[Game Update] - 347957

[Lurve]

Volcanea is acceptably painful now:

 

Spoiler

[ETA] Note this is with the new volcano traits.  If the magma is spawning far enough from the starting biome to have a full abyssalite layer, it will.  It then needs POIs to overlap with the abyssalite.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Lurve

[suicide commando]

Salt Vines seem to have some kind of animation glitch going on.

 

[Sasza22]

7 minutes ago, ATOM7K said:

Anyone know if there is a way to create saltwater?

There was supposed to be a guaranteed salt water geyser. But other than that i don`t think so.

[SakuraKoi]

8 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

There was supposed to be a guaranteed salt water geyser. But other than that i don`t think so.

That supposed salt water geyser or just any for that matter, I have yet to find it, ingame and in the yaml files that should reference it... I might have to reinstall dn*py.

In any event, I sure would not mind it replacing a guaranteed steam geyser. Though that might upset the balance in other worlds... (actually it would not if you take it out of the Marsh since Arboria would benefit and in Rime it would shift but it would be more reasonable to take it out of the jungle and that would cause problems)

[watermelen671]

1 hour ago, watermelen671 said:

...what have I done?!

OH GOD IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE!!

 

[Kangaax]

1 minute ago, watermelen671 said:

OH GOD IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE!!

 

Those are awesome

[CrutchPunk]

6 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

OH GOD IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE!!

 

Honestly.... I would want these Dupes! xD

Imagine... a gene splicing update or something.. allowing to cross Dupes with Critters... I could see the benefits of this.

[Yunru]

3 minutes ago, ScreenNameMissing said:

Honestly.... I would want these Dupes! xD

Imagine... a gene splicing update or something.. allowing to cross Dupes with Critters... I could see the benefits of this.

Right up until Bert binge eats all your metal ores.

[Rainbowdesign]

Random start biome trait please

5 minutes ago, ScreenNameMissing said:

Honestly.... I would want these Dupes! xD

I think i would not want to have the slickster dupe would be rather slippery if he oils everywhere...

[DarkMaster13]

I think waterweed went from being completely overpowered to nearly useless.

While I agree with adding some consumption to waterweed, I think the bleachstone fertilization is definitely going too far.  That resource is very hard to get your hands on and only available in quite limited quantities on the map.  Compare waterweed to bristle blossoms, both consume water in irrigation (20 kg/cycle clean water vs 5 kg/cycle salt water) but only waterweed requires fertilization.  Bristle blossom's only other cost is that it has to be in light, has a tighter temperature range, and gives off floral scents.  So bristle blossoms need a larger farm and can't have allergic dupes, which you generally don't have anyway.  Overall, bristle blossom is significantly cheaper to farm, but slightly less convenient.

Now look at what the rewards are, and the comparison is not good.  Waterweed gives 300 kcal/cycle, bristle 267 kcal/cycle.  However, bristles can be cooked into gristle, bringing their calories up to 333 kcal/cycle (all bristle recipes increase calories to this amount) and +1 morale.  There's an increase in labor from twice as frequent harvests and cooking, but that's offset by dupes needing to fertilize the waterweed.  Then we look at the gourmet meals, where waterweed looks even worse.  It's only used as a supplement for mushrooms and pacu fillets (which take a tiny amount of lettuce and don't really count), not the main caloric content.  While bristles are cooked with pincha to make stuffed berries or combined with sleet wheat for berry sludge.  Those stuffed berries give better morale than mushroom wrap and are arguably much easier to get your hands on.

At the moment, my recommendation is to remove the bleachstone fertilization.  The salt water consumption might be good as is, would need testing though.  The waterweed is quite important for food production on aridio, since you can't grow mealwood.  Without muckroot in the forest start, you're in a race against time to try and get either waterweed or mushrooms (which is much harder due to the very small amount of swamp biomes) growing before your limited supplies of pure water run out for the mushbars you're forced to make.

[Theoretician]

4 hours ago, Earl_of_Earlier said:

Anyone else having spastic Dasha Saltvines after the update?

Yes, I get rapidly flickering Dasha Saltvines when they're not in Chlorine gas. I posted it in the bug thread here.

[watermelen671]

37 minutes ago, Rainbowdesign said:

Random start biome trait please

I think i would not want to have the slickster dupe would be rather slippery if he oils everywhere...

Think about it like though...longhaired Slick-dupes.

Massive boost in decor, and you wouldn't have to worry about feeding it.

Though the same thing could be said for normal slick-dupes, although it would a rather weird environment.

Slick-dupes ranching slicksters, with all of them consuming CO2 and emitting Crude Oil...

Spoiler

Actually the more I think about this the more I want it.

 

[Nightinggale]

34 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

I think waterweed went from being completely overpowered to nearly useless.

While I agree with adding some consumption to waterweed, I think the bleachstone fertilization is definitely going too far.

I completely agree. Now we have a plant, which relies on non-renewable resources. The only source of salt water is the salt water geyser (which you might not have) and while bleachstone can be produced, getting a renewable production going in a scale big enough to matter seems somewhat unrealistic.

[DarkMaster13]

6 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

I completely agree. Now we have a plant, which relies on non-renewable resources. The only source of salt water is the salt water geyser (which you might not have) and while bleachstone can be produced, getting a renewable production going in a scale big enough to matter seems somewhat unrealistic.

Don't forget to add that all you're getting out of it is a 0 morale food that rots in 4 days or something you can combine with mushrooms to make both +8 morale but no affect on the calorie content.  The only thing it actually makes sense to use is for improving pacu fillet and that's only because you only need a tiny amount of it for the recipe.

[natanstarke]

47 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

I think waterweed went from being completely overpowered to nearly useless.

While I agree with adding some consumption to waterweed, I think the bleachstone fertilization is definitely going too far.  That resource is very hard to get your hands on and only available in quite limited quantities on the map.  Compare waterweed to bristle blossoms, both consume water in irrigation (20 kg/cycle clean water vs 5 kg/cycle salt water) but only waterweed requires fertilization.  Bristle blossom's only other cost is that it has to be in light, has a tighter temperature range, and gives off floral scents.  So bristle blossoms need a larger farm and can't have allergic dupes, which you generally don't have anyway.  Overall, bristle blossom is significantly cheaper to farm, but slightly less convenient.

Now look at what the rewards are, and the comparison is not good.  Waterweed gives 300 kcal/cycle, bristle 267 kcal/cycle.  However, bristles can be cooked into gristle, bringing their calories up to 333 kcal/cycle (all bristle recipes increase calories to this amount) and +1 morale.  There's an increase in labor from twice as frequent harvests and cooking, but that's offset by dupes needing to fertilize the waterweed.  Then we look at the gourmet meals, where waterweed looks even worse.  It's only used as a supplement for mushrooms and pacu fillets (which take a tiny amount of lettuce and don't really count), not the main caloric content.  While bristles are cooked with pincha to make stuffed berries or combined with sleet wheat for berry sludge.  Those stuffed berries give better morale than mushroom wrap and are arguably much easier to get your hands on.

At the moment, my recommendation is to remove the bleachstone fertilization.  The salt water consumption might be good as is, would need testing though.  The waterweed is quite important for food production on aridio, since you can't grow mealwood.  Without muckroot in the forest start, you're in a race against time to try and get either waterweed or mushrooms (which is much harder due to the very small amount of swamp biomes) growing before your limited supplies of pure water run out for the mushbars you're forced to make.

You can make mealwood there but its super hard and uses even more water " make a tempshift plate with ice from ice machines to make your mealwood farm live again". I totally agree on waterweed being totally destroyed anyways especially considering pufts in general being worthless for months...well waterweed is just not even an option anymore.

[Wintersdark]

4 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

And also very inefficient, since a single puft will only produce 15 kg of output per cycle.

Lettuce isn't really worth the effort of fertilization, even if it was fertilized by doing jazz hands at it once per 3 cycles.

I feel if it's going to have these requirements (particularly the largely non-renewable bleachstone), needing to be submerged in some (but not too much) water, etc... It should be better food than meal lice.  Even if just by a little.

[Yannick Vachon]

So, to give an idea of Oceania with some of the new traits, I tried to create a new map and it seems completely messed up (which means a lot of fun to play!).

Here are the code name of the map and the traits:

OCAN-A-1139048250-0
    Frozen Core (Ice replace the magma layer and I even have 2 geysers hidden in the ice!)
    Slime Molds (Slime in a lot of place, even in the depth of the previous magma layer)
    Subsurface Ocean (More Salt Water!)

And here goes the full map:

[BaloneyOs]

Would anyone willingly keep the following traits?

 

- Any of the four boulder traits (which could even take up more than one slot)

- Geodormant

- Metal Poor

 

NGL I feel like these make rerolling kind of a pain especially when some rolls are wasted with opposite traits (geo/metal quantities) or redundant traits (boulders).

[Yannick Vachon]

13 minutes ago, BaloneyOs said:

Would anyone willingly keep the following traits?

- Any of the four boulder traits (which could even take up more than one slot)

- Geodormant

- Metal Poor

With these options, it almost means you need to rush for space if you want metals. So you need to make sure that every kg is not wasted at all, especially if you want some steel around for space tech buildings.

[Machenoid]

4 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

• Waterweed now requires irrigation (saltwater) and fertilizer (bleachstone)
• Added bleachstone to the tidal pool biome

Fertilizing with bleachstone isn't the problem, the issue is the lacking mass of the bleach stone tiles, the loss of mass when it's mined and the difficulty in manufacturing more of it when it inevitably runs out.

I'll cut to the end of the story: In order to successfully colonize the asteroid the game wants you to print 12 duplicants. Remembering kcal requirements double with the hardest hunger difficulty, meaning you need twice the plants, which requires twice the fertilizer being spent (effectively 24 dupes) From there it's simple multiplication to find out just how gimped you'll be if you want to rely on waterweed as a food by itself or as a morale booster.

I have found tidal biomes that spawn small enough to only have around 40 tiles of bleachstone in them on non-oceania maps, making it only a novelty instead of something useful. If it wasn't for wild growth and replanting, it would inevitably become worthless (and if it was confirmed by space exploration that you had no chlorine source at all, the waterweed seeds would get more use by being composted!)

tl;dr: Multiply bleachstone mass in tidal biomes by 5 to 10 times. Something that won't run out within 100 cycles.

[DarkMaster13]

16 minutes ago, BaloneyOs said:

Would anyone willingly keep the following traits?

 

- Any of the four boulder traits (which could even take up more than one slot)

- Geodormant

- Metal Poor

 

NGL I feel like these make rerolling kind of a pain especially when some rolls are wasted with opposite traits (geo/metal quantities) or redundant traits (boulders).

It'd be fine if they were balanced, to give good and bad traits in roughly equal proportion, or depending on a balance point set by the asteroid type.  The greater the impact of one trait, the more impact it's converse is.  So if you get a really bad negative trait like large boulders, you'll also be given a really good positive trait.  Then if you reroll away all the really bad stuff, you'll never get really good stuff.  Adds more variety and interesting variations on the games.

Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to make it so that the starting asteroid, terra, doesn't have any traits so new players don't have to worry about that stuff.

[Machenoid]

17 minutes ago, BaloneyOs said:

Would anyone willingly keep the following traits?

Masochism challenges.

There needs to be a third difficulty level beyond "Survival" that enforces these negative traits appearing on asteroids, while "No Sweat" completely disallows those asteroid traits which limit gameplay from appearing. (fewer geysers should never happen on "No Sweat")

[zerat]

Nice fixes!

 

Still hoping the bug where water and salt water have the same density so they repeatedly layer 1g packets on top if other 1g packets over and over

[Junksteel]

Contrary traits should be fixed. Here we have 'geoactive' and 'geodormant' as traits.

[Yunru]

One has to question why a weed is so hard to maintain and farm. Aren't weeds supposed to be hard to get rid of, not keep?