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Mike23Ua

The difference between Casual & Veteran.

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HowlVoid    8493
25 minutes ago, Snugrugbug said:

I think you posted in the wrong thread

This thread is a response to that thread.

Maybe I should of added a tldr but what Im saying @Snugrugbug is that there can be greater differences between players than just skill level. What we need more of is, respect and tolerance for how people want to spend their time.  

And that game mechanics isn't a good reason for pointing out that someone is doing something "wrong". Game mechanics themselves can be flawed and not easily accessible to everyone.

Sorry if I'm saying too much on the matter but I wanted to add one quick common possible scenario. Playing with a younger fan where proper coordination is not feasible. 

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Snugrugbug    64
4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This thread is a response to that thread.

I see

 

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Maybe I should of added a tldr but what Im saying @Snugrugbug is that there can be greater differences between players than just skill level. What we need more of is respect and tolerance for how people want to spend their time.  

I definitely agree

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Mysterious box    1735

Personally I feel like as soon as someone has learned the basics of horde combat, healing, sanity, hunger, and temperature management they are more or less a veteran as dst doesn't really ask much of you aside from those main points.

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GenomeSquirrel    1360

I think you'd be better off replacing the word veteran with minimalist and the word casual with affluent or pragmatist. The measure of time a person played has nothing to do with the arguement, while no one that successfully fights dragonfly can really be called a casual. As worded now, casual jarringly encompasses both a new player doomed to die at nightfall; and a megabaser with everything the game can offer.

 

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xhyom    303

I beg Klei to give you your niche options that make no sense as you can simply DON'T do the strategy so you can finally stop doing your hundred topics with thousand of paragraphs to say and unsay the same things over and over again calling everyone egocentric while you are the most egocentric one there.

 

 

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GetNerfedOn    8854

for a sandbox game with plenty of gameplay styles resulting from emergent gameplay i don't really see why the divides between player demographics must be reinforced at important turns of discussion... but it happens anyway

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Captain_Rage    2487

A veteran accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the crock pot, defending it with his life. A casual does not.

 

Spoiler

Chasing Gobbler guarantees citizenship.

 

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ALCRD    2442

This just aswell could have been a post in the Dfly thread.

Doesn't really need a separate thread.

Just saying.

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Mike23Ua    14255
37 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

This just aswell could have been a post in the Dfly thread.

Doesn't really need a separate thread.

Just saying.

Dragonfly is just the most recent example- but players of varying skill levels have been at odds with one another way longer then this, and it’s time for it to stop.. it’s really uncalled for, ESPECIALLY in a game where you can quite literally turn On/Off/More/Less of many many many aspects & features of the game.

The are not many games that can allow players to do that, not counting mods… mods has nothing at all to do with the subject.. As an Xbox Player one of the things that made me fall in love with this franchise in the first place was BECAUSE of those menus I can flip and modify to my hearts content.

When Minecraft adds a content update the player is just stuck with whatever is added to Minecraft and it’s just.. there rather you like it or not- you can’t turn off one particular mob or one particular feature: It’s just there and you adapt to it or you stop playing the game.

Dont Starve Together isn’t a game that’s structured like this: if you don’t like this feature or that feature or this mob- you can turn them off, sure it breaks the default settings of the game and probably some core gameplay features too but my point is:

Players have control over their worlds, You can host 24/7 Day, Autumn only, Hound waveless, Sanity Monsters toggled off worlds to simply just spend hours fishing, farming or dressing up Beefalo in year of the Beefalo event.

You can also at the same exact time- Set the game so it’s 24/7 Summer Season, Disable all Rock spawns, Ice rocks, Hound Waves to More, and Sanity Monsters to Tons.

You literally just gave players options below the standard experience alongside options above it…

So I made this post in hopes that people will finally actually see that, and acknowledge that the game is okay to get more casual and more hardcore features at the same time.

 

THE TL:DR you all keep asking me for? with a lovely little menu that lets you make the game as easy or as hard as you want it to play at the time- Why the heck are you guys always at odds with one another’s opinions?!?

Thank You that is all. :wilson_love:

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ALCRD    2442

Well you won't change people's minds with another "Don't fight make peace" thread.

There have been a lot of threads like these across various game forums. If anything they just instigate more fighting and heated debates and change absolutely nothing.

This "veterans vs casuals" dispute dates back to beginings of multiplayer gaming.

There is nothing you or anyone can do so don't take this the wrong way but this thread is still pointless like its predecessors. 

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

When Minecraft adds a content update the player is just stuck with whatever is added to Minecraft and it’s just.. there rather you like it or not- you can’t turn off one particular mob or one particular feature: It’s just there and you adapt to it or you stop playing the game.

That's actually wrong. Minecraft java for example archives every single version update. You can easily rollback or make a separate installation for ANY version at any time through the launcher. 

Some community servers even run older updates. And you can host and play said version of your choosing with others.

So technically you can chose and aren't forced to adap to what new update brought.

I wish more survival/sandbox games had such feature.

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__IvoCZE__    10460
58 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

longer then this, and it’s time for it to stop.. it’s really uncalled for, ESPECIALLY in a game where you can quite literally turn On/Off/More/Less of many many many aspects & features of the game.

You are literally disabling any sort of skill growth

Literally my "casual" friend doesn't change the game because it's borderline insanity to play the same thing all over again without even playing with most of the features

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Mike23Ua    14255
1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

Well you won't change people's minds with another "Don't fight make peace" thread.

There have been a lot of threads like these across various game forums. If anything they just instigate more fighting and heated debates and change absolutely nothing.

This "veterans vs casuals" dispute dates back to beginings of multiplayer gaming.

There is nothing you or anyone can do so don't take this the wrong way but this thread is still pointless like its predecessors. 

That's actually wrong. Minecraft java for example archives every single version update. You can easily rollback or make a separate installation for ANY version at any time through the launcher. 

Some community servers even run older updates. And you can host and play said version of your choosing with others.

So technically you can chose and aren't forced to adap to what new update brought.

I wish more survival/sandbox games had such feature.

I don’t think Xbox version of Minecraft lets me choose to play old versions, but even if I can: That’s no where near on the same level as being able to toggle each individual mob or gameplay mechanic to spawn as much or as little as I want it to.

Players have been at odds with one another in OTHER games because one group eventually directly impacts the other- take Apex Legends as a perfect example: Anyone who was a Wraith main in Season 1 no longer plays her at all (and if they still do.. they’re handicapping themselves and aren’t willing to admit it) The reason WHY is because at the start of every season the developers listened to the cries of Non-Wraith players demanding wraith Nerfs, and if you go and actually look at the patches for that Game: Wraith has been hit with a nerf for 10 consecutive seasons, NOW newer legends have entered the game who do what wraith used to do.. but better then she was ever able to. 

Don’t like using Apex as an example? Fine: Nerf this weapon in call of duty NOW! Add blinking lights to motion sensors in Rogue Company so they’re easier for us to spot and get rid of- Etc etc…

One group will absolutely ruin the game for people who Never asked for those blinking led lights.

With DST it’s Different, because everything Klei adds has options to disable it, and/or options to increase/decrease how much of it occurs.

I promise you 90% of this community disables Wildfires, but instead of removing that completely (Rest in Peace Disease I knew you well) Klei actually gave me an OPTION to make those happen more often.

Does it matter at all that you don’t enjoy them? No- because there’s options to disable them and options to make them happen more often for pure madness & chaos.

DST is a game unlike many of its predecessor’s because instead of having content that directly ruins the gameplay experience for one group of players (and thus results in all out war…) There OPTIONS that let that content Co-Exist on both sides of the Spectrum.

So the TL:DR- Why can’t you all just get along and instead of bashing one sides views and opinions: Maybe you should start looking at BOTH sides of view and providing suggestions on how to improve the quality of the game not just for one group.. not just for the category you most fit into- But for everyone.

Provide input that lets both sides co-exist.

Because UNLIKE it’s predecessor’s that came before it: DST is actually a game that CAN Cater to all sides of the Puzzle simultaneously all at once.

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ALCRD    2442

Xbox version is bedrock not java from what i recall. It runs on a completely different engine aswell and has a lot of major difference including different update structure.

As for DST it doesn't matter how many options a game has "casual vs veteran" will never stop being a thing.

Worse. People often ridicule others for using certain game options even in solo that in no way hurt how others play. *hardcore vs softcore Terraria threads flashbacks*

It's how some people are.

There is nothing you can do except making more "noise" than those people and just spark more fights and heated debates. With threads like these.

 

Threads complaining about how community acts almost never end well and change nothing in the end.

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Shosuko    5270
Spoiler

First off as a quick disclaimer: I’m not creating this thread to start wide spread chaos and global warfare amongst Klei’s forums, this thread along with most other threads like this is a matter of pure OPINION, and not everyone is going to agree with each other’s opinions. I ask that you remember this and don’t start personal insults on another player or their capabilities with the game within this or really any other thread if I’m being honest.

First off let’s set the record straight: the difference between Casual and Veteran Status is a matter of pure self-centered Ego, nothing more..
: So if your a self proclaimed veteran at just staying alive with as little resources as you need.. something like this won’t EVER appeal towards you.. right?
: Again it is all going to boil down to the differences within your own self ego of ill-informed opinions
: I hate a lot of the casual changes Klei has been making to DST
: having the Mini-Map and Inventory PAUSE the Game is such a highly noob feature
: Mega base builders who want to turn off all survival aspects of the game
: you guys really REALLY need to start opening up your minds

kek I sure am glad you prefaced all of that vitriol by stating it was opinion and you weren't here to start a flame war...

21 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

For some people dragonfly is a huge health sponge of a tedious fight, for others.. they build walls to take half of the unique aspects of the fight completely out of the equation.

The walls do not take away either the health sponge, or tedious nature of her fight.  They eliminate one part of the tediousness but dodging her hits is not easy.  Attack speed is not constant in this game, and if you move too far away from her too early she'll deliver a neigh inescapable blow.  There are several different patterns to remember as well.  Missing a single pan flute window can cause immediate death even if you're well armored.  And that's all in a zero lag environment...  doing this with 50-100ms lag just magnifies these other areas.

What you're committing here is a gross oversimplification of the situation which makes me wonder how much experience you have fighting dfly, or whether you've just read the wiki...

Quote

For me, I claim myself to be a Veteran at staying alive under any conditions and as any character possible- But when it comes to fighting bosses: I’m a complete and total casual noob at it.

Ah, okay then.

This is why its important to have informed opinions, or at least qualified and level headed sources.

Quote

So what is Dragonfly? Well it’s a boss.. but what does she Do? She gives players who struggle to stay alive in Winter a permanent solution to staying alive in Winter, in the form of the Dragon Scale Furnace- Which not only provides intense heat when near it (allowing your thermal stones to never lose any durability) but it also gives off light, trivializing both Winter and Nightfall.

Well, there is more in winter than standing next to a furnace lol XD  The furnace can keep rocks hot - but they can lose durability when you're out traveling with them, and during summer when the ambient temperature rises also hits their durability (same thing happens with heat stones in a fridge during winter.)

They don't give light for more than a quick afk when you're health / sanity is high enough to not worry about it, but they aren't going to give you enough light to hunt walrus, gather ice, fight off sanity monsters, or bosses...  They won't even give you light to open a few chests...

Quote

So if your a self proclaimed veteran at just staying alive with as little resources as you need.. something like this won't EVER appeal towards you.. right?

But you know who it WILL appeal to? The casuals, the Base Builders, & the people who actively seek out those crafts that trivialize just staying alive.
.....
THAT is the difference between Casual & Veteran status..

I really wonder if you're using those right terms...  You make it sound like veterans are some minimalist group who purposefully try to make the game as hard as possible at every turn, and mega basers are some casuals who can barely survive in the game without turning on god mode...

There are players who are able to tackle the big bosses in the game with real restrictions.  I'm talking about dfly, no wall, no pan flute, and less healing than I need with both.  I doubt they do it this way every time, for many its probably like a sport.  They do it because they want the challenge.

Mega base builders are often very skilled at the game in order to acquire all of the resources they need for their wonderous creations.  This usually requires defeating every boss in the game many *many* times over.  I have never succeeded at building a base beyond the size of two flingos.

I have massive respect for players who are able to take out bosses with meaningful restrictions AND players who can build beautiful, multi-biome spanning bases.  You'd be surprised how often they are the same people too...

Quote

Maybe I want to enjoy the unique mechanics of this fight.. but I don’t really need any of the loot that is obtained from it? And Maybe I don’t want to spend hours crafting and building walls to make this fight manageable for me to enjoy it alone without needing to swap to Wolfgang and Chug Warly food dishes?

No one is stopping you.  Load up a world, pick Wes, go fight the dfly, feed the loot to a lureplant or heck even delete the server.  Your world, your rules.

Which is kinda the core problem with the other thread - there are two groups, but they aren't veteran players vs casual noobs, they are people who want the game to change to suit *their* style of play, and those who are okay with different styles of play being available based on player preference.

Currently *both* styles are available.  No one is stopping you from booting up your own world and fighting your dfly however you want.  The entire request to change the fight is based solely on eliminating ways other people want to play.

And I know which side of that argument you were on so...  Yeah.

20 hours ago, Bernado1 said:

To this day I think the Fuelweaver is the best boss in the game, his mechanics, his appearance, you’ll need to fight in HIS territory to win (which is very limited), there’s little room for cheesing and his loot is very good.

Or maybe you just don't know about it yet lol  There are better cheese to ace skeletor than there are for dfly XD

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Mike23Ua    14255
45 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

You are literally disabling any sort of skill growth

Literally my "casual" friend doesn't change the game because it's borderline insanity to play the same thing all over again without even playing with most of the features

This is also a matter of opinion, maybe some people don’t want to get better at the game..? Maybe what You do in the game has absolutely nothing to do with how they play it?

For some: fighting bosses (for whatever reason) and doing this player defined “end-game thing” is what they strive for, what they seek to accomplish while playing.. etc.

And for others, maybe they just want to spend a few hours building Carrat race tracks that span the entire map.

I could objectively say turning off wildfires is disabling intended content & without it turned on players never find creative ways to deal with it: But I know how much hate I would get from that because most everyone has come out and admitted they turn them off.

Base Builders are in there own category- stop taking things so personally.

New Player vs Veteran player is the core of this thread: And as long as content is being made to satisfy all parties, why is anyone at each other’s throats?

The most recent example of this is the new upcoming QoL that adds a much requested pause function to the game: I wanted an actual PAUSE button that will pause the game so I can get up to go pee.. what I didn’t want and never asked for: Was a Pause button that pauses the on-screen action while managing my inventory or looking at my Mini-Map.

But as long as there is always an OPTION for both sides: Everyone should (in theory at least) be happy right?

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__IvoCZE__    10460
2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Base Builders are in there own category- stop taking things so personally.

*their

Also I didn't disable wildfires on my old world, since it was easy to counter.

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Keller Max    409

I know a casual who enjoys playing WES (without swapping). Killing all the bosses, getting end game items, etc...

I also know a veteran with 2k+ hours. Who plays exclusively Wolfgang, but swaps to Wendy to kill a bee queen, swaps to Walter to kill fuelweaver, never goes sailing to complete Pearl Quests.

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Capybara007    1139

Pausing existed in singeplayer, why does it bothers you now? And why would it bother you if you arent even gonna use the feature? People can take their time to think, there isnt only one way.

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ALCRD    2442
8 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Pausing existed in singeplayer, why does it bothers you now? And why would it bother you if you arent even gonna use the feature? People can take their time to think, there isnt only one way.

Who said anything about being bothered by it?

The ones who voiced complains about Pause feature were the ones that only want the pause to work via esc Menu (like when you need to go pee or something) not while also checking minimap or managing inventory.

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Capybara007    1139
2 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Who said anything about being bothered by it?

The ones who voiced complains about Pause feature were the ones that only want the pause to work via esc Menu (like when you need to go pee or something) not while also checking minimap or managing inventory.

What is the problem of managing inventory aswell, its more of a feature that they made so the other players do something while the host paused for a sec, and even if that isnt the case, players checking the map shouldnt be a reason to complain from others. Let them play how they want, if you dont like the feature just dont use it. 

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ALCRD    2442
Just now, Capybara007 said:

What is the problem of managing inventory aswell, its more of a feature that they made so the other players do something while the host paused for a sec, and even if that isnt the case, players checking the map shouldnt be a reason to complain from others. Let them play how they want, if you dont like the feature just dont use it. 

Some people want to be able to pause the game to go do something in real life (be it bathroom break , important phonecall etc)

What some people don't want is game automatically pausing from doing ingame things like checking map or opening crafting menus.

Cause some enjoy the risk of checking map and managing inventory while game is unpaused but want to PAUSE the game when they are AWAY from keyboard.

So your "don't use it if you don't like it" argument doesn't make sense here at all.

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Mike23Ua    14255

That’s sort of my whole point guys? That it’s a thing.. a Thing that’s in the game that is completely and totally optional.

I would be very disheartened if it was not optional.. but luckily Klei listens to both the players who want their inventory and mini-map to pause, and the players who enjoy the added challenge of having to avoid dangers while getting a brief break to juggle inventory/Check map.

I am very much AWARE that the game pauses when viewing the map or checking inventory in single player Dont starve, but Single player Dont starve is also a game from 2013… games change and what people enjoy evolves.

Name any other game that is what DST aims to be “open world sandbox survival crafting game” and when you name off those games- Tell me which ones let you pause the game and juggle inventory or check mini map.

Having different OPTIONS for people who want it and people who don’t is the best way to design game content.

Some people will like Pausing Inventory/Map, some people just wanted an actual pause while Inventory/Map didn’t pause because it added to the things you had to keep track of during action.

Klei has added toggles that let both players play with their preferred preferences on this feature.

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