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The fishing system we have vs the farming system we have


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Honestly, has anyone ever used lures?

Look at this

image.thumb.png.7c6f20de87119bb6d5f93c253400611c.png

We have a whole in-depth mechanic on fishing, that almost no one bothers to learn

 

This reminds me

Don't we have a very similar system in-game, mechanics wise...

We do in a way: The farming nutrients system

image.thumb.png.2a8005e3e2da44c5d92f555cf7d74172.png

 

The nutrients system is easy to ignore, and really worth it to master. It is such a cool minigame, I really love what they did with farming.

Fishing system in comparison, is easy to ignore (which is great) but mastering it doesn't really pay off in any way similar to how farming does.

 

Not just that, for farming we have a very cool UI in the gardener's hat that logs all our discoveries. For fishing, without a wiki, you won't be able to find these things out.

Cook book was also a good addition of such an UI. Maybe a "fishing log" book item could make an appearance in the future for this, but the main issue is the end rewards.

 

Honestly, fishing all the individual fishes and fish size needs to do something more in this game.

I really want to play Stardon't Starve Valley in this game, and fishing was really fun in Stardew Valley.

 

 

Feel free to discuss in this thread if you have any other ideas.

I am sad that the end-game of fishing is having a fish aquarium setpiece in base (similar to how farming has crop displays) and it has little practical applications.

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I think the main problem with fishing is just the learning process. I'd really like to see some more non-food uses for fish too like the thermal fish, same for farming too, I always thought it'd be cool if giant garlic repelled bats, and other non-food uses like such.

I think something like more fish meat based on the weight of the fish would be cool, but as it stands the main problem really is just learning the mechanic, so many mechanics tied to ocean fishing are so unintuitive and have no real way to learn.

Out of curiosity to see how well-versed some people are in ocean fishing, I had made this poll a while back:
And considering this is the forums, where most people are usually more into the game than your casual player, I'd suspect even less people in the general community are even less aware of the mechanics I've listed, but that's just a hypothesis :P

 

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I think exchanging bottles with Pearl is a good way to start learning about the ocean fishing system (for me), since I didn't bother making lures myself at first. Another chance is probably fishing deep sea bass to increase chances of Malbatross. I personally prefer fishing to planting though. 

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Personally, the fishing system is just too sluggish to get anything out of, sure i could spend an eternity figuring out how fishing works and THEN spend half a season practically standing still to get... a debatably better thermal stone and a boat flingo.

Or, yknow, you could spend all that time doing anything else.

the strident trident is actually great in that way, speeding up the process by magnitudes, shame its so expensive and irritating to obtain that it does not even matter.

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I hope Klei will revisit ocean content in future updates. I love fishing minigame, same as i love farming giant crops. But farming crops takes me 95% vs 5% me doing fishing. There should be something to it. Maybe give more fish pieces for murdering ocean fish.

Or add some kind of NPC that will trade you items/resources for specific fish. I know merm king exist, but its for Wurt only and item pool is not very rich.

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I use if I have many lures, but almost never craft them. If I find on sea, I would use spork and rubber bung for fishing, or feathery floats (I am getting lots of them from chests) and heavy lure. From not-lures-but-lures I use rot for wobsters, sometimes berries, and usually seeds as they are plenty and last long. Not a fan of these that depends on season, time or weather.

Instead I more rely on nibbling and/or reeling to get fish fast.

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To answer the original question, I would HOPE anyone who has ever heard of the term 'fishing' would be looking for a tackle and/or lure mechanic to improve their fishing experience. The starter options at the tackle receptacle should be enough to clue players in to what they should be using and when.

 

Personally I've always leaned toward the stupefying, and more prominently, the heavy weighted lure (to catch only the most worthwhile fish in a school). Though in my worlds where I've planted fig trees around my camp, I do tend to lean on those more often than not.

 

I don't know if a compendium is necessary like we have for plants, but I've definitely thrown my support for at least keeping log of our biggest catches of each fish to help encourage more of it. That being said, based on my giant crop thread, there probably isn't too much interest in comparison (speaking of which, I really should go update that with the data that the people who did respond provided...) but I do believe that would be a step in the right direction. 

 

Learning how to craft something out of the Ice Bream and Scorching Sunfish might prove to be an intriguing enough goal to entice more players to go fishing. Air conditioning fish stands perhaps?

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Eh, I use them. Just not a big variety of them. I pretty much only use the day/dusk/night lures at their respective times, or stupifying lures if I want to catch the stronger fish (Black Catfish, Dandy Lionfish) for keys. 

 

Ofcourse, there's also not much reason to fish for food at all, given how poor the time investment/food output is.

 

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For successful wide-range oceanic fishing: use Down/Malbatross Quill Float & Stupefying Lure. That's it, all one really needs to know. Rest is clutter and fussy silliness, antithetic to efficiency. Is it ok? Probably not. Could be improved upon? Certainly. But for now that's "the meta"!

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I don't use the fishing mechanic at all really because the entire ocean feels out-of-the-way, sluggish, and clunky. Considering food can be generated in a plethora of ways, I don't really think I'm missing out on much by not caring either, besides maybe these supposed thermal fish.

Meanwhile, farming not only has a whole UI to explain itself, but it can be done from just about any base, requires little knowledge to start with, you don't need to spend time running around to find "Optimal" locations for it, there's little randomness to it... It's a far more accessible option and seems to make quite a substantial lot more food than fishing could, compared to the time you need to spend actively doing it.

That being said I catch Wobsters on occasion as they're near my base (Which took me a while to figure out how to ACTUALLY pick them up) and keep them in a little box where they cry until I get a butter.

4 hours ago, Dextops said:

my dumb ass read the title "the fishing system we have vs the fishing system we have"

Glad I'm not the only one...

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imo it would be nice to have a system to farm fishes (though you'd still need a rod to catch them[?]). Given you can transport them, let alone store them alive indefinitely, it wouldn't be out of the question to set up a fish farm. Would make it more convenient to relocate and rear shoals near base i would suppose. (And possibly spawn your own malbatrosses in fish farms of your choosing?)

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There's at least a few reasons that players gravitate much more to the farming system than the oceanic fishing, off the top of my head here's the biggest reasons:

  • Fishing, even at its most optimal, doesn't compete with any other food sources you can gain on land both in terms of hunger points and haul.
  • The process is a big time-investment. You have to (should) sail out first, then find fish or wait for them to spawn, then cast out a line and spend the next 2-3 days catching fish.
  • (A personal gripe of mine) Fish Food is locked behind the bottle-exchange tab, and subsequently, RNG even though it's very useful.
  • There's no NEED to fish or weigh them outside of trading, which is a pretty big open-ended opportunity in my opinion.
  • Fishing is not as self-explanatory for what it can do as it could. A fishing log would help a lot.

Fishing is a really interesting minigame/mechanic I would love to see expanded upon in the future, and I believe that a lot of these issues stem from eating. Eating/Cooking is pretty due for a rework, and fish would probably benefit a lot from it going forward.

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I think even if fishing was made easier to learn most ppl would still not touch it because it’s just not as convenient and comfortable as farming. You can set up a farm right at your base and do stuff while you wait for your crops to go while fishing requires you to sit around in the middle of the ocean. 

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1 hour ago, Owlrust said:

There's at least a few reasons that players gravitate much more to the farming system than the oceanic fishing, off the top of my head here's the biggest reasons:

  • Fishing, even at its most optimal, doesn't compete with any other food sources you can gain on land both in terms of hunger points and haul.
  • The process is a big time-investment. You have to (should) sail out first, then find fish or wait for them to spawn, then cast out a line and spend the next 2-3 days catching fish.
  • (A personal gripe of mine) Fish Food is locked behind the bottle-exchange tab, and subsequently, RNG even though it's very useful.
  • There's no NEED to fish or weigh them outside of trading, which is a pretty big open-ended opportunity in my opinion.
  • Fishing is not as self-explanatory for what it can do as it could. A fishing log would help a lot.

Fishing is a really interesting minigame/mechanic I would love to see expanded upon in the future, and I believe that a lot of these issues stem from eating. Eating/Cooking is pretty due for a rework, and fish would probably benefit a lot from it going forward.

Fun fact: There are only 2 fish dishes that you actually need to fish out at sea for.

Cheviche, which is just a crock blocker like Rattatoui (2 fish value+1 Ice for 25 hunger and 20 HP)

And Seafood gumbo. Which requires 2.25 fish value. However. Because DST gave fish a meat value equal to their fish value (Shipwrecked fish had 1 fish and 0.5 meat), the only way to make this dish is to also use an eel, the only fish with a meat value lower than it's fish value. Attempting to make this dish any other way will result in Surf N' Turf... Which is also a straight upgrade too Seafood Gumbo, restoring more HP and Sanity.

 

Every other fish dish either uses crustations as opposed to fish (Wobsters / Barnacles), or has a fish value low enough that you can make them with freshwater fish from ponds.

 

Sorry Hornete, but fishing is just legitimately bad.

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Ocean fishing update made even freshwater fishing tedious because they no longer stack because of weight. As if anyone is pond fishing for sport… :wilson_facepalm:

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Of course, lures improve upon fishing but a mile. But as people said, fishing isn't as integral to the game as farming right now but I don't think that's a problem. You still get a fine use out of fishing. If more ways to use the fish are added such as merm king tributes, it'll encourage fishing greatly.

I agree that not all lures are made equal and it could use a bit tweaking. I don't think you're ever encouraged to craft spinners over spoons as even though they are  probably better at catching big fish, you're fine with spoons, bent spork, or pearl's specialized lures (especially stupidying, that thing is the fish anticrist).

Fishing currently serves two seperate functions (three if you include fishing purely for sport/decoration): Providing a supporting food and being means to an other end.

Food part isn't very efficient as people say but isn't really so bad either, there are some really good fish dishes like Surf n Turf, Stuffed Fishhead, Fishsticks, Lobster Bisque, Fish Cordon Bleu and Moqueca. There's an advantage to ocean fishing as they can be much more accessible than ponds depending on what season it is or where you are (especially on a long seafaring trip) and half of the oceanfish have higher fish value for easier SurfnTurf/StuffedFisheads. I think the problem is that a significant number of fish dishes are really flawed, especially Ceviche, Seafood Gumbo and Fish Tacos. They serve little to no logical purpose (I shouldn't count gumbo here as it's an eel dish rn). If they were tweaked to be more worthwhile dishes such as fish tacos being satisfying on the hunger department, they could help fishing be more worthwhile.

The bigger use out of oceanfishing comes from quest-fishing- fishing to attein something else and honestly I find that much more encouraged. Things like Pearl's Quests, Summoning Malbatross, Mermking tributes etc. If you play Wurt now, you'll see that ocean fishing is a much more integral part of her gameplay than any other character as the merm king pays in gold and pays really nicely for the ocean fish- there is a real incentive for fishing. I think fishing can be improved more by adding more non-food reasons to fish. Pearl quests, malbatross spawning and special seasonal fish are legit instances that the game makes you fish seriously but there really could and should be more where different fish matters (i.e. with how much easier deep sea bass and mudfish are to catch, you have very little reason to try to catch black catfiah or dandy lionfish, especially for food).

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With the farms, you have the plant registry to help you out. It's also extremely easy to setup, easy to use, and when you know the mechanics via the PR you can make monstrous results (Flex with 40 giant dragonfruit and 80 toma roots cause why not). Not to mention it's extremely self-sustaining, just plant a bunch of a same crop together, use one man band on them once at their right season, and bam, they will always drop a seed upon harvesting.

With the fishing, everything is basically hidden and blind to the player, the setup is annoying and long, if you want the best lures you must visit Pearl, do her tasks to unlock them, and them SAILS more to get the bottles to trade for her lures, or trade a heavy seasonal fish to her so that you can craft it yourself.

And what do you get? Just some fish meats, which can be easily replaced by fishing eels in the caves which takes a lot less preparations, and discount thermal stones.

Farming can make you never worry about food ever again, which changes your gameplay significantly, fishing is optional and the rewards don't really worth it/ affect your gameplay much.

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2 hours ago, Spino43 said:

And what do you get? Just some fish meats, which can be easily replaced by fishing eels in the caves which takes a lot less preparations, and discount thermal stones.

Don't forget about barnacle farm

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21 hours ago, Keller Max said:

Or add some kind of NPC that will trade you items/resources for specific fish. I know merm king exist, but its for Wurt only and item pool is not very rich.

Pirate characters~?

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