Wortox Needs to be Nerfed

[NightfallsCurse]

I feel Wortox needs a nerf, his souls are a bit OP for healing, hunger, and traveling purposes, although he doesn't travel faster in most circumstances..

Early on, you can get plenty of souls by the end of day 1, by punching 14 butterflies.
Wortox doesn't need food farms like most others (a soul farm for Wortox), although food farms are definitely not required to survive the dangers in the Constant.

His souls are super easy to gather, no matter the season. You will never have to worry about hunger if you farm bats every night and butterflies every morning (except for those winter days, sigh), and you can keep a few stacks of butterflies in your inventory for extra souls by murdering all at once, one at a time, you get the picture.

How should he be nerfed you ask? Well that brings me to my next point...

Less Health Every soul released:
A soul heals for 20 hp per soul released (this decreases by 1 health per player in range of the soul being released)
Since souls are easy to obtain, at least nerf the amount of health being given... let's say 5-10 hp.
Healing is super easy for Wortox and his group, so I feel we need this change for him.

Smaller Mobs shouldn't Drop Souls:
Smaller mobs drop souls am I right? Even if they're alive, they shouldn't drop souls.
For example, bees and butterflies shouldn't drop souls because they're small and too easy to kill, and bees can be stunlocked (so can spiders), same goes with spiders, but their groups can stack real fast if you attack one during dusk or night in a spider quarry or any other large group of dens, so we can leave those alone.
Same ALSO goes for Fuelweaver's woven shadows. They can easily be killed with a weather pain and drop easy souls, this is why they made it to where baby tentacles don't drop souls any longer. Those are alive too!

More Sanity drain and less hunger for eating souls:
You know, Wortox and his souls are a great food source. 12.5 hunger and -5 sanity, let's say we increase the sanity drain and lower the hunger gain.
I'm saying we'll go for 7.5 hunger and -15 sanity.

Other than that, I don't want to ask for anything else, I just felt Wortox breaks the game and needs a nerf

Feel free to agree, disagree, or argue with me.

Edit: i made a typo and put 2 breaks, i apologize for the "inconvenience"

[Guille6785]

no

[Dextops]

no

[SomebodyRandom]

Should we nerf Honey and Crops as well? They're pretty much Souls that are really just as easy to get (although not as mobile), and more versatile. 

(As funny as the "no" train is, I don't think we should just send 1 letter comments.)

[minespatch]

I made this mistake before in a comment.

[Maxil20]

6 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

I feel Wortox needs a nerf, his souls are a bit OP for healing, hunger, and traveling purposes, although he doesn't travel faster in most circumstances..

Wortox already has a hard cap (and in fact punishes you for trying to go past that cap) of 20 souls, which is pretty good, but still quite balanced among other items in the game. You can use critters to “increase” the amount of souls you can carry around, but that cuts into inventory space and other additional resources (like bug nets to catch bees/butterflies).

The healing part is probably the best part Wortox has, but I wouldn’t call it spectacular aside from one incredibly specific synergy between him and Wormwood. It’s simply another option of healing that can be more desirable in some cases, and you can certainly work around if you don’t have a Wortox around.

Hunger is a bit more difficult. On one hand, they are a very good restoration food, especially because they don’t spoil. But on another hand, they kind of need to be because of Wortox’s half hunger downside otherwise. Unless you eat 4 souls per day, or 2 souls + the equivalent of 75 hunger from normal food, he essentially has a permanent 2X hunger drain. In addition, Wortox isn’t the only character that has easy options like this. Webber can eat monster meat which is incredibly abundant, and Wormwood can eat red caps, which are often overlooked otherwise. Food in general is also not very hard to come by, if you know where/how to look for it.

15 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

Early on, you can get plenty of souls by the end of day 1, by punching 14 butterflies.

Almost every other character can eat those said butterfly wings for 1.75 additional days of food and 112 HP. Punching butterflies is a viable strat to be set for food/health early on, even if you are not Wortox.

17 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

His souls are super easy to gather, no matter the season.

His souls are easy to gather, but is that a major issue? Hunger/HP are 2 important stats, but you can get those 2 stats in other ways as a non Wortox, and you still need to do other things if you want to progress or stay alive. 
 

21 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

Healing is super easy for Wortox and his group

This is if you keep a Wortox around in the group at all times. A Wortox dropping souls is not going to help the Maxwell and Winona from 6 miles away. Meanwhile Winona/Maxwell can still prep full stat healing foods or use healing items to stay alive. It’s still probably the best healing in the game in a group, but the other healing options are not that much worse to where they don’t matter if a Wortox is on the server.

25 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

I'm saying we'll go for 7.5 hunger and -15 sanity.

This would absolutely destroy the reason for Wortox to use souls for food Ever. The reason souls restore so much is because it’s the only decent hunger option he has if you don’t have access to a bunch of hunger restoring foods and you need to go out for a decent period of time. Half stats from food otherwise is really painful, and you still pay a price of 20 sanity per day doing an only soul diet. Making it take 10 souls and up the cost to 150 sanity per day is far more costly then what it’s worth.

28 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

I just felt Wortox breaks breaks the game and needs a nerf

 

I feel like Wortox is one of the best characters earlygame, but he never goes higher that that. After the earlygame, when healing and hunger become more easily managed, Wortox starts suffering quite a bit, and it never really gets any better for him. His food options lategame are either eating twice as much or eating 4 souls, and you would have access to healing foods/honey poultice/etc. at that point to where the health from souls doesn’t matter as much.

[Cheggf]

If Wortox were to receive anything it would be a buff, he's a bit on the weaker side. Not that he needs a buff, though, I think he's fine.

[Mysterious box]

42 minutes ago, ShadowQueen said:

 

Cooked Potato

-20 hp

-25 hunger

Spider Nurse

-400 hp

-heals Webber for 8 hp

-heals other spiders for 150 hp

-infinite loyalty and no costs or limits

Wortox

-must kill living things to gain souls

-only gains half stats from food with no work arounds aside from eating souls which are needed to heal and teleport

-can't teleport while mounted

-hated by most creatures meaning no followers unless Wurt is around

-can eat souls for hunger at the cost of souls and sanity

-can drop a soul to heal for the same amount of hp as a cooked potato if he's not healing anyone else

-can heal a group

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Keep in mind while he's a fun character he falls off more and more as the game goes on.

[NightfallsCurse]

It's nice how people have their own opinions tbh, I might be the only one who thinks he needs a nerf

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Cooked Potato

-20 hp

-25 hunger

Spider Nurse

-400 hp

-heals Webber for 8 hp

-heals other spiders for 150 hp

-infinite loyalty and no costs or limits

Wortox

-must kill living things to gain souls

-only gains half stats from food with no work arounds aside from eating souls which are needed to heal and teleport

-can't teleport while mounted

-hated by most creatures meaning no followers unless Wurt is around

-can eat souls for hunger at the cost of souls and sanity

-can drop a soul to heal for the same amount of hp as a cooked potato if he's not healing anyone else

-can heal a group

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Keep in mind while he's a fun character he falls off more and more as the game goes on.

Maybe we need to nerf healing altogether

[Masked Koopa]

Personally id buff wortox to make him more useful in the late game, his perks are too replaceable. Orange gems are cheap as chips thanks to their limited uses making them tend to accumulate, and healing can easily be obtained from jellybeans, farm plants, pierogi, jerky, etc etc etc. 

It's also well worth noting that being able to eat butterflies means practically nothing - you can throw the wing in a crock pot with any veggie (including mushrooms), and get both hunger and HP from it thanks to butter muffin, as well as even getting a bit of sanity. All wortox does is get more HP or hunger from it at the cost of the other stat, as well as skip the prep time. The real meat and potatoes is the ability to eat bees, which while neat, is not exactly insane.

 

The main place wortox shines is in the very early game, which a lot of players have made a habit of repeating constantly - but that's just simply not the direction the game is headed. Look at celestial champion. Look at the new fig trees. And if wagstaff is anything to go by, our next major content is going to be locked behind the already very late game champion. The game isn't going to always be about going through the early game over and over again, and as a result characters like wortox are 100% going to be left behind.

[Baark0]

wortox's perks are much more suited to the early game or a nomadic playstyle: teleport allows for fast travel, which is nice when you're always on the move, but not helpful when you just need to walk over to a chest area or a farm. his readily available healing is nice, but again, in a world that lasts longer, souls (and pretty much all healing) will get outclassed by bone armour. his 1/2 stats from food is essentially a 2x hunger drain if you dont eat souls, and while doing lategame activities, such as building, you may not want to farm souls for 4 minutes every ~2 1/2 days, but in the early game souls are plentiful since you can just kill things while exploring. in the late game, id consider wortox underpowered.

this isnt a moba tho, this is a sandbox survival game. im kind of sick of people complaining about x character being too weak/strong. there's many ways to accomplish the same task in this game and that's what i love about it.

[Vixen Doe]

Forumites figuring out which character they want to say needs a nerf today

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, CodexCorporis said:

Forumites figuring out which character they want to say needs a nerf today

I say we should nerf Charlie she's too op

[HellHeater]

leave the old characters be 

like come on i dont want to everyone to be wes copies 

if klei made a character that way it had a reason right 

[Terra B Welch]

3 hours ago, CodexCorporis said:

Forumites figuring out which character they want to say needs a nerf today

I got the perfect thing that needs a nerf, it's called NOTHING! :P

[Well-met]

forumites do not appreciate the concept of balance, this thread was doomed before it even began

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

forumites do not appreciate the concept of balance, this thread was doomed before it even began

Is a sandbox. There is no need of balance, just avoiding faceroll characters to prevent people being bored because the game becomes so easy.

Wortox makes early games way to easy but also is fun and sucks hard in long term so i dont think is worth wasting dev time to nerf a character that isnt imb4

[JosePapp]

13 hours ago, ShadowQueen said:

It's nice how people have their own opinions tbh, I might be the only one who thinks he needs a nerf

Maybe we need to nerf healing altogether

Why though?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, JosePapp said:

Why though?

to make the game more grindy i guess

[OsiriCousland]

14 hours ago, Dextops said:

no

Edit: I was just scrolling on my phone and quoted by accident.

But same, really.

[Frosty_Mentos]

just no

If anything more I'd love to see one more use for his souls cause he's somewhat underwhelming and between balanced. Sanity issue is only biggest factor when playing him.

[Captain_Rage]

Say... how does soul-hopping work when riding a beefalo? The Lazy Explorer allows you to teleport while riding beefaloes. With liberal / "limitless" hopping potential it could feel slightly "overpowered", although it probably won't break the game (only compromise the immersion to some degree).

[thegreatJash]

Not again. Why does this always pop up somewhere? I can't escape the "Nerf Wortox pls" threads.

[Mike23Ua]

I wouldn’t say he needs a “Nerf” but to be made “More Interesting” would be nice..

Like my opinion of a perfect Wortox Nerf would be to make him have to be “Judged” more often than other characters- What I mean is he should have the Naughtiness Meter fill up on him quicker than all other characters, and just like normal Naughtiness- Increased chances to spawn Krampii/Klaus just a little something that makes his Imp roots have a little more flair to them.

Maybe the less naughty he is the more healing he can do to other players? (Which that in itself would be a HUGE Nerf to him.)

Basically what I’m saying is let’s not just Nerf a character for the sake of nerfing them.. let’s instead Nerf them with actual lore, deeper personality and logical reasoning.

However- Personally I don’t see Wortox as being anymore OP than Wendy, Wigfrid or Wurt (yes I said Wurt)

People heavily underestimate Being able to recruit an entire Army of Merms with something as simple as a few bird seeds random birds fly by and drop.

Wurt is actually very very VERY good- Especially if your playing Solo.. 

Even Webber’s new rework and the web by whistles/switcher doodles make him a formidable foe for most enemies- I had TONS of Satisfaction killing Moose Goose with a large horde of spiders I turned into better spiders with the switching cookies.

Every character has a role they need to fulfill and when it comes to Wortox- He’s the single best healer in the entire game..

[Owlrust]

I mean aside from healing teammates (which is affected by diminishing returns based on how many people you heal) and teleporting he doesn't have much else to his kit.

Eating sucks because of the sanity drain of eating souls, which isn't detrimental if you want to farm NF, but can be annoying in the early game until you get good sanity restoring foods (such as dryed kelp) or sanity gear (such as Life giving Amulet + Top Hat combo, or simply a Tam O' Shanter) to mitigate not only the sanity at night but also the -5 penalty to each soul you eat. The penalty seems negligible until you need to eat on an empty stomach which could easily take away 45-50 sanity away to do so by souls alone, and requiring you to drain half of the total souls you can carry (even more than half if you don't carry the max, which I don't, to prevent accidental overfill). You essentially need double of whatever food you're eating just to get the same benefits; in fact, there's only a handful of recipes that will give you benefits while still being more than the cost of the ingredients, that's why certain individual ingredients are more manageable to eat such as Honey, and why Meaty Stew is one of his best recipes to make.

Also this was mentioned as a tip for Wormwood by another user in the "Unknown mechanics to share" thread awhile back, but I found it's just as useful for Wortox and was worth mentioning if anyone was interested. Placing Chester next to a Mosquito pond or two will draw aggro from them and eventually they will die after attacking him enough and drop both blood sacks AND souls automatically. One more thing worth mentioning that I like to do is placing fences around a frog pond with a corridor opening with 4 Anenemy's down the line that will kill frogs as they path outside the pen. You'll get frog legs for small jerky (for guaranteed 5 sanity each time you eat) and souls as well.

I wish there were recipes only he could make for himself using souls and other ingredients to make them more nutritious. Would also make farming more viable for him because of that, in my opinion.