Something to stop the Dragonfly wall cheese?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

hold on wait
I just realized, wouldn't using stacks of gunpowder also be a sort of cheese because they can just "skip" a large amount of health at a time?

for that is made but somepeople refuses to use it, instead come with suggestions that wont fit in a game where followers, gunpowder, darts, celestial portal, etc exists

[Nettalie]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

for that is made but somepeople refuses to use it, instead come with suggestions that wont fit in a game where followers, gunpowder, darts, celestial portal, etc exists

im sorry i did not quite understand what you mean

[1bubbainpa]

Oh god we’re discussing cheesing again.

For every topic that discusses what qualifies as cheesing in this sandbox game, there’s a myriad of responses that declares what the actual cheesing boundaries are in this game, and it devolves into arguments about whose vision of cheesing is right, goes on for like 4-6 pages, and then the thread gets locked.

So I’m not trying to act like a forum policeman here, but good lord people recognize that other people have preferences on how they want to play this game or kill bosses. Just cause people don’t do it your way or in a way that seems “cheese” doesn’t mean it’s the wrong way.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

im sorry i did not quite understand what you mean

that there is a lot of tools to deal with bosses

[Nettalie]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that there is a lot of tools to deal with bosses

aaaaaaah
sorry lol

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

When are people going to just start being honest? The reason WHY people use those walls is because it’s the most effective & easiest way..

Sry, who isn't being honest about this? lol  Of course using a wall, with fan flute, good armor and weapons, and especially with Wolfgang and/or friends, maybe a beefalo and ice staff etc will make the fight easier.  Is someone saying building walls makes it harder? lol  Did someone share a zero damage, no wall or pan flute fight and others said it wasn't impressive?

I mean - I watch this and I'm impressed

Spoiler

 

There is no doubt some serious practice and skill going into this.  But do you want to do this every time you fight her?  I don't lol

[g4br1elsm]

Totally agree, and because now Walrus and other mobs run from you after being hit, we need to spend more ice staves to kill it. If don't want to chase.

[NightfallsCurse]

Simple, then don't set up walls and you shouldn't care if people use the method, we all have our own ways in killing bosses

Edit: If you really want to stop it, there's another way to stop it, make a mod for it, I'm sure others have your opinion too and would subscribe to it

[Queron81]

14 hours ago, CodexCorporis said:

okay but........ if you don't wanna use the walls, fight her on the other side of them? you can just go around them yknow

I think the other players who are fighting with me wouldn't be very amused if I would do that

15 hours ago, ALCRD said:

It's a public server you can make you own if you don't agree how people play. Or break the walls and fight it like normal. No one is forcing you anything. It's just aftermath of someone doing Dfly with wall method.

Sorry, but I don't break walls other people are building, that would be griefing. And I don't want to force other people to play this fight how I want.

15 hours ago, ALCRD said:

On side note: Frankly i see Catapults around Bee Queen's nest more often than Walls around Dragonfly ponds on pubs.

I saw catapults only once on BQ fight. Most pubs I'm playing in are lacking a Winona (and not every Winona is placing catapults). But the walls at DF are always there (if there are enough people on the server playing for some longer).

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

I think the other players who are fighting with me wouldn't be very amused if I would do that

Sorry, but I don't break walls other people are building, that would be griefing. And I don't want to force other people to play this fight how I want.

I saw catapults only once on BQ fight. Most pubs I'm playing in are lacking a Winona (and not every Winona is placing catapults). But the walls at DF are always there (if there are enough people on the server playing for some longer).

You can load up a solo world and do the fight just for the enjoyment of it.  Especially on pub games people are going to play more risk averse, since they may not have reliable allies to res them, and might leave if they turn ghost rather than hit everyone with sanity penalty, waiting for whenever someone can finally res them.

Or just rush it first.  Get there and start it before they do.

[Queron81]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

You can load up a solo world and do the fight just for the enjoyment of it.  Especially on pub games people are going to play more risk averse, since they may not have reliable allies to res them, and might leave if they turn ghost rather than hit everyone with sanity penalty, waiting for whenever someone can finally res them.

Or just rush it first.  Get there and start it before they do.

I like to play Don't Starve TOGETHER together with other players. I like to fight bosses together with others. But it would be nice, if a mechanic of a boss wouldn't been always taken out of the game just by building a lot of walls. That is so... pointless.

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Queron81 said:

I like to play Don't Starve TOGETHER together with other players. I like to fight bosses together with others. But it would be nice, if a mechanic of a boss wouldn't been always taken out of the game just by building a lot of walls. That is so... pointless.

Its not always taken out of the game.  Its only taken out when people want to build walls.  Just like damage is severely mitigated by armor.  You could always not wear armor if you wanted.  Just find people who want to play similar to you and group up.  In pubs you're *always* going to deal with people doing other things, none of us are exempt from that.

[Mike23Ua]

wouldn’t it just be easier if I could change the biome she spawns in into one where structures can’t be placed on it? Would solve a ton of problems all in one hit, people who want to fight her with walls can use the version that allows walls.. and people who don’t want walls involved, can use the turf that ensures people aren’t planting walls.

Two birds- one stone.

However… in the end it is Klei’s decision and just like with many other things about the game, if they feel it needs changing they will change it.

They have hinted that Ancient Guardian is getting a reworking- and my personal view on that is now that Beefalo can go into caves this fight would be an excellent choice for a Beef vs AG battle.

But in the end: It’s Klei’s choice what they change or don’t change, we adapt to it and we come up with new strategy’s.

Personally I don’t see building walls in Dragonfly’s biome as “Cheese” but at the exact same time: I can understand why some people are frustrated that that is pretty much the only way a good majority of people will allow them to fight it.

Two birds with one stone isn’t just a metaphor.. it quite literally lets both types of players have their walls or not have walls.

[Yuuko]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

wouldn’t it just be easier if I could change the biome she spawns in into one where structures can’t be placed on it? Would solve a ton of problems all in one hit, people who want to fight her with walls can use the version that allows walls.. and people who don’t want walls involved, can use the turf that ensures people aren’t planting walls.

Nothing needs to be done - people who don't want to use walls can simply not build walls.  This is already a feature in the game.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I see no point to removing the wall cheese method due to the lack of loot it gives. Some gems are nice but I tend to spend my time in ruins doing work and resetting to get more of them than from the fly. 
Dragonfly only gives a statue print and scaled furnace for what recipes, otherwise she's then only useful as a scale farm more than anything. Klei would need to revamp her entirely and add better loot to make the fight to have a point to fight FOR rather than now buff her without the purpose of to 'why'
Scaled furnaces are nice but they are just that. 'Nice'. Scales for floorings, chests, rarely scale suits for specific purposes.
1-2 gem of each kind is nice but then again - ruins. I wouldn't waste my time fighting it over nothing. 

I think the true target of discussion would likely more be Crab King worthier than Dfly unless something about having a second version of Dfly to give that challenge and better loot (more ruin gems and new weapon?)

[ALCRD]

6 hours ago, Queron81 said:

And I don't want to force other people to play this fight how I want.

Yea you kind of do from the looks of your posts. 

People like OP need to learn that in any multiplayer game ever. Not everyone share a hive mind with you and will not always agree with tactics that you want or find same things "fun" as you.

Wanting removal or nerf of said tactics or features from the game is not a way to handle this. Especially since this affects solo players also. OP and people who agree with OP just want to force everyone to play their way regardless if its solo or together.

Playing together requires cooperarion and compromises. Find people who think like you. Or play solo if you can't handle people not wanting to do "your way".

6 hours ago, Queron81 said:

But the walls at DF are always there

No they are not. Like i said i seen catapults around BQ more often than walls around Dfly. 

Many times i been on pubs even post celestial champion with Dfly lacking any kind of walls.

And when they are its usually a long wall cause its easier to set up than pond pens. (Occassionally i see a player pen) Fight on other side of it. Problem solved.

[AlternateMew]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

A problem that surges directly from the boss fight itself, in contrast: If Klei made the fight actually easier to do and the boss didn’t have ridiculous levels of health &/or larvae minions, more people would actually play the fight without building walls.

Hey there, hold up. I protest the health thing. 

Bosses having absurd levels of health splits the game into two ways to play;
Harder not Smarter (Multiplayer) - where a team of people gang up and take out the boss in more traditional ways
Smarter not Harder (Singleplayer) - where individuals need to rely on less direct combat and more finding ways to make the environment combat the boss instead of the player.

Building walls is a way to make the environment combat Dragonfly. It's the little tiny survivor using brains and builds to combat the kaiju instead of the big guy being beaten up by some puny runt with a sharp shadow. Sure, walls may be the go-to. That's not a bad thing, it's just a 'Hey look, I have a plan' thing.

[axxel]

Walls make the fight easier. Statue walls in the lunar staff event is a real cheesing strat.

[marioespinho]

ZombieDupe has to be the most anti-cheese player i have ever seen 

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

ZombieDupe has to be the most anti-cheese player i have ever seen 

There is only one way to play the game and that is the way i want

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

There is only one way to play the game and that is the way i want

That’s not true in the slightest- I’ve joined servers where the host had Sanity monsters turned completely off.. which meant I could LEAVE and find a different server to join OR I could accept it as an additional challenge and have to look for alternate methods of obtaining nightmare fuel.

You play the game the way the HOST has it set to be played OR you find a new server to join/host your own there aren’t any other options.

Most of you people don’t play on Xbox, so your used to features XBOX (and exclusively just the Xbox..) does not have- like Public or Klei Servers, for Xbox players it’s a little bit different: Because the only servers WE Can join are the ones we host ourselves or someone else is hosting.

Because of this: I encounter these worlds where people have altered world Gen settings far more then you guys probably ever do.. and anyone who plays this game on an Xbox console can probably agree.

But my point is that unless you LEAVE that hosts world: You play by THEIR Rules.

[Snugrugbug]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s not true in the slightest- I’ve joined servers where the host had Sanity monsters turned completely off.. which meant I could LEAVE and find a different server to join OR I could accept it as an additional challenge and have to look for alternate methods of obtaining nightmare fuel.

You play the game the way the HOST has it set to be played OR you find a new server to join/host your own there aren’t any other options.

Most of you people don’t play on Xbox, so your used to features XBOX (and exclusively just the Xbox..) does not have- like Public or Klei Servers, for Xbox players it’s a little bit different: Because the only servers WE Can join are the ones we host ourselves or someone else is hosting.

Because of this: I encounter these worlds where people have altered world Gen settings far more then you guys probably ever do.. and anyone who plays this game on an Xbox console can probably agree.

But my point is that unless you LEAVE that hosts world: You play by THEIR Rules.

Even I could tell they were being sarcastic

[NightfallsCurse]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:34 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I took this photo today by the way. 0.89%

There are so much new players on console, am I right? I can only find good players on the DST official club! (I post there too, call me a beefalo expert and wendy profession)

[prettynuggets]

people start to think cheesing is bad ..

well i dont think it is ..

people INVENT the cheese . its part of game strategy . its come from many tries and error . just like one do with fast hand skill .
it require people to think outside the box how to make the fight easier for themself . even it require some preparation in advance .

as much as the people who fight legitly with alots of practice . so does the cheese . i still remember trying the least resource consuming when spawning tentacle for early bq farm as wicker . how does one find the perfect spot to cheese larvae so only need 12 rocks and 1 board to cheese it .

how does i find cheesing klaus posible with boat 
when i found out wanda range is great to farm bunnymen in cage with alarming clock for farming krampus .

as i feel the fun when i found the best strategy i could find to get the loot of the stuff i want cus i want beautiful bases .

listen kid behind many easy cheese kill there is a lot of thinking trial and eror plus some frustration of many rollbacks behind it .

[Mike23Ua]

I think the OP is wrong to call building walls cheese, if Klei intends it then it’s a valid tactic, but if it’s something Klei DOES NOT Intend, then it’s not cheesing, it’s cheating & like it or not they will fix it (eventually)

I don’t think building walls is “wrong” so to say, but I do think it gets to a point of being highly annoying when every server you join has people using that tactic because it’s the tactic that’s most commonly known & used.

Even if you want to fight it without walls involved, too bad someone’s going to come along and say Let there be Wall!

Certain mobs can destroy walls (like spider) and other mobs just endlessly walk into them (like hound or pig) and then there are other mobs who path all the way around the wall you build trying to find a way inside to you.

If Klei WANTS to change this fight, they will change it how they want it to play: however…

With as many people who use the “Wall them off method” they would cause widespread anger and frustration amongst their forums.

A problem that could be avoided altogether if only they would add something like a world Gen toggle that lets you choose if walls can be placed in the fight or not.

or to simply update walls themselves to be damagable by the Larvae.

it allows BOTH Types of players to have the type of fight they’re craving for without having to do the fight one way over the other.

If you join a server and you go to Dragonfly’s biome and you can’t place a wall- if you wanted to put up walls, then you LEAVE and find a new server that allows them.

Disregarding all the developmental process: (that’s none of my business I’m no game programmer I’ll leave all that to Klei to figure out.) This is the simplest way to satisfy both the camp of players who want “Let there be wall!” AND the camp who want “Please Klei can you do something to prevent walls being used on Dragonfly?”

Everyone is happy, all players end up satisfied.