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Moon florid postern was a mistake


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The Winona rework already shows why.

Tryhards are now comparing every character in a "Is it better to just plop special structures down and switch to Holy Trinity?" way.

Because right now this can be a legit strat.

There used to be some consequeces that you stick with the character you've chosen forever. Right now you can just switch them like socks cuz it ain't hard to do.

It also creates unhealthy (imo) playstyle of switching to op characters to do something dangerous (ruins, boss) instead of trying to learn how to do it with character you've chosen

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The celestial portal isn't the problem, it's Winona being more annoying to play than other characters. Normally, I do just stick to using one character, Winona's rework gave her neat structures (that persist after she's left the server/despawned) and an annoying "perk" (the hunger penalty upon crafting.) It's not people's fault for putting two and two together and making use of the portal because they don't want to deal with playing a character that has hunger drain for crafting with no upside.

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It's a tough situation. Winona's background makes a unique structure perk make sense. If this were singleplayer her catapults could justify the hunger issue—the catapults are good and you're stuck with the con. However, there's two issues: 1 - The con is too annoying, it's not fun. 2 - In DST you can switch characters, and since Winona isn't required for operating the machines you can escape the downside via portal.

Even if you couldn't use the portal it'd basically be one person contributing something great to the group while being condemned themselves.

Winona's structures can't be her entire upside. She has to have something else (quick crafting became a con as of now).

Sure some players switch to Wig for helmets, but some play her for the combat perk or even the meat-only downside. Even for the downside, because it's interesting and easy enough to work around. Crafting isn't. You'll always be crafting so you're always being punished.

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I wouldn't call the celestial postern a mistake, rather a decision that might not appeal us.

I get your point and can totally understand it. Our character choise isn't a meaningful one anymore, we can always change our mind and choose another survivor practically without consequences.

But on the other hand, if people have more fun with this system, because they can now play multiple characters in the same world - why not let them? It's a game after all, people are supposed to enjoy playing it (the more the better), and those who prefer to still can stick with one character in a playthrough.

I for one haven't changed characters on my own world and don't plan to ever do. Even dispite Winona's really cool new structures. 

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Funny, because players would change character by asking admins to despawn them anyway before celestial portal in places I've played. Besides, you can have one account go as Winona, set everything up, and then it's done for everyone. And none ever plays as Winona. Even if there was no way to change character, none would ever play Winona, because she's a pain to play as. The players who took her would ask to change character anyways or just leave the game and not come back because her hunger issue's that bad.

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6 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Tryhards are now comparing every character in a "Is it better to just plop special structures down and switch to Holy Trinity?" way.

Now hold on, at no point in my thread did I ever say to specifically switch to the Holy Trinity. Most of the other characters have some sort of innate ability that's tied to their character and you have to be that character to do it, but that's not really the case with Winona. Its a longevity issue, which @Zeklo very nicely summarizes it for me, which is what I'm trying to get at:

5 hours ago, Zeklo said:

2 - In DST you can switch characters, and since Winona isn't required for operating the machines you can escape the downside via portal.

Even if you couldn't use the portal it'd basically be one person contributing something great to the group while being condemned themselves.

Winona's structures can't be her entire upside. She has to have something else (quick crafting became a con as of now).

Sure some players switch to Wig for helmets, but some play her for the combat perk or even the meat-only downside. Even for the downside, because it's interesting and easy enough to work around. Crafting isn't. You'll always be crafting so you're always being punished.

As for the Celestial Portal being a mistake, I'm in line with @fimmatek as well. Our character choices aren't as meaningful as before, but I also don't really change characters myself in my own worlds. People can play with more characters in the same world, and some people prior to the Portal may have picked a character they thought they wanted to be in the beginning, but changed their mind later and really wanted to be someone else instead, which they now can do.

The reason I was critical in my thread was because I didn't want it to be a full year from now where all the reworks and DLC's had come out already, and yet we kept seeing this recurring theme with future reworks or DLC characters where longevity was an issue. It'd be too late by then to voice my opinions and concerns that would make an impact, and I though it would be darn shame if that's what ended up happening (which I still see as Winona being, but its fine if you disagree) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I don't use celestial portal, mainly because there isn't a reasonable explanation for it. But I think it's nice to have a option like this.

And about exploiting the portal, I don't think there's much to be concern about. Because DST is a multiplayer game, we are encouraged to combine each character's abilities. For example, with one Wigfrid in the server, everyone can use better and cheaper armor and spear. The portal just gives players who can't always play with friends a way to have a taste of how co-working part of the game would feel like. And don't forget switching characters comes with extra costs that you shouldn't be paying if there are some other players, so, in all, moon portal isn't very OP.

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The portal is basically the same as one player leaving and another joining, so...meh.

Personally, I tend to stay as the same character no matter who I play. I kinda go into a server planning to base my strategy around their strengths/weaknesses. Wendy isn't one of the 'big three', but her pros/cons change how you approach the game. Best character for getting settled into the Ruins super early game, in my experience; and the killer bee strat can actually keep a public server nub group alive with no setup required. Other characters have their own little niches.
...Winona's problem is that she's good at building a few buildings that no longer require her to be around once they're built, and bad at everything else, because of the relatively high hunger cost of crafting affecting nearly everything she does. Just let your hunger drop below the 50 threshold? Then you're slower at just about everything than any other character.
Gather materials, switch to Winona, build machines, switch back. There's no reason to use her longer than that. She can make a few nice buildings...but she doesn't have a gameplay niche.
Wes is just plain a better pick, and he's supposed to be the challenge character.

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I have no problem at all with it.

Use it from time to time, I think I went from Wolfgang to Wicker and then to Winona.

I can defeat bosses without changing character(making gunpowder lol), but I do it anyway because I want a different character(different appearence), not necessary because of what the character can do. I might change to Wilson soon or another character. I want to wait a bit longer until the beard mod gets updated before I am Wilson again. :D

I did pick Winona for her buildings as I don't want to spend time making gunpowder and to see how powerful she was but I can change to different character now as I have already made a few buildings but I will stay as her because I like her. Wes next?

Sure it might be cheating with the buildings but I still have fun playing the game, makes it also easier as I am alone :( 

Even if I did play with others I still want the ability to change characters and play in a different way.

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I explained in another thread what all characters should more or less have to make choosing between them harder: 

-A selfish perk, something you do better and makes you like using your character, but its something yours and permanent: EG: Wolfs mightiness, Wigs regeneration and resistance, Wendy's abigail.

-A team oriented perk: Something the team benefits from above all, like wigs helmets, wendy's sanity stations, wicker's books, and now winona's awesome catapults.

-A reason to stay: A perk that gives you a reason to think twice before changing characters, like when you play maxwell for a while and become completely careless of your sanity, or play wx and get used to the speed and always having a stack of gears in your backpack. Those things that make you wanna stick to a certain character. There are also limitations like even if you can make 50 books of each in the lategame and just switch to Maxwell, they both play so differently that most people have preferences of one over the other, and its usually not as simple as discarding one of the two.

According to my example, Winona now has a team skill, and not the other 2. As a matter of fact the last point is the opossite, she's annoying to remain with.

So the issue here is Winona's not having a decent selfish perk, not the portal. The portal actually encourages for rebalances to be more in depth now.

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More options is always better than less. I personally like the being able to switch to the character I need in the moment. I got established as Wicker, Use Maxwell to mass harvest, use Wolfgang if I need to, and I'm about to switch over to Winona to make some catapults. I also like that players who join my world aren't stuck playing the same character every time they visit. The Winona rework is one thing, but you leave Dorothy Moon Portal out of this, SHE'S A SAINT!

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52 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I explained in another thread what all characters should more or less have to make choosing between them harder: 

-A selfish perk, something you do better and makes you like using your character, but its something yours and permanent: EG: Wolfs mightiness, Wigs regeneration and resistance, Wendy's abigail.

-A team oriented perk: Something the team benefits from above all, like wigs helmets, wendy's sanity stations, wicker's books, and now winona's awesome catapults.

-A reason to stay: A perk that gives you a reason to think twice before changing characters, like when you play maxwell for a while and become completely careless of your sanity, or play wx and get used to the speed and always having a stack of gears in your backpack. Those things that make you wanna stick to a certain character. There are also limitations like even if you can make 50 books of each in the lategame and just switch to Maxwell, they both play so differently that most people have preferences of one over the other, and its usually not as simple as discarding one of the two.

According to my example, Winona now has a team skill, and not the other 2. As a matter of fact the last point is the opossite, she's annoying to remain with.

So the issue here is Winona's not having a decent selfish perk, not the portal. The portal actually encourages for rebalances to be more in depth now.

I have rarely seen the terms of a problem summarized so well. I totally agree.

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I think that having the ability to switch characters is a good thing, but I don't believe it's something that should be able to be done at the drop of a hat. Character choice becomes a lot less relevant once it's up. Especially since the material cost for actually switching is fairly cheap. Why use Webber 24/7 when you can just switch to him for a few days, mass spider farm, then go back to being Wolfgang?

The portal needs some kind of downside to being used. I remember that the loss of known recipes was enough to usually discourage it's frequent use (for me at least) due to it's inconvenience. But now that it's gone, there's no real reason to not abuse it. Maybe add a 20 day cooldown or increased cost of switching?

 

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4 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think that having the ability to switch characters is a good thing, but I don't believe it's something that should be able to be done at the drop of a hat. Character choice becomes a lot less relevant once it's up. Especially since the material cost for actually switching is fairly cheap. Why use Webber 24/7 when you can just switch to him for a few days, mass spider farm, then go back to being Wolfgang?

The portal needs some kind of downside to being used. I remember that the loss of known recipes was enough to usually discourage it's frequent use (for me at least) due to it's inconvenience. But now that it's gone, there's no real reason to not abuse it. Maybe add a 20 day cooldown or increased cost of switching?

 

In my opinion it was perfect before, because losing all the prototypes was something that gave you a lot of annoyance. Now it's really too cheap: maybe it would take the booty of a new boss to change characters (A lunar monster? That would be great!)

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20 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think that having the ability to switch characters is a good thing, but I don't believe it's something that should be able to be done at the drop of a hat. Character choice becomes a lot less relevant once it's up. Especially since the material cost for actually switching is fairly cheap. Why use Webber 24/7 when you can just switch to him for a few days, mass spider farm, then go back to being Wolfgang?

The portal needs some kind of downside to being used. I remember that the loss of known recipes was enough to usually discourage it's frequent use (for me at least) due to it's inconvenience. But now that it's gone, there's no real reason to not abuse it. Maybe add a 20 day cooldown or increased cost of switching?

 

Adding a 1/4 chance of getting killed while wanting to change character could be... interesting *queue the evil laughter* :cool:

Seriously though some penalty should be in place for changing characters, or make it way more costly than 1x Purple Gem and 1x Moon Rock.

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Winona is much more enjoyable now, give her a try people.

Also:

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The portal needs some kind of downside to being used. I remember that the loss of known recipes was enough to usually discourage it's frequent use (for me at least) due to it's inconvenience. But now that it's gone, there's no real reason to not abuse it. Maybe add a 20 day cooldown or increased cost of switching?

This please. I like the cooldown cost, I'd even extend it to once per ingame year, so you reaaaally have to think before just going there and switching. Cause you'll be stuck as whatever you chose for a while.

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8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The portal needs some kind of downside to being used

Yes. And a real downside not just a cooldown. Imo it should be loss of recipes and map. That way you'd at least have to use cartographer's desk and think twice b4 switching characters

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6 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Yes. And a real downside not just a cooldown. Imo it should be loss of recipes and map. That way you'd at least have to use cartographer's desk and think twice b4 switching characters

Every time the devs introduce something that not every noob can easily make use of, there is an outcry here on the forums, and the devs make adjustments. I will spare you the examples, and also the consequent prediction of what would happen if your suggestion was implemented.

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Funny how everybody wants a nerv for the portal. I'm not using the portal very often, and when I do I stick around with the char I play with for quite some time. Cooldown would be ok for me I guess cause i rarely use it anyway. change the cost of the moon idol to cost more moonstone? maybe but moonrocks are very tedious to collect. I remember me sitting in a world waiting for the moonstone to come down and still didn't had enough of it (I'm talking about waiting 2 full years...ofc doing something else in between) to upgrade the portal.

Anyway why would I care about some tryhards switching the game and "abuse" the mechanic of the portal? 

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