Who Needs Second Rework?

[Mysterious box]

I'd say wurt needs another look tho I'm mostly satisfied due to the wetness change the 3 big issues she has are the merms getting stuck, merm king trading being mostly pointless and a time waster, and while I'm sure many would disagree I feel her mask either needs to last alot longer or just not rot I've personally seen that most players don't even bother with using the merm king or merms if their not wurt as replacing the mask is to much of a hassle for most and getting fish requires too much of a time sink for random rewards when the only one that matters is the spots

 

[xhyom]

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'd say wurt needs another look tho I'm mostly satisfied due to the wetness change the 3 big issues she has are the merms getting stuck, merm king trading being mostly pointless and a time waster, and while I'm sure many would disagree I feel her mask either needs to last alot longer or just not rot I've personally seen that most players don't even bother with using the merm king or merms if their not wurt as replacing the mask is to much of a hassle for most and getting fish requires too much of a time sink for random rewards when the only one that matters is the spots

 

RWYS made me consider Wurt as an actual character, but merm king is just sooo tedious and resource needy that i don't even see the point of trying to build it if i'm not in late-late-late game building an army.

[Harrowick]

My choice is Winona. She's at the same point she was before her rework, almost never played as. She's better now, of course, but still severely lacking. I feel like if they could update her once in a while with a new building, it'd be pretty neat. Giving her an entire tinkering tab for just 4 structures, one of which is just another generator, is rather... dull?

 

There's a lot of fun to be had with a character who takes after her boss' inventive mentality, and it'd be cool to have a character who updates along with the game with new buildings. Winona seems like a pretty important lore character, but she's almost as rare as Wes, heck, maybe rarer?

 

To make her less of a pick-swap character, there could be a system that allowed Winona to upgrade her buildings, but require a new fueling method that only she can do? Think Bernie, his weaker form is still accessible to non Willow players, but his stronger form requires Willow. I can already think of a catapult upgrade that shoots quicker, less damaging shots, but is much more accurate. It could require rocks to refuel, but only Winona would know where they go? I 'unno. 

(on top of that, perhaps allow the hammer to degrade Winona's buildings back to their all player availability in case Winona leaves?)

 

(P.S: I could see Winona making a sprinkler-like structure for farms and the like.)

 

[Muzarello]

I almost never play winona, I tried once surviving a year with her and idk, I made a spider and a feather farm but in the end, she is not that appealing to play, I feel that she needs some tweaks, or new crafts, not for only combat related stuff, the thing is, people don't use her because you just build catapults for a boss or a farm and switch to someone stronger or even just funnier to play.
My suggestions, not a winona main here:

-New crafts under the alchemy engine or even the shadow manipulator
Like little vacuum-cleaner-robots that collect stuff of the ground for you, a poor man's lazy forager, the robots can be attacked by hostile mobs and they can't reach the itens in the burrows in the caves, so it's not taking away the use of the amulet, mob farms will still be needing the forager or the player collecting, but would really change wood farms,gecko farms and such, Maybe they could even collect grass and twigs for us.
They would walk with us like mandrakes do and they can be put in our inventory but they do not stack, They would have a little inventory for the things they collect and they would work like a tackle/spectackle box about opening them and such.
The range they would roam,idk, if you have a suggestion say it.
Maybe it could have a controller to give a signal to the robots to come back to you even if they are busy collecting.
Only winona could build(of course) and use them, as they are somewhat a tier 2 craft for her, it's not like turning on a generator, other character wouldn't understand the complexity.
Keep the other character's using her generators, it's not like they can't put a gem in the socket or put nitre(this can strike me back just because of Walter's Slingshot)
The robots wouldn't be used by other players so it would help with her not being a switch character
Giving her more Utility crafts would help too,if you have some ideas say it.
Base builder and mega basers would consider her more, and people already mentioned Sprinklers and Spotlight fixes.

Or all of this could me having a trip, it can be.
 

[me real life]

9 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

her catapults only exist to make you swap to and from Winona to cheese a couple of bosses.

In my opinion this isn't a problem with Winona, this is a problem with players. Winona's catapults are really fun and interesting just to mess around with, and I'm 100% sure there's tons of farms you could make using them, but it's the players who decided that the catapults are only ever supposed to be used ever for the two bosses they're "meta" against. Klei gave us an interesting new tool in Winona's rework, everyone found the very few situations where they're the most meta option, and then collectively stopped experimenting with them in favor of saying they're not useful enough (while simultaneously too overpowered?)

[Mike23Ua]

I kinda just want Wurt to be able to get Royal Merm armor and weapons from possibly trading with her own Merm King for them, that she can equip regular old naturally spawning Merms with- I get that this kinda defeats the purpose of crafting her Merm Guard tower thing (whatever it’s called) BUT what it would do is allow me to suit them up in head gear, body armor and maybe a tentacle spike or royal spear? Making naturally spawning Merm shacks even more useful to her then they already are.

[Primalflower]

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I kinda just want Wurt to be able to get Royal Merm armor and weapons from possibly trading with her own Merm King for them, that she can equip regular old naturally spawning Merms with- I get that this kinda defeats the purpose of crafting her Merm Guard tower thing (whatever it’s called) BUT what it would do is allow me to suit them up in head gear, body armor and maybe a tentacle spike or royal spear? Making naturally spawning Merm shacks even more useful to her then they already are.

i like this idea, in the sense of allowing the merm king to give wurt X or Y swampy item...I think the strange tentacle sash that guard merms wear and good ol' tentacle spikes would be nice..

[GelatinousCube]

12 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

Well, I think this does stay true for most people even in their current state. A big part of Wigfrid's appeal is convenience, and it's way more convenient to carry around some basic minerals for making armor on the go, than to go out of your way to get thulecite crowns and dark swords and such.

I main Wig and this is definitely true to an extent. I predominantly use her personal Helmet and Spear and I always carry a stack of 20 gold (always restock at base) at all times for this purpose (also super handy and means you have gold anytime you need it for gold tools, doodads etc). Having access to armor or a decent weapon at all times is certainly extremely handy. You can also restock armor during battles this way so if you ever run out you aren't just screwed.

The Helmet is simply amazing and I use it for the vast vast majority of encounters even most of the bosses. Notable exceptions are Thul Crown for Fuelweaver/AG and Beekeeper Helmet for BQ. It's durability, cheapness and great protection paired with her innate damage reduction makes her helmet just ridiculously good.

The spear on the other hand.... not that great. Definitely a highly useful item and my go to for most mob encounters and for clearing ruins (clockworks aren't that tough anyway and clearing ruins you want as much inventory space as possible so you can take all the loot out with you in one go) but for the vast majority of bosses I use a combination of Hambats, Thul Clubs, Dark Swords and Tentacle Spikes or whatever I have extra of/feel like using. The spear just doesn't cut it for bosses and results in battles lasting longer requiring you to have more healing/armor/time.

The Helmet doesn't need to be touched at all and honestly the spear probably doesn't either as its great against mobs/smaller encounters. If anything does need a small boost though it is definitely the spear.

 

Her Fire song however..... that needs to go and be replaced with something more useful.

[gghhrr]

16 hours ago, Slagger said:

Sorry I wasn't clear. His floor farming needs buff*

maybe you haven't tried Wormwood more than enough

he is pretty amazing at the farming, no tiling needed, know what plant need precisely, aoe talk to plant on blooming, self-trigger blooming

currently his floor farming skill is even more powerful than you might think it is

they can be zero care needed, unlimited free space for large amount of seeds

in fact, someone had even grown giant crops without planting them in farm plot

[Yuuko]

Winona has great upsides and downsides.  The downside is less noticeable when you're spam crafting, but early game when you're just getting established and crafting a thing here and there its effect is more evident.  I love playing her and building her catapults to kill things for me.

[Zeklo]

12 hours ago, Petit Citron said:

It could require to craft a specific item to trick the pig.

  The thing is the Pig King doesn't have a problem trading with non-human characters. It's Wurt herself who refused to do so.

1 hour ago, gghhrr said:

maybe you haven't tried Wormwood more than enough[...]

[...]currently his floor farming skill is even more powerful than you might think it is[...]

The only somewhat worth-while farming skill is how he doesn't need a hoe. Saves a bunch of time [and resources]. Everything else loses its worth once you pass early game (and growing Giant Crops was a bug).

Wormwood is in no means a bad character. I feel like a lot of people assume that's the argument that's being made, but most of the time it isn't. Truth is, Wormwood is far stronger than ever before. My, and others, complaint is that he basically lost his farming niche due to how easily replicatable most of his perks are. Which is a huge shame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wurt is in a similar spot, even before the farming update. She is by no means weak.
She's a bit rocky in the early game, but her 33% hunger boost from fruits/veggies made her very difficult to starve as—RWYS just makes playing her a bit more comfortable. Wurt has always been a very capable character. She just lacks a completely original identity since her design has bits and pieces everywhere.

I love playing Wurt, but I mostly due so because she's a fish and her vegetarian perk diversifies gameplay. Her perks aren't necessarily bad in terms of strength, but they're just a bit bland. I was always one to build pig/bunny empires so I figured I'd really enjoy her character, but it's more or less of the same. Just slightly better.

[Ohan]

9 hours ago, Zeklo said:

My, and others, complaint is that he basically lost his farming niche due to how easily replicatable most of his perks are. Which is a huge shame.

This is true but ive made peace with it now since in return his more unique mechanic, Blooming, has gotten much much better. Before id say free farming was a big part of Wormwood because aside from livings logs craft that was pretty much it but now thats no longer the case, his character has gotten a lot more depth. Farming needed to become more practical for other survivors imo theres no way around it. And he still has perks in regards to farming that fit his character perfectly and make him fun to play/give him “flavor”, they can be substituted by other characters but nobody can do it like he does (for what its worth). Ive also read on the wiki that apparantly seeds planted by Wormwood take 50% longer to rot once ripe on the vine but i dont remember reading this in the patch notes at all and i havent done a side by side test yet..

The only thing that could make him better now in my opinion is more plant mobs to interact with. I was also hoping his craftables would get a once-over, like automatic reset for the living trap and making the bramble husk more practical for combat by either making it repairable with ferts or lowering bone shard cost to 2 or replacing the 4 shards for 4 hounds teeth since those pile up into infinity as Wormwood since ur not making toothtraps.

[wons]

ok so i voted for a few character, but i don't remember which exactly i choose but i remember that i picked them because they don't have a strong enough downside BUT i remember that i picked wurt, i know exactly why i have done this so:

for me wurt doesn't need an entire rework, just some small change, but what changes, you ask?
well my main problem is that wurt can't get rid of the trinkets, wurt can't trade with pig king, merm king gives trinkets and you'll get trinkets from other sources, giving all of them to antlion would be wasteful for me and changing character just so i can get rid of them for me isn't fiar, my solution to that is to change merm king's loot table: trinkets would work like fish and make merm king enable to give trinkets

someone mentioned that wurt would have 1.25 dmg multiplayer from merm king buff, and i quite loved this idea but i don't think it's neccesary
also someone mentioned that merm's pathfinding sucks and some other bugs so yea, fixing them would be great as always

my other problem is with merm, when you chop, or mine with merms they have specific range how far they can wonder from the player, and personally it's too small which leads situations like: merm tries to chop/mine but also has to keep close to me which looks like he had parkinson or something :< just extend it, it could be even fixed in QoL or just in regular patch notes

[Cheggf]

I put Warly in because I want him to receive the attribute "2x duration of food buffs" to encourage staying on him and make him more interesting. Not really a rework, though, just a minor change.

[Nyr]

In my opinion :
(It's just personal opinions, I'm sure other contributors will have different opinions )

4 characters could be reworked (the character is inconsistent - badly used) :
-> Winona : half of her perks are useless, and her tools are way too static and fuel consuming : as other said, she's just there to glitch bosses. Although there would be a niche for a tech character to pimp your base and your day-to-day surviving experience (and even more since the scientist, Wilson, has no science perks)
-> Walter : the original idea to have a ranged-combat character that get hit "harder" in close-combat, with an overall "noob" theme, is a great idea. But add the pioneer hat mechanic, the no-loss dusk/monsters sanity loss, no clothing sanity gain, 5-trees sanity gain, fire stories sanity gain, faster fire-cooking, camper's tent, slower hunger drain while camping, Woby, ridable big Woby, bee allergy... Isn't it a little bit too much ??? It's like Klei added every idea they had, and the character is overcomplicated and unbalanced. There is no harm in doing simple yet gameplay changing characters (like Wendy).
-> Maxwell : unpopular opinion, but to see the King of the game (hardest character to unlock in the base game) become the king of gathering wood (you're basically the farming slave of the group) is kind of a deception for me... I would love to see a character bending the rules of the game, have some perks to use its creations, and weaknesses linked to the shadow "masters".
-> Willow : I think she's just bland right now. Of course it's dangerous to create fireproof characters for cooperative servers, but I would really like to see a character that fights in setting everything on fire while dancing in the blaze. With easy tools to set fire, gain damage reduction while burnt, coal uses, ways to control fire etc.

3 characters could be rebalanced (the character flaws/perks are not balanced, or he suffers from DST mechanics) :
-> Warly : the crock pot wealth gives this character as a great potential, but as its flaws are not very consistent (can be bypassed half of the time, or totally block few things) and its perks too (few dishes/spices are totally OP, few are situational, and more than half a garbage...) he feels like a missed opportunity (and he's among the least played characters in game stats...). He's my favorite character, so I imagined a rebalance for him here with adapted flaws, utility dishes buffed and fight dishes nerfed.
-> Wurt : as other said, the global Merm/fish mechanics are not very consistent and should be refined for a more logical character gameplay. Wurt also suffers from the crock pot dishes very meat/fish oriented, both for hunger and health... The farming update will sure help her a lot, as she basically consumes a lot of raw vegetables, but good vegetarian crock pot dishes would not be a waste !
-> WX-78 : the gears are very scarce in DST, and as he looses half of his gears upon death it makes every death very very punitive (and that's strange for a noob-friendly character). So he's often played without ameliorations, just for eating stale food and charging mechanic. I think Klei should really rethink his relation with gears !

4 characters could be nerfed (the character is just too strong compared to others) ;
-> Wolfgang : as food is not a problem as the game advances, the x2 damage and 25% speed boost set him way higher than any other character in fight situation, for a minimal investment.
-> Wigfrid : I think her early game is too easy (with starting items) and her damage reduction is unnecessary. She's so tanky that Wigfrid players tend to tank everything and don't lean how to kite (but it's necessary for almost all other characters...)
-> Wortox : in a surviving game healing should be, in my opinion, scarce (and I would like to see all the crock pot dishes heals divided by 2 !). Wortox can heal himself 400 hp, or 300 hp for 6 characters (=1800 hp) just with 20 souls taken from butterlies, rabbits, spiders... is a little bit too much ? I like his others mechanics, and I think the character would still be playable with 10 HP heals from souls.
-> Wickerbottom : even with her recent nerf, I think she's too strong (and her book very very cheap). She has very strong powers, but no notable downside.

6 characters are fine (no strong rework/rebalance/nerf to do) :
-> Wilson
-> Wendy
-> Wormwood
-> Woodie
-> Wes
-> Webber

[Psychomaniac]

My Wolfgang (and many other chars) still not get the rework he deserve, and you guy here talking about a SECOND rework.

P/s: this guy @Nyr even want to nerf my Wolfgang

[W0l0l0]

1 hour ago, Nyr said:

I imagined a rebalance for him here

I read that post, and you seemed to know what you're talking about, at least way more than me anyways. 

Agree with pretty much all your other points, especially Wortox, Walter, Willow, and Wolfgang. 

[Karitha]

5 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Wormwood is in no means a bad character. I feel like a lot of people assume that's the argument that's being made, but most of the time it isn't. Truth is, Wormwood is far stronger than ever before. My, and others, complaint is that he basically lost his farming niche due to how easily replicatable most of his perks are. Which is a huge shame

 

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I kinda just want Wurt to be able to get Royal Merm armor and weapons from possibly trading with her own Merm King for them, that she can equip regular old naturally spawning Merms with- I get that this kinda defeats the purpose of crafting her Merm Guard tower thing (whatever it’s called) BUT what it would do is allow me to suit them up in head gear, body armor and maybe a tentacle spike or royal spear? Making naturally spawning Merm shacks even more useful to her then they already are.

Special trading for swamp items?

YES PLEASE.

Also what about an attack/watch tower that could throw stones/darts on enemies which be active when a king alive? 

[Nyr]

2 hours ago, Psychomaniac said:

My Wolfgang (and many other chars) still not get the rework he deserve, and you guy here talking about a SECOND rework.

Every Wigfrid / Willow player :

[Theukon-dos]

18 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

In my opinion this isn't a problem with Winona, this is a problem with players. Winona's catapults are really fun and interesting just to mess around with, and I'm 100% sure there's tons of farms you could make using them, but it's the players who decided that the catapults are only ever supposed to be used ever for the two bosses they're "meta" against. Klei gave us an interesting new tool in Winona's rework, everyone found the very few situations where they're the most meta option, and then collectively stopped experimenting with them in favor of saying they're not useful enough (while simultaneously too overpowered?)

Admittedly I exaggerated a bit. But the point still stands.

 

Winona's catapults may be strong, but there's never a reason to play as Winona once you get them built.

 

I could build dozens of farms as Winona with her catapults. But they'll still function perfectly once I swap back to Warly to get all his benefits.

[Scrimbles]

Walter is a mish mash of different good ideas that all feel underdeveloped. Theres a lot of directions he could be taken, from a "Boy and his Dog" type theme, to a nature scout, or a ranged fighter, but hes just a lukewarm mix of all of them.

Wurt is a concept that fails to be truly fleshed out and interesting, shes basically just pigs 2.0. She is a vegetarian, but has no unique interactions with that diet. It would be interesting to see Wurt get some farming merms, especially now with the farming rework, and some fishing merms + unique fish buffs for her allies. Maybe Klei could also just admit she is a goat too

Winona'a unique perk is basically just the catapults, and theres notging about them that feel like they are tailor made for Winonas gameplay, they could easily have been made craftable by all characters and no one would know the difference. Her generator cant be used in any deep or creative ways, her tape is *good*, but not really that important, and her spotlights are frankly terrible.

 

I would say... Winona deserves a rework the most, Wurt and Walter atleast have some good upsides only THEY can use, but Winona becomes invalidated the moment character swapping comes into play.

 

Forgot to mention Wicker, shes in the same boat as Winona, both lack any core features which make THEM unique characters unto themselves, they both just have crafts that accomplish general tasks that everyone would benefit from equally. Atleast Wicker (and max) are the only ones able to use the books.

[Mysterious box]

Wormwood in my opinion feels complete in every sense even his wild crop planting is still useful yes it's normally not as useful as a farm plot but it's the ideal way to make a forget me not farm and great for off loading alot of seeds in the very early game to find crops rare to that season and assuming the people farming are doing so with the intention of getting seeds back from every crop they grow your always going to have a crop surplus so he can be useful for off loading the over spill without the usual tilling. Also wormwood being able to use rot to is more of a boon than people think sure it's not as good in combat but it gives wormwood easy access to a high stacking healing source making it easier for him to make use of living logs for himself without going out of his way to get a wortox, sleep, or a stockpile of meds people often forget that he can mass produce traps fairly easily.

As for Walter I feel like he does what kiel set out to do he gives you options to speed up interactions with his kit like hunting fleeing mobs or attacking bishops from safety just to name a afew and he rewards skillful play with his perks being big time savers if you can fight and survive well or his sanity being a massive time waster if you can't again I don't particularly see him as a noob friendly character as new players usually become very afraid to fight when they find out his downside I'd say the title goes to Wendy.

As far as Warly goes from what I've seen alot more people are playing Warly as of this update and newer players are experimenting more often with dishes now more than ever so his downside while still a issue for some seems to have become easier for less experienced players to manage I do like the idea of improving his buff durations but honestly i feel he's fine as is as even his less popular dishes are seeing use now

[4 Da LOLs]

Winona, her downside is both unavoidable and negligible it doesn't really reward you for keeping a play style it just softly punishes you for stuff you have to do its just not a good feeling and also most of her strength is from using catapults so there really isn't a good reason to play her which is a shame because there are some really good ideas for a factory worker / mechanic

also Warly just because I like him but he just can't reliably solo because he can't get health and sanity as efficient like +5 sanity on each not recently eaten crock pot dish would be great

[Chubbylicious]

On 12/21/2020 at 3:57 PM, thegreatJash said:

Just my opinion, but Wortox is one of the most fun characters to play, he is the opposite of bland. Winona is bland, so are her skins, so was her rework, so I agree with you there.

I agree with you here. He's overpowered, but sincerely... as overpowered are WX, Wolfgang and Wicker (yeah, she is still pretty strong) but I don't see people bragging about them nearly as much.

He can look bland for those who don't play him, but he has a rather interesting role in the game: the only healer we have until now. People contantly say about how easy it is to take souls from rabbits/butterflies and such, but it's also very easy to drop them. And of course, when you die... they're all gone. Remeber, some people play caves only and they ony have spiders as a easy soul resource.

I think his downgrades could be upgraded? Yes. But it's simply unfair to downgrade him while The Triad is left untouched.

Also, he has a sanity problem, can't trade with the Pig King, befriend any non hostile mobs (with the exception of beefalos, but tey can't be exactly befriended) and don't drop souls instantly (with the exception of those who uses mods_. His souls will always cover space in his inventory and he's constanty hungry and have all the foods stats divided by 2.

What I would suggest: give him 100 sanity, like Webber. And that's all. Maybe making his souls heal 10-15, but they already heal less when next to other players, so it would be kind of the same anyway.

Wolfgang can have a potato as his favorite food, which heals and fullfills him extremely fast. Wortox has pomegranades as his favorite food, he gets 13 or 15 OF HUNGER FOR THEM. But of course, Wortox is the problem 

[Maybe a dog]

Honestly, Wortox is powerful, but he needs to be powerful. His halved benefits from food make it a massive drain on resources, so he needs to balance between food and souls. Making souls harder to get means cutting away one half of his food source with no alternatives. Decreasing his healing would mean weakening his role as support, which is his only team-benefit (and he already is a drain of food as I mentioned before). His soul hopping is fine too. Amazing for cave mobility (the only other having that is Walter) and good potential for dodging during fights.

If you try to nerf Wortox, then that would mean an entire rework would be needed. An entire rework for a character that can pull its own weight and was designed with the Together concept in mind seems kinda unnecessary in my opinion. And, yes, Im fine with Wortox as he is.

--

Walter doesnt need a rework, he just needs minor number changes and he would be perfect.