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Everything posted by psusi

  1. So now that most buildings have been changed to a minimum output temperature instead of fixed output, and the steam turbine power output has been nerfed, how the hell are you supposed to get rid of heat? The steam turbine takes a lot of power to make it delete heat, so where do you get that? You only get about 400w average power from either a natural gas or hydrogen vent, which isn't even enough to run everything else, let alone have some extra to run the steam turbine. The ethanol cycle can be used to produce cold oxygen from wild arbor trees, but if you want to tap the water from the salt water or cool steam geysers, you are going to need to delete a lot of heat, so how the heck do you do it? I calculate that it is about break even to electrolyze the 95 degree water, heat the hydrogen to 150, burn it in a hydrogen generator, and use the power to to run that. But that still leaves you with oxygen at around 60 degrees, and no way to cool it further without using a lot of power.
  2. So you use the pulse exploit to make the liquid tepidizer heat the steam hot enough for the turbines. I'm with you there. But even 1 turbine eats more than the amount of steam the vent produces while active, and it's inactive 75% of the time, so why use 2 turbines? And I guess you could use the 95 degree water for running an oil well but what if you just need to use it to make oxygen?
  3. Say what now? The steam from the vent is both less than the minimum temperature and insufficient volume to drive even 1 port of the turbine. It doesn't look like you are using the port blocking trick to get hot steam to one port either, and if you did, the power output would be very low, but you show full power. The hydrogen vent temperature is plenty hot, but the mass is so minuscule, it isn't going to provide enough heat to run the turbine.
  4. Cooling? It's 95 degrees. I can't even figure out how to electrolyze it for oxygen and cool down the oxygen. Even using a gold aquatuner to move heat from the oxygen to the hydrogen before you burn it can only get the oxygen down to about 60 degrees.
  5. Let me see if I get this. At the cold plate, when the sour gas turns into sulfur and liquid methane, the SHC goes from 1.898 to 1.677. That means that 1.898 DTU of heat had to be removed, and the liquid methane can only take care of no more than 1.677 of that, leaving 0.221 DTUs for the cold plate to make up. At the same time when the oil changes to sour gas at the hot plate, its SHC changes from 1.690 to 1.898, so it only took 1.69J of heat to heat it up, but the incoming oil can only remove at most 1.690 DTC, leaving the hot plate to make up the 0.208 DTU difference. Damn. That sucks. So the phase changes are like a phantom heat transfer from hot plate to cold plate that bypasses the heat exchanger.
  6. @DRAKCORE Ok, so 3kg/s of oil going in holds 456,300 DTU of heat. The outgoing methane holds 438,200 DTU, and the sulfur 70,000 DTU, for a total of 508,200 DTU. So your thermo-regulators have to pull the difference, or 51,900 DTU/s, which is about 1.55 thermo-regulators. The video I saw was only processing 1 kg of oil/s so the thermo-regulators only had to work 1/3rd as much. Probably a little less than that even since the temperature gradient was lower due to having more pipe zig-zag in the heat exchanger. Also I just noticed that the conversion from oil -> sulfur + natural gas deletes heat. So the magma is putting more heat into the system than the thermo-regulators have to pull out. Something may be gained by using an aqua-tuner to pre-heat the oil. Leave a little more space between the incoming oil pipes and the liquid methane pipes for some space in the middle for the aqua-tuner to exchange coolant and pre-chill the sour gas. Even with the aqua-tuner cooling petroleum as the coolant, it's still 46% more efficient than the hydrogen thermo-regulator. You could try using polluted water instead for even better efficiency but risk it boiling in the pipes. I suppose with the petro coolant, it would only save you around 100 watts of power, but it could also do double duty pulling in extra heat from elsewhere that you want to get rid of.
  7. Nope, he said it was a pre-space material build and they were definitely thermo-regulators using hydrogen. The key to efficiency is the temperature delta between the incoming oil at the last spot the sour gas touches it, and the sour gas at that spot, as well as the temperature delta between the outgoing natural gas and and the sour gas at the last spot they touch. In an ideal system, if they were both exactly the same temperature, the thermo regulators would never run. What's the delta in your setup? I'm guessing you have a fairly good delta since you made the exchanger kind of compact and are running 3 lines straight instead of one with a zig-zag. Did I just miss the temp shift plates or did you not use those to help exchange heat? It should also help to keep the pressure of the sour gas high so there is more mass to exchange heat. Maybe use a door just before the cold side to control the release of sour gas to the cold plate and keep higher pressure in the heat exchanger? So it is a trade-off between size and efficiency. I guess that you don't really care about spending more power on the cooling side since you get an insane amount of power from burning the ng in the generators, and so as long as you have a volcano to keep providing fresh magma, go for the more compact and less efficient one. But if you don't have a volcano, and you don't want to use up your magma, then you want a big efficient one.
  8. I watched a video the other day on youtube... I think the guy's name was Brothgar. His did only have 1 kg/s but the two thermo-regulators at the bottom hardly ran. He said there was almost no heat actually making it all the way from the hot plate to the cold side.
  9. You have 26. Even a third of that is 8.6. You should only need like 2, and not on full time either.
  10. Good point about the floor, but his room is full of steam, not CO2. @DRAKCORE I spotted a major flaw in your setup. The reason you need so many thermo-regulators is that in effect, you are using them to move heat from the volcano to the steam turbine, and that's a very inefficient way to do it. I think I'm going to try to build a sour gas boiler without natural magma. I'll start with dripping molten glass from the glass forge onto one steel tile. The glass will cool from 1750 C until near the temperature of the steel tile. The tile will heat up and the glass will solidify at which point it can be swept elsewhere to finish cooling. Once the steel tile is up to 1000 C, drop 10kg of sedimentary rock on it. This will cool the tile some, but should get the rock up to 926 C, at which point it will change into 1409 C magma, and multiply its specific heat by 5. That should heat the steel tile further before freezing into igneous rock which can be swept away. Repeat until tile is getting close to 1409 C. Build second steel tile next to it. That should drop the temperature back down below 1000 C, so you will need to forge some more glass to get back to 1000 C, then throw on sedimentary rock again, and repeat adding 2 more steel tiles below ( one at a time, then reheating ). At that point you should have 4 steel tiles sitting at around 1400 C. Add the conduction door and two more steel tiles for your hot plate inside the sour gas chamber, and as long as your top plate is still over 1000 C you can reheat it any time to 1400 just by adding some more sandstone. With an efficient sour gas boiler, the hot plate will lose heat very slowly.
  11. Wow, that is a thing of beauty. I've seen sour gas boilers before but never one that has 3 separate lines of 1000g/s of oil going in. And that generator room is perfection. What I am not sure about is using the diamond windows to transfer cooling to the sour gas. Why not just run the hydrogen into the sour gas room? One other thing that is interesting is that other designs use the heat from the thermo-regulators to warm the liquid methane back up, but you are using it instead to heat steam for the turbine. I suppose that creates a net transfer of heat from the volcano to the turbine, which I suppose is a good way of using the excess heat from the volcano. If you don't have a volcano though then I guess you would want to use the pump trick to get some magma from the magma biome and would want it to stay hot instead of sending heat to the turbine, so you would want to cool the thermo-regulators with the liquid methane instead of steam. Finally, with the generators all running hot, they are creating a ton of heat in the newly created boiling polluted water. Honestly, I am quite surprised that a single steam turbine can handle all of that heat, plus the heat being transferred from the volcano.
  12. Well that sucks. I thought those points were also on top of the 20 you can train.
  13. Yes, it works, but the point of this thread is that there is a much better way. No, it wasn't limited to only your third example. All of your examples involved a main heavy watt wire bus. That requires a transformer on that bus to connect it to every load circuit, and to every generator circuit that isn't directly connected to the main bus. With this method, the main bus can go everywhere it is needed, without spending lots of metal on heavy watt wire, and dealing with the fact that it can't go through walls except with a bridge, is expensive, and has a huge decor penalty. Yes, but then you get brown-out and some loads shut down. For some loads, that is OK, but for many it can be very bad. It is also annoying that since they added the second type of transformer, you now need TWO of the basic ones to supply a load circuit instead of just one. The first sentence is wrong, which you point out in the second. To put that another way, to avoid burning wires, you need either a switched network, or a heavy watt wire main bus + transformers. Yes, you need the twin batteries and logic with this method, but with the old one, you need not only twin transformers, but also they must be located on the main heavy watt wire bus. With this method, the batteries+logic is spread out at each load or generator center instead of transformers all being concentrated on the main bus. The switched battery network is the alternative, the heavy watt wire main bus is the original
  14. @KittenIsAGeek Yes, but that still requires you to use heavy watt wire as your main bus, and you have to have a large transformer on that bus to feed every 2kw branch load circuit, and another to accept input from every 2kw generator feeder line. The star topology gets a little out of control when you have 3+ power plants and 4+ branch circuits. Then your main heavy watt bus has to have 7+ large transformers on it and a couple of smart batteries all in one central location. The main bus is also limited to to the max current of the heavy watt wire. This method does away with all of the heavy watt wire and you can put as many branch circuits and as many power plants on it as you want, with one massive basic wire bus that goes everywhere and carries unlimited power. You just have to insert sub-stations spread around to couple the main bus to the branch circuits, but each sub-station doesn't need an independent line back to a transformer on the main bus.
  15. Yea, I came to that conclusion a bit ago too. However, to handle power sources you can't just turn off to save fuel, I'm going to set up a secondary power bus connected to those sources, and a room full of jumbo batteries with a switcher to couple it to the secondary grid, and a transformer to feed the main grid. That way things like solar, steam turbines, and duplicants running on priority 1 hamster wheels because they have nothing better to do can always store excess power in the battery bank for later use. I am just coming back to the game after taking almost a year off and I used to use the switcher to be able to supply sub grids from my main heavy watt wire bank without overloading the regular line from the transformer on the main bank, but that meant the sub-grid could only consume on average, as much power was left over from the transformer, on average, but at least it smoothed out the peak loads to avoid wire burns. I always had a feeling there was some way to use the concept to have multiple distributed sites around the base that generated power and multiple sub-stations feeding the loads, but I couldn't figure out how to do it until now. No more heavy watt wires or "main" battery banks for me!
  16. Oh my God this is amazing! I'm never using heavy watt wire again! By the way, take your first coal gen room, get rid of the coal generator, and replace the smart battery on the left with half a dozen jumbo batteries and won't that get you a smart, scalable, distributed grid level surge battery? The generators will always run to top off the battery, but when you decide to switch on 3 aqua tuners and really strain your power grid beyond what your generators can sustain, the battery will supply the rest to prevent any brownouts for quite some time. Need more high load time? Add more jumbo batteries. Need more peak load? Split the jumbo batteries across more modules that can be spread around your base as you like.
  17. This was a very interesting read. My first reaction was also that a net loss of water for some power and a ton of dirt seemed like crap, and then after reading this thread, my conclusion was that domestic arbor trees are balanced to be about the same as the water -> oil well -> refinery -> generator path, but you aren't limited by only having one or two oil wells on the map. The sour gas route of course, makes the oil path a water positive feedback loop and totally awesome, but is much harder to set up than some wild arbor trees, which is also totally awesome because you get a ton of water and power for very little labor. Two things I just realized that you guys didn't consider. First, when comparing to a dupe running on a treadmill, I'm pretty sure that if you keep them in a room with low oxygen levels, they will gain some stress, but reduce oxygen consumption to only 33g/s. And more importantly, you know all of that polluted dirt you get out of ethanol you were thinking of just feeding to sage hatches to get coal for some more power? Just let it sublimate into oxygen instead. Then even growing them domesticated, it costs you 72 kg water/cycle net, but gets you nearly 720 kg of oxygen! Or about a dupes daily water requirement to provide enough oxygen for 12! I'd much rather have that than 720 watts of extra coal power. I have to get one of these things built ASAP. Got one seed so far from the printer, so now I need the darn thing to offer me another pip ( turned the last one down since I wasn't sure I even wanted to do the trees and wasn't nearly ready to start ).
  18. When you mouse over a mesh tile it does not mention the gas inside the tile, but if you click on the tile repeatedly, you can select the gas layer and see what gas is there.
  19. I produced over 2000kg of steel needed to make the rocket engine ( not sure if I had 2100 or 2200kg, but somewhere around there ), and the icon lit up indicating I had enough material to build it. I started building it, and after a while, ran out of steel with 800+ kg left to go. I built nothing else with steel during this time, and I'm pretty sure I even refined one or two more batches thinking I would need more for the research modules and command module. The Radioactive Panopticon.sav The Radioactive Panopticon Cycle 1063.sav
  20. Here is an auto save back from cycle 747 where I had this nice steam turbine setup going to delete heat from the metal refinery and as an added bonus, use the power generated to run a steel aquatuner to cool the base. It worked great for a good 10 cycles, when it lost pressure, and I noticed gas had been deleted. It turns out there was a small pocket of polluted oxygen floating around, which people on the forums say leads to gas deletion, even though I swear when I sealed the room, there was nothing but oxygen in there. I then added pure oxygen from the electrolyzer and water from the steam vent until the pressure was high enough ( ~25kg ) and let them fight with the oxygen mostly trapped at the top, but sometimes poking down to get the turbine to see low pressure oxygen on top and high pressure steam on the bottom. A run of steel in the refinery would kick the heat over 500 F to toggle on the turbine, let it run for a good while powering the aquatuner to help add more heat, and eventually shut off at 455 F. This went on and off nearly a dozen times before I noticed the gas deletion. 9 cycles later, the gas pressure is down to only ~16kg of steam and oxygen. The Radioactive Panotpicon 6 Cycle 747.sav The Radioactive Panopticon.sav
  21. Holy crap, that is maddeningly FUBAR. Why are the devs not fixing this?
  22. Part of power grid loses power

    Provides power to machines that want it, and if ( and only if ) there is any leftover, then it recharges. If it prioritized recharging itself over supplying power to other buildings, it would be completely useless.
  23. [SU-291278] Gas and steam bug back again

    What gasses are floating around in the room besides steam? Some have said that if you have 3 gasses mixing it causes this problem. On the other hand, I only have steam and oxygen in my steam turbine room and it seems to keep slowly converting steam into oxygen. I vacuum out my steam vent rooms both to avoid this bug and to make sure there is the most room for steam to come out of the vent.
  24. Part of power grid loses power

    Umm, no dude. Batteries provide power as long as they are not empty.
  25. Reloading the game resets inspection status

    I think there are more codex entries than POI objects so I guess this is the only way you can unlock them all.