How do you deal with electrolyzer heat?

[Mr.Trueba]

3 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

It wasn't an answer, it was a statement - and they are. 

Again, the point I made was part of a larger point - it was hinged on the fact that late game you'll be requiring vast amounts of hydrogen if you plan to go to the furthest reaches of space. Building SPOMS instead of over producing and storing your gasses will mean that all of those cycles that you're preparing to venture to space are essentially wasted time where you could have been preparing a hydrogen buffer.

If that doesn't compute, I can't help you.

1

I don't want your help, no problem, and I think I have nothing to answer either.

I think the so-called SPOMS (although I do not like the name) are a good way for people who do not have 200h + in the game to survive and not drown in heat. It is a system that you build once and forget forever (you literally do not have to change anything again if you do it right at the beginning).
And that you mention that lategame ALL that hydrogen will be needed if not your rockets are going to be useless, I do not think that is true.
The reality is, what percentage of players make liquid hydrogen? Very, very few really.
Most people play a little, survive some cycles and repeat colony.
So I do not know, I would recommend that before you want to answer "noobs questions" to post random building and calling noobs to those who solve the problem in a different way, better help with the basics and understand that not everyone knows half of what you about the game. And that makes them better or worse players? Not at all, only each person plays as he pleases.
In addition, who has already reached the point of needing to make liquid hydrogen, surely already has enough hours of play and knowledge to deal with the lack of hydrogen, and surely their ideas will be better than a large space rectangle with hydrogen at high pressure.

Anyway, this is not an answer, it's just a statement that I thought out loud. Hahaha

[Hellshound38]

8 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

Sorry, you seem to have missed the point of what I was saying.

Late game you will need hundreds of kilos of liquid hydrogen. Literally tons of the stuff - so your little SPOM builds that are happily gobbling it all up, will leave you struggling to supply your rockets at 112g/s per electrolyzer.... Theres no such thing as a "little divert" if you've not managed to store up any hydrogen to divert

Theres also no such thing as an inefficient electrolyzer setup, only insufficient gas management. Oxygen as ever is a nuisance gas, and has been for a long time now - if you think otherwise I can only assume you've not delved all that far into space exploration/late game. 

I speak to new players and veterans on a daily basis - i'm well aware of myriad of eclectic and wonderful ways people find to kill their bases - however the most common complaints remain as a) heat death, b) starvation. Terrariums are stronger than ever, algae is more plentiful than ever, water is more plentiful than ever. Why would you ever underproduce on hydrogen by bottlenecking with spoms? It makes no sense.

All you need is set up your Spom from the start with an automation switch to the hydrogen generator, and an external power cable exposed, then when your power sufficient you can plug it in, and flip the switch and be producing the max amount of hydrogen per electrolyzer (besides using oxygen deletion exploits). 

Not having to redesign the whole thing from cycle 100 -> cycle infinity is a massive time saver.

My Exosuit spom as an example (70 degree oxygen  for suits, plus it fully self tames the geyser for the past 1000 cycles)

 

All I have to do it change the smart battery to a lower amount, and plug in the external cable... and it produces max hydrogen.

 

[Lifegrow]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Trueba said:

I don't want your help, no problem, and I think I have nothing to answer either.

I think the so-called SPOMS (although I do not like the name) are a good way for people who do not have 200h + in the game to survive and not drown in heat. It is a system that you build once and forget forever (you literally do not have to change anything again if you do it right at the beginning).
And that you mention that lategame ALL that hydrogen will be needed if not your rockets are going to be useless, I do not think that is true.
The reality is, what percentage of players make liquid hydrogen? Very, very few really.
Most people play a little, survive some cycles and repeat colony.
So I do not know, I would recommend that before you want to answer "noobs questions" to post random building and calling noobs to those who solve the problem in a different way, better help with the basics and understand that not everyone knows half of what you about the game. And that makes them better or worse players? Not at all, only each person plays as he pleases.
In addition, who has already reached the point of needing to make liquid hydrogen, surely already has enough hours of play and knowledge to deal with the lack of hydrogen, and surely their ideas will be better than a large space rectangle with hydrogen at high pressure.

Anyway, this is not an answer, it's just a statement that I thought out loud. Hahaha

Listen bud, I didn't call anyone a noob - I said that SPOMS are a noob trap, which they are.

The reason I call them a noob trap is simple : new players to the game struggle with electrolyzers, and the first thing they do is head to the forums and ask for the "easiest oxygen set up on earth" - and top response 9 times out of 10 is "You need a spom mate" - at which point they copy/paste a generic looking build into their base and forget about oxygen production forever - without learning a) how electrolyzers work, and b) the benefits of over production. That isn't a way to help new players - thats a method of breeding single minded clones.

Now again, you've misunderstood what I've said here - at NO POINT did I say that you must save ALL of your hydrogen for rockets, I didn't say that. What I said was that over production and storage of a buffer of hydrogen is an efficient use of time for future late game liquid hydrogen making.

"Building SPOMS instead of over producing and storing your gasses will mean that all of those cycles that you're preparing to venture to space are essentially wasted time where you could have been preparing a hydrogen buffer."

Again, theres a clear difference here between what I wrote and what you've understood. 

Now, based on what you've said so far, i'm going to assume you've not reached hydrogen engines yet - but let's just say you need a fair bit for late game.You can just slap a load of electrolyzers down and void the oxygen into space when it comes time to need it - but that's not exactly efficient usage of materials.

The rest of your message I genuinely didn't understand, you seem to think I called everyone noobs and questioned whether they were bad players or some waffle? I don't have a clue.

I didn't offer you my help before, I said I can't help you - and I think you've just proven me right.

[Neotuck]

Old meme but I swear to God I really am eating popcorn right now!

[Mr.Trueba]

8 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Old meme but I swear to God I really am eating popcorn right now!

Always ready. 

[PhailRaptor]

15 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

SPOMS are a noob trap, and with the amounts of hydrogen you're going to be wanting for late game, you're far better off having a highly inefficient, but high output build - and saving your hydrogen for liquid fuel later  

A SPOM is meant for an early to mid game stable source of Oxygen that takes little or no power from your grid, and sometimes gives it back instead.  Implying that they are somehow standing in the way of your late game rocket fueling systems is flat out ridiculous.  By the time you are prepping Hydrogen Rockets you should have effectively limitless Water anyway.  From that you can build as many Electrolyzers as you need just vent the Oxygen to space, collecting the Hydrogen for use.

You're trying to forge a connection where there is none.

[Tunechi_sama]

Life is right here, but how dare he disrespect the mighty spom.

[Saturnus]

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

A SPOM is meant for an early to mid game stable source of Oxygen that takes little or no power from your grid, and sometimes gives it back instead.  Implying that they are somehow standing in the way of your late game rocket fueling systems is flat out ridiculous.  By the time you are prepping Hydrogen Rockets you should have effectively limitless Water anyway.  From that you can build as many Electrolyzers as you need just vent the Oxygen to space, collecting the Hydrogen for use.

You're trying to forge a connection where there is none.

Exactly. But don't mind him. He's just started to his first game using rockets so he's still got the initial excitement and thinks they're actually useful or even necessary.

[Yoma_Nosme]

Ok...I've skimmed through the comments...holy Moses, it landed somewhere a little off topic. But I had some laughs, so I'm a happy camper.

For the average Joe who just wants to find solutions. 

1. Spom (self powered oxygen module)

Use some of the hydrogen (or most of it to produce and cool the oxygen). Use mechanical filters by smart placement of the electrolyzer so the hydrogen goes up and gets pumped when pressure is ok so it won't suck in oxygen. And oxygen will accumulate at the bottom, pump it when enough has accumulate so no hydrogen gets sucked it.

Now that the oxygen has separated form hydrogen pipe it through a room filled with hydrogen and wheezworts in it to cool the oxygen (use radiant pipes for best cooling effect). If you don't have enough wheezworts you can use instead a tank with p-water (because it's <0°C freezing point but water or any liquid is fine) where you pipe the radiant gas pipes through. This way will require a aquatuner to keep the liquid cool. Anyway you will need some extra power to cool the oxygen if you want to save some hydrogen because the aquatuner is power hungry at the start you will need at least 1 extra coal generator to keep things moving. 

2. Open electrolyzer 

Basically the same mechanical filter where oxygen and hydrogen separate. The hydro on top gets pumped. The oxy at the bottom disperses in the base( keep the bottom open, duh)

This will require a radiator build at the bottom of the electrolyzers so the o2 gets cold. Best use aquatuner with oil or petro. P-water is also ok.

3. Closed electrolyzer with thermo regulator cooling. 

Basically the same as Spom. Just don't use an aquatuner-cooled cooling tank or wheezworts-hydrogen chamber to cool the oxygen. Instead use some thermo regulators in series where you pump your Oct through to bring the temp down...this is inarguably the most power hungry build. If you have power to waste don't bother with mechanical filtering either. Two pumps, running non-stop connect them with 1 pipe then use a gas filter to separate the two gases

A few tips. Pump off some o2 separately for your atmo suits, they don't need cold air. Don't waste energy to cool air for atmo suites...

Another great way to filter hydrogen and oxygen with 0 power is by mechanical pipe filter. Search the forum for further information 

Have fun. Cheers! 

[Oozinator]

Mhh only beginners build SPOM, pros build the perlator ™

 

[badimo]

Imagine what it feels like to be new(ish) to ONI, ask a simple question and get responses like this.

Perhaps, General Discussion should be split into two sub-forums: n00b Zone & PR0S ONLY!!?!

[Lifegrow]

7 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

A SPOM is meant for an early to mid game stable source of Oxygen that takes little or no power from your grid, and sometimes gives it back instead.  Implying that they are somehow standing in the way of your late game rocket fueling systems is flat out ridiculous.  By the time you are prepping Hydrogen Rockets you should have effectively limitless Water anyway.  From that you can build as many Electrolyzers as you need just vent the Oxygen to space, collecting the Hydrogen for use.

You're trying to forge a connection where there is none.

I agree with the first part 100% - You're exactly right, the original "SPOM" build was just that - a mini module you could slap down so that you didn't need to worry about oxygen for a while, and for that purpose it was cute and functional.

HOWEVER, the whole point i'm making (or trying to make, if you would all just jump off the pitchfork bandwagon for a second) in my experience from speaking to numerous fresh players/beginners/newbs/whatever you want to call them - This isn't how they're often used. They don't get replaced later, or expanded upon - for the most part they just slap another <generic SPOM> in to their base, and the cycle continues - it becomes the only generic build they use.

These same new players often don't manage their resources well, don't min-max their power gen builds to get the most out of their outputs, and as such end up in a looping cycle of "need oxygen, must build oxygen setup" and "oh noes, I have no water, what do I do now?" 

I know this because I spend the best part of my life helping people with these same old questions day in day out, it's kind of what I do. I've streamed - not just played offline - but streamed over 2000 hours of this game, so it gives me a fair connection to the playerbase. 

I think what some of you are forgetting that in the late game, most common resources like water, power, and food are indeed infinite - once you've played a dozen playthroughs and know the game backwards. How does this apply for beginners?

 

5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Exactly. But don't mind him. He's just started to his first game using rockets so he's still got the initial excitement and thinks they're actually useful or even necessary.

I've done 2 1100+ cycle runs side by side in the Space Industry update, launched dozens of rockets, and yeah - I had fun doing it. I'm not a miserable sod like yourself  

Regardless, your opinion would be valid if you ever left debug  How quickly you turn eh Saturnus? See you on twitch - or probably not i'd imagine.

[Oozinator]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

.. pitchfork bandwagon for a second.

Yes Sir. Old but nice.

Please stay on topic!

[habuky]

15 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

at which point they copy/paste a generic looking build into their base [...] - without learning

Exactly. And that's why it great that this discussion has been brought up!

Enough support for the mainstream builds have already posted elsewhere.

 

 

 

[Cipupec2]

19 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

The reason I call them a noob trap is simple : new players [..] ask for the "easiest oxygen set up on earth" [..] copy/paste a generic looking build into their base [..] without learning [..] That isn't a way to help new players - thats a method of breeding single minded clones.

Paradoxically you provide such a copy/paste able setup in your very first post, and argue against builds that differ from your current space goals. One could even argue that streamers are the new generic blueprint clone factories. But these strawmen aside, overall you are barking on the wrong tree with your strict definition of what a SPOM is.

[Lifegrow]

1 hour ago, Cipupec2 said:

Paradoxically you provide such a copy/paste able setup in your very first post, and argue against builds that differ from your current space goals. One could even argue that streamers are the new generic blueprint clone factories. But these strawmen aside, overall you are barking on the wrong tree with your strict definition of what a SPOM is.

I'm fairly sure you're trying to get a rise out of me at this point; or you're somewhat illiterate - in which case, just to be PC, I'll respond.

OP's original question was : "How do you deal with electrolyzer heat?

In response to this I linked a video that shows a simple cooling loop, the focus of the video is on the powerful properties of radiant piping - relating directly to cooling electrolyzers.

Kindly stop being a clown  

[fishoutofwater]

add one ww and i could have chilled oxygen.

[onlineous]

As indicated here: 

my prefered option is a cooling loop through your base. 

If you keep the electrolyzers on top of your base you could only run the cooling loop under it (as shown in this pictures). If your base is too big you could expand the cooling loop a bit through your base and plop down electrolyzers everywhere you want. The downside of that is that you also cool the hydrogen (which does not need to be cooled). The upside is that you don't have to pump oxygen (which is still a big waste in my opinion).

[psusi]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:10 AM, LookingForBaal said:

A lot of people build a SPOM.  Even if you don't do that you could just put the electrolyzers outside of your base and cool the air before it gets sent to your base.

Inside/outside isn't really meaningful.  I believe the question is how to cool the air.

On 11/3/2018 at 11:22 AM, babba said:

I play open bases, by default I put temp shift plates around them

Those just help the heat move around... you still need a way to get rid of it.

 

[babba]

11 minutes ago, psusi said:

Inside/outside isn't really meaningful.  I believe the question is how to cool the air.

Those just help the heat move around... you still need a way to get rid of it.

 

I would be very glad to have more ideas on how to heat my base. I'm preparing for 20 parallel rocket launches, still working on the Texaco Oil Block II, Terminal East.

[Saturnus]

17 minutes ago, babba said:

I would be very glad to have more ideas on how to heat my base. I'm preparing for 20 parallel rocket launches, still working on the Texaco Oil Block II, Terminal East.

You can always build a stack of these. Although it can't melt regolith anymore, it's still a great source of free energy heat. If you use supercoolant instead of petroleum (if possible) they potential heat output should be even higher.

 

[babba]

Hey Saturnus. Thank you for the tip with the super coolant, I'm currently still building basic stuff in my map. For me its always a compromise with the game's framerate on what to build. I think at some point I will rework my map, so that it has no pipe diversions/splittings at all. So each 1 resource supplier connected to one straight destination consumer.

[psusi]

1 hour ago, babba said:

I would be very glad to have more ideas on how to heat my base. I'm preparing for 20 parallel rocket launches, still working on the Texaco Oil Block II, Terminal East.

What kind of debug mode nonsense is this and what does it have to do with the question at hand?

[babba]

This threads question is "How do you deal with electrolyzer heat?"

On 11/3/2018 at 4:22 PM, babba said:
I play open bases, by default I put temp shift plates around them

You wrote:
"Those just help the heat move around... you still need a way to get rid of it."

If you call other people playstyle nonsense, you wouldn't like it if others say that about your playstyle.

My base is currently very cold, so I am glad if I have things to heat it up for now - Getting to rockets will take me a long time, as I'm building the basics on a large scale in my map. There is no viable option in the default normal game to acquire million tons of Steel, that's what I have consumed already.

Imagine playing Factorio in normal mode - Thats how Im playing ONI. There is also players which play ONI without dupes, did you know that ? 

 

[Carnis]

If @Lifegrow would delete The gaspumps too that are eating 480watts/kg water, he would Be onto something.

As it is he is building closed electrolyzer / gas pump systems.. so sort of in The spom doom crowd like @Saturnus mentioned.

2019 we May see migration towards simplest & most efficient free breathing electrolyzer & base cooling that is not in any way connected to hydro & oxy production.

There is no downside to Having mixed O2/h2 atmosphere in your base. Product Will be 70C but only 1,2-1,4kg / tile so easily cooled with radiant liquid pipes.