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Could we just get rid of the unnecessary grind for once?!


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There's so many things that are so dull to do after a while just over and over again. This includes:

* Picking up a bunch of items

* Refining a bunch of items

* Harvesting a bunch of things < lureplant

* Resetting traps

* A bunch of rot, stingers and other items that nobody wants 

 

It takes so much time to do all of this. This is unnecessary grind, honestly. And the ridiculous truth is, it all CAN be made less grindful.

- Lazy Forager has always been about you being lazy to pick up a bunch of ****. It feels like it's a bit too slow to pick up items, as it feels like you should just be able to walk over a certain area of like 10 items and all of it should be picked up 

- How about if I could just specify an amount of a certain item I want to craft and then craft it? Or may be if I'm near a crafting machine that requires prototyping it, I could craft a whole bunch of it? Would give use for the machines for people on Survival/Endless servers where only a few friends play if they get to a point where they are able to craft everything too!

- Here's a very easy solution that will make the game harder and make hound attacks more intense than just being a boringly necessary chore to deal with; increasing the distance that traps can be set between one another. And may be also making players trigger them?

- How about a tag of the level of value an item is, which would specify whether it would disappear (if unstacked) from the ground?

 

People say they like this game so much because of so many hours they pour into the game. I'm gonna bet you, at least half of that time is just spent doing menial crap instead of adventuring, pleading for your survival and exploring. Picking up resources isn't menial if you don't have to do it repetitively every now and then for 10 goddamn minutes.

Should be in Suggestions section probably? Klei doesn't care about that section.

 

Are there any other things that feel like grind in the game that you just can't stand that I might have not mentioned? What solutions would you propose?

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2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

..make the game harder and make hound attacks more intense than just being a boringly necessary chore to deal with; increasing the distance that traps can be set between one another. And may be also making players trigger them?

You don't need traps. No one and nothing forces you to make traps. Get gear and tank all dogs, all late-game dog-waves, 12 or how many of them are - that way you get to also use your huge amount of materials piled over time and such. You are a great player, the kind that kites DF day 2 without armor and walls for larvae? Great! Kite all dog waves, am sure you can handle it in this case. Takes time? Just think at the sweet adrenaline rush, that great feeling of being on top, god of battlefield and whatnot. Smack them all! Wooo-HAA!!

Also you don't actually need a base, thus no "menial crap" at all. You're a fan of forced scarcity, practice what you preach: be a true nomad! You can explore to your heart's content. Just drop at beginning an Alchemy (even Shadow Manipulator), research what you need, then burn it (the true manly-man way, arrr!) and hop-hop, clapping your heels into sunset: you're good to go punching nature in its nether, sensible parts!

 

The "specify an amount of a certain item I want to craft and then craft it" seems reasonable. Most likely will not be implemented or be in a "years after" future. Still a reasonable suggestion.

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3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

People say they like this game so much because of so many hours they pour into the game. I'm gonna bet you, at least half of that time is just spent afk for skins, pleading for your survival and exploring.

FTFY

     Back on topic, I think these "menial" tasks adds to the survival aspect of the game. Survival games aren't typically fast-paced and require time to complete tasks (it wouldn't make sense irl to be able to gather so quickly). It wouldn't be so immersive for newer players if you could just reap grass tufts instantly.

     By removing these tiny tasks, you encourage players to become impatient by developing the mindset you have in your argument (i.e. if a task is too simple, repetitive and/or nagging, but is required of you, it becomes uninteresting and a chore). This in turn drives away players because the game becomes grindier even quicker. It sounds counterproductive, but think about it. Hypothetically, let's say you could craft grass in the refine tab for no cost. It would be too easy to obtain, and no longer interesting, making it no longer a part of the game; but it still is a part of the game because you need grass to do stuff. By trivializing these tasks, you make them nuisances, and they become push factors from the game. 

     Most veteran players who no longer experience difficulty surviving tend to find these tasks more dull, because, as you said, they're basic tasks that you have to do to move on to over larger tasks (exploration, boss fights). For them, these tasks are already trivial because they're already experts at survival.

Needless to say, there are several mods that speed up these tasks. Auto-clean mods can also get rid of items no one picks up (stingers, rot) which is important for Endless servers that may accumulate lag over time.
Quick Pick (speeds up picking and gathering)
Auto-reset Tooth Trap
Lazy Crafting (mass crafting)
Lazy Furnace (mass cooking)

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3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

There's so many things that are so dull to do after a while just over and over again.

<snip>

  • Picking up items - Agreed, for dropped items I'd really appreciate if logs, grass, rocks etc would be auto-stacked the way that monster meat, hounds teeth and rot are currently. For harvesting things like berry bushes bee boxes etc, you can always use Gather Dash. I don't think the latter should be part of the game, as it's supposed to nudge you to upgrade to things that don't require the grinding, ie. Twiggy trees, Grass gekkos, better crock pot dishes. I gathered 3-5 bundles of berries and then dug the bushes up - I just don't use them anymore - the monster meat from hounds, eggs from leafy meat from a couple of lureplants and stockpiled frog legs from frog rain + beefalo in heat are plenty enough to sustain me on bacon'n'eggs.
  • Refining a bunch of items - hmmm..
    Quote

    And it seems like there's got to be a more efficient way to make brick walls than watching a furnace smelt each individual brick with the speed of a pensioner on a zebra crossing.

    But then again, part of the appeal of building is the effort required to gather materials.

    If you're bothered with it, make use of Action Queue, play Winona, or, you're the admin, enable Lazy Crafting. I would welcome the action-queue-like functionality being standard in the game, Lazy crafting not so much.

  • Resetting traps - tooth traps? See gather dash above. Bird/small traps? Oh god, YES - picking up the trap with the catch is the wrong thing to do in 99.9% of cases - as admin, I just use Trap Reset and chalk up the bass-ackward action behaviour to this mechanic dating back to when the game engine was "more primitive".

  • Unusued items - just let a lureplant eat it.

  • Lazy forager - before Cave Holes were introduced, I considered it a joke item ("You wasted an orange gem on this?"), kinda like wet goop. Now it's just annoying, as it still picks up stacks item-by-item. :wilson_facepalm: Make it pick up whole stacks, and together with auto-stacking mentioned above, I'll have a reason to have one in every farm area. I have noticed the Void gem mod which takes the lazy forager feature, puts on some bells and whistles (item filtering, built-in container, item removal) and puts it to a new item.

 

 

29 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I just do the run to the neighboring swamp for that.:wilson_ecstatic:

And risk burning reeds? No thanks.. :wilson_dilemma:

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I had never problems with crafting a huge amount of items. Atleast this provide me a small feeling of credibility. However it would be a cool mod idea. Like, a saw mill cut 20 logs into 5 Boards.

I wish rot would despawn after some time. I collect every rot to keep my world clean. Most of them go in the fire.

 

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6 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The prestihatinator (and by extension, the magic tab in general) forces you to make traps.

Theoretically, you can pick rabbits fallen from the ceiling in caves, or discovered in tumbleweeds, or chase them into a lureplant. The lureplant also works for birds. :wilson_laugh:

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31 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The prestihatinator (and by extension, the magic tab in general) forces you to make traps.

He was writing about Tooth Traps for dogs, not the rabbits variety. Those you usually make one, catch 4 rabbits digging them up because why wait for RNG and that's it. Sure newbies and some nomads use those too for whatever reason (variety, challenge, wicked fun); but I assume OP being such great player the game is incredibly boring for him and DST core-concepts don't even appeal his preferences anymore, he's probably not using Rabbit Traps (as for Spiders just spamming F etc).

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Although it is understandable first, why "picking up 200 logs" is boring, but it's still part of the game. If you don't like some parts of the game, find ways to avoid/replace them, or use mods. And what would come next, if Klei would implement something to "get rid of the unnecessary grind"?
- "picking up 200 logs is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "picking grass is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "fighting hounds is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "fighting spiders is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "killing Deerclops every year is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "killing Antlion and the other bosses regularly is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "clearing the ruins for thulecite is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "crafting 100 chests and drying racks is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "making a megabase is boring grinding, should be done by one click"

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Should be in Suggestions section probably? Klei doesn't care about that section.

Putting it here has surely increased the chance that Klei will immediately implement your suggestions.

The fact that Klei doesn't respond to and implement every single suggestion in that subforum doesn't mean that they don't read and consider them.

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4 hours ago, axxel said:

I collect every rot to keep my world clean. Most of them go in the fire.

ashes for healing salves      .....   and pet food prenium quality :encouragement:

 

For all the reason cited below, the lazy forager is now for me a very important item. It does make a big difference.

Me and especially my gf can't stand anymore the "ting!  ting!" noise you make when picking up stuff from the ground.

Lazy forager don't remove the sound but whatever..

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This sounds like a premium reason to get into modding if there ever was one. You can damn near bend this game to your will and shape it the way you like if you have the know-how. I'd say nearly everything you suggested could be accomplished via modding. So, instead of hoping Klei will change the game to suit you (not likely), maybe you should start working on making those changes yourself. I know there's plenty of guides and tutorials to help people get into modding if you don't know how to get started. That's the suggestion I propose.

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Having to take time to pick up logs etc. can increase excitement, since you only have a limited amount of time left before you kind of die by several means. Some people actually like that. There's a certain appeal to having the loot you want drop in the middle of 47 tentacles, just daring you to go in and grab one thing before they can strike.

Plus it develops empathy for the characters, who actually have to go picking all this stuff up. Take "Oxygen Not Included" for example, where the characters are about as empathizable as tinker toys because all you can do is point at what they should do, and just kind of sit there hoping that they do it.

At the same time I can understand wanting to alleviate some of the repetition and tedium. Late game items that could clean up large areas or sort chests would be awesome, since at that point the amount of busywork starts getting ridiculously high.

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8 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

     Back on topic, I think these "menial" tasks adds to the survival aspect of the game. Survival games aren't typically fast-paced and require time to complete tasks (it wouldn't make sense irl to be able to gather so quickly). It wouldn't be so immersive for newer players if you could just reap grass tufts instantly.

     By removing these tiny tasks, you encourage players to become impatient by developing the mindset you have in your argument (i.e. if a task is too simple, repetitive and/or nagging, but is required of you, it becomes uninteresting and a chore). This in turn drives away players because the game becomes grindier even quicker. It sounds counterproductive, but think about it. Hypothetically, let's say you could craft grass in the refine tab for no cost. It would be too easy to obtain, and no longer interesting, making it no longer a part of the game; but it still is a part of the game because you need grass to do stuff. By trivializing these tasks, you make them nuisances, and they become push factors from the game. 

Strawman much? At any point did I come off as if I would be glad for cut grass to be possible to craft for no resources? A lazy forager isn't something a newcomer could easily obtain, would it?

You KNOW I value game design more than anything, but considering the direction Klei has taken, making things less grindy in some way in the LONG run doesn't seem unreasonable. Your point could be applied to if someone suggested Wigfrid as a character with her helmet and you posted "but the difficulty and the grind to get football helmets makes things more immersive...", blah blah.

Point of games is to be fun. Grind is essentially the opposite of fun, as for designing a good game in any way, there needs to be some sort of balance that doesn't drive the game dull or unbearable in one way or another.

Stop strawmaning, address the point.

10 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

You don't need traps. No one and nothing forces you to make traps. Get gear and tank all dogs, all late-game dog-waves, 12 or how many of them are - that way you get to also use your huge amount of materials piled over time and such. You are a great player, the kind that kites DF day 2 without armor and walls for larvae? Great! Kite all dog waves, am sure you can handle it in this case. Takes time? Just think at the sweet adrenaline rush, that great feeling of being on top, god of battlefield and whatnot. Smack them all! Wooo-HAA!!

You don't seem to understand the logic of urgency and focus for survival either, do you? Players will sturggle to fight things in a survival scenario, so to survive, they will look for ways to deal with the problem, that's human nature, you can't change that. Why has the idea of tweaking the balance of tooth traps triggered you into going full-sarcasm mode? To make fun of something without actually addressing the points, because you know people will agree with you?

 

8 hours ago, myxal said:
  • Picking up items - Agreed, for dropped items I'd really appreciate if logs, grass, rocks etc would be auto-stacked the way that monster meat, hounds teeth and rot are currently. For harvesting things like berry bushes bee boxes etc, you can always use Gather Dash. I don't think the latter should be part of the game, as it's supposed to nudge you to upgrade to things that don't require the grinding, ie. Twiggy trees, Grass gekkos, better crock pot dishes. I gathered 3-5 bundles of berries and then dug the bushes up - I just don't use them anymore - the monster meat from hounds, eggs from leafy meat from a couple of lureplants and stockpiled frog legs from frog rain + beefalo in heat are plenty enough to sustain me on bacon'n'eggs.

But...

13 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

* Harvesting a bunch of things < lureplant

...how exactly did you read what I wrote, may I ask? Missed that bit may be?

 

3 hours ago, Casm said:

This sounds like a premium reason to get into modding if there ever was one. You can damn near bend this game to your will and shape it the way you like if you have the know-how. I'd say nearly everything you suggested could be accomplished via modding. So, instead of hoping Klei will change the game to suit you (not likely), maybe you should start working on making those changes yourself. I know there's plenty of guides and tutorials to help people get into modding if you don't know how to get started. That's the suggestion I propose.

So, the community's response to Klei not taking a good look at feedback is, don't give feedback, because Klei won't care for it. And that's your suggestion? There's meta levels of irony in that thought alone :p

I will get to modding when I get more free time, but that doesn't mean that you can't talk about things that could be changed within the game and discuss what could be better suitable for the game.

 

5 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Although it is understandable first, why "picking up 200 logs" is boring, but it's still part of the game. If you don't like some parts of the game, find ways to avoid/replace them, or use mods. And what would come next, if Klei would implement something to "get rid of the unnecessary grind"?
- "picking up 200 logs is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "picking grass is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "fighting hounds is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "fighting spiders is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "killing Deerclops every year is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "killing Antlion and the other bosses regularly is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "clearing the ruins for thulecite is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "crafting 100 chests and drying racks is boring grinding, should be done by one click"
- "making a megabase is boring grinding, should be done by one click"

Putting it here has surely increased the chance that Klei will immediately implement your suggestions.

The fact that Klei doesn't respond to and implement every single suggestion in that subforum doesn't mean that they don't read and consider them.

Again an over-exaggerated and misunderstood perspective of what I was trying to say. Excellent! -_- Doing things just with 1 click would get boring very quickly too. That's why making things engaging lies between the two; not being too repetitive to a point where the sheer repetitiveness makes things boring, and making sure things aren't too easy to accomplish so that the satisfaction isn't so flat that you think "well, that happened/I did that, I guess".

It has increased the chance of the community taking a look at it for sure, and part of the topic's purpose was to see what things people find too repetitive/not engaging enough as well. But as for Klei, I don't even know at this point. If they don't listen, that doesn't mean you should stop giving feedback.

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I'm pretty sure I didn't say, "Don't give feedback because Klei won't care for it". So, that's just you putting words in my mouth. What I did say though is you shouldn't expect Klei to cater to you and shape the game to suit your needs. Mainly because your wants and needs don't reflect everybody's wants and needs.

But, if you'll get to modding when you have free time, then it sounds like your problems are solved. Feel free to to discuss more if you like, but there really isn't any need for Klei to change anything when you can do it yourself.

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3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Strawman much? At any point did I come off as if I would be glad for cut grass to be possible to craft for no resources? A lazy forager isn't something a newcomer could easily obtain, would it?

You KNOW I value game design more than anything, but considering the direction Klei has taken, making things less grindy in some way in the LONG run doesn't seem unreasonable. Your point could be applied to if someone suggested Wigfrid as a character with her helmet and you posted "but the difficulty and the grind to get football helmets makes things more immersive...", blah blah.

Point of games is to be fun. Grind is essentially the opposite of fun, as for designing a good game in any way, there needs to be some sort of balance that doesn't drive the game dull or unbearable in one way or another.

Stop strawmaning, address the point.

     I misinterpreted your original post; the word grind threw me off. I thought you were saying collecting basic resources constantly felt too much like grinding out a chore (I wouldn't even consider it grinding since how quickly and efficiently you gather resources can be greatly influenced by the player's skill and game knowledge). Refining grass was just a hypothetical extreme of making resources easier to grind out to the point where it becomes annoying (probably wasn't the best example). 

     It wouldn't make sense to compare crafting Wigfrid's battle helms to football helmets. That's a character perk that's meant to alter your gameplay (encouraging combat). The straight up difficult or resources required to execute a task doesn't equate to immersive gameplay, but there are certain thresholds of difficulty/resources that make the game more interesting. A more tame example than my last one would be preparing for a boss fight. Deerclops, for example, isn't very interesting. It isn't so difficult to kite him with a spear and log suit since his kiting pattern is so simple. This would be an example where the difficulty threshold is set too low. Fuelweaver on the other hand requires much more preparation, and an understanding of how the mechanics of the fight work. It stands out more and is considered by many to be the hardest boss to defeat, which makes it all the more rewarding when you do defeat him. Of course this all varies from player to player. Newer players may not be proficient in combat and find Deerclops difficult to deal with. On the contrary, you could fight Fuelweaver as Wes with no weather pains and a hambat.

     I don't think I understand what you mean by picking up items being too much of a time sink. If you're picking up so many items that it actually takes a chunk out of your time, you're probably collecting efficiently anyway (e.g. trading trinkets with Pig King, farming logs with Toadstool, harvesting a semi-automatic grass gekko farm). 

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There are some existing mods that you might be interested in.

  • Lazy Crafting does have kind of a snooty name, but it's pretty simple: put stuff in alchemy engine, get stuff out. A little clunky since it's not time based, but just dumps it out when you open the inventory again.
  • Lazy Furnace same idea, less fancy, just replaces with the burned items (again not after a delay) in the inventory. Makes charcoal entirely too easy.
  • Void Gem already mentioned, basically a Lazy Forager for admins, mostly for just destroying items left lying around. Does have a version that picks up stacks, unlike the Lazy Forager, but there's no durability.
  • Vacuum Chest clean up your base, automatically!
  • Reset Trap resets traps, instead of picking them up. See also Auto Retrap, Trap Auto-reset
  • Better Tooth Traps space bar doesn't pick up tooth traps, but resets them.
  • Auto Tooth Trap Reset tooth traps reset on their own after a few seconds.
  • Quick Actions make harvesting grass as fast as picking a carrot, I guess.
  • Scythes make harvesting grass fast as picking a carrot, with tool durability.
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8 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

So, the community's response to Klei not taking a good look at feedback is, don't give feedback, because Klei won't care for it. And that's your suggestion? There's meta levels of irony in that thought alone :p

"Klei neither did respond to, nor did implement my suggestions. They don't care about it." ... Maybe they don't think it's worth to implement them? Or just simply don't like them?

Of course you should give your feedback and of course Klei will look at it (when they have time, not necessarily immediately), but they don't have to agree with them and shape the game to your taste. If Klei didn't implement your suggestions, then they either don't want to or have more important stuff to do. 

You say that grinding is boring and bad, and alone with that, I can agree. But you're speaking as if playing this game were a terrible torture. DS/T exists for several years now, and I didn't hear many others who saw this problem that tragical. Sure, picking a ton of grass is boring, so after (or even instead of) you make your suggestions, go and look out for some existing solutins. Apart from mods you can use lureplants (even for collecting logs) amulets, or you could try to reduce the materials you need by crafting less stuff. If you don't want to grind 10 minutes long (which is fully understandable), do only a part of it and come back later to continue. 

9 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Doing things just with 1 click would get boring very quickly too. That's why making things engaging lies between the two; not being too repetitive to a point where the sheer repetitiveness makes things boring, and making sure things aren't too easy to accomplish so that the satisfaction isn't so flat that you think "well, that happened/I did that, I guess".

The game has repetitive feature, true, but it's its nature. And you can even avoid most of them. Want more resources? You have to pick more. Want a bigger base? You have to craft more. (Pick Winona! ;)) It's something for something.

I don't see how could this be less grinding without making it overpowered. With an action-queue, you (the player) will have to sit there and instead of clicking/pressing buttons, you just wait and stare at the screen for the same time as now. If the process would be made faster, that would be just a step into the direction of instant-building. 

21 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

- Here's a very easy solution that will make the game harder and make hound attacks more intense than just being a boringly necessary chore to deal with; increasing the distance that traps can be set between one another.

I think it would just make more people rely on beefalos/pigmen/bunnymen/etc, not the game harder.

21 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

And may be also making players trigger them?

I can already see the trolls hiding traps behind structures and trees. 

 

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14 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

You don't seem to understand the logic of urgency and focus for survival either, do you? Players will sturggle to fight things in a survival scenario, so to survive, they will look for ways to deal with the problem, that's human nature, you can't change that. Why has the idea of tweaking the balance of tooth traps triggered you into going full-sarcasm mode? To make fun of something without actually addressing the points, because you know people will agree with you?

Because, again, like with majority of your posts, is a (highly) subjective matter. Not to mention a conflicting one: in some posts you advocate harder settings leaning into said forced scarcity for nomad survival, in other you backup aspects that rather negate said desired scarcity - like with this post (auto-resetting traps, mass refining resources and such are making your life easier - even if those actions have a repetitive element, but consistent in my opinion regarding game-play); and no, is not "balance", comes more as purely cluttered thoughts in spur of the moment, kinda like rage. Thus your logic seems all over the place and its urgency just in your mind - as stated, subjective stir. You go on and on about this game's survival aspect as being its central feature - it isn't. The sandbox and social aspects have much bigger roles, especially in mid-to-late game (where raid super-bosses becomes a focal point too). Yes, like many stated and is painfully obvious by now, you don't like what DST is atm and repeatedly go back to "needs to be more survival-y", once more the forced scarcity thingy. Yet you don't like mundane chores of picking stuff - a (consistent) must of the survival aspect - in mid/late game (even though you have the Lazy Forager option) - contradictions, contradictions.

 

Bottom line: if you don't like (subjectively) game-play aspects of DST, use/make mods to solve your perceived problems. Others (as in probably most - see above posts) don't feel like you do (me included). Klei has other priorities than to cater to your desires. If you don't like the present game-play as a whole (as it seems to be the case), maybe move on?! Making post after post belittling it won't help you and, as you saw by now, don't get any traction - as your opinions are in a very-VERY small minority (or blatantly opposed by vast majority of posters, and for good reasons - see the conflicting aspect or the fact you aren't making viable propositions or any sensible solutions for that matter).

 

PS: it wasn't just sarcasm my first post, you can totally tank/kite late-game dog waves, even more so if you're playing Wolf/Wig or have a play mate in your runs. Nomad play-style is also a perfectly viable way of experimenting DS/T (assumed scarcity), a hefty sum of my friends do it and I also go for it at times (contextual or as challenge).

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12 hours ago, Casm said:

I'm pretty sure I didn't say, "Don't give feedback because Klei won't care for it". So, that's just you putting words in my mouth. What I did say though is you shouldn't expect Klei to cater to you and shape the game to suit your needs. Mainly because your wants and needs don't reflect everybody's wants and needs.

But, if you'll get to modding when you have free time, then it sounds like your problems are solved. Feel free to to discuss more if you like, but there really isn't any need for Klei to change anything when you can do it yourself.

They've been told this exact same thing in the multitudes of threads they've made before. They actually believe that the 15 dollars they spent on this game makes Klei obligated to bend over backwards and listen to them. The whole idea of "suggestion" isn't a thing here because this person actually believes they know exactly what this game needs and doesn't understand that people feel differently than they do.

 

Telling this person to go mod to solve their problems is trying to talk a brick wall into moving itself. They don't consider it an actual solution to put what they want in the game, you're just going to be verbally bashed in a paragraph format for not sharing the same opinion.

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(claps)  What XXversusXY said, basically.

The problem is, you seem to be under the impression that if YOU want something really badly, it must happen.  But Klei is under no obligation whatsoever to make MAJOR, SWEEPING GAMEPLAY CHANGES because of just _one_ person's opinion!  Whenever they have, it's been minor tweaks after lots and lots of popular complaining/suggestions (see how they _mildly_ unnerfed Willow...after over a year of her original DST self).  Just because they don't listen to you doesn't mean they don't listen to player suggestions at all; it simply means that _you are not the most important player in the world_.

Seriously, the ENTITLEMENT most of your posts give off!  Sheesh!

And if you want forced scarcity that badly...in addition to mods, there's also world-gen settings where you turn things down to "less".  Unfortunately that's not the amount of "less" I would've expected..but there's mods for that too.

Changing your _own_ personal game to better fit your preferences is just fine, and lots of people do it. Forcing EVERYBODY to accept your changes as a canon, permanent thing, however...is not.

And yes, I know this is futile--I've bashed my head against this particular brick wall so many times in the past, I've got him on my ignore list!--I just...I have to, sometimes.  The arrogance just _demands_ it.

...Notorious

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