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reverse the drywall changes


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5 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

But viscogel is extremely late game. That's not a solution for most of us as you will most likely need a combination of doors and and drywall to get started with rockets nearer the surface.

Yes, I know there are other fluid locks too. Again, it's not as good a solution as (partially) reversing the change.

Viso-Gel is cycle 300+, so that is when you build advanced designs. Reglith can power creating steam for the first rocket, so better players can most likely do it faster than 300.

 

It's not rocket science that you don't try to build advanced designs early and just KISS and slowly move into more advanced designs.

 

Needing gas safe space locations is advanced game play, that I can't find any reason to need, you can just move what you build down from the space biome.

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45 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

Viso-Gel is cycle 300+, so that is when you build advanced designs. Reglith can power creating steam for the first rocket, so better players can most likely do it faster than 300.

I am sorry, but I am not able to get to rockets before cycle 550 unless I really rush things. And rockets are extremely late game. You will be using drywall and be needing doors a cycle or 100 before you get to viscogel, which is unreasonable demand gameplay wise.

And I need a forward base close or up to the surface else my duplicants will spend 90% of their traveling. I repurpose the gravitas centre for this.

If you want to disagree with me, fine, but just go through this topic to realise I'm far from the only one who thinks a rollback is far from an unreasonable request.

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20 hours ago, SakuraKoi said:

Perhaps some fixes are more important than others and listing what is obviously low priority reinforces this point? If one wants their complaints to be heard, then make them valid ones. Why does the point "it is still Early Access" still stand? Because development is not finished.

 

Replacing ladders is also a straight forward question (not the same as a straight forward implemention, because apparently it isn't!). Properly fixing the steam turbine is a very complex question on the other hand.

 

 
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This is terrible.  Building drywalls behind window tiles was my favourite aesthetic for taking my peasant starting bases into an established pimp base.
pimped.thumb.png.ce6b9dae533f8005c0f7caccfaa4cfba.png

On 07/02/2019 at 6:22 PM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I am sorry, but I am not able to get to rockets before cycle 550 unless I really rush things. And rockets are extremely late game. You will be using drywall and be needing doors a cycle or 100 before you get to viscogel, which is unreasonable demand gameplay wise.

And I need a forward base close or up to the surface else my duplicants will spend 90% of their traveling. I repurpose the gravitas centre for this.

If you want to disagree with me, fine, but just go through this topic to realise I'm far from the only one who thinks a rollback is far from an unreasonable request.

I find that the limit to building rockets is the time it takes to research them + the time it takes to train an astronaut.

I used to wall off the space biome fully between cycles 100-200 when you were forced to do this in earlier versions of the game. So the resources can be available to build a rocket around cycle 100-150. But you still have to wait a long time to research everything etc.

But now that I'm not forced to do this I don't even touch rocketry and prefer building massive infrastructure at the bottom of the map instead, and just testing out new builds for ranches and whatever else I can think of. Some people seem to think that the gameplay is linear and everyone plays the same way lol.

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41 minutes ago, badgamer123 said:

actually anyone know the reason of the drywall behind title change?i cannot think of any exploit .

I think it was a fix to building tempshift plates behind walls for extra heat transfer. Since they disabled buiding behind walls for all backwall buildings (both of them) drywalls can`t be build either.

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22 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

some sort of heat transfer shenanigans possible with the extra tile mass.

If you build a igneous rock drywall behind a gold metal tile you increase the specific heat capacity of the tile be a factor of ~32.

(And there are cases where the "insulated" property of pipes/tiles could be bypassed.)

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1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

If you build a igneous rock drywall behind a gold metal tile you increase the specific heat capacity of the tile be a factor of ~32.

(And there are cases where the "insulated" property of pipes/tiles could be bypassed.)

(And there are cases where the "insulated" property of pipes/tiles could be bypassed.) ????? something new to me? how

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Under Cell/Building you will find some more information.

(Heat transfer still works mostly like stated in the post, just the used average changed.)

 

It´s just a way to increase the heat transfer inside a cell.

(Mostly used to provide an alternative/indirect way to move heat between a pipe and a tile.)

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14 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

If you build a igneous rock drywall behind a gold metal tile you increase the specific heat capacity of the tile be a factor of ~32.

(And there are cases where the "insulated" property of pipes/tiles could be bypassed.)

So why not remove the drywall from the heat system if it's behind a tile instead of making this whole process unintuitive? I thought the whole point of the QoL updates was to make the game more user friendly.

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Here's what I don't understand.. The way space materials, and materials in general are gated to 'unlock' as you progress through the game, leads me to believe on some level that they expect us to go back and modify and/or improve upon early systems as we progress through the game.  But yet, a few changes recently (this one obviously, as well as how the heavy-watt joint plates were recently changed) make it much more difficult to go back and modify previously built systems.  It's not that you can't do it, it's just a lot more difficult and time consuming.  I'd just like some idea as to what their intentions are with these changes and how they expect progression to look in the game.  At this point, I definitely don't understand their intentions.

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5 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

Here's what I don't understand.. The way space materials, and materials in general are gated to 'unlock' as you progress through the game, leads me to believe on some level that they expect us to go back and modify and/or improve upon early systems as we progress through the game.  But yet, a few changes recently (this one obviously, as well as how the heavy-watt joint plates were recently changed) make it much more difficult to go back and modify previously built systems.  It's not that you can't do it, it's just a lot more difficult and time consuming.  I'd just like some idea as to what their intentions are with these changes and how they expect progression to look in the game.  At this point, I definitely don't understand their intentions.

they certainly expect you to deconstruct and rebuild art...no idea why.  it just makes me avoid and use plants which give higher decor, no artist  and no rebuild.

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4 hours ago, SchlauFuchs said:

It is still not nice. the feature of backwall tiles under doors and other tiles allowed to change the floor plan later without having to lose pressure. Taking that feature away is sad.

Yeah, I agree but when they make a fix in this way it is them saying they are not even considering going back. 

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I liked the drywall + tiles / doors as they where.

I could put a door without drywall and use it as a pressure vent. 

When expanding rooms or containers, i could put drywall behind the tiles before i removed them, avoiding loss of mass. 

 

I've build **** ton of steam turbine builds in space, which I've had to fix plenty of times also... Thinking that i will now most likely lose all pressure every time i have to fix something... baah... 

 

PLEASE REVERSE.. thank you

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18 hours ago, SkunkMaster said:

When expanding rooms or containers, i could put drywall behind the tiles before i removed them, avoiding loss of mass. 

I've build **** ton of steam turbine builds in space, which I've had to fix plenty of times also... Thinking that i will now most likely lose all pressure every time i have to fix something... baah... 

I've always thought that it was a bit weird that you could build drywall behind tiles where it didn't do anything (other than exploity heat transfer stuff). Think it would be a bit confusing for new players, and probably causes unnecessary complexity for the developers (less unneeded complexity means less debugging and more development).

@SkunkMaster's point about the ability to expand or make repairs/adjustments without losing a lot of resources is the big problems that needs to be solved. That sort of stuff is the nature of ONI, and I don't think players should be discouraged from making changes due to fear of losing things to space. A lot of the other problems with the change can easily be remedied with minor changes to layouts.

Maybe if drywall/doors could replace tiles without leaking, that could mitigate the problems. It would be really nice if doors could replace tiles for a lot of thing applications (like ranching). I'm hoping that the team is reading all of the concerns and putting a lot of thought into this, because no matter what they do it's going to affect the late game. At least things are fairly playable again.

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The changes went from bad to worse :| This is the only change I'm really unhappy with over the past few updates.

The initially reported issue was so insignificant I'm really uncertain why it was picked (and improved a few times) over so many more burning issues. Nobody really cared about that particular tiny exploit - and let's face it, exploiters will keep using all the other exploits, people who don't exploit simply won't.

Expanding space bases is going to be close to impossible without depressurizing everything...

Not to mention how ugly open pneumatic doors are now, and many people are using those just to create rooms then keep open all the time (and close to invisible)

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The problem regarding moving/replacing tiles and drywalls in space can be fixed quite easily... just let one be able to replace tiles and drywalls with each other.

Even if doors can not be simply replaced, it is not like the pressure loss is that big. Like a sizable room (100 tiles) might hold 300kg O2 but apart from that a single tile of water can be used to cover more than double of that, the leakage is actually quite minor, it's like the time doubles to empty a room for each tile the leak is away

On a side note, I just noticed that opening up an unpowered bunker door takes like 500s and I actually like the door backgrounds~

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