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Everything posted by Theukon-dos

  1. Higher damage than a spear, But still outclassed by Literally every other weapon in the game. Notably Tentecle spikes and hambats Nope, The DR is the same. The only difference is that Battle helms have higher durability Yes, and those are interesting upsides compared to other characters It's not just about not having a hard time finding food. It's about all the other stuff that She can't use due to not being able to eat meat. Admittedly this has been getting a bit less of a problem as more and more meat sources are added, but there's still a lot of stuff she can't use. She can't eat Mushrooms for easy health/sanity management she can't eat Butterfly wings, butter muffins, or Trail mix for early-game healing She can't eat like, Half of Warly's foods, including glowberry mousse or his tempeture regulators. Her only being able to eat meat takes quite a few options away from her. No, Not really. She already has low hunger and sanity, and only eating meat is one of the best downsides in the game.
  2. Difficulty in Don't starve is in a really... Weird spot. To put simply, 90% of the game's difficulty comes purely from the player's lack of knowledge. To a new player, food is this rare, difficult resource that you need to perfectly manage. But any player who's learned how the crockpot works will tell you that you can instantly solve your food problems just by living nexto a spider den and transplanting some berry bushes. Hunger is a challenge that is entirely dictated by the player's knowledge of the game. And this is a repeating pattern in the game aswell. Health is easy to get once you learn to skip healing salves and go for food such as Trail mix or Pierogi, Combat is (fairly) easy once you learn kiting patterns and that Armor is cheap to get and that even basic helmets quintuple your effective HP, Winter is easy once you learn that all you need to do to stay warm is light an occasional tree on fire, and the list just goes on and on. This however leads to a few problems. First of all, Despite Knowledge being the main driving factor in the game's difficulty, Is often very poorly conveyed to the player. While some things are fairly self-explanitory, Many item's functionality are extreamly hard to discern and either require downright excessive amounts of experimenting, or pure luck. For example, As far as I know, the only character who alludes to bird cages being used as a trading station is Wagstaff, meaning that the average player won't even be able to figure out how to use this incredably useful structure. Second, There are several items that are often percived as "Noob traps". These are Items or structures that are extreamly weak in function. And weather intentional or not, serve nearly no other purpose other than Slowing the progress of the new player. The two worst offenders of this are Walls, Which are expensive to build and mantain and are VERY easily destroyed by creatures. And Farm plots, which are extreamly expensive to build, and who's utility I belive is best described by comparing Fishsticks and Fish tacos As anyone who uses these forums can tell you, This difficulty difference is causing a massive rift in the playerbase, And I don't know how much longer it'll last if Klei keeps favoring one side over the other
  3. Leaked footage of the Wigfrid refresh is looking great
  4. Realistically, Wouldn't that make more sense the other way around? Wolfgang's just the strongman, a Circus freak if you will. The only thing his character has to do with combat is that fact that he can hit harder. It's Wigfrid who's the trained warrior of Valhalla, an actress so dedicated and such a skilled combatant she can leech the essence of her enemies. As far as what I would want from a Wigfrid re-work. I'm honestly not sure. I've said it before, But I consider Wigfrid to be one of, if not the best designed characters in the Game. Her perks are unique, she has a fun downside, and she's only recently been de-throned by Wendy as the most played character in pubs. I know mods can be a bit of a spotty subject for people, but @Toros' Wolfgang re-work mod does an excellent job of bringing in Wolfgang's "Strongman" theme to light while still letting him be effective in combat.
  5. Wigfrid was the most popular character up until Wendy's refresh, at which point they've been fairly neck and neck
  6. Mod character. Tl;DR they could wear different hats to gain different traits to fit in with Various Roles. A concept that many have suggested for Wigfrid, despite how bad of an idea it is.
  7. And at last, The most-played characters list returns to Order Also re-posting this one due to the possible threat of relevency
  8. New short is definitly for Wigfrid. I just hope they don't pull another Woodie on her. Rest of the QoL changes are sick though. Thank's klei
  9. Has this been done yet? I feel like this has been done yet
  10. As has been said, DST isn't just pubs. and thus shouldn't be balanced purely around pubs. Additionally, Wicker's One of the most powerful characters in the game, so if any character where to get an impactful downside it should be her. Kudos for not slipping into double standards territory. You have my respect for that. Here's an idea, Maybe instead of balancing around the lowest level of play, We should assume that players are able to Improve and get better at the game. While DST may not be the uncompromising wilderness survival game that DS was, but It is still, at it's heart, a Rouge-like. A game where the fail state is simply how the player improves and get better. While again, DST isn't meant to be uncompromising like it's predicessor. Balancing the game to minimize this aspect would not be a good direction to take the game in. Additionally, Just because the big 3 are so broken doesn't mean they're particularly fun or interesting. There's a lot more nuance to analyzing lists like these than you give credit for. I wasn't talking about how popular or played Wigfrid is (though this did influence my choice to use her as an example) I was talking about how It was her downsides that made her play differently and uniquely from the rest of the cast. I'd consider myself a mid-range skill player. I don't do raid bosses or ruins runs (Mostly because I don't see the point.) Even if I do want the game to be harder, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about character design and who needs updated. I've Also explained why I want more prominent downsides. It's not because it makes the game harder. It's because downsides are what Define a character and make them play uniquely from everyone else. (atleast I think I mentioned that. you can stab me if I didn't) alright, you got me there. First of all, The Terrorbeak lunged her, meaning it was also likely between her and the shelf aswell. Secondly, you can't just use Cartoon physics as a cop out. That's like saying "it's all a dream". It's boring and could solve basically any problem depending on how you look at it. See my third point. Yes, There is a mix of player skill and experience. As with what happens in all pubs. But from everything I've gathered, You want the game, or at the very least the characters, To be balanced around the lowest common denominator in the skill bracket. A way which would not be a good way to go. I don't want Willow to be a greif machine. I want willow to be the pyromaniac she was designed to be.
  11. Her downsides are non-existent. Both Sleeping and food spoilage tend to be largely ignorable. Additionally, While balance isn't nearly as important in PvE games, I will admit. It is important to still have balance or you risk the game becomeing stale and boring. Also, but this logic, Underpowered characters should never have gotten buffed on the basis of it being a PvE game This is true. However. A. It is entirely irrelevant to the argument B. Even if I was a more casual player, I'd still want more and better downsides because that's what truly separates the characters in terms of how they play. Wigfrid's upsides may be more suited for fighting, But it's her carnivores downside that makes her play truly distinctly. This is a Strawman. I never mentioned uncompromising mode. Hell, I never mentioned the game's difficulty for that matter. Newbies perhaps, though they'd probably learn pretty quickly not to use the massive ball of fire near base. As far as greifers go, As I said, Klei really don't seem to care about preventing them at all. So I'd consider this a mute point unless Klei takes more initiative. This is fair, Though the fact that that it cuts straight from Willow being lunged at by the terror beak to the explosions is a good sign that she's the source of said explosions. Also, She's not dead. Again, The explosion was enough to, without exaggeration, Blast the door to Smithereens As a matter of fact, not only did she Survive the blast, but a few frames later she's right behind the door standing Menacingly in the doorframe Even if she could survive the blast, She would have been blasted into the walls or doorframe, and would in no way be in shape to stand there like that. I can't think of any possible way for the events to unfold like they did unless Willow was the direct cause of the explosion Yep. Really it all comes down to what Klei wants to do. Weather we like it or not.
  12. How in high Hrothgar is that a downside? It's a well-deserved limitation and nerf to her, sure, but that's not a downside. Again, these where just possibilities for perks that could be added and specifically don't cause greifing. Klei could easily add some other fire-based perks @Ogrecakes did an Excellent Willow Re-work for UM mode, and with some minor changes to make it noob-friendly would be an excellent change in making Willow the Pyromancer she deserves to be Also we're acting like Klei actually cares about greifers. Did I mention that Klei's done absolutly nothing to combat them outside of willow and firespread changes? you literally only need to log out of the game with an inventory full of resources and boom, you've undone possibly hours worth of work depending on what you took. Except I'm not comparing a highly-competitive FPS game to a lax Survival Sandbox game. I'm comparing 2 games with a large emphasis on character personality to demonstrate how consistency in how a character plays and their personality. Except those are extreamly small details that are unimportant in the long run (except for the Warbucks changes, but let's be honest, that's just Klei caving in to social norms) None of those aspects change what was known and loved about the character, or how they play Willow, once again, was Built around fire. Her personality is Pyromaniac, her design in DS was pyromaniac. She was a pyromaniac. What you gave as examples would be like an actor having a different shirt color between scenes. Willow's changes would be more like Changing the character's entire Actor between seasons.
  13. I agree that Willow's kit shouldn't revolve around burning the whole constant to dust, But That doesn't mean she can't be fire-based while also not being a greif-machine. I mean keep in mind any character can turn a base into a pile of ashes using just a torch. I should note that these wheren't meant as a whole re-work, they where just ideas that could let willow be fire-based while simultaneously being the hardest character to fire grief with, or possibly even being the counter towards greifing. Apologies for not making it clear, but this trait would only apply to Fires that Willow lit. I admit that this is fairly non-impactive, but the main point is that it would work with Willow being a pyromancer and make it harder for her to greif bases. Again, this is just an idea for what a Willow re-work could have that would make it harder for her to greif. Or in this case, let her be the counter towards greifing. First of all, again, Fires lit by Willow wouldn't spread, meaning that lighting an enemy on fire wouldn't be a risk to anything other than the lit mob. And Second even if it's not a particularly strong damaging source, it can still serve it's uses. For example if you're getting ganked on by 2 clockwork knights, you can light one of them on fire inorder to gank the other one while the lit one is paniking. Once again (only because it's relevant) The perks I suggested weren't a whole re-work, It was just ideas for perks that could be part of a rework for the specific example of how fire-based perks could be done without greifing potential. Not to mention that any character can burn a base or resource patch down with 2 grass and 2 twigs. I'm honestly not sure why Willow got the short end of the stick. "No other character has such mechanics". you mean like Wicker and her spellbooks? And even if Willow shouldn't be a fire-magic witch, She was still built around fire, both mechanically and personality wise, and delegating her to a mere summoner with minor fire-based attributes can only really be described as a bastardization of her character. Imagine if Blizzard decided to update overwatch, and they re-worked Mercy to focus more on her pistol and gunplay than beaning the guardian angel of the team. Or if they re-worked to be out of her mek for 90% of the match and only calling in her mek for an ability or two. Sure these characters wouldn't necessarily be "bad" after their re-works, but it entirely forsakes the reason people played them in the first place. And this is exactly what happened to willow
  14. You'll be the one burning For thinking she's so pathetic as to take damage from being lit on fire
  15. I never said that Willow wasn't good, I said that It didn't do a good job of making her Willow. She's "The Fire Starter", she's a pyromaniac, Yet her re-work cared more about her after-thought bear than it did about fire.
  16. First of all, Her downside isn't strong even if you arn't careful. -30 insulation is laughable, and even when she didn't have full fire immunity would easily be circumvented by lighting a tree on fire. Second, Even if she's not supposed to be a "Fire mage lvl 45", Her Pyromaniacy is still barely implemented into her current kit. She has exactly 3 perks related to fire >Gains sanity while near fire (appropriate, but insignificant) >Fueling fire is 50% more efficent (who cares?) >Has a lighter (just a worse torch, isn't even infinite like it was in DS) Even if DS Willow's kit wasn't particularly better. It was built entirely around her being a Pyromaniac, and she could do some fun stuff with Inventory burning And as I said in the OP, Willow most definitly possesses Pyrokinesis, How else could you explain this scene from her short? So in a way, Yes. She is supposed to be a fire mage. but instead she's just a summoner. And third, Fair enough. Though it still makes things a bit trickier for her sense there's no tell for when something's close to death
  17. What? You claim she has the best design and balance, but then immidetly contradict yourself by saying "no real downside outside of winter" asthough that's either good design or good balance Sure, Bernie's useful, but willow's title is The Firestarter not The Bear Hugger. She's not supposed to be a summoner character, yet Klei forsook her entire personality for the bear She's not just fond of fire though, she's a literal Pyromaniac. See, this should be the normal for her character. yet it took the entire forums rioting just to get her the fire immunity she had in DS. She can't use fire for DPS really though, as she then risks burning the drops into ashes. Again, this should be the standard for her character, but instead they decided to make her a summoner and give her Bernie! Her fire affinity traits feel more like Obligation than Klei actually wanting to give her some of that fire aspect.
  18. Quick Disclaimer: Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. However, I tried to be as Objective as possible in making this list, and will try to back my claim up with Evidence and reasoning. I'm also not going to spare new characters/characters that have already been re-worked. And with that out of the way, Let's get to the list THE SIMPLE ONES: A few of these guys I don't really have much to say on, So in interest of keeping things short and keeping your attention, I'll cover them *grabs mic* In song form! (and there'll be an Appendix at the end to list what changes I'd make) Winona's rework was threadbare a Pick and swap for those who care Catapults are much to cheesy and spotlights leave you feeling queasy Wendy got her rework well but hits to hard with Abigail What's the point of being weaker if you simple have a sister? [Chorus to break up the song so it doesn't sound awkward] Wortox really is quite swell with ups and downs and quirks that sell But so many souls you'll simply drown between birds and bugs and bats and clown Warly's an Epiphany of design and philosophy But he picks and swaps with ease and his taste is lame to cheese. And that's everyone I wanted to summarize. What? I said I'd do it in song form, I didn't say it would be a good song. Right then, let's get into the other characters that I didn't list. Wes: as much as his patheticness has become a meme, Wes as a character doesn't contribute anything to the team that another character could do better. He's also not very interesting as a challenge character, as all his downsides are just Wilson, but slower. I would make him a support character who had a hard time standing on his own, but could greatly assist those he was playing with Wurt: Wurt is, put simply, A mess. She doesn't contribute much to the team that can't be acomplished with bunnymen or pigmen, She's a vegetarian with nothing to do with farming, She's a summoner who doesn't rely on her summons, She's a base builder who's buildings come in the flavors of "Pigman re-skin" and "Violent pigman re-skin" And the merm king is more of a hassle to maintain than it is to just let him die and then promote a new merm when you need something done. Her character is, by all measures of the word, a mess. A mess in desperate need of cleaning up. Webber: Webber's main issue is that spiders are to weak to do any combat, and he lacks any major utility abilities, so he's almost entirely delegated to farming spider drops, which is kinda cruel considering they're supposed to be his "friends". There are a lot of directions Klei could take his character, so I'll leave it upto them to decide which direction to go Wolfgang and Wigfrid: These two characters are compared a lot, and for a good reason. Wolfgang out-classes Wigfrid in basically every way He hits harder, has more effective HP, Has a pathetic downside, and has a speedboost, as though his Damage wasn't already broken enough. So because of this, a lot of people have been wanting Wigfrid to get re-worked. These people however, are dead wrong. Wigfrid's quite possibly the best-designed character in the game. Her damage and resistance make an impact and but arn't overwhelming, Her Vampirism is a unique downside, Her Carnivorous nature is a fun downside that actually effects how you play, due to being unable to exploit the high hell out of Shrooms and Cactus, among other things. Wolfgang though only has the excessive amount of damage combined with a downright broken speedboost and downright laughable penalties for anyone who's semi-experienced with the game. I know saying simple "Implement a mod" is generally frowned apon, but I can't think of any better way to improve apon Wolfgang than Toroic's mod "Wolfgang: Stranger newer powers" It nerfs his overall combat ability (not his damage), gives him some good strongman upsides, and gives him an actual downside that's more interesting than just "Hungry faster". It's quite possibly the best possible solution Wickerbottom: Wickerbottom is weird. She's often cited as one of the most powerful characters in the game, but this power is condensed almost entirely into 2 of her books, those being applied horticulture and on tentacles. She does have some edge uses with Birds of the world and sleepy time stories. But whenever someone talks about how powerful she is, it's almost always about those two books. She also lacks any notable downsides, sense cooking food restores freshness anyways, and sleeping's only really good for Wormwood and Walter. Generally, I think it would be good if the sheer god-killing power of those books was diminished, with her other books seeing a bit more utility on their end. Because when is the last time anyone un-ironically crafted "The End is Nigh!" for something other than overcharging a WX. Speaking of whom WX-78 He's boring. There's no better way to put it. His downside is barely a thing, his first upside is becoming nothing more than a massive stat sponge, and his second downside is just "Ignore the entire spoilage aspect of the game until your food is literally just a pile of mold and filth" Oddly, Despite being portrayed as a souless killer robot, he doesn't have any perks that would go with this. He only ignores spoilage, which could easily be passed off as a strong stomach, He doesn't have any boosts to combat abilities, he doesn't gain sanity from killing fleshlings. The only thing "Robot" about him is his vulnerability to water. Like Webber there are a lot of ways Klei could go about fixing him, so I'll leave it to them. Walter: Walter is... Fine, I guess. He's similar to Wurt in that he's clearly trying to be several things at once while doing none of them exceptionally well. He's called the fearless; and credit where credit's due, I do like the idea of having a character that interacts with HP and sanity differently than other survivors, and he actually takes a decent chunk of sanity damage when hit, so I do like this. But then he also has a slingshot, so I guess they also wanted him to be a ranged character? And then Woby just kinda exists entirely separately from the rest of his character. Maybe they wanted him to be a bit more nomadic? but he doesn't gain anything from being nomadic, or loose anything for playing like non-nomadic characters. Really all I want from Walter is for his kit to be a bit more tightly-knit. If say, Woby could attract the attention of certain mobs due to being easy pray, thus giving her an internal synergy with Walter's slingshot, then he'd definitly feel a lot less disjointed than he does now. Wormwood: Wormwood's actually probably one of the best characters in the game, from a design standpoint. His downside in particular is simultaniously one of, if not the harshest, but also the most fun downside in the game by a mile. Really his only issues are A. He's quickly designated the seed slave of the server, which can make things boring for him B. Some of his custom items are a bit underwhelming. The compost wrap is Both Literal and Metaphorical crap, due to a long animation for only 30 HP, the bramble vest has extreamly low durability and only does something when the wearer's hit, which is the exact opposite of what Wormwood want's to do. And... actually no, That's really it, considering he doesn't have many crafts in the first place. It would also be nice if he could force himself to bloom somehow, so that blooming was a bit more of an active perk instead of just something you have for 1/4th of the game time. Maxwell: To be honest, I'm quite happy with where Maxwell is. His puppets make sense for his character, he has some strong utility, and while his downside's simple, his HP is so comically low that it can keep you on edge. He does have some issues though, Mainly the fact that Shadow duelists are possibly the most useless feature that any character has. I've also seen some desire for Maxwell to be a bit more in-tune with Magic and shadows, which could be a fun addition if done well. Wilson: It would be great if Wilson got some actual perks and playstyle, but we all know it's not going to happen, so there's no point in bringing it up any further. Woodie: I do ultimately understand why Klei gave Woodie 2 other Wereforms instead of doing what literally every single DS Woodie main wanted, though It would be nice if Woodie got some more prominent downsides. His Treegaurd is more of a perk than a downside, and the full moon curse (literally) only happens once in a blue moon. After all, Woodie's curse is still just that, a Curse, even if he is more in-tune with his inner beast. Willow: Honestly, I could do a whole essay on Willow's rework, and probably will at some point. But for the time being, Her Rework just baffles me. Willow was always a fire-based character, Her quotes revolve around fire, Her perks in the base game revolved around fire, and she could do some pretty fun Stuff with it. But when DST came around, they ended up Snuffing most of that fire out. Now, this wasn't entirely unjustified at the time. However, Despite this being an obvious change to prevent greifing, Klei has done practically nothing to negate other forms of griefing, such as crafting torches, hammering structures, pressing RMB in the fridge, or literally just logging out with an inventory full of goods. Voltgolts could easally be driven to extinction by griefers, and Klei didn't officially fix this until after they patched the bug that the community used to get around it themselves. Klei has shown that they barely care about greifers, yet Willow Was the one to take what little flak they did have. And then, When the character refreshes where announced, many players hoped that Willow would finally re-gain her lost spark, That she would get the unique the unique, fire-based perks that she always deserved. But did she get that? Nope Instead, they decided to focus on that god forsaken teddy bear. The one feature added as an after thought to satisfy all the people who complained about Willow being gutted when ported to DST is the one they decided to focus on. They didn't give the Pyromaniac fire, they gave her a bear. It's just baffleing that any train of thought could lead to this conclusion. Hell, This was the same update that, through her animated short, revealed that Willow wasn't just a Pyromaniac, She was a Pyrokinetic. She can literally control fire with her mind, yet it took the Entire forums rioting just to give her fire immunity back. Just imagine the perks that she could have gotten with this revelation >Fire doesn't spread to most objects >Can extinguish fires from a distance at a small cost of sanity >Can light mobs on fire without destroying drops. Willow could have simultaneously been the perfect fire character while also having the hardest time with fire-based griefing. Klei, I know you don't usually answer community questions, but I still have to ask. Why the bear? Nobody liked the bear, nobody cared for the bear, nobody wanted the bear. So why focus on the bear? I don't blame you if you don't answer though. I'd probably argue with you anyways. Anyways, I think I got everyone. I hope you enjoyed my sleep-deprived self ranting on about character design for however long it took you to read that. If I forgot anyone, just call me out, and I hope you have a good day.