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The difference between Casual & Veteran.


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12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

YES!!! Now your catching on: All major highly risky changes to the game should be optional: As in OFF by Default. And if people want to turn those “Through the Ages” style changes ON they can.

This doesn’t make the game any harder on people who enjoy it how it already plays, and it lets people who want progressively harder to have that as an OPTION to toggle

Both types of players are satisfied.

As a new example some players want a “hurt” idle animation where your character shows signs of not being at full health, but BECAUSE I play State of Decay 2 on Nightmare Difficulty: Adding a “Hurt” Animation to the game that doesn’t impact gameplay in any way: Would be an INSULT to players like myself who see a “Hurt Animation” and want our characters (much like SoD2) to physically limp around injured having actual negative effects (beyond just don’t die)

If such an Animation were added to the game I would want it to be there for more then just purely cosmetic aid, having this “limp around/use tools less reliably” mechanic be tied to an OPTIONAL toggle that’s off by Default.

(I’m seriously trying to come up with new examples of how having things set to OFF by default but having options to turn them ON are a good thing, so if this is a Bad example I’m sorry.)

The TL:DR- I don’t want Klei to back out of making the game EASIER or HARDER when there can be toggles beyond default that cater to both.

Did you not see my last post? Being able to toggle features on and off is a band-aid solution at best. Either you're cutting yourself out of meaningful content, or you're making the game harder without making it more fun, more often than not.

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4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I want Klei to not be afraid of huge changes to the game that make it BOTH Easier & Harder that can be changed through world settings, world presets, alternate game modes etc..

it is very clear to me that Klei often backs out of their OWN Ideas because if it’s not popular with the majority of the community then they just abruptly cancel it- Just go look at all the Unimplemented features pages on Wiki.. but WHY are these things scrapped instead of actually put into the game and used?

I think Klei enjoys the design philosophy of "try it" with a lot of their creatives.  I'd guess there were creatives with ideas who, when they looked to implement them, decided for one reason or another to pass on it.  I wouldn't judge Klei as fearful for things like changing Wendy's passive from her rework.  That passive really didn't fit well with Wendy, but it also wasn't a bad idea.  I think it was reasonable that Klei changed it, and built the glass cannon mode into a different character.  A good creative can take criticism, even harsh criticism, as inspiration for improvement.

Making the game harder is a very difficult subject.  There was a mod some time ago that was supposed to be a "challenge mode" where the game constantly spawned bosses on top of you, and penalized your health if you left a certain radius of them.  What they found out was that bosses constantly spawning wasn't really hard, you had an endless supply of meat and could get all the trees and rocks you wanted, and could easily get them fighting each other XD so surviving was actually pretty easy.  But it did get boring after a bit.  Which is the problem with a lot of things people think will add "difficulty" to the game.  If they come packaged with tedious, monotonous, and limiting, favoring a conservative "don't do anything dangerous" play style they actually hurt the game experience much more than they help it.

Disease was supposed to be something that added scaling difficulty in longer worlds - but it turns out it was just tedious, uninteresting, and in the end failed to engage the playerbase in a meaningful way.  What players did was either turn it off (meaning all of the time spent designing the feature were wasted) or just never replant those resources (which also means all of the time spent designing the feature were wasted.)  They could have simply make grass, twigs, and berries immovable like reeds and had the same effect XD  I remember an early iteration of disease required you match a certain turf to the plant, but that just added 1 more step to the process.  It wasn't difficult, or even interesting really :\ which is probably why they moved away from that.

(similarly many suggestions to remove cheese don't really solve anything, and are thus wasted development time.  For example - making lavae squish through walls gets completely negated when I build a flingo to ice them when they get to the wall.  Or making lavae be able to walk over lava pools, well we can just wall around the entire pool.  Make them attack walls, well I build statues instead etc etc etc.  And honestly that's assuming Klei even wants to *fix* cheese.  I don't think they do, I think they enjoy that their playerbase has found many different ways to tackle the problems they've designed.)

Meanwhile AFW was added and was a tremendous success.  It gave players an extra challenge they could seek out, with good reward for success.  Those who weren't ready wouldn't randomly get their base wrecked either, and you couldn't just walk it through hundreds of trees until treeguards fought it for you, package delivering the boss loots.  Some people hate how this content is optional, but that is the absolute beauty of it - by making it optional players who want the rewards or the experience can dive in as early as they want, and those who aren't ready can keep working on learning the basics like sanity and health management, and kiting spiders / hounds, with only the basic seasonal bosses to worry about (which can all usually be escaped by simply running away) and all in the same world, playing together.

Its no wonder CC was added as a capstone over AFW, incorporating new lunar and ocean elements, and new valuable loot.  Again, without disrupting new players who are not ready for such a thing.  And you don't need to make a new world when you decide to try these things out, because its always there waiting for you.

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30 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Did you not see my last post? Being able to toggle features on and off is a band-aid solution at best. Either you're cutting yourself out of meaningful content, or you're making the game harder without making it more fun, more often than not.

Well now I’m just really really confused… isn’t the entire point of this entire thread ABOUT locking yourself out of content you don’t wish to interact with?

If Klei decided tommorow they wanted to add Acid Rain to DST that bleed out the players health core if in it unprotected, locking players out of NOT interacting with that is kinda… the point?

Edit: I should also quickly point out that difficulty sliders are a thing, State of Decay 2 uses them.. SoD 1 didn’t have difficulty sliders, but SoD 2 does- and when you move those settings: It lets you tailor how the game will play to your personal preference.

The only REAL difference is that picking Greenzone, Normal, Nightmare simply adjusts a few things available on those sliders to how the developers feel that certain Difficulty level should play.

and the reason WHY State of Decay 2 even got those difficulty sliders in the first place was because I.. (along with several other forum members) suggested it: And I only Suggested it because of my experience with DS Single Player and fooling around with ITS Toggle choices.

If you have not played SoD 2 and do not know the difference between its difficulties or the sliders that let you adjust those difficulties, then you obviously won’t understand anything I’m saying..

But the point is SoD 2 PROVES It works, And those features wouldn’t even exist in SoD 2 in the first place had it not been for DS Single Player.

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7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well now I’m just really really confused… isn’t the entire point of this entire thread ABOUT locking yourself out of content you don’t wish to interact with?

If Klei decided tommorow they wanted to add Acid Rain to DST that bleed out the players health core if in it unprotected, locking players out of NOT interacting with that is kinda… the point?

Well, one example I frequently see you use is turning off shadow monsters for players who are bad at fighting them. But if one turns off shadow monsters, then they're going to have an incredibly hard time getting Nightmare fuel. Meaning they're "soft" locked out of making anything that uses nightmare fuel. Such as shadow manipulators, Amulets, night armor/dark swords. Ect ect. (I do admit there are other ways to get Nightmare Fuel, but those are few and far between).

 

Likewise, if Acid Rain gets added, then that event might come with unique resources such as, say, Limestone or Bottles of Acid. Meaning that if those get turned off, then I'm missing out on those items and whatever's crafted with them.

 

Turning stuff on/off sounds great on paper, I do admit. But it is just a band aid at the end of the day.

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6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

when you are bethesda and make games that are only playable with mods so they have to beg sony and microsoft to launch them on their consoles

Despite it being hilarious that Bugthesda relies on mods to let players make the game playable, props to them still for encouraging mods for consoles!

On topic, I think major changes/additions to the game should be on by default. Otherwise it's not an update to add things to the actual game, its just a hidden little toggle buried under the myriad of other options. Default new things to on, and if they're super controversial then go ahead and add an off switch. 

Also KLei goes way out of their way to retrofit all the new shiny stuff into existing games and I appreciate that a lot. Like a super lot.

Seriously what other devs have open betas for players to yell at them about and tear apart while they also make sure to maintain compatibility with outdated worlds in a game with permadeath world deletion? That's absolute insanity! (Thank you devs, you guys are the best!)

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6 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Making the game harder is a very difficult subject.  There was a mod some time ago that was supposed to be a "challenge mode" where the game constantly spawned bosses on top of you, and penalized your health if you left a certain radius of them.  What they found out was that bosses constantly spawning wasn't really hard, you had an endless supply of meat and could get all the trees and rocks you wanted, and could easily get them fighting each other XD so surviving was actually pretty easy.  But it did get boring after a bit.  Which is the problem with a lot of things people think will add "difficulty" to the game.  If they come packaged with tedious, monotonous, and limiting, favoring a conservative "don't do anything dangerous" play style they actually hurt the game experience much more than they help it.

  Here's what that looked like, for the curious.

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

YES!!! Now your catching on: All major highly risky changes to the game should be optional: As in OFF by Default. And if people want to turn those “Through the Ages” style changes ON they can.

This doesn’t make the game any harder on people who enjoy it how it already plays, and it lets people who want progressively harder to have that as an OPTION to toggle

Both types of players are satisfied.

I don't know where you got the idea that through the ages was about difficulty. Nothing I could find even suggests that.

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/A_New_Reign

Quote

Through the Ages

Many moons ago, we discussed launching Through the Ages, and it got waylaid by getting to content parity. We felt strongly that getting to parity at our quality standard was the most important priority, and it took much longer than expected. We’re finally here, and we are now actively working on new content. The team is breathing a sigh of relief that we get to build brand new content again.

 

I’m going to leave Ipsquiggle to talk about Through the Ages as it evolves, but the first step of it is coming to you at Launch: we’re putting in small variations to the basic biomes so that every generation feels a bit different, and these will transition over time as you play through the seasons.

 

As a refresher, the focus of TTA is the evolution of your world over a longer period of time, and more variation between worlds. This will take time to develop, and we will keep you in the loop both in beta branches and through our Rhymes With Play twitch stream, and of course right here in the forums. I’d say this is going to take about 6 months to develop, but uh, I’ve been off before.

Quote

A New Reign, previously known as Through the Ages, is a free Don't Starve Together expansion. It was distributed as an "Update Chain", meant to add game changing features, like Reign of Giants and Shipwrecked did to Don't Starve. Similar to the latter, A New Reign started as a beta.

Between August 2016 and March 2017, Don't Starve Together received an update every 3 weeks, adding new content into the beta branch. Once stable, this content was added to the main version, becoming official. It then became inseparable from the original game.

 

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This kind of throws design completely out of the picture, which is supposed to combat these sorts of dilemma and make people who don't know to learn and enjoy themselves while they do it, and people who know to continue enjoying it and continue being challenged in the game. It is true, the wall change is only a single change that would benefit veteran players in enjoyment of the fight in and of itself and for someone who has consistently been relying on the wall-placing method and could not beat the fight otherwise it would feel like a detriment.

It is also true that the fight is a damage sponge. Nobody likes a damage sponge, not even professional players. From a more intricate design perspective, the change to larva in relation to walls would be only one in dozens not only to the fight itself but anything surrounding it that would need to be required for most kinds of players to begin to enjoy the fight especially as it was intended (I would give you example of details for this on what my approach to this would be, but not right now, maybe some other time), but I wasn't going to go on a massive rant of things that should be changed to facilitate this when I have already done so before in more general contexts in other topics, which I know at least someone over at Klei have at least read to a decent degree. I kept it simple, maybe too simple, but it is a change that as a starting point I think would benefit the game and most players eventually come to enjoy it more than ever before, maybe even enjoy the game itself a little more? For as problem filled this game is, there is rarely anything that would become instantly better overall with 1 or 2 parameters changed or added, rather rebalances and overhauls are needed to many fundamental systems and indicators of the game to make things work. This is why the farming system could not have been as good as it is right now from a gameplay perspective without the massive overhaul that went into it.

But for anyone who is reading this and would rather enjoy the casual base building where you don't have to worry about anything and are the sort of player who would rather have everything trivialised, why don't you demand a creative mode or an easy mode preset, with settings that when turned on/off would change the game to that creative aspect instead? I would not agree that such care free mode should be the default though, there are too many things in the game that orient themselves around survival and challenge that you must overcome and at times continue to struggle with, it would be a disservice to that huge amount of work which can create a better challenge type experience. I don't believe the default for a game like this should be akin to the chill vibes of something like animal crossing. If you dislike combat because the combat is too stressful or janky or whatever else, that is not your fault, I do not blame you, I completely understand that frustration, I sympathise even. It is the game's mechanical fault for having combat be such a necessity while at the same time being so unintuitive that none can truly figure it out on your own, let alone enjoy. There in, yet again, lies the problem of the combat gap.

Admittedly, you can just go into godmode and just be able to build anything without the cost of resources using console commands and play like that. That might not be what you want and the above example would be to more peoples' liking. Maybe someone out there doesn't even know that these things exist.

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3 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

why don't you demand a creative mode or an easy mode preset, with settings that when turned on/off would change the game to that creative aspect instead?

Because when someone likes megabasing they dont only want to experience the detail and attention they give to the build, but also they want to experience the time spent on gathering the materials and evolution from the beggining to the endgame, you might think this is boring but people enjoy gathering certain elements in lategame to use it for the builds, myself included.

And just because one person doesnt feel enjoyment out of killing dragonfly for the 15th time without walls, or dealing with hound waves every 5 days, doesnt mean their whole experience on this game will revolve about using commands to make builds.

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Just now, Capybara007 said:

Because when someone likes megabasing they dont only want to experience the detail and attention they give to the build, but also they want to experience the time spent on gathering the materials and evolution from the beggining to the endgame, you might think this is boring but people enjoy gathering certain elements in lategame to use it for the builds, myself included.

And just because one person doesnt feel enjoyment out of killing dragonfly for the 15th time without walls, or dealing with hound waves every 5 days, doesnt mean their whole experience on this game will revolve about using commands to make builds.

That's a whole separate issue, and that too deserves addressing, but that doesn't work as a counter argument against making the larva jump over walls or a similar approach to that because otherwise you're stuck not making any changes at all when they're asking for them, never making things better for the fear of tweaking one mechanic and then giving up on it because one change and one change alone didn't do much (I think of Klei's attempts at making gunpowder less exploitative as an example).

Something that could address this is giving more desired loot from the fight so that you aren't compelled to even fight the boss more than once or twice yourself. Less reason to repeat the repetitive task or not repeat it at all and you get to enjoy the full extent of the game quicker.

Also late game you are given more exploit methods that require more effort and rarer resources. While other exploits for other fights take much more late game things to set up, so things like tentacles for bee queen, walling off fuel weaver with lureplants, using ice flingomatics to cheese certain bosses or even using a stack of gunpowder to kill certain bosses, walling off dragonfly can be done very early on for your very first fight. And that is the main difference and the reason for why I see this exploit as so much more of a problem compared to the rest. Not that they aren't a problem to be fair, but they aren't anywhere near as prominent and players can often choose to simply fight other bosses more legitimately.

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45 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

This kind of throws design completely out of the picture, which is supposed to combat these sorts of dilemma and make people who don't know to learn and enjoy themselves while they do it, and people who know to continue enjoying it and continue being challenged in the game. It is true, the wall change is only a single change that would benefit veteran players in enjoyment of the fight in and of itself and for someone who has consistently been relying on the wall-placing method and could not beat the fight otherwise it would feel like a detriment.

this is a huge point

as i sad many times beequeen is one of my favourite bosses because of how many methods you have to deal with her which makes farming her a lot less repetitive

having the abitilty of tunning df fight difficulty (preventing all lavaes of coming after you, bloking just some pools or fighting without any wall plus pan flute or not) is one of the best desings for a videogame like dst

i can play with a noob friend and kill df with a wall so that player learn how is the fight or i can be in the other side of the wall if i decide to fight her alone and tryharding (i dont fight her without walls often, im not even confortable with that way of fighting her, but it works for the example) without needing to toggle any dumb setting or breaking the wall. All in peace and harmony

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1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this is a huge point

as i sad many times beequeen is one of my favourite bosses because of how many methods you have to deal with her which makes farming her a lot less repetitive

having the abitilty of tunning df fight difficulty (preventing all lavaes of coming after you, bloking just some pools or fighting without any wall plus pan flute or not) is one of the best desings for a videogame like dst

i can play with a noob friend and kill df with a wall so that player learn how is the fight or i can be in the other side of the wall if i decide to fight her alone and tryharding (i dont fight her without walls often, im not even confortable with that way of fighting her, but it works for the example) without needing to toggle any dumb setting or breaking the wall. All in peace and harmony

I see the opposite. Walling off feels like it has become almost the only way you can fight the boss (even though that's not true) as that is the dominant method most players use and encourage you to use because, well, it is the most simple yet the easiest method to beat the boss and get the loot you want. Don't you think the fight would be more nuanced and the game be better for it if your 'noob friend' could understand the situation better and make a good effort through a better combat system they can understand rather than the fight being trivialised to holding F because you can't know any better? In other words, shouldn't the game be making the player better through understanding and enjoyment, instead of the player having to learn very specific tactics that have to be explained to even progress, otherwise someone better having to constantly oversee them? Don't you think it would be more fun for both of you if you could both be able to enjoy the fight together without this trivialisation that didn't ultimately make the less experienced player feel less useful?

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11 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I see the opposite. Walling off feels like it has become almost the only way you can fight the boss (even though that's not true) as that is the dominant method most players use and encourage you to use because, well, it is the most simple yet the easiest method to beat the boss and get the loot you want. Don't you think the fight would be more nuanced and the game be better for it if your 'noob friend' could understand the situation better and make a good effort through a better combat system they can understand rather than the fight being trivialised to holding F because you can't know any better? In other words, shouldn't the game be making the player better through understanding and enjoyment, instead of the player having to learn very specific tactics that have to be explained to even progress, otherwise someone better having to constantly oversee them? Don't you think it would be more fun for both of you if you could both be able to enjoy the fight together without this trivialisation that didn't ultimately make the less experienced player feel less useful?

the problem with dst that other games with combat oriented mechanics dont have is that dst isnt only about fighting, you have to understand the weather, how often come and how to deal with houds, hunger, sanity, etc so having differnt ways and difficulties in the same world makes it more open and balanced between different player spectrums which is good for a bussiness and doesnt affect in a negative way anybody, just the opposite because anybody method doesnt affect that much other players experience. To use the same example, i have 3k hours but i can play with my 60h friend with the same settings, he can do easy stuff and i can do harder stuff i feel like i will enjoy it

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14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the problem with dst that other games with combat oriented mechanics dont have is that dst isnt only about fighting, you have to understand the weather, how often come and how to deal with houds, hunger, sanity, etc so having differnt ways and difficulties in the same world makes it more open and balanced between different player spectrums which is good for a bussiness and doesnt affect in a negative way anybody, just the opposite because anybody method doesnt affect that much other players experience. To use the same example, i have 3k hours but i can play with my 60h friend with the same settings, he can do easy stuff and i can do harder stuff i feel like i will enjoy it

That does nothing to make the argument that this is an unwarranted change. Yes, other challenges exist, but somehow you think because those challenges exist a boss shouldn't be that much of a challenge? What?

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1 minute ago, ZombieDupe said:

That does nothing to make the argument that this is an unwarranted change. Yes, other challenges exist, but somehow you think because those challenges exist a boss shouldn't be that much of a challenge? What?

even with walls df still being the harder boss to kite, a lot of things can go bad because of that like a hound wave

df isnt the best example of mechanic/exploit abuse anyways...

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9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

even with walls df still being the harder boss to kite, a lot of things can go bad because of that like a hound wave

df isnt the best example of mechanic/exploit abuse anyways...

So the encouraged prevalence of the exploit is justified in the off-chance that the fight is interrupted by hounds... riiiight :D

Though it is something to consider. I personally am avid about not having bosses be raid bosses at all for this game, and this could be yet another reason for it as the event during a planned raid can be annoying. Making more bosses as separate events themselves akin to more single player mechanics could also be seen as a solution, perhaps?

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11 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

So the encouraged prevalence of the exploit is justified in the off-chance that the fight is interrupted by hounds... riiiight :D

Though it is something to consider. I personally am avid about not having bosses be raid bosses at all for this game, and this could be yet another reason for it as the event during a planned raid can be annoying. Making more bosses as separate events themselves akin to more single player mechanics could also be seen as a solution, perhaps?

im curious how was your evolution playing the game from zero to today

i dont play anything similar to how i was playing with 1h, 10h, 100h, 1000h...

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14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im curious how was your evolution playing the game from zero to today

i dont play anything similar to how i was playing with 1h, 10h, 100h, 1000h...

You would need to ask me more specific questions, but I generally started off knowing the value of some things because of some gameplay videos and over time garnered knowledge through guides and reading wiki when I was looking for something specific. Same as you, I don't play like I did when I had less hours into the game. Does that answer your question in any capacity?

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Guys, I don’t consider anything an actual exploit until Klei patches it out of the game.

this thread is intended to discuss ways the game can be allowed to get Easier AND Harder at the same time without ruining the game for any particular group of players.

For example: in the RNG Mob encounters thread I created, which got lots of like reactions- Someone who just wants to peacefully build a base said they didn’t want to fight randomly spawning mobs while gathering their wood to build-

This is ONE PERSONS point of View, I’m sure there are Other base builders who would absolutely LOVE the RNG Encounters..

But: How do you allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too?

Thats what this thread is about: It’s intentions is so we as a whole Community- come together to understand and respect each other’s points of view, while coming up with creative and clever ways to potentially have the types of content we would enjoy added to the game: Without completely ruining the game for others like the above mentioned player who would dislike combating RNG mobs while gathering materials for their base.

This is where actually utilizing the world Gen toggles would become the best solution-

RNG Mob Encounters while gathering Resources? Tons/More/Default/Less/None/Random.

You guys have to surely see where I’m coming from by now right?? (Or at least some folks at Klei understand it)

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13 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

You would need to ask me more specific questions, but I generally started off knowing the value of some things because of some gameplay videos and over time garnered knowledge through guides and reading wiki when I was looking for something specific. Same as you, I don't play like I did when I had less hours into the game. Does that answer your question in any capacity?

Yes, a lot

Spoling the game with guides and knowing each step in a fight makes the fight a lot easier, specially the 1st encounter so, because you just wstch guides to beat the game you want annoying stuff and harder bosses

Some people play the game blind and the learning curve without things to make the game easier will ne so frustrating

Just to learn how to kite her you will expend a lot of time

I guess you went with your ice staves and the finger prepare in the rollback buttom. Maybe you even used console commands to practise the fight. Maybe even today you keep using rollbacks for that fight or you have a mod that makes the game easier or what ever

 

This topic, the df one and the health modifier one are the dumbest and selfish topic ever made and both of you dont wanna understand or just dont care. Both of you use things to make the game easier but klei should waste time instead of releasing content because you wanna force players to fight the boss in a way you like but you dont use and mike just wanna toggles because for some reason he cant just ignore a wall in a boss he doesnt fight (and even if he wanna fight he could just be in the opposite side of the wall)

Srly, this blows my mind

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55 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

instead of releasing content, this blows my mind

What blows my mind is you either skim over what I post or don’t care to actually read it, one of if not THE Biggest content requests from this community lately has been to update old now outdated biomes, mobs, and mechanics of the game- Am I WRONG in this assessment? 

Okay well, this entire thread- is reserved exclusively as a way to come up with ideas & suggestions to have those changes WITHOUT Making the game too difficult on people who enjoy it the way it is- I think really what the issue is, and your just not wanting to admit it— is that you like the Wall strategy on D-Fly, but if you read like literally ANY of my posts: I’m suggesting an Entire overhaul to her boss fight- (because updates to existing biomes, mobs & mechanics was one of the most popular content desires by the community.)

I suggested Crazy things like there no longer being ANY lava ponds in her Biome for you to simply “build a wall” around, and INSTEAD she now flies around during this fight vomiting out these lava ponds and sucking them back up (like Pangolden do ponds in Hamlet) so you never have a guaranteed spot to put your wall.. because she can just fly over it and spit out a new larvae pond on that side of the wall.

What your failing to realize is it’s not JUST some silly toggle choice- it’s also the Completely redesigned Biomes, mobs & mechanics the forums are begging Klei for.

Actually if you want to know the TRUTH- What I’m suggesting is to help those of you who want to KEEP the fight the way it plays NOW, while giving people who want it Reworked.. a new version that doesn’t also change the fight you currently enjoy.

I would Appreciate if you would Leave MY Personal Playstyle and Preferences completely OUT OF THE EQUATION because: I’m looking at things from a perspective of “how do we give everyone what they’re asking for, without changing what people already enjoy to the point they no longer enjoy it?”

For the love of god, I swear some of you guys just like to complain for the sake of complaining.. not even realizing that what I’m suggesting is actually to help YOU, not ME..

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5 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

what the **** is a professional player

A player who gets paid for playing, as a job. These days it poorly correlates with dedication and skill that a professional is typically associated with but instead we have Twitch streamers who are mediocre or even bad at games with a monetary incentive of receiving donations. xD

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On 10/4/2021 at 11:06 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Yes, a lot

Spoling the game with guides and knowing each step in a fight makes the fight a lot easier, specially the 1st encounter so, because you just wstch guides to beat the game you want annoying stuff and harder bosses

Some people play the game blind and the learning curve without things to make the game easier will ne so frustrating

Just to learn how to kite her you will expend a lot of time

I guess you went with your ice staves and the finger prepare in the rollback buttom. Maybe you even used console commands to practise the fight. Maybe even today you keep using rollbacks for that fight or you have a mod that makes the game easier or what ever

You sound to be telling me that as if I don't know or don't understand that, which I do actually and it doesn't go against what I have point out here, but I'm sure you would disagree.

I don't need to practice much of anything anymore, it comes naturally to me once I know the details of something. I make the conscious decision of not going in blind for new things for the most part when it comes to new content because I know for a fact that Klei have proven themselves to be unwilling to design things in a way that you could reasonably learn yourself by just playing.

 

On 10/4/2021 at 11:06 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

This topic, the df one and the health modifier one are the dumbest and selfish topic ever made and both of you dont wanna understand or just dont care. Both of you use things to make the game easier but klei should waste time instead of releasing content because you wanna force players to fight the boss in a way you like but you dont use and mike just wanna toggles because for some reason he cant just ignore a wall in a boss he doesnt fight (and even if he wanna fight he could just be in the opposite side of the wall)

Srly, this blows my mind

You would understand better if you took a course in game design or something, with experience in more well-designed games (this one is definitely not it by a massive margin, even if exceptional mechanics are presentable), I don't know what to tell you anymore because I'm not sure what to say to provide a better understanding of the issue at this point.

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