Something to stop the Dragonfly wall cheese?

[goblinball]

Have you ever considered that maybe if dfly wall strats haven’t been “fixed” yet, they are likely here to stay, maybe even intentional?

 

Also I know I’m just beating a dead horse at this point but just fight dfly without walls if you want to, there’s really no point in forcing everyone to do the fight wallless just because you believe it’s not fun or smth. The constant doesn’t revolve around you, let people enjoy the game how they want to.

[Yuuko]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I agree. I should have prefaced that I'm referring to surrounding the pools with walls. I should also mention that I don't mind the exploits, I just don't think that the walls qualify for so much scrutiny, as that's literally the purpose of the walls (once again, referring to the not-AI abusing method)

I mean - build a wall around each pond => same effect as build 1 wall utilizing a pond or sign.  Its the same concept, just a matter of efficiency.  There is a lot of gray area in what people consider cheese and not, mostly coming down to personal perceived "intention of the designers."

52 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

The problem is: currently people are forcing everyone to play how they want by building those walls. I was never on a server where someone didn't build those walls, I have never fought against the Dragonfly without those walls. They could just remove lavae as they don't have any purpose.

Most people build a single wall.  You can fight on the other side of it and get all the lavea you want, or just go there first.  The lavea do have a purpose - which is that players get to play around them.  Whether this is feeling clever building a wall, or using an ice staff, or some other strategy they are still part of the fight.

I think a LOT of disrespect comes down unfairly on people who use these methods.  The game is a sand box, not a combat sim.  This isn't dark souls.  We're given the ability to craft walls the same way we can craft hambats, dark swords, and ice staves.  If we use walls that's us playing the game.  If you don't want to use walls, that's you playing the game.  You can always load up your own world solo to fight dfly however you want just for funsies.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah which goes back to my point I said several hours ago, if I’m the host of the world.. why do I NOT have the option to have the floor that Dragonfly’s fight takes place on be like it is now where players can place structures upon it, OR be like the Jungle Biome in the Hamlet DLC that prevents the player from placing structures anywhere in the area?

What you're asking for here goes far beyond world-gen settings, to the point of being simply outrageous.  You want a game setting that says "don't allow player structures around ..." ??

If there was ever a time to say "build your own mod" this is it.  This is such a crazy, niche, and unneeded change to the game where if you want it, you should dedicate your own time to building it.  I suggest at this point you just buy a pc and switch over if this is what you want the game to have.  If THIS is your demand for DST on console, you might as well quit the game.

I gotta say I find it a bit odd though, that you'd have such strong feelings about this when you say you have no reason to fight dfly since it only gives a reward, that you've only killed dfly 3 times, and that your preferred strategy against bosses is gunpowder.......

I mean, play the game how you want but if that's your position, to nuke every boss with gunpowder so as to completely sidestep any aspect of combat involved...  how can you be so strongly against other players building a wall...?  To fight a boss you yourself said you aren't even going after?

[Mike23Ua]

Easy, because over on Xbox at least- there is not and to the best of my knowledge has never been a such thing as Public servers or Klei Dedicated officials, PLAYSTATION and PC have those- Xbox does not and NEVER had them, and that’s exactly why Forge was never on Xbox (again to the best of my knowledge)

Proof of this can be found in the compendium history of travels, even though I never played in GORGE it’s still in the list of history of travels, FORGE and FORGE SEASON 2 (Yeah it had two seasons apparently..) Never show up in this list.

Because worlds are hosted directly from a HOST player (Aka Me..) and only last for as long as that host is playing the Game (Again AKA ME…) What ends up happening on Xbox is what I call “short burst sessions” 

Your only in a world for as long as someone is hosting it and then chances are you never see that world again- now of course there are SOME players who dedicate times of the day/week to continue the same world, but it’s not often you will see that-

Now more importantly: WHEN you are the host of the world, and everything in that world thus belongs to YOU and YOU ALONE other players joining is like having an Extra Hand- They aren’t there to leave permanent lasting marks on your world, because unless you friend them and schedule times to play together- chances are more likely those worlds I am hosting are going to continue on Without your involvement OR the more likely scenario: Get deleted completely when I grow bored of their existence.

Is this a problem ENTIRELY Exclusive to Xbox? Maybe.. I honestly don’t know- but what I DO KNOW is when I am the host of the world everything in it is directly under MY Control and no one else who joins the world has any say over it-

If I want to for example make that world 24/7 Winter with Long Winter Nights & Nightmare Monsters set to TONS so the sanity drain from those winter nights are a constant threat- Then it’s my world and IF you choose to join you adhere to the rules I have in place For that world.

Are you trying to tell me that when players join MY World, Hosted By ME and will likely continue long after they’re gone and never seen again.. are you trying to convince me that they should have free reign to build what they want wherever they want in my world?

I can make up rules like (can’t build Ice Flingo, or Can’t build any structures near Dragonfly) but it’s not quite the same as me being able to set the server to permanent Darkness so EVERYONE is forced to play by those rules.

The TL:DR- When your the host of your own world, people who join should be forced to respect your rules.. and without needing mods to do it.

[Vixen Doe]

1 hour ago, Queron81 said:

The problem is: currently people are forcing everyone to play how they want by building those walls. I was never on a server where someone didn't build those walls, I have never fought against the Dragonfly without those walls. They could just remove lavae as they don't have any purpose.

okay but........ if you don't wanna use the walls, fight her on the other side of them? you can just go around them yknow

[LowlySkeleton]

People still use walls? Why waste the resources when you can just let Chester aggro the larvae for you???

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

I dont understand why you bought a new xbox instead of a cheap computer so you could finally see that playing on computer isnt like you think. 

Or atleast dont come to every topic to talk about how bad is playing on console. You have the xbox forum to spam it or create a topic like "mike's thoughs" where you can repeat the same things over and over even when people already told you that things arent as you think

 

Btw, this is the one of the most dumb topic ever created. Dont use walls, dont play with players that use walls, etc, etc but let people play like they wan

I would like to see how OP plays the game, im sure we could blame him for cheating in other parts of the game. 

[MondayNight]

8 hours ago, Queron81 said:

So people want to force me to find a group that is playing exactly how I want? Sorry, but I love the team randomness on dedicated servers. I just think this wall tactic is bad (or the lavae are, cause people are taking them out of the game). I mean, it's really silly (or sad) that people feel forced to put that much work in gathering stone and building this wall against something, that should be part of the fun.

Most of my >10k h of DST since Beta were spent in pubs, vanilla dedicated survival servers akin or precisely KLei's official ones. And I can assure you vast majority of said sessions, on my end speed-runs (Ruins, doing some boss, sailing the seas after RoT, d|cking around with Killer Bees in bundles given to random Wilsons after BQ runs and other madness), I was the only one there (or me and 1-3 Steam friends with whom I planned ahead - yep: communication's the key) doing something boss-related or anything really above "hardly surviving 10 days before being done in by a Catcoon/Spider/Starvation/Night Grue/etc". Hence I don't see how you are forced by people into doing DF with Walls since vast majority of these pubs, when asking random folks "Hey laddie-lads, wanna mush DF?", you either get ignored or a whooping "Whot, mate?!". Right now there are so many Survival day 1-5 pubs out there you can choose from and Solo DF the "intended" way you won't have enough respite to actually do them all. More-so since almost all Survival pubs in the wild server populace are active solely 1st Autumn.

Will beat the dead-and-rotten horse some more for OP's sake mentioning DST is a Sandbox plus KLei boasting their "emergent game-play" aspect they proud themselves for, and how his approach to game would invalidate both said elements just for the sake of instilling their own 1-and-only "meta" just because.

I would also add, again, that if DS/T presented me with 1-and-only way of doing things from start ("da legit uay"), probably I would've quit when my play-time was in double digits, 10k h mark looking like some absurd insanity from such pov. Still it was THAT FUN the way DS/T was/is. Think about it from this angle as well.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I would also add, again, that if DS/T presented me with 1-and-only way of doing things from start ("da legit uay"), probably I would've quit when my play-time was in double digits, 10k h mark looking like some absurd insanity from such pov. Still it was THAT FUN the way DS/T was/is. Think about it from this angle as well.

THIS

dst is a game where you have to farm boss loot to decorate. Isnt like valheim that you kill the boss once with the best gear and you dont have to worry about it again.

If you have to repeat a fight 4538937483 times you will be bored if you always use the same methods, gear, etc

for that ovens and other cheese automatic boss farm methods exists, even if i dont enjoy them, they are necessary for somepeople. And for that fights like beequeen are so fun, i have killed beequeen with arround 6 different methods and there is a lot more that i dont know or i wont use because of my playstyle preference

 

[Monkey Cups]

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I think a LOT of disrespect comes down unfairly on people who use these methods.  The game is a sand box, not a combat sim.  This isn't dark souls.

Even Dark Souls/Bloodborne has its fair share of shenanigans you can do.

I prefer arcane builds, myself.

[Gi-Go]

Usually I'm fine with cheesing since it's really isn't my business what other players want to do. But df is different. Wall method isn't just a convenience, at this rate it's a tradition. People do this cheese not because they prefer it to normal fighting method, but because this IS normal fight method.

It's gotten too far, and unlike some dumb bosses Charlie made (bee queen and frog thing) dragonfly is the first and probably the best raid boss ever made. She deserves better. 

[xhyom]

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I gotta say I find it a bit odd though, that you'd have such strong feelings about this when you say you have no reason to fight dfly since it only gives a reward, that you've only killed dfly 3 times, and that your preferred strategy against bosses is gunpowder.......

Lmao, you mean the guy who wanted to nerf Wanda because he plays on Endless now want to nerf a strategy to fight a boss which he don't even fight at all? More surprising is that he uses gunpowder, I'm starting to get worried he don't fight anything at all as he is main Wendy.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, xhyom said:

Lmao, you mean the guy who wanted to nerf Wanda because he plays on Endless now want to nerf a strategy to fight a boss which he don't even fight at all? More surprising is that he uses gunpowder, I'm starting to get worried he don't fight anything at all as he is main Wendy.

cookie cutters xD

[Mike23Ua]

Just a friendly reminder, you guys aren’t supposed to make things personal about other players, OP asked a simple Question, and I gave a Simple Solution to OPs Question.

You barge in here saying use Mods, let people play the way they want to play, or lolz get better noob.. but- You have yet to provide any logical & mature response as to why- When I AM THE HOST OF MY OWN WORLD

I can’t FORCE players to play my way or find a different server to go play in?

I can turn off Butterflies while at the same time setting the Flowers they’re known to spawn from to More, this makes Flowers a Non-Renewable Resource when you do this by the way.. I can set worlds to where YOU are fighting a raging Deerclops every 6 or so days- But what I have no control over: Is rather or not people can place structures during boss fights.

And before you even say anything at all: Remember that there actually are OPTIONS to generate worlds in “Together” version or “Classic” If you don’t actually play around with these settings: Then your opinion about them are much like you all say my posts are: ill-informed.

But my Question to you is a very simple one: If I am the host of a world, as in the actual owner of it with full and total control over how little or how much something spawns: Why is there not an option to choose the type of floor that spawns under Dragonfly? “together” “Classic” “Uncompromising”

Its as simple as letting her spawn on tiles of land that are programmed like Jungle Biome in Hamlet DLC where you can’t place a structure on top of any of the little flowers you can’t interact with throughout the Biome.

I am assuming that you took things personally because you know it’s possible, and you use the very methods I am trying to provide solutions to for the OP & Myself.

I won’t even indulge you with responding to your personal thoughts about me or how I play this game, because it’s irrelevant to rather or not players can place structures in Dragonfly’s Spawning area.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can’t FORCE players to play my way or find a different server to go play in?

yes, quit everyplayer that is playing in a way you dont like lel

no need for add 438853948739 settings for every personal preference of every player

[BadScra]

Not just lavae. Just let most hostile mobs (except flying mobs) able to attack/destroy wall, fence, structure, boulder (by Antlion) and sculpture whenever they mobs can't pass. Please, my dream for this.

[Capybara007]

8 minutes ago, BadScra said:

Not just lavae. Just let most hostile mobs (except flying mobs) able to attack/destroy wall, fence, structure, boulder (by Antlion) and sculpture whenever they mobs can't pass. Please, my dream for this.

Thank god klei doesnt listen to these suggestions

[AlternateMew]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can’t FORCE players to play my way or find a different server to go play in?

As for the second part, are you saying console doesn't have kick/ban functions? Man, I'm sorry. That's a really basic thing and should be implemented. Hosts should be allowed to kick/ban people that don't fit in and won't leave.

As for the first part, well, that's what the second part is for. Or, if you don't like that different people play the game differently/hog all your resources, then play solo only. Then the only one that can break your rules is you. 

[Mike23Ua]

20 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

yes, quit everyplayer that is playing in a way you dont like.

Even little children will play Fortnite matches with the rules the match has applied because they have no other choice to if that’s the way the creator made the map.

When I am the host of a DST world, I am the Creator: I can throw you into a world where I choose how little, how much or if it even spawns at all, Sure I guess I could kick every single player who joins my world and does something I didn’t want them to do when the description for the room clearly shows what I don’t want done..

But that’s not the same as say: Giving me an option in that lovely little menu of things I can toggle on and off that lets me turn off the Birdcage as being a craftable item.

No bird cage means players actually have to go hunting for their eggs for their Pierogi heals.

The OP of this thread is upset that they want to fight this boss without players building a wall & taking the challenge of Dragonfly’s Larvae out of the equation, the OP is expressing that they would like WAYS to do this fight without walls involved.

And I have provided several possible ways without needing to buy a pc and create one’s own mods.. that Klei can possibly do it.

19 minutes ago, BadScra said:

Not just lavae. Just let most hostile mobs (except flying mobs) able to attack/destroy wall, fence, structure, boulder (by Antlion) and sculpture whenever they mobs can't pass. Please, my dream for this.

Klei has reacted to several posts about an “Uncompromising Mode”, not the mod.. an actual Game Mode.. and While that may not be added to the game for several years, or even ever at all.. them reacting to it all means it’s at least something that’s been on their minds. 

Personally I would like to see what KLEI ENTERTAINMENT considers Their personal version of an Uncompromising Mode to be.. If they like something the uncompromising MOD does then use it- but don’t just copy and paste the mod in it’s entirety and call it a day, I want to see their own vision of what that game mode should be.

Your Suggestion here: Appropriately fits into that Uncompromising Mode vision & it’s something I too would like to see.

Ignore all the people who say your opinion is bad & Klei doesn’t take you seriously- Because if your opinion is logical, and more importantly something Klei feels they want to actually do.. they will do it regardless of what people think.

 

[Capybara007]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The OP of this thread is upset that they want to fight this boss without players building a wall & taking the challenge of Dragonfly’s Larvae out of the equation, the OP is expressing that they would like WAYS to do this fight without walls involved.

Yeah, thats not how it goes, if they want to fight dfly legit they can do it in another time where someone who doesnt uses walls is at the arena, and if you dont like it, just play solo.

Making hostile mobs destroy statues or structures would break 90% of the farms in this game, do you think the playerbase will be happy about that? Should klei change how statues and walls work just because some kiddos dont like watching others cheese dfly? Dont think only for you.

[Yuuko]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just a friendly reminder, you guys aren’t supposed to make things personal about other players, OP asked a simple Question, and I gave a Simple Solution to OPs Question.

You barge in here saying use Mods, let people play the way they want to play, or lolz get better noob.. but- You have yet to provide any logical & mature response as to why- When I AM THE HOST OF MY OWN WORLD

I can’t FORCE players to play my way or find a different server to go play in?

I can turn off Butterflies while at the same time setting the Flowers they’re known to spawn from to More, this makes Flowers a Non-Renewable Resource when you do this by the way.. I can set worlds to where YOU are fighting a raging Deerclops every 6 or so days- But what I have no control over: Is rather or not people can place structures during boss fights.

And before you even say anything at all: Remember that there actually are OPTIONS to generate worlds in “Together” version or “Classic” If you don’t actually play around with these settings: Then your opinion about them are much like you all say my posts are: ill-informed.

But my Question to you is a very simple one: If I am the host of a world, as in the actual owner of it with full and total control over how little or how much something spawns: Why is there not an option to choose the type of floor that spawns under Dragonfly? “together” “Classic” “Uncompromising”

Its as simple as letting her spawn on tiles of land that are programmed like Jungle Biome in Hamlet DLC where you can’t place a structure on top of any of the little flowers you can’t interact with throughout the Biome.

I am assuming that you took things personally because you know it’s possible, and you use the very methods I am trying to provide solutions to for the OP & Myself.

I won’t even indulge you with responding to your personal thoughts about me or how I play this game, because it’s irrelevant to rather or not players can place structures in Dragonfly’s Spawning area.

 

46 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Even little children will play Fortnite matches with the rules the match has applied because they have no other choice to if that’s the way the creator made the map.

When I am the host of a DST world, I am the Creator: I can throw you into a world where I choose how little, how much or if it even spawns at all, Sure I guess I could kick every single player who joins my world and does something I didn’t want them to do when the description for the room clearly shows what I don’t want done..

But that’s not the same as say: Giving me an option in that lovely little menu of things I can toggle on and off that lets me turn off the Birdcage as being a craftable item.

No bird cage means players actually have to go hunting for their eggs for their Pierogi heals.

The OP of this thread is upset that they want to fight this boss without players building a wall & taking the challenge of Dragonfly’s Larvae out of the equation, the OP is expressing that they would like WAYS to do this fight without walls involved.

And I have provided several possible ways without needing to buy a pc and create one’s own mods.. that Klei can possibly do it.

Thing is - all of this ^^^ isn't worldgen.  Saying you want flowers set to more or less is a basic world gen feature.  Telling a worldgen "don't let a player build a birdcage" is a bit ridiculous.  You want every single craftable to be on toggle?  And how exactly are you going to say "don't let them build structures within x distance of dfly" that's a bit specific don't you think?  Do you expect Klei to code in "this is the toggle to disable crafting a firepit near deerclops"??  And "spawn dfly on deciduous terrain" ??  What is even the point of that??

These aren't world gen settings.  The problem with your suggestion here isn't that these things are dumb, more that these things are not appropriate things to have Klei put in the game.  They are oddly specific, niche, and very personal to you.  No one else is thinking "wow, if only I had worldgen setting so ppl couldn't build a bird cage..."  These are mod territory.

I haven't played fortnite, but in fighting games you can change the match settings too.  If you want to have a one fall match you can, if you want to have 3 rounds for a win or first to five matches you can, BUT these are the general game settings.  There isn't a setting to not let people throw projectiles, or disable skins.  I imagine in fortnight while you can change the match settings, you can't say "If you pick up this weapon you can only shoot it for 1 clip then you have to switch" or "snipers have bad accuracy bc I don't like them."

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Yeah, thats not how it goes, if they want to fight dfly legit they can do it in another time where someone who doesnt uses walls is at the arena, and if you dont like it, just play solo.

Making hostile mobs destroy statues or structures would break 90% of the farms in this game, do you think the playerbase will be happy about that? Should klei change how statues and walls work just because some kiddos dont like watching others cheese dfly? Dont think only for you.

The suggestion I made: was to let larvae splash at the wall like hitting it with a bucket of water and then slowly seep through the cracks in the wall to re-Imerge on the other side- Which would make building the wall slow them down.. and still be a valuable tactic, but It would NOT take them out of the fight altogether.

Thats the cool suggestion that would require a ton of coding and work on Klei’s behalf to how Larvae interact with walls.

But the OTHER much simple suggestion I made- was to simply allow the host of a world to pick rather the players can build anything in her fighting zone biome at all.

[xhyom]

You guys will be shocked when you discover you can actually run in circles until the larvae self destroy, the larvaes are not a problem in the Dragonfly fight, if you think the Dragonfly fight is easier because you get 10 seconds more to attack instead of just walking around until the larvaes are gone you are completely wrong.

[Well-met]

10 hours ago, goblinball said:

Have you ever considered that maybe if dfly wall strats haven’t been “fixed” yet, they are likely here to stay, maybe even intentional?

klei fixed fuelweaver edge after ages, and then the whip stun even more years later

so nah i don't buy it.

[xhyom]

2 minutes ago, Well-met said:

klei fixed fuelweaver edge after ages, and then the whip stun even more years later

so nah i don't buy it.

I doubt Klei treat those the same way, I mean, for example the Bee Queen oven you could basically kill her without any equipment AFK, Fuelweaver ones are basically the same thing.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, Well-met said:

klei fixed fuelweaver edge after ages, and then the whip stun even more years later

so nah i don't buy it.

iceflingomatic is the king of cheese since DS RoG