How do you deal with electrolyzer heat?

[psusi]

5 hours ago, babba said:

If you call other people playstyle nonsense, you wouldn't like it if others say that about your playstyle.

I didn't call your playstyle nonsense.  What I said was the question is how to get rid of the heat the electrolyzer produces, and building tempshift plates around it isn't an answer.

5 hours ago, babba said:

My base is currently very cold, so I am glad if I have things to heat it up for now - Getting to rockets will take me a long time, as I'm building the basics on a large scale in my map. There is no viable option in the default normal game to acquire million tons of Steel, that's what I have consumed already.

This sounds like you already have a full base cooling solution in place, like radiant liquid pipes connected to a heat sink like a steam turbine, and it's working a little too well.  In that case, that is the answer to the OP's question.  The radiant pipes do a good job of spreading around heat without the need for additional tempshift plates.

5 hours ago, babba said:

Imagine playing Factorio in normal mode - Thats how Im playing ONI. There is also players which play ONI without dupes, did you know that ? 

Don't know what factorio is so can't relate to this.

3 hours ago, Carnis said:

There is no downside to Having mixed O2/h2 atmosphere in your base. Product Will be 70C but only 1,2-1,4kg / tile so easily cooled with radiant liquid pipes.

The problem is when pockets of h2 get stuck, your dupes can't breathe it and get cold and hypothermia in it easily if it has been cooled.

[babba]

Thanks for answering psusi

You definitely have more detail knowledge than me on exact input-output values and such !

[psusi]

47 minutes ago, babba said:

Thanks for answering psusi

You definitely have more detail knowledge than me on exact input-output values and such !

I don't think your sarcastic remark adds anything useful to the conversation.

[Kabrute]

I feed my electrolyzer from 2 sources, the first comes from geysers at 80c+ runs through insulated piping and tiles in the floor and comes up into the bottom of the electrolyzer, the second source comes from my sieve and passes through 2 aquatuners before snaking through the base, garden, and finally into the electrolyzer chamber where I snake it over the pumps before sending it into the electrolyzer.  Since both feeds are built properly with bridges leading up to the electrolyzer both feeds take turns supplying it allowing a maximum of heat to transfer to the liquid coming from my coolant system.

[babba]

24 minutes ago, psusi said:

I don't think your sarcastic remark adds anything useful to the conversation.

Huh ? It wasnt meant as any kind of mockery, satire or insult...I just wanted to shake hands with you.

[psusi]

6 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

I feed my electrolyzer from 2 sources, the first comes from geysers at 80c+ runs through insulated piping and tiles in the floor and comes up into the bottom of the electrolyzer, the second source comes from my sieve and passes through 2 aquatuners before snaking through the base, garden, and finally into the electrolyzer chamber where I snake it over the pumps before sending it into the electrolyzer.  Since both feeds are built properly with bridges leading up to the electrolyzer both feeds take turns supplying it allowing a maximum of heat to transfer to the liquid coming from my coolant system.

Neat.  It looks like your electrolyzer isn't using mechanical separation.. are you using a shutoff valve to split the oxygen from the hydrogen then?  Just one, or one on each pump?

[Kabrute]

Mechanical filters. Pumps are feeding one line.

[Cipupec2]

8 hours ago, psusi said:

I believe the question is how to cool the air.

The OP has gone AWOL without elaborating what specifically he needs help with, so there isn't any on topic left the tangent we are currently on.

4 hours ago, Carnis said:

2019 we May see migration towards simplest & most efficient free breathing electrolyzer & base cooling that is not in any way connected to hydro & oxy production.

Possibly, but basic entry level electrolyzer setups will ever go out of style in oxygen not included, due to their simplicity, versatility and no reliance on hindsight. They might change, slapped a different name on top but there will always be the notion of best setup for that slot, which would be paddled by streamers etc

7 hours ago, babba said:

Imagine playing Factorio in normal mode - Thats how Im playing ONI.

a lot of my builds are built with Factorio mindset i.e. self contained systems

23 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

[..] or you're somewhat illiterate [..]

It's amusing how the person arguing about other misunderstanding his comment and not getting his grand point is being obtuse and too literal.

[babba]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

I didn't call your playstyle nonsense.  What I said was the question is how to get rid of the heat the electrolyzer produces, and building tempshift plates around it isn't an answer.

 

1

My answer was an answer. I do not need approval from another user what qualifies as an answer. Thats how I deal with heat, having temp shift plates and default surrounding cooling. I hope the tone gets a bit more positive, a bit away from the Spanish Inquisition 

[psusi]

29 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

Mechanical filters. Pumps are feeding one line.

Wait, where is the mechanical filter?  It looks like both of your pumps are picking up a mix of hydrogen and oxygen.  Where are they separated back out?

10 minutes ago, babba said:

My answer was an answer. I do not need approval from another user what qualifies as an answer. Thats how I deal with heat, having temp shift plates and default surrounding cooling. I hope the tone gets a bit more positive, a bit away from the Spanish Inquisition 

If the question is "how do I get rid of the heat produced by the electrolyzer", then "spread it out faster over a few tiles with tempshift plates" isn't an answer.  It ultimately has to go somewhere.  Moving it somewhere that is already cold is an answer, though a short term one.  A more useful answer is one of the methods for actually deleting the heat.  Or are you answering a different question?  If so, what is it?  My only guess is "how can I more quickly spread out the heat of my electrolyzer into my base that is already cold ( and don't worry about how that is or how to keep it that way )"?

 

[avc15]

I use open air systems instead of a SPOM to save electrical power. It's just a matter of putting some number of these around the base:

Pros:

- Way less power to produce and cool oxygen (power per gram cool oxygen is about 1/7th of a self contained SPOM after switching to in-place liquid cooling; comparisons are moot before then, since wheezeworts are free cooling)

- Much less effort to build, and it's low tech (you don't need the memory toggle or liquid sensor I have here)

- Cooling in the early game is very low effort (1-2 wheezeworts per module depending on throughput, just go retrieve some)

- Switch in place to liquid cooling later in the game. Cooling with a liquid coolant takes less power (about 1/7th) to deliver the same amount of cooling as forced air with HVACs, even without advanced materials.

Cons:

- Can't serve even close to 10 dupes per electrolyzer, more like 5 - relies on natural flow, so your electrolyzers are bottlenecked by pressure (SPOM can get much closer to 10 dupes per electrolyzer or at least 10 dupes per air loop)

- As a result you have to build a few of them. I normally wind up with about 4 for 20 dupes or so.

 

----

You asked about cooling, but everything else about air system design is always tied to the hip with cooling. That's just a disclaimer, every once in a while I get that reply "but your system has about nothing to do with cooling" or "you can't compare this one to that one in terms of power". (of course it does, of course you can)

 

 

[Saturnus]

3 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait, where is the mechanical filter?  It looks like both of your pumps are picking up a mix of hydrogen and oxygen.  Where are they separated back out?

[babba]

27 minutes ago, psusi said:

...

If the question is "how do I get rid of the heat produced by the electrolyzer", then "spread it out faster over a few tiles with tempshift plates" isn't an answer.  It ultimately has to go somewhere.  Moving it somewhere that is already cold is an answer, though a short term one.  A more useful answer is one of the methods for actually deleting the heat.  Or are you answering a different question?  If so, what is it?  My only guess is "how can I more quickly spread out the heat of my electrolyzer into my base that is already cold ( and don't worry about how that is or how to keep it that way )"?

 

2

I really meant it honest with shaking hands with you. Thank you for staying fair. So I will also give an educated answer...Not every answer has to be long and it also does not always have to make sense for the reader. Did it make sense that a user posted a Will Ferrell picture into this thread ? Yes for some, no for others. I find the picture great and fun. IMHO stating to other users that their answer is no answer, mhhhh. I showed a small photo in regards of my heat shifting plates, some/most players are educated in physics and know that heat just doesn't disappear.

However, I love the last few posted spaghetti pipe pictures, Ive got a really long thread with lots of spaghetti too...Will I tell those builders that there is better ways to build more efficient spaghetti ? No.

Friends ?

 

[Lifegrow]

 

25 minutes ago, Cipupec2 said:

Possibly, but basic entry level electrolyzer setups will ever go out of style in oxygen not included, due to their simplicity, versatility and no reliance on hindsight. They might change, slapped a different name on top but there will always be the notion of best setup for that slot, which would be paddled by streamers etc

It's amusing how the person arguing about other misunderstanding his comment and not getting his grand point is being obtuse and too literal.

You talk nutter nonsense, repeatedly. You're now blaming the "streamers" for peddling the same old builds? Did you just magically learn all of your game knowledge by yourself? No. You probably did what we all do - share info by asking/reading/watching/tinkering. 

I wasn't "arguing" about others misunderstanding anything - I was stating that you are a misunderstanding.

Also, it's peddled* not paddled.

[psusi]

18 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I'm a little confused here.  On the one hand, it looks like you are circling shutoff valves controlled by element sensors like I mentioned before.  On the other hand... where the heck are the white/green in/out tiles on all of the machines?

11 minutes ago, babba said:

Did it make sense that a user posted a Will Ferrell picture into this thread ?

I believe that was a joke rather than an answer.

[Kabrute]

input outputs gone : alt+s screen shot mode

I'm using a valve with a loop recycling 1g packets to filter the gasses, its called a mechanical filter was started by pvd, updated by saturnus and kasuha. 

removed bridges for easier view of the filter

[Cipupec2]

2 hours ago, avc15 said:

I use open air systems instead of a SPOM

Instead?  A SPOM is any Self-Powered setup, so you can have an open air-system that is a SPOM as well. 

The advantage of using a SPOM is that it is self sufficient and self contained setup, it's a great early/simple/quick failsafe for critical systems e.g. used for oxygen production it can mitigate death spirals from thing like dupes not delivering resources to your power gen or unimportant machines draining power needed for oxygen production while your dupes suffocate.

2 hours ago, avc15 said:

Pros:
Cons:

For a strictly open Air systems, here is my list:

Pro:

• Save power on Oxygen pumping by placing the setup on site and just let it spread through out the base on its own. 

Con:

• A base layout is much more crude and imprecise way to deliver oxygen to your base compared to piping, which would greatly restrict and complicate your base design in the long run.
• Much more error prone due to unknown factors, would force to you greatly overbuild, particularly if you don't want to limit yourself to small base with exosuits on the doorsteps.
• Less optimized and wasteful solution in terms of cooling than a centralized setup (Particularly if you are using a hot water setup.)
• Due its distributed nature it is much harder to keep track off, also it could end up more costly and or suffer from heat bleeding through out your base from the water pipes leading to each of your electolizers .

Overall, I think its a nice situational setup that can be integrated as part of you base in some place, but isn't a solution on it's own. 

[avc15]

20 minutes ago, Cipupec2 said:

• A base layout is much more crude and imprecise way to deliver oxygen to your base compared to piping, which would greatly restrict and complicate your base design in the long run.

You've re-stated my cons in a much more dramatic way :b That's so argumentative.

All you have to do is build a handful of these things, and put them in a few different places. They're small and simple, low tech, low power.

Error prone? How can a simpler device with fewer parts be error prone? It has a water pipe going to it, and that's the only essential system. If you build four of them in the 4 quadrants of your base, you're covered for 20 dupes. Keep water in the pipes, they keep on working.

I bet you've done open air designs before, but it seems you had problems. I suggest this very simple design as a thing to try sometime.

[Cipupec2]

6 hours ago, avc15 said:

You've re-stated my cons in a much more dramatic way :b That's so argumentative.

No. I have removed all pros that are shared with pretty much any other early build like being simple and low tech, or the ability to added water cooling later, leaving it with single unique pro of being more power efficient. Then expanded your list of cons --which read as 'its inefficient but you can just overbuild'-- with actual cons and inefficiencies.

6 hours ago, avc15 said:

All you have to do is build a handful of these things, and put them in a few different places. They're small and simple, low tech, low power.

Like I said its as simple and low tech as any early build. Obviously in the long term as your base will grow, it will take more space than just using pipes and making changes/optimizations to your base/setup will be much harder with many setups integrated into it than with central setup outside your base (definitely more water to mop.)

6 hours ago, avc15 said:

Error prone?

Common issues with all setups are power outage, heat generation, input/output issues (over pressure, blockage, lack of buffer, packet optimization ) all of which can be much easily tracked and efficiently handled in central setup. For example, I suspect that you will encounter many issues with oxygen not reaching tight spots, will have to play whackamole with heat much more with your precious wheezeworts, and that your setup is power inefficient in regard to electrolyzer over pressurization.

[Oozinator]

4 hours ago, Cipupec2 said:

Common issues with all setups are ..

 

[thejams]

7 hours ago, avc15 said:

- Cooling in the early game is very low effort (1-2 wheezeworts per module depending on throughput, just go retrieve some)

I would say your cooling an open system is a con rather than a pro cause of low Wheezewort efficiency in Oxygen, as well as no temperature control.  The complete opposite is the biggest pro in a closed (pumped) system IMO.

[Saturnus]

7 hours ago, psusi said:

I'm a little confused here.  On the one hand, it looks like you are circling shutoff valves controlled by element sensors like I mentioned before.  

It's not shut off valves. It's just valves. There's no automation. Hence mechanical filter.

[Carnis]

Oh dear.

Ive had absolutely no issues with open Air electrolyzer.

I setup a central 4 wide shaft with 1 space Air, 1 ladder, 1 firepole, 1 tube.

Set the electrolyzers along this Corridor & included some airflow tiles on roofs.

Then provide insulated igenous pipes For water & 120watts electricity/electrolyzer.

Add a mechanical airfilter on your top of base hydro pump & your base runs fluent with 3-4 electrolyzer, 1 pump.

I Also have some Oxygen + mech filter pump For suits. All pumps use gas sensors with 5s filter +not Gate to stop pumping when full.

[clickrush]

6 hours ago, Cipupec2 said:

A SPOM is any Self-Powered setup, so you can have an open air-system that is a SPOM as well.

I'am possibly just nitpicking here but a SPOM is something very specific. It is a build made by a specific player namely @QuQuasar.

It is a closed system, 3:1 pumps cookie cutter electrolyzer setup, using tile based mechanical filtering, with a wheezewort radiator and a hydrogen generator built into a single compact module. @QuQuasar made entertaining, well explained posts to showcase a his simple but effective build, which has become a great reference for starting players.

Not every electrolyzer build which produces more power than it consumes is a SPOM. In fact every electrolyzer build, which isn't made by a beginner does that, since long before the SPOM was posted, which was after the automation upgrade.

The player who mainly popularized tile and pipe based mechanical filtering around these boards is as far as I know @Kasuha. Mechanical filtering is what makes electrolyzer builds power efficient.

[Saturnus]

29 minutes ago, clickrush said:

The player who mainly popularized tile and pipe based mechanical filtering around these boards is as far as I know @Kasuha. Mechanical filtering is what makes electrolyzer builds power efficient.

I think you mean @PVD. He came up with the initial idea, or at least was the first to post about it on the forum. @Kasuha and I both made different workable solutions to the problem the initial build had in packet overflow, since if a full packet sees a mechanical filter loop with let say 1g per pipe section then only 999g of the full packet can be transferred letting 1g continue through. I made the notion that you could just limit the flow with a valve in front to completely eliminate the problem at the cost of introducing a choke point for gas flow. Implied in that solution is that if you split the flow into two with a valve setting at 500g then you could use two filters, and avoid the choke point.

@Kasuha came up with the better double bridge solution that has a 2nd bridge connected to the filter loop so that the overshoot of the first bridge is filtered by the 2nd bridge. Naturally that makes the set up a bit more complicated as you have to take flow direction into account as the filtering has to take place in a specific order, and it also eventually would overflow as the gas filtered by the 2nd bridge would build up in the loop with continuous full packets meaning that a maximum of 20000 full packets (at 0.1g filter loop setting) in a row could be filtered before an overflow occurs. Obviously, that's not terribly likely to happen though.