to cheat or rollback so the first time I entered the caves I was standing right next to a cane.

[Erineyes7]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

What was the point of this thread

The point of the Thread is to discuss the difference between Casual and Veteran, and to stop trying to draw such a thick line between the two.

Such a negative comment to a thread that's purely meant to try and stop the community from tearing each other down. I don't care if you don't like them or whatever, being rude and judgmental is no way to act on a forum.

I agree with what you said, and that just because there's options you don't like doesn't mean you have to tear them down, They're options for a reason.

[Maxposting]

1 minute ago, Erineyes7 said:

I agree with what you said, and that just because they're options you don't like doesn't mean you have to tear them down, They're options for a reason.

I believe you meant opinions?
Anyways, the issue here is mostly the OP wording and the person behind the thread

[Erineyes7]

Just now, __IvoCZE__ said:

I believe you meant opinions?
Anyways, the issue here is mostly the OP wording and the person behind the thread

Nope I'm and idiot and used the wrong there

Also yeah it's pretty wordy, and quite a hefty read, but I think throwing out the Idea behind the thread just because of the person who made it is redundant and will always lead to nothing.

[Horsheen]

I mean my definition of the word "veteran" is someone who's been playing for a long time. 

By my own definition I'm a veteran player, but I play casually, and rather slow paced. 

Difficulties do not need to be tweaked, we have a lot of people at varying skill levels playing the same game, and that means that both sides, "casuals" or "veterans"  must suffer at some points so that the other side may prosper.

[Third Porkus]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

First off let’s set the record straight: the difference between Casual and Veteran Status is a matter of pure self-centered Ego, nothing more.

Veteran literally means "a person who has had long experience in a particular field." it's not about skill its about playing long. Also if you are talking about a skilled player then its not just ego but just wanting to be good at something. Imagine saying that only reason people play in nfl or world cup or nba is ego, not love for the sport or just competitiveness. Also Casual player just means playing for fun or without many specific goals. I think its actually pretty egocentric to assume only reason people get good at a game is because they are egocentric themselves.

[Guille6785]

cope

[Bugsworth]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The so called casual player (the one with less than 10 minutes play time) has more knowledge about the game then(than*) the so called Veteran who has played since 2013- But who actually has the right to call themselves the casual or the veteran here?

than*

 

You mentioned veteran as a few different things tbh. Veteran should be known as someone whos been playing a long time. Casual should be someone who doesn't care about skill. I think you missed "pro" or "fake pro" someone who claims to be good (another word could be above average, better or skilled) 

 

[HowlVoid]

I started out by walling myself in and killing dragonfly this way. 

I think easy methods for killing bosses in games is important. Allowing for player to be creative within the boundaries of what is already possible in the game. Not everyone wants to spend 3-4 hours practicing a fight until they get it right. What's so bad about people having casual fun? 

Walling in the larvae is hardly exploitative as it locks down a very mundane part of the fight. Minions in other fights where handled a lot better with the integration of subsequent bosses. Klaus laughs and gives you a moment to handle the krampi, Bee queen out speeds her minions or they out speed her. I think that in their first attempt at making raid boss fight they somewhat failed in design. Perhaps the intention was that someone is supposed to grab dragonfly's aggro while everyone else killed the larvae. That works in a mmo but not in dst.  There are no abilities to allow a successful aggro of the boss and for a clean separation of the boss and the larvae. The fight can become chaos very quickly. 

As I become older I realize my reaction times become slower and it takes me longer to get muscle memory down than it used to. Whether someone is a veteran or not is a trivial matter and only makes for petty discussion imo. What we fail to realize is that not everyone is facing the game under the same "difficulty"; such as if they are handicapped in some way. Not necessarily in a physical way but potentially also mentally or with strict play times. We forget some people are here for a good time not to take the game so seriously. 

Not to mention this is one of the ONLY times walls are actually useful outside of aesthetics. Walls are the most useless structure in the game for what their intended purpose is. Are we so petty that we cant allow them to actually be useful for once?

[Snugrugbug]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I started out by walling myself in and killing dragonfly this way. 

I think easy methods for killing bosses in games is important. Allowing for player to be creative within the boundaries of what is already possible in the game. Not everyone wants to spend 3-4 hours practicing a fight until they get it right. What's so bad about people having casual fun? 

Walling in the larvae is hardly exploitative as it locks down a very mundane part of the fight. Minions in other fights where handled a lot better with the integration of subsequent bosses. Klaus laughs and gives you a moment to handle the krampi, Bee queen out speeds her minions or they out speed her. I think that in their first attempt at making raid boss fight they somewhat failed in design. Perhaps the intention was that someone is supposed to grab dragonfly's aggro while everyone else killed the larvae. That works in a mmo but not in dst.  There are no abilities to allow a successful aggro of the boss and for a clean separation of the boss and the larvae. The fight can become chaos very quickly. 

As I become older I realize my reaction times become slower and it takes me longer to get muscle memory down than it used to. Whether someone is a veteran or not is a trivial matter and only makes for petty discussion imo. What we fail to realize is that not everyone is facing the game under the same "difficulty"; such as if they are handicapped in some way. Not necessarily in a physical way but potentially also mentally or with strict play times. We forget some people are here for a good time not to take the game so seriously. 

Not to mention this is one of the ONLY times walls are actually useful outside of aesthetics. Walls are the most useless structure in the game for what their intended purpose is. Are we so petty that we cant allow them to actually be useful for once?

I think you posted in the wrong thread