"This feels like a modded character!!!" (A General Character Discussion)

[GuyNamedChris]

Why does everyone persist on using "[character] feels like a modded character, change them!" as an argument? I don't get it.

Y'all have been saying the exact same thing about almost everyone since Wormwood was released for Hamlet, but you guys came to like him over time when he got normalized in a standard DST world. Some people even said "Wormwood feels like a modded character, but in a good way." It's just too broad and generic of a claim. 

What I'm saying is, if you guys are going to persist on criticizing Walter's perks, or anyone's, could you explain why?
Cause I like him! And I don't understand anybody's points when they say he feels modded. His campfire stories and dog companion feel like small add-ons, but I think it's fitting. All the little perks come together to help Walter feel like a true boy scout character. It's not simple like how the DS characters were before, but I think that's fine. Personally, I think Walter fits in well with how Klei's been handling the current character rebalances for DST.

(That's not to say he's perfect, he's still got some on-release annoyances like not being able to refuel a large Woby, and the Cursed Pellets not always spawning tentacles, but that could always be fixed and doesn't take away from his character.)

I got off-track: What do you guys mean when you say "This feels modded." about the recent characters?

[Hornete]

I think because as time has gone on many perks and downsides have been experimented on by modded characters and the moment an official character has a perk a bit related to a modded character(E.g. Walker and Walter, both have dog companions but are vastly mechanically different) people just say "oh it feels like a modded character"

I bet ya', if the original cast of characters weren't released until today people would still be using that "it feels like a modded character" argument.

[sudoku]

 I don't know if I'd say he feels like a modded character exactly but I will say I can understand why people would say that. Like a lot of mod characters he has a lot of perks and very few downsides, or downsides that can almost be ignored completley, and those perks, rather than being chosen to develop a unique playstyle for a character, instead seem to exist because it's thematic or looks cool.

[Squirrel12]

I have my own reasons why he feels like a mod character:

- His ammo: This might be unpopular because I've not heard anyone say this, but his ammo feels very much like something from a mod character because it's just magic rocks. Magic rocks that have similar powers to already existing items in the game, like freezing and tentacles. So if feels like a mod in how it's re-using assets and effects previously seen in the game.  

- Bee Allergy: The lack of an animation makes it feel like a mod to me. I thought that when Warly was stung, he'd get puffy, but no...Instead, bees just do more damage. Feels cheap.

- Woby: Probably the most popular reason. Firstly, it feels like a "Pet Mod", that gives you a cute follower that magically has an inventory like Chester. It's a re-hash of Willow's Bernie, because it's a small and cute creature that turns big and monster-like to help you (which is a concept that gets done to death in mods). 

- Sanity: Sanity downsides tends to be the immediate go-to for most modded characters.

[Owlrust]

While I am all for Walter in every aspect of him, I can understand why people think he feels like a modded character you would find on the workshop and here's a few reasons why:

• Modded characters often don't add anything large to the game that didn't already have animations or similar components to them. For example, Willow gets a stuffed bear named bernie that, when transformed, turns into a fully animated and newly-designed entity. Walter has some of these aspects such as Woby's transformation and his slingshot; but I will admit that many aspects seem carried over from other entities such as the Vargling and the Beefalo.
• Modded characters often have smaller perks that are added in excess, and most of the time, they revolve around sanity; it is not uncommon to see a mod character have perks like: eating gives you sanity, being around bees gives you sanity, darkness gives you sanity and light makes you lose sanity, having rocks in your inventory makes you lose sanity, etc. Walter is not much different in that aspect as a majority of his perks revolve around it (IE: Doesn't lose sanity from anything but being hurt, gains sanity from telling stories, gains sanity from being around trees, and loses sanity over time when his health is low.
• As much as I love Klei, I will have to admit that he doesn't really bring anything (other than his slingshot) that adds something we haven't seen before in a modded character.

So in conclusion, a lot of the reasons why people think he feels like a modded character is because his design mimics a lot of the designs on the workshop, with around the same level of originality. This however will not stop me from enjoying every second of his gameplay, and I implore others to both enjoy his kit and be aware that he very well might change in the oncoming week.

[GuyNamedChris]

1 minute ago, Hornete said:

I bet ya', if the original cast of characters weren't released until today people would still be using that "it feels like a modded character" argument.

This argument especially holds true for Wickerbottom: An old woman that can call instantly grow plants, spawn birds and tentacles, and call down the wrath of the gods at the cost of sanity, but you simply can't sleep or eat stale food? People would like be raising a ruckus about Wickerbottom if she were just released today.

1 minute ago, sudoku said:

Like a lot of mod characters he has a lot of perks and very few downsides

That's the thing though! His unique sanity isn't exactly a downside that could be ignored at all (unlike Wickerbottom). Like it or not, you're gonna get hit in DST, and if you're not wearing Walter's scout hat, you lose like half your sanity in a single hard hit. People are drawing assumptions about the character without actually playing as him first.

1 minute ago, Squirrel12 said:

I have my own reasons why he feels like a mod character:

- His ammo: This might be unpopular because I've not heard anyone say this, but his ammo feels very much like something from a mod character because it's magic rocks. Magic rocks that do things that are similar to effects or almost exactly the same of the effect of already existing items, 

- Bee Allergy: The lack of an animation makes it feel like a mod. I thought that when Walter was stung, he'd get puffy, but no...Instead bees just do more damage.

That's valid! Thanks for explaining. His ammo could've honestly been put in the Fight tab alongside his slingshot, but everyone's getting a custom tab lately so I think it's fine.
And it'd be cool if he had a quote for when he gets stung by bees to remind people of his allergy, I wouldn't say it needs an animation necessarily.

[ButterStuffed]

People probably got the "modded" feeling from how many abilities he has compared to the original cast which all had a fairly simple theme and set of abilities. Where if you look at like 90% of the mods on the workshop have a similarly bloated amount of abilities. If you look at his abilities in the character select he literally uses up the most space in his character description compared to any other character.

Not that it's necessarily a bad thing. I quite like the increased amount of differences in characters like the favorite foods, and the increased complexity in the reworked/new characters. It adds a little bit of lore for each character.

[Squirrel12]

2 minutes ago, Chris1448 said:

That's valid! Thanks for explaining. His ammo could've honestly been put in the Fight tab alongside his slingshot, but everyone's getting a custom tab lately so I think it's fine.

I don't mind the new inventory slot at all. My issue is just that the ammo itself is just another "generic magical item" that has freezing effects or shadow things, despite there not being anything magical about his character. I wanted more interesting ammunition personally that fitted his character, like flaming pine cones or bee mines.

5 minutes ago, Chris1448 said:

And it'd be cool if he had a quote for when he gets stung by bees to remind people of his allergy, I wouldn't say it needs an animation necessarily.

I feel like this is more of a missed opportunity. I would personally like to see a mechanic where you go puffy because of your allergies and you have to wobble (making your movement slower or something).

Also, sorry, I added two more reasons why I felt like he's a mod character. 

[ADM]

I guess the hole thing around "mod characters" is when a character is not focused on 2-3 precise trails like we've been used to.

hey, it's not like modded characters are always like this but mods are often reviewed to denaturalise the BASE game by some players

However, like all other reworks and recent characters added, they've all got through this argument cause there were nothing similar or comparable before, except some mods. Wendy rework maybe feels like mods cause she have a custom badge for Abigail like many modded chars, a custom tab, unique building and... wait that's a lot of trails isn't it ? But Klei for some reasons made her description only 3 trails long, it could have been way longer if you think of it. While Walter could use a shorter one like : • Is a pioneer • not scared much • have a pew pew and doggo...

... yeah this sounds just meme or dumb, so Klei wanted to try something different but players noticed it and got scared.

So there's not much to say, there will always be peoples against change on every topic and especially video games, but as long you like it on your own you just better ignore this, those aren't feedbacks or suggestions, just complains.

[sudoku]

7 minutes ago, Chris1448 said:

 

That's the thing though! His unique sanity isn't exactly a downside that could be ignored at all (unlike Wickerbottom). Like it or not, you're gonna get hit in DST, and if you're not wearing Walter's scout hat, you lose like half your sanity in a single hard hit. People are drawing assumptions about the character without actually playing as him first.

Yes but he gets a cheap craftable tent to heal both his sanity and health while losing less hunger while doing so, not to mention he gets sanity regen from trees and campfire stories. So his downside is easily solved with his abundance of perks.

[wigfrids hat]

i think he's meant to be a character for beginner players. beginners cannot manage sanity well and are not strong fighters. this set-up teaches them caution and rewards that cautious behavior

 

as for calling new chars modded? it's just the same old issue if binary perception; not exactly like the core cast? totally out of character for the game! too much like the core cast? totally just a reskin!......people are rarely satisfied with something that wasn't tailored for them specifically and so over-reaching statements are used to to open the conversation on why they are actually unhappy. "modded" is just the go-to phrase to explain why it's not a reskin of an existing char without having to put on the table the real concern of the person complaining

[Squirrel12]

Just a thought:

Another reason people are probably feeling this way is because Wortox, due to being one of the most famous unimplemented characters of DS, became a a very popular mod character before he was officially introduced into the DST universe.

Then the second new character, Wurt, shared a lot of similarities to a popular mod character "Womp, The Abyssal".

So maybe that explains why those two specifically felt like "modded characters".

(I love Wortox btw)

 

[Pikapikap]

I think that when he uses a slingshot to attack, the speed is a bit slow. Maybe he should increase his attack speed, and when he uses a slingshot to attack, he can’t cancel the attack action. Sometimes this is very dangerous, and some of his ammunition types are really effective. It's  useless.(like the magic potion when Wendy first reset) I think maybe Klei will make some changes and balance this week. Maybe it's like doing it for Wendy and Woodie.

[Theukon-dos]

While the spesific reasons vary from person to person, generally speaking, It's due to the fact that Walter has a large group of loosely connected perks as opposed to a single defining perk or theme and a tightly-knit kit based around it.. This practice is often associated with the Myrad of low-quality workshop characters and, while there are some good characters that can come out of it, It often leads to characters that can feel a bit disjointed and ill-designed. Just as an example, let's compare Walter, Peak character design Wigfrid, And this one "Eyeboll" character I found on the workshop

                     WIGFRID                                                            WALTER                                                                  EYEBOLL

Has 25% increased damage and resistance                   Has a portable tent                                                     Is fast but weak

Has 2 craftable items to aid her in battle                     Has a custom slingshot,                               Gains extra damage when below 50 san.
                                                                       7 custom ammo types, and a custom tent                           Cries when below 25 san.      

                   Only eats meat                                        Is immune to insanity auras,                                Is weak to Stale, Spoiled,

                                                                                                                                                                        and monster foods

                                                                              But looses sanity when hit and hurt                         Doesn't loose sanity from raw meat

                                                                            Doesn't Gain sanity from dapperness                         Gains sanity from Fish and Sushi

                                                                               Looses less hunger from sleeping                                   Is immune to charlie

                                                                                     Gains sanity from trees                                      Less effected by darkness insanity

                                                                                             cooks faster                                                               Can dodge           
                                                                                           Allergic to bees                                                    has 5 Custom bandaids               

                                                                                         Has a free chester 
                                                                     Can feed Woby monster meat for a free beefalo
                                                                                   Can tell campfire stories

 

As can be seen, Walter's perk list is way more similar to the modded character's, even surpassing it in sheer bloat. Wigfrid, meanwhile, Is a much more neatly tied package. she's good at fighting, can craft 2 items that help her fight, And only eats meat. A simple character that, Despite being almost entirely outclassed by wolfgang, has managed to Dominate the pub meta for years up until Wendy's rework. She has a strong direction, a strong execution, and is a strong character.  Walter has over 4x the amount of perks that Wigfrid does, and likely won't end up being nearly as memorable as her.

[Serph]

As someone who likes checking out mod characters out curiosity, i can kinda see what people mean. 

1-Unnecessarily "weird" stats: (why does he even have 110 hunger and 130 hp???)
2-Powers that come across as random (lose less hunger from sleeping? weak to bees? what?)
3-Powers that are fairly overused in mods (ranged weapon, free overpowered pet, unique hat that mitigates weakness,etc)
4-Too much stuff at once! (faster cooking? sanity from trees? story telling for sanity AT NO COST? Isnt that an actual superpower?)
5-He disobeys a core mechanic for NO reason (his brain literally doesnt function like the other characters and it makes no sense)
6-He offers pratically nothing new to the game other than being a "ranged fighter", which in itself sounds like a mod character

I always wanted an official ranged/support type of character but he doesnt help the team enough and i personally hate his sanity system. I bet most newbies and casual players will simply ignore the majority of his mechanics and spend all day killing birds and bunnies.

[minespatch]

9 minutes ago, Serph said:

-Unnecessarily "weird" stats: (why does he even have 110 hunger and 130 hp???)

I remember when my friends asked me why my skeledork mod(when it ever gets finished) has such low stats: there ya go.

[JJ0264]

I kinda wish his portable tent, scout hat and slingshot - were all in Walters tab

Walters major perks (others aren't important)

+ Slingshot & ammo

+ Woby (chester x beefalo)

+ immunity to insanity auras

- lose sanity from being hit and from having less than 110 hp

- NOT THE BEEZ (2x piercing damage from bees)

[Harrowick]

I think all the """loose""" perks should just be bunched together as "camping". He's a boy scout, so faster cooking/less hunger drain in tents/campfire stories/portable tent makes complete sense. If you dissect each and every perk and list them out individually, yeah, they're gonna start looking plentiful, but categorized, they all synergize well as a complete package.

Besides, the original cast was originally made in what, 2013? They didn't even have perks up until the strange new powers update. Is it really a surprise that characters will have more to offer 7 entire years later?

[Mike23Ua]

I may get banned from these forums for saying this, (and it this point I wouldn’t care if I did because you guys make me feel really sad for Klei..) But those of you playing on A PC and using mods have become heavily blinded & completely spoiled....

You see this as a “Whaaa it’s a mod character!” Meanwhile people playing over on consoles see this as a brand new totally unique playable character with really unique skills & personality.

You shouldn’t criticize Klei’s work for giving you access to making mods & you becoming less grateful for the work they DO Put out because to you it feels like a Mod.  

[me real life]

It's silly. The original characters were so simple and bland, that now anything that's unique and original is labeled as being too much like a "mod character."

Thankfully I feel like this complaint is going to be seen as sillier and sillier over time, as the stuff people are comparing to mods becomes more and more common in the official game. Consider pocket scale quotes, for example, we can have any character say "Weight: (exact number)" by weighing a fish, which stands out as very out of place compared to everything that came before us. The thing is, Klei's gonna keep adding things to their videogame, and It's gonna push certain limits more and more. So who's to say what feels official and what feels modded, as the limits get pushed more and more and the line between the two is is blurred?

[GuyNamedChris]

 

14 minutes ago, Lumberlocke said:

I think all the """loose""" perks should just be bunched together as "camping". He's a boy scout, so faster cooking/less hunger drain in tents/campfire stories/portable tent makes complete sense. If you dissect each and every perk and list them out individually, yeah, they're gonna start looking plentiful, but categorized, they all synergize well as a complete package.

^This. A lot of Walter's perks can be listed as a single point and it would look a lot less bloated:
- Has a Slingshot (Includes the custom ammo)
- Has a doggy companion (Includes everything Woby comes with; the inventory+beefalo)
- Isn't scared of much, besides getting hurt (Includes his unique sanity mechanics)
- Isn't much for fashion (Includes his ignorance to sanity clothing/armor)
- Is a dedicated Boy Scout (Includes the cooking, portable tent, campfire stories, hat, etc.)

 

Really the only things I would remove from Walter is his sanity gain from trees, (as it's hardly noticeable and a bit much on top of the sanity you can get from the portable tent and campfire stories), and his bee allergy (since it doesn't make a lot of sense in the first place, and fighting is already enough of a hassle when it ends with Walter being insane half the time).

[gghhrr]

I've played some mod characters in past, I dont like them at all

that's why I don't actually use any mods except geometric placement

 

Walter doesn't look like a mod character IMO

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

...unique skills & personality.

I agree this line, Walter don't bring any really new features to the game, he has unique personality:"fearless"

he is a simple character even you can list his perks in many lines, and most of them are already in-game-features

 

What I've seen is that he might add the brand new fighting style:

Range weapon as main - The Most Forgotten Feature In Don't Starve(&Together) 

the style that many people have been asking in the past

obviously Klei don't really want it to be overpowered, as the result DPS isn't any better than melee

greatest ammo comes with expensive cost, shadow tentacle work best only if there is melee tanking

and his great potent on support with freezing ammo, slow ammo, or poop ammo

 

the only thing to "slightly nerf" for balance is just his tent's cost to craft,

and QOL for Woby's feeding and speed on riding in future

any others are really fine or completely ignored to notice the existence

[Zeklo]

I'm absolutely fine with Klei beefing up characters, because it ultimately makes them more unique and individual. There's only so many basic perks you can do before you just can't make any new characters. That's why a lot of mods already resorted to it, because you'd have to really reach if you wanted to make something unique, fun, and fitting.

The only one thing I find odd about Walter is frankly Woby.

I absolutely adore her don't get me wrong. I love the lore implications, etc etc. But she doesn't really fall into his theme. It's not like Wendy where the gloomy dark-minded child is being haunted by the ghost of her dead sister. Walter is a scout and each of his other perks/cons play into that well, but Woby just feels like something that was tacked on, and could be tacked on to any other character.

[Szczuku]

2 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Woby just feels like something that was tacked on, and could be tacked on to any other character.

That's because... it's exactly that. In his cinematic it is shown that every survivor could've befriended Woby if they offered her some food. Walter was simply the first one to do so.

[Zeklo]

3 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

That's because... it's exactly that. In his cinematic it is shown that every survivor could've befriended Woby if they offered her some food. Walter was simply the first one to do so.

A lore excuse is still an excuse. A pet/mount perk could have been a new character's entire gimmick. Maybe they could befriend other animals like hounds or interact with No-eyed Deer & Volt Goats in new ways. Who knows.

Yet it was tacked on to Walter to give him instant mobile storage & a free easy beefalo. It escapes his theme, and doesn't add a whole lot apart from a shortcut from other mechanics (and a lovable pet of course).

My best guess is that maybe Woby was going to be his dog, but they wanted a way explain the transformation. Who knows. Maybe that would make me be able to digest it better, but probably not. If Woby could be used to sniff out tracks or something—a perk that feeds back into the outdoorsy theme—then I could see it. Just not this.

I still love it. Just find it a bit of an outlier.