Something to stop the Dragonfly wall cheese?

[Sir Noel]

Bit off topic but one thing I agree on is that the "ice staff" method is extremely annoying to do, which is why my go-to will always be walls. 

On 9/29/2021 at 2:50 PM, ZombieDupe said:

There is a fun battle to be had with ice staves or even just regularly with other players when you don't use walls. Walls just take the chaos out of the equation and it's not all that hard to set them up for fighting Dragonfly. I don't see anyone fighting dragonfly any other way unless it's for a specific speedrun and it's also sad because you can get rocks freezing the larva, doesn't help that the blue gems just keep piling up. I can't fight the dragonfly without an exploit if everyone else in the party is aiming to use it because they can and it's easy.

While we're on the topic of staves, why not increase their durability, and ice staff especially? Making something freeze on one hit regardless of what creature it is (unless it's marked as immune) sounds fair when you consider that unfreezing something requires one hit as well.

The fight without walls is... not fun. Especially solo. You need a ridiculous amount of ice staves because it takes three blasts from an ice staff just to freeze one lavae, (reminder that an ice staff has 20 uses), and when she spawns 5+ lavae each round, you can see why this is a completely inferior choice to the wall method. Not only that but the ice staff will continue targeting already frozen lavae, so there goes even more durability!

I'm very shocked that this hasn't been tweaked/reworked so that lavae's freeze after one blast, because then it would actually be a viable alternative to walls. Ice staff just needs a buff, plain and simple. Lavae need to be frozen in one hit, and ice staves should not just have 20 uses. Also have the ice staff prioritize newly spawned lavae instead of already frozen ones, because it messes with the flow of the fight and can cause utter chaos where it doesn't need to be.

[Lord Cafe]

This is a game about survival, survival it's about preparation, building walls to prevent the lavae are part of the game isn't a exploit, exploit it's stuck the boss in some place which they can't reach u cus of their AI don't work properly.

Lavae don't go through walls but DF fly over them so that's tottaly fine, this ins't a hack and slash game where's skill is the catch. Dst it's most of the time tanking, knowing the enemy attacks and overcoming that, simple and fun, you can still make chalenges like fighting DF without walls and using ice staff while others players would choose to fight using strategies, nobody is better or worst for using walls, i've done both and had the same fun and stress in either way so we don't need to force EVERYONE to play like u want, we want freedom to do  what we want and we have this in DST. BUT! i'm not against Klei improving DF AI, sometimes she does't even try to get to the rage mode or just keep spamming lavae for minutes straight ahead... it's kinda boring. 

[Yuuko]

24 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

BUT! i'm not against Klei improving DF AI, sometimes she does't even try to get to the rage mode or just keep spamming lavae for minutes straight ahead... it's kinda boring. 

Totally.  I've had times where she spawns like 20+ lavae each time she goes to spawn them, and the fight takes 3 days to finish lol.  Recently I've had her fly off to spawn lavae and not come back to fight at all.  She stops spawning lavae and just sits there in the middle.  I don't usually have health visible so idk if she fully reset, or just lost aggro.  She didn't stun like normal the second time so I assume she just lost aggro and sat there until I went to get her lol

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Recently I've had her fly off to spawn lavae and not come back to fight at all.  She stops spawning lavae and just sits there in the middle.  I don't usually have health visible so idk if she fully reset, or just lost aggro.  She didn't stun like normal the second time so I assume she just lost aggro and sat there until I went to get her lol

are you using wanda? it happend to me in the last fight. Maybe because of the backstep watch, mess her aggro

btw, she keeped her health because i fight her again and die soon

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

are you using wanda? it happend to me in the last fight. Maybe because of the backstep watch, mess her aggro

btw, she keeped her health because i fight her again and die soon

Yeah was wanda, maybe it is a backstep issue.  I know lazy explorer has the same issue with losing aggro.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Shosuko said:

Yeah was wanda, maybe it is a backstep issue.  I know lazy explorer has the same issue with losing aggro.

yes, with fw can be a mess

[shakespeare257]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:55 PM, Terra B Welch said:

Even with the wall the dfly fight still requires some level of skill to it, you still have to know the kiting timing on her swipes and without a pan flute can still end pretty chaotically.

Honestly I'm getting tired of all these complaints or demands to nerf fun boss fighting methods.

You guys are kiting the Dragonfly? My duo tanks it and usually exits the fight with more HP than we entered it with.

- Wigfrid who plays with a maxed out WX

[kuroite]

7 hours ago, Walk the Plank said:

You need a ridiculous amount of ice staves because it takes three blasts from an ice staff just to freeze one lavae

Is 4 Ice staves a ridiculous amount ? (just asking)

 

8 hours ago, Walk the Plank said:

Not only that but the ice staff will continue targeting already frozen lavae, so there goes even more durability!

I agree with that. I had a run couple days ago where i was literally clicking on a new spawned lavae and it keep targeting the frozen one near him as if i was pressing F.

[Sir Noel]

13 minutes ago, kuroite said:

Is 4 Ice staves a ridiculous amount ? (just asking)

Yeah 4 ish ice staves really isn't a whole lot, but the counterpart is... barely a stack of rocks for lavae protection forever. Plus if you're going to do a future dragonfly, that's 4 more ice staves (and a whole lot of annoyances with the ice staff targeting) each time as opposed to setting up walls once and being good for future fights. If it was at least 1 or maybe 2 staves per fight then I could see this being a decent strat or if you just wanna shake things up, but walls are still the way more efficient and quicker choice. Could have worded that better originally but that was my main point with that!

[shakespeare257]

Is the wall cheese boring? Yes. The most interesting part of this fight is building the walls tbh (I wall off all pools, with the help of my duo).

It is "boring" because you need to do it once, and you don't need to babysit the walls once you build them once. I've had to rebuild the walls 2 times in 10 DF kills - once because Deerclops spawned literally on them and destroyed a few walls, and once because we missed the pan flute song, so the DF killed a few walls.

If they give the larvae a small (5-10dps) damage vs walls, you will have an incentive to either babysit your walls or to at least expend resources on maintaining those from time to time. Maybe your 400hp wall does not go down in the 30 seconds the larvae are alive and aggroed onto it, but then you'd need to move to have a different part of the wall be aggroed, or maintain it live as the fight is going on. Add a bit of an improved pathfinding so the larvae can find the gaps in the wall, and you have a cool fight that can still be cheesed with more resource expenditure.

Given that rocks in high numbers are actually something you have to work for and plan around, this would balance the fight a bit. Right now with Walls, it is the least dangerous fight in the game, as it is practically unloseable. Moosegoose can kill you if you are bad, Bearger can kill you if you're bad, but this is literally the easiest cheese for some of the most important endgame resources.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, shakespeare257 said:

some of the most important endgame resources.

Newer players aren’t going to know what the resources they get for fighting this boss even does, But more importantly: If what it drops is meant to be “End Game Resources” then this boss needs to be RELOCATED to a Biome out across the ocean somewhere in a completely OPTIONAL Area of the game: When it comes to Dragonfly players can just sort of wander into it during any season, at any time of the day, without any specific requirements..

For “insert almost every boss here” (with the sole exceptions of Moose/Goose if that even counts as a Boss?? Deerclops & Bearger)

Every OTHER boss in the game requires you to go out of your way to find, bring some tool to Summon, or even do X, X & Y before they even trigger.

Ant-Lion & Ancient Guardian are the only other two bosses that you can just wander into like Dragonfly, except both of those also require certain conditions (ant-Lion in a sandstorm during Summer & AG after learning how to get into, and survive longer then a few seconds in a cave.

Dragonfly however… is just sort of THERE, you don’t have to go to some Magmatic Firelands across the constant, gather some resource exclusive to that biome and bring it back to dragonfly’s biome and then offer that fire resistant resource to each of her biomes lava ponds… Before she spawns- Nope she’s just sort of already out there absolutely wrecking anyone who stumbles into her territory unaware, unprepared, and unable to flee away fast enough.

This is one of the bosses I actually have to turn OFF when playing with my casual friends, because UNLIKE most other bosses.. this one never has to be summoned or reach X very specific task/knowledge of the game to get to spawn.

If the resources it drops is the reason this boss can’t be made easier- there are newer return of them bosses out there that are optional- Strip THIS ONE of the “End Game Loot” and give it to one of those optional bosses that require actually doing something special to summon & make her easier to fight for newer players….

OR- RELOCATE Her someplace else that isn’t a death trap to wandering newbies.

[shakespeare257]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Newer players aren’t going to know what the resources they get for fighting this boss even does, But more importantly: If what it drops is meant to be “End Game Resources” then this boss needs to be RELOCATED to a Biome out across the ocean somewhere in a completely OPTIONAL Area of the game: When it comes to Dragonfly players can just sort of wander into it during any season, at any time of the day, without any specific requirements..

For “insert almost every boss here” (with the sole exceptions of Moose/Goose if that even counts as a Boss?? Deerclops & Bearger)

Every OTHER boss in the game requires you to go out of your way to find, bring some tool to Summon, or even do X, X & Y before they even trigger.

Ant-Lion & Ancient Guardian are the only other two bosses that you can just wander into like Dragonfly, except both of those also require certain conditions (ant-Lion in a sandstorm during Summer & AG after learning how to get into, and survive longer then a few seconds in a cave.

Dragonfly however… is just sort of THERE, you don’t have to go to some Magmatic Firelands across the constant, gather some resource exclusive to that biome and bring it back to dragonfly’s biome and then offer that fire resistant resource to each of her biomes lava ponds… Before she spawns- Nope she’s just sort of already out there absolutely wrecking anyone who stumbles into her territory unaware, unprepared, and unable to flee away fast enough.

This is one of the bosses I actually have to turn OFF when playing with my casual friends, because UNLIKE most other bosses.. this one never has to be summoned or reach X very specific task/knowledge of the game to get to spawn.

If the resources it drops is the reason this boss can’t be made easier- there are newer return of them bosses out there that are optional- Strip THIS ONE of the “End Game Loot” and give it to one of those optional bosses that require actually doing something special to summon & make her easier to fight for newer players….

OR- RELOCATE Her someplace else that isn’t a death trap to wandering newbies.

Wait, you want to make the fight EASIER than it already is?

I was thinking of making a separate post but... if you classify anything with over 3.8k health as a boss (excluding mini-bosses like Spider Queens and Treeguards) then... DF is by far the easiest boss to repeatedly kill. Yes, she will wreck your breakfast if you wander into her, but you will either figure out how to take her down, or will stay clear from then on. There is not an easier boss in the game currently, and you cannot change my opinion on this. (The separate post was basically that with an understanding of healing foods, armor and hambats, every single boss on the main continent can be tanked - a formula that only breaks for Crab King, Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion - and this is a huge problem with the game. You could add Bee Queen to the mix if you don't have a Wigfrid, but Wigfrid completely trivializes that fight with the Fear song she has.)

I am legit more scared of Deerclops than I am of Dragonfly, and Dragonfly has 7 times more health  Minor tweaks to the fight, rather than the loot, seem reasonable to me to increase the threat level so that you don't just need to spend 240 stones per world to farm out gems. I don't see what's wrong with just making that method more tedious, given how easy it is to pull off.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I never though i would read complains about the cool concept of having a raid boss in the middle of a regular biome (which was hilarious when i was noob) or that using ice staffs isnt considered as a free thing but a cost to take in count

[marioespinho]

2 hours ago, shakespeare257 said:

DF is by far the easiest boss to repeatedly kill.

I honestly don't understand the need to exaggerate to make a point. 

Not every fight has to be Fuelweaver or Celestial Champion level of difficulty and not everyone is a DST seasoned player to want/need hard boss fights every corner they go.

I would agree on a "hard mode" of sorts or a system that makes boss fighs harder or different the more times you defeat them. But i see most boss fights as acceptable as they are right now, apart from a few tweaks here and there. I think it's normal, after defeating bosses a million times, that we think that the fights need improvement or a straight up makeover, but i see that more as a "i'm too experienced" than a real problem on the game itself.

Any game will be predictable and kinda boring after you do the content many many times. It's really hard to keep it fresh for veterans while keeping it balanced for less experienced players.

[shakespeare257]

5 hours ago, marioespinho said:

I honestly don't understand the need to exaggerate to make a point. 

Not every fight has to be Fuelweaver or Celestial Champion level of difficulty and not everyone is a DST seasoned player to want/need hard boss fights every corner they go.

I would agree on a "hard mode" of sorts or a system that makes boss fighs harder or different the more times you defeat them. But i see most boss fights as acceptable as they are right now, apart from a few tweaks here and there. I think it's normal, after defeating bosses a million times, that we think that the fights need improvement or a straight up makeover, but i see that more as a "i'm too experienced" than a real problem on the game itself.

Any game will be predictable and kinda boring after you do the content many many times. It's really hard to keep it fresh for veterans while keeping it balanced for less experienced players.

Which boss do you reckon is "easier" to repeatedly kill, with the type of "hold F for 4-8 minutes" mindlessness that Dfly has? You can literally plant yourself in the center of the arena and hold F when the boss is near, Pan Fluting them once or twice as needed. Only one other fight, maybe (Ancient Guardian) allows you to do this reliably, and it is not a satisfying boss fight if that's the best strategy.

Bearger and Moosegoose will knock your weapon out of your hand, so you have to "move" and can't just tank. Deerclops will freeze the breakfast out of you and tank your sanity so you have other mobs to deal with too. Ancient Guardian is easier to kill once, but then you have to beat the Fuelweaver fight again to farm the horn. Klaus will absolutely destroy you if you don't move, same as Bee Queen.

You are deviating from the topic of this post, IMO. I don't see a reason the wall cheese should not be nerfed so that the actual mechanics of the boss fight can come through. I imagine there's a large contingent of users out there (myself included) who have ever not done the wall cheese when fighting DFly. It is head and shoulders the best strategy that turns an interesting boss into a pushover. This is different than a fight like Bee Queen being easier because you have more experience with it - the DFly fight is fundamentally in the favor of the player as long as they know the strategy. Compare this to the strategies for beating other bosses that involve at least minimal movement or multiple items juggling - the strat is stupid and it needs a minor fix to at least make it also inconvenient to repeatedly use.

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, marioespinho said:

I honestly don't understand the need to exaggerate to make a point. 

Not every fight has to be Fuelweaver or Celestial Champion level of difficulty and not everyone is a DST seasoned player to want/need hard boss fights every corner they go.

I would agree on a "hard mode" of sorts or a system that makes boss fighs harder or different the more times you defeat them. But i see most boss fights as acceptable as they are right now, apart from a few tweaks here and there. I think it's normal, after defeating bosses a million times, that we think that the fights need improvement or a straight up makeover, but i see that more as a "i'm too experienced" than a real problem on the game itself.

Any game will be predictable and kinda boring after you do the content many many times. It's really hard to keep it fresh for veterans while keeping it balanced for less experienced players.

Yeah see- thats just the thing: I’ve been trying to talk about ways to make her Easier & Harder at the exact same time- As she stands now.. many many many people just build a wall to take part of what makes her fight unique Completely OUT of the equation: And overall I feel like if this entire fight got a huge A.I. overhaul introducing new game mechanics, maybe some mobs and attack abilities from the D-Fly itself.. We can have an Over-Hauled boss fight that is updated with a 2022 design, look & feel.

Now it is very very important to note: that doesn’t just translate into- “Uber Elite I’m so Skilled I need it Harder Mode.”

That actually means: This thing can be brought down in Health, Damage Output & Abilities/Mechanics when less players are fighting it- And then Progressively scale upwards in what it can do the more players come to fight her.

Here are just a few examples- When only one player fights it, she only spawns 2-4 Larvae at any given time, Has less health & she never enters Enraged Mode, But the loot she drops will be less as well.

Bring the maximum number of players, this thing now flies around spitting out larvae randomly (that no longer just spawn from static pre-built ponds) the ponds can spawn Magma Golems, She Enrages more often and while in enraged status- Regenerates health. She also learns some new attacks like breathing out a wall of flames or spinning Fire Tornadoes.

While all of that sounds scary hard: It’s actually.. not? And it’s hard to explain that- Dynamic Content Scaling is what I think it’s officially called??

The TL:DR of my point? There’s currently no difference if 1 player wants to go solo Dragonfly in some long grindy “prove myself elite” fight, or if 20 players go beat her to death in a matter of seconds.

Im sick and tired of people telling me I need to do this fight 50,000x before I have any right to suggest changes to it, I’ve been playing video games over 30 years, I know the differences between a good boss fight- and one that could use improvements if Klei wants to give her a 2022 upgrade: 

Like they’ve currently hinted Ancient Guardian is about to get.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

There’s currently no difference if 1 player wants to go solo Dragonfly in some long grindy “prove myself elite” fight, or if 20 players go beat her to death in a matter of seconds.

it has, that 20 players would need to share the loot meanwhile the solo player has all the ingredients for himself

so that 20 players need 20 times the fight to get the same

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, shakespeare257 said:

Which boss do you reckon is "easier" to repeatedly kill, with the type of "hold F for 4-8 minutes" mindlessness that Dfly has? You can literally plant yourself in the center of the arena and hold F when the boss is near, Pan Fluting them once or twice as needed. Only one other fight, maybe (Ancient Guardian) allows you to do this reliably, and it is not a satisfying boss fight if that's the best strategy.

Bearger and Moosegoose will knock your weapon out of your hand, so you have to "move" and can't just tank. Deerclops will freeze the breakfast out of you and tank your sanity so you have other mobs to deal with too. Ancient Guardian is easier to kill once, but then you have to beat the Fuelweaver fight again to farm the horn. Klaus will absolutely destroy you if you don't move, same as Bee Queen.

So a 27k health boss that you need to use a panflute ( very hard item to renew unless you are somewhat experienced in the game ) is far easier to kill over and over than bosses who have 1/5 of the health pool, and deal less damage,  because you need to sidestep and press space or you need to eat a few cactuses do avoid shadows? Lmao, okay... 

1 hour ago, shakespeare257 said:

I don't see a reason the wall cheese should not be nerfed so that the actual mechanics of the boss fight can come through. I imagine there's a large contingent of users out there (myself included) who have ever not done the wall cheese when fighting DFly. It is head and shoulders the best strategy that turns an interesting boss into a pushover. This is different than a fight like Bee Queen

And i don't see a reason why it SHOULD be nerfed, since the mechanics are there for whoever has any issue with walling. And that's where all this boils down to. You are complaining about something that you are not forced to do and doesn't impact your game in any way.

So what you basically want is to force everyone else to play the game the way YOU think it has to be played.

That sort of elitist thinking got a lot of games ruined down to the ground because studios started nerfing everything players cried about and ended up making the game unplayable or boring.

Play however you want and please let everyone else do the same.

@Mike23Ua

[shakespeare257]

1 minute ago, marioespinho said:

So a 27k health boss that you need to use a panflute ( very hard item to renew unless you are somewhat experienced in the game ) is far easier to kill over and over than bosses who have 1/5 of the health pool, and deal less damage,  because you need to sidestep and press space or you need to eat a few cactuses do avoid shadows? Lmao, okay... 

And i don't see a reason why it SHOULD be nerfed, since the mechanics are there for whoever has any issue with walling. And that's where all this boils down to. You are complaining about something that you are not forced to do and doesn't impact your game in any way.

So what you basically want is to force everyone else to play the game the way YOU think it has to be played.

That sort of elitist thinking got a lot of games ruined down to the ground because studios started nerfing everything players cried about and ended up making the game unplayable or boring.

Play however you want and please let everyone else do the same.

@Mike23Ua

It is a bit nutty to me that you think that anyone who is farming the DFly is like... huh, I wonder how I will be renewing the pan flute. Maybe these 20% drops of Mandrake from Klaus will help...

I don't remember the last world that didn't spawn with a Pan Flute and at least one extra Mandrake - that's a solid 20 sleeps aka 10 DFly fights right there. If you do either the Klaus fight regularly, or make a deconstruction staff (which, you know, you can do relatively risk free), you get 25 extra DFly fights out of a single staff of deconstruction (at least, sometimes you just need to sleep it once).

I appreciate the "free for all" attitude you have around sandbox games, but given we are all confined to playing the same game and I can't find a mod to make the larvae deal damage to walls, I will advocate for my simple solution that both keeps the cheese intact for people who want to do the fight once, and makes it prohibitively expensive for people who want to repeatedly cheese the fight.

You seem to be arguing both from the perspective of the "noob" (who wants to beat this fight once and then move on) and the "pro" (don't change the difficulty of farming). I want to change the "tediousness" of farming so that people (and I) actually have an incentive to engage with the fight mechanics.

I'd get the argument if this was a new game with hundreds of thousands of people, but given I really don't care about matchmaking and only play private servers  I'd rather have some adequate challenge presented by some of "old" bosses that haven't been touched in a very long time.

[MagicalStorm]

2 hours ago, shakespeare257 said:

Bearger and Moosegoose will knock your weapon out of your hand, so you have to "move" and can't just tank. Deerclops will freeze the breakfast out of you and tank your sanity so you have other mobs to deal with too. Ancient Guardian is easier to kill once, but then you have to beat the Fuelweaver fight again to farm the horn. Klaus will absolutely destroy you if you don't move, same as Bee Queen.

Moose/Goose can be killed by just standing near her with a frog rain (her mosslings can be killed in many ways in order to avoid dealing with them after) or if you really wanna tank her, just put your weapon away right before she honks and problem solved. Bearger can be killed by just strolling him through an evergreen forest (though i much prefer him alive), i don't know if the moose/goose honk trick also works on him, but it might. Deerclops can be tanked rather easily (stand near a campfire and no more freezing), you can even reduce the sanity loss by moving a bit away from them so you're not standing in the center of their insanity aura. All of these with no challenge whatsoever, and in deerclops's case, just holding F until death

Bee Queen can be tanked by Wendy (preferably, with a boat). Fuelweaver can also be tanked somewhat, although you have to deal with the shield and the woven shadows on phase 2. Klaus is too much to tank so i agree on that

As for Dragonfly, tanking her or not is your choice (although you still gotta disable that enraged state without any fire resistance, so its not really just holding F), as with all of these bosses, same go with the walls. You don't need to remove something that is optional. (or, if you're on PC, iirc uncompromising mode makes the lavae deal damage to walls, if you really want that)

TLDR: Most of the bosses mentioned can actually be tanked, Dragonfly walls is optional, if you want the challenge just play on a private server with friends that also want the challenge, and leave the others to their fun.

EDIT: Bee Queen can sort of be tanked if you use walls/fences too, the whole grumble bee maze strategy

[Mike23Ua]

Shortest TL:DR I’ve ever written: Dragonfly as well as all existing, future, or Reworked bosses- Is Content with unique gameplay & Mechanics that is in the game that EVERYONE should be able to enjoy.

What that means: It should be allowed to get Easier & Harder simultaneously at the same time & I will advocate for that to happen until Klei gets sick of hearing it & bans me off the forums altogether.

Your telling me to let people play there way: And I’m telling you that on the Xbox version of DST unless you host your own world: You play by whatever rules they have toggled for the world- no exceptions.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It should be allowed to get Easier & Harder simultaneously at the same time

what already happens, people that want it easier builds a wall and brings pan flute, people who want it harder go in the middle of the arena (the wall doenst affect these players) 

no need to mess things for 2 or 3 players (dont come with the lighting and horror mobs settings, those are for make the game safer for certain people)

[Yuuko]

Quote

I will advocate for my simple solution that both keeps the cheese intact for people who want to do the fight once, and makes it prohibitively expensive for people who want to repeatedly cheese the fight.

Quote

I really don't care about matchmaking and only play private servers  I'd rather have some adequate challenge presented by some of "old" bosses that haven't been touched in a very long time.

Then don't build the wall on your server?  If you want the challenge, its waiting there for you.

Also all this talk about what would fix cheese or make it expensive makes me wanna make debunking videos lol but I don't got time (well maybe after work I'll do 1 or 2) but in short - making lavae damage walls wouldn't change the fight even a little bit.  You just use statues or fossils instead.

[Mike23Ua]

Why is the only answer “don’t build the wall?” That is stupid and highly not actually inline with the direction the game is headed and also not even accurate with the current LORE.

Return of Them caused chunk of moon to land in waters of DST, “crazy moon stuff starts happening”

I mean are we going to just completely Ignore that this official concept art from Klei exists?

Aside from the troll face I added this is still Legit art- and it clearly reads as Creatures should be mutated by Moonglass and hostile to the player.

They are currently looking into ways to Upgrade Ancient Guardian’s fight, They also added a Lunar Under Ground Cave Grotto effected by Moon Magic..

Put two and two together guys: Changes are coming…

Some people will love the changes, other people will want the old versions back, I’m trying to find a middle ground to still have both.

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, shakespeare257 said:

It is a bit nutty to me that you think that anyone who is farming the DFly is like... huh, I wonder how I will be renewing the pan flute. Maybe these 20% drops of Mandrake from Klaus will help...

And it's nutty to me that you think that using panflute + renewing it is easier than press spacebar a couple of times to grab weapon or click to eat food and restore sanity. So i guess we'll just have yo disagree on this one.

1 hour ago, shakespeare257 said:

and makes it prohibitively expensive for people who want to repeatedly cheese the fight.

So you just want to make it harder for people who want to cheese it multiple times. Okay... May I ask what do you personally gain from that?

1 hour ago, shakespeare257 said:

I want to change the "tediousness" of farming so that people (and I) actually have an incentive to engage with the fight mechanics.

So you basically have the "Zombiedupe Syndhrome". You want the cheese removed because you can't help not using it too. 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your telling me to let people play there way: And I’m telling you that on the Xbox version of DST unless you host your own world: You play by whatever rules they have toggled for the world- no exceptions.

I have this crazy idea... Wait for it...... How about, you know, start your own server?