Who Needs Second Rework?

[Chubbylicious]

15 hours ago, Nyr said:

3 characters could be rebalanced (the character flaws/perks are not balanced, or he suffers from DST mechanics) :

-> WX-78 : the gears are very scarce in DST, and as he looses half of his gears upon death it makes every death very very punitive (and that's strange for a noob-friendly character). So he's often played without ameliorations, just for eating stale food and charging mechanic. I think Klei should really rethink his relation with gears !

 

I disagree with your take about WX, the ruins reset once you kill Fuelweaver, so gears are obtainable, even if late game. Being fully upgraded, he's the character with the most health in the game. I believe he should have been put in the op category.

13 minutes ago, Maybe a dog said:

Honestly, Wortox is powerful, but he needs to be powerful. His halved benefits from food make it a massive drain on resources, so he needs to balance between food and souls. Making souls harder to get means cutting away one half of his food source with no alternatives. Decreasing his healing would mean weakening his role as support, which is his only team-benefit (and he already is a drain of food as I mentioned before). His soul hopping is fine too. Amazing for cave mobility (the only other having that is Walter) and good potential for dodging during fights.

If you try to nerf Wortox, then that would mean an entire rework would be needed. An entire rework for a character that can pull its own weight and was designed with the Together concept in mind seems kinda unnecessary in my opinion. And, yes, Im fine with Wortox as he is.

--

Walter doesnt need a rework, he just needs minor number changes and he would be perfect.

Please, can I call you to have lunch with me?

You said wxactly what I wanted, but was too heated to say coerently.

[maciu67]

I'm surprised Willow got so few votes.

[Yuuko]

9 hours ago, maciu67 said:

I'm surprised Willow got so few votes.

I really like Willow in her current form.  Bernie is a great companion, the only way to counter shadow monsters, and quite tanky!  The lighter lets her avoid crafting torches early game, and can be used in a pinch to cook on.  It becomes forgotten after the first season but that's okay.  Fire immunity can be fun if you like playing around with it.  I do ^_^

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I really like Willow in her current form.  Bernie is a great companion, the only way to counter shadow monsters, and quite tanky!  The lighter lets her avoid crafting torches early game, and can be used in a pinch to cook on.  It becomes forgotten after the first season but that's okay.  Fire immunity can be fun if you like playing around with it.  I do ^_^

The fire immunity thing is great to help Willow over come her used to be downside (being cold/winter) all a Willow player needs to do is get a nice singled out tree and use her lighter to burn it then stand in the fire holding Bernie, correct me if I am wrong (haven’t played Willow in awhile) but I believe this also increases her sanity right?

Either way it is so much fun to stand in the center of a small controlled group of burning trees during a hound wave, is it the most effective thing ever? Maybe not.. but it’s something Willow can do and it’s fun to watch hounds try to get to you.

[Wizli]

 

On 12/23/2020 at 2:06 AM, maciu67 said:

I'm surprised Willow got so few votes.

Willow definitely needs some fire power. But she is sort of a Wilson

[Gi-Go]

All of them to some extent. 

[Karitha]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:27 AM, Mike23Ua said:

The fire immunity thing is great to help Willow over come her used to be downside

Yes but most of upside of her is about her. She can not give much to team

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Slagger said:

Yes but most of upside of her is about her. She can not give much to team

shadow protection with bernies arround the base

[Karitha]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

shadow protection with bernies arround the base

Yeah but not more than sanity to be honest. In my opinion that's not so much. Also I don't talk about her dangerous powers too. At least her lighters' fire should not spread.

[ShadowDuelist]

Since balance is on the subject I always wondered why Wortox has 200 hp. Wouldn’t make more sense if he had normal, or even less than normal, something like 100 HP?

What I see over and over about Wortox players is that they just don’t heal others, either because they don’t know who needs healing, or because there’s no incentive for them to.

Wortox currently can’t see who needs healing and who doesn’t, also he’s super tanky both for being a healer AND having tank HP pool tier.

If he had less HP it would probably force them to use souls on healing more often. It could also work that when they heal others (not just healing next to others that are probably at full HP, I mean actually restoring lost hp to someone else) get bonus healing on themselves, or gets a tiny bonus on hunger drain for themselves (EG: 25% less hunger drain for 2 minutes, the timer resets again every time they heal someone)

[Yuuko]

 

5 hours ago, Slagger said:

Yes but most of upside of her is about her. She can not give much to team

Willow's perk with Bernie protecting from shadow creatures is a great boon to the team.  Someone comes running into base low sanity with a pair of terrorbeaks after them Bernie is on the job!  Wicker wants to spam read books?  Wormwood needed to chop trees?  Deerclops taking a bit too long and you really want to ditch those two terrorbeaks she made?  Just leaving a few of these on the ground in base is GREAT (The perks aren't bad just because YOU don't like them.  And don't take a good perk and gripe about "pick and switch" either b/c that's just how things will be.  Its not a problem just because YOU have a problem with it.)

[Mike23Ua]

It’s hilarious that Two reworks later Winona still has the most votes. Poor Winona.. this would be here third rework wouldn’t it?  

[Yuuko]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s hilarious that Two reworks later Winona still has the most votes. Poor Winona.. this would be here third rework wouldn’t it?  

I think Winona will never look good when anyone can access the flingo.  Think about it.

Flingo: Each nitre fuels for 20%, full fuel tank lasts 5 days.  Has an on / off switch.  Can be fueled with any burnable.

Generator: Each nitre fuels for 50%, full fuel tank lasts 1 day.  No on / off switch.  Can ONLY be fueled with nitre.

For a skilled builder who invents her own gadgets with a love of all things mechanical she seems to be outdone by everyone else...  You'd think her inventions would outclass what other investigators do but nop :\ *sadface*

Minimal changes to avoid rework - improve efficiency to match flingo with 5 days capacity and 1 nitre per day consumption, with an on / off switch.  GEMerator should be luxury with like 5 days supply per gem and with an off switch.

[CarlZalph]

Most of the characters are good for early game in some aspect.

 

Winona doesn't fit well for early game at all, requiring a lot of item investment to do things.

The biggest issue I see is that Winona is one of those swap-and-swap-back characters where in the mid/late game you go to play as her only for the crafting stuff and then swap back.  There's low incentive to play in the long term as her with the gate being a thing.

 

Other character is Wurt.  A bunch of okay things but nothing super great, and also a late game character with requiring sea stuff and massive boards for crafting the merm army.  In the early game provides little to the team.

 

Since I see Walter is #3 currently with the polls, at least he has the ability to peg off birds early game with golden shots and amass morsels/gold/feathers for the team, and get more chances at that 1% krampus sack early.  He's a passive character for combat but gets the bonus of free chester/mount and ranged.  Getting hit is punishing and not something I'd like to see changed.  He doesn't grow stronger in the end game, but he also doesn't really diminish in value either thanks to Woby.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

Other character is Wurt.  A bunch of okay things but nothing super great, and also a late game character with requiring sea stuff and massive boards for crafting the merm army.  In the early game provides little to the team.

i think is good to have variety. There is good characters for short and casual game sesion because of how good is their early and other characters to have a long term world

also, she can use merms from the swamp all day for seeds/berries/whatever to farm boards easily and quick and then make a war to get the fishes needed

[Mysterious box]

14 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

 

Other character is Wurt.  A bunch of okay things but nothing super great, and also a late game character with requiring sea stuff and massive boards for crafting the merm army.  In the early game provides little to the team.

 

 

For all her faults fault not being a early game character isn't one of them as soon as you have access to the swamp wurt can farm rocks and wood faster than both woodie and maxwell as well as being able to offer the entire team access to this ability as well wurt doesn't specifically need the merm king or guards as most people only use their fighting aspects for bossing anyway.

[Mysterious box]

As far as willow is concerned I feel like minor tweaks would be nice like

-allow willow to shrink Bernie! If needed

-allow willow to repair Bernie! Mid combat

-while I don't need a don't think he needs a full on life bar it'd be nice how hurt he is mid combat like maybe a visual change or something when he hits below 30% hp

 

About the mid combat repair they could make it half as effect like only 50% heal as Bernie!

[Yuuko]

32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

As far as willow is concerned I feel like minor tweaks would be nice like

-allow willow to shrink Bernie! If needed

-allow willow to repair Bernie! Mid combat

-while I don't need a don't think he needs a full on life bar it'd be nice how hurt he is mid combat like maybe a visual change or something when he hits below 30% hp

 

About the mid combat repair they could make it half as effect like only 50% heal as Bernie!

idk, since you can craft multiple of them I think its okay to not know Bernie's health or be able to heal him.  Just drop another.  If I had a mod running that exposed this information I doubt it would change anything of how I play.

If you could heal him during combat - because of his taunt - it would be too easy to keep him going :\  There should be some risk.

It would help to shrink him on command - but I wouldn't put it in the "needs" category.  In fact, I wouldn't put anything in the "needs" category for Willow.  She's my favorite character and nothing is missing from her flavor.  She does plenty for the team, plenty for herself, and hasn't lost any attitude that makes her awesome <3 

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

idk, since you can craft multiple of them I think its okay to not know Bernie's health or be able to heal him.  Just drop another.  If I had a mod running that exposed this information I doubt it would change anything of how I play.

If you could heal him during combat - because of his taunt - it would be too easy to keep him going :\  There should be some risk.

It would help to shrink him on command - but I wouldn't put it in the "needs" category.  In fact, I wouldn't put anything in the "needs" category for Willow.  She's my favorite character and nothing is missing from her flavor.  She does plenty for the team, plenty for herself, and hasn't lost any attitude that makes her awesome <3 

I agree man- I played Willow and had like 6 Bernie’s in my inventory and each time one died I’d throw out another and repair the dead ones. I set these up in a circular order around bosses and was able to let Bernie (Well Bernies) do most the fight for Me- fun times  And as for shrinking/ growing on command I always carry around my portable lighter that cooks food on the go- and various types of cooked/uncooked foods that raise & lower sanity.

I don’t think she would be as fun if I could just command Bernie to shrink or grow, I love how it’s actually tied to how sane (or Insane) Willow is. 

[Mysterious box]

I get where your both coming from and i can concede the last 2 points but I find that sometimes even when you get your sanity up Bernie! Can linger for abit and while it isn't a deal breaker it'd be great if he'd atleast follow her into caves or wormholes.

[Karitha]

I really wasn't excepted that results for Winona. It's crazy to see that much people don't like her current situation.

[Azamagon]

Some thoughts on the characters (regardless wether it's about their first or second rework or whatever):

Wilson - I feel, despite being the basic starting character, he's lacking a bit. Just some small unique craftables that eludes to his "mad scientist" style would be nice. Some of the items from the Mad Scientist Lab (like Lunar Experiment and Arboretum Experiment) are the kind of things that would fit him nicely. Could also be potions that heals you over time, at the cost of sanity over time (and vice versa). Stuff like that.

Wolfgang - Too simplisticly strong. Some rebalancing on his Mightiness and hunger, along with alluding to his Strongman side of things would be nice; Like carrying heavy objects far more easily (maybe even able to toss them a short distance?) and dumbbells and other various weight-lifting items to sustain his Mightniess could add some flavour too. And maybe make his "cowardice" more noticeable (i.e. make him lose way more sanity from all sanity-drains, and maybe even make him scared of things (i.e lose sanity from) which other characters don't lose sanity from?)

WX-78  I think the eating gears thing is a heavily missed opportunity to make him more unique: That being to make him "modular", considering his robotic nature. So instead of permanently consuming gears to gain statboosts, I could see him instead having a number (say 5) of unique equipment slots, modulation slots, in which he could place (and freely swap and/or remove) either gears or gems for different statboosts and/or effects. This would still keep him as a simple and noob-friendly character, but with some added depth to make him more interesting and flexible.
He also need more noticeable downsides related to water (more damage from wetness, and maybe an added sanity-drain while out on the ocean?)

Wes - While he's supposed to be more of a challenge character, I still think he has the potential to be unique with "Mimeomancy"! Basicly, being able to do most actions (like chopping trees, mining stones, rowing boats etc) WITHOUT the tool at hand, at the cost of sanity instead. Just a thought.

Maxwell - As @Nyr mentioned, having Maxwell, this shadowy king, to basicly just be a master lumberjack feels really weird to say the least. He has SO much potential to feel more like a "shadowy stage magician" kind of character. I can see him having unique magical craftables, such as:

• Puppeteer Hand - Allows you to, at the cost of some sanity and some of this item's durability, make an ally from a non-boss enemy for X duration.
• Magical Playing Cards - Mostly for the aesthetic of the item, it could be used for many different things, of which I'm not sure. Random ideas popping up are: Perform a trick which boosts sanity of nearby allies; Randomized effects on enemies (fear, burn, damage, freeze, wetness etc). I dunno, it could do all kinds of weird stuff.
• Bunny in a Hat - Some kind of personal two-way-portal device, perhaps?

Stuff like that. Allude to the stage magician and the shadowy stuff at the same time.
Also, how the Shadow Puppets work in the single player version (I have not played it myself, this is from what I have read), in that they you make "generic" puppets which replicate your actions, (in contrast to DST where you summon different types for specific tasks), sounds much more interactive and fun to me.

Winona - Aside from her current structures, I feel she fits perfectly as the kind of character which could make various engineer-level machinery (considering her unique tab is called Engineering after all). For example;

• Note: None of these are particularly serious ideas, they are more examples of what I'm hinting at:
  • Crude vehidles - Think oldstyle Motorcycle Trikes - which require specific fuel (which she also only knows how to make), as an alternative to using Beefalos and their "food-fuel", heh.
  • Mannable ranged turrets and their ammunition.
  • Throwable explosives.
  • Musical apparatus (such as a gramophone?) - Could automate happiness in farms, and work as a sanity-aura for nearby survivors.

The remaining cast also needs fixes and tweaks, but those were the ones i had more specific ideas and thoughts on.

[Mike23Ua]

You can’t count Wilson, Wolfgang, WX78, Webber, Wes, Wickerbottom, or Maxwell because NONE of those have had their Rework yet- So they aren’t even eligible for a Second Rework yet.

Winona has already had a second Rework: But as this poll shows people still vote her as the character most in need of it.

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

You can’t count Wilson, Wolfgang, WX78, Webber, Wes, Wickerbottom, or Maxwell because NONE of those have had their Rework yet- So they aren’t even eligible for a Second Rework yet.

wow, glad you deduced why they weren't options on the poll.

[UnknowX]

I have some ideas to rework/rebalance winning to make her more interesting and not just a switch character:

Winona QOL/ adjust: an interesting character who has struggle to find her true calling/ defining characteristic to make her truly appealing. And now she is the engineer/builder of the group. But still lacks some defining characteristics to make people want to keep playing with her, instead of just switching from her after building her unique crafts, so I think she needs a few changes to round her up.

- It's a skilled builder: a few tweaks to make it more interesting. At 80-100% hunger she would have speed crafting like she does now (0,5 seconds per craft). At 50-79% hunger her crafting speed would be normal, but this lack of efficiency would cost her -5 sanity per craft. At 0-49% hunger, she would craft slower than normal, and this would depress her to the point of  draining her sanity by -20 per craft.

- Gets one free hit from the dark: stays the same

- has a negative relation with fire: based on some of her quote lines, she hates fire and the destruction it causes it causes. So as a new down side for her, when structures (natural resources like trees or saplings don't count) caught fire near her, her sanity would drop by -10 a minute by each structure in flames (smoldering doesn't count). Burnt structures have a similar effect, so get rid of them quickly

- Invents her own gadgets: here is where she should shine the most. Some of her gadgets need some improvement, and other gadgets to make her more appealing to other players.

~ trusty tape (1 silk + 3 cut grass): her defining craft, currently it works as a item for her other crafts and one use sewing kit, but cheaper and more resource efficient. It now can also be used to stop leaks on boats. I think it should get some new uses exclusive to Winona, like been able to repair armor, weapons and tools durability (non magical of course) with tape and then they would be given the "taped" tag. This would restore items to 100% once. Also, fixing things with her trusty tape would give her +5 sanity per taped item.

~ Gold wires (2 gold + 1 tape): this would be a new craft for her, and one of the new items to make/ improve some of her new crafts. As a bonus, it can also be used to fix broken clockworks.

~ Winona's road (2 cut stone + 2 gold wires + 2 boards): it a turf that work like cobblestones (gives same speed boost and has same priority placement) but also has the benefit of conducting electricity from both generators, allowing a single generator to power a higher area of devices.

~ Winona's Generator (1 tape + 2 logs + 2 nitre): works mostly the same, but changing the recipe to 2 gold wires + 2 boards + 2 nitre, also, you can turn it off to save energy (shown by unplugging one of the wires at the top). Now they atract lightning like lightning rods do, but will explode if hit it, so put a lightning rods around to protect from it.

~ Winona's G.E.M.eretor (1 tape + 2 boards + 2 electric doodad) works mostly the same, but changing the recipe to 3 gold wire + 2 boards + 2 electric doodad, also, you can turn it of by to save energy (shown by unplugging one of the wires at he top. Now they atract lightning like lightning rods do, but will explode if hit it, so put a lightning rods around to protect from it.

~ Winona's catapult (1 tape + 3 twigs + 15 rocks): an amazing structure, maybe too amazing actually. The only change I would make would be changing the recipe to 2 gears + 5 cut stone + 3 tape, to balance it out. Maybe even having to load the catapult with rocks stacks for them to work, 1 rocks = 5 shot, so a stack equals 200 shots. Not a bad deal huh?

~ Winona's spotlight (1 tape + 2 gold + 1 fireflies): let's face it, it's usefulness is quite limited since it only illuminates moving players. To change a little, first the recipe, now it's 1 lantern + 2 gold wires + 4 boards, second, the light radious includes the whole cone of light it produces. and third it would have two modes; stationary (you cold move it and keep it in a fix position) and lookout (similar to what it is now, but would iluminate the fastest moving mob/ entity outside of a certain area of itself).

~ Winona's lamppost (1 lantern + 2 gold wires + 3 twigs): a stationary light source, similar to glow caps, but neads a generator to power it.

~ Winona's paddlewheels (5 boards + 2  electric doodad + 5 tape) an item that can be installed on a boat to allow movement and quick turns. But carefull with crashing at full speed, it could destroy your boat in one hit.