From the lore, what should be the most dangerous and catastrophic characters?

[Pop Guy]

In the game we all know, well or badly, the hierarchies of power and versatility among the various characters.
But if we were to create a sort of "ranking" based on lore, instead?
I believe that all those who have had the opportunity to sit on the throne are literally a step above the very concept of "human". Their mind has probed parallel and inaccessible realities to our inadequate senses, through time and space, investigating the primeval mysteries of the universe.
So Maxwell and Wilson should be at the top of the pyramid.
Then the otherworldly beings follow: Wormwood seems to be able to control the growth of plants, a power that in reality would be immense! Wortox can even teleport and assimilate "the souls" of the creatures it touches, to say the least terrifying!
In the small world of real humans and their small machines (WX-78) I believe that only Wagstaff emerges, thanks to his absolutely exceptional genius and his willingness to access the throne and its secrets. Follow Wickerbottom and Wendy, for their predisposition to the occult arts, but then no one else seems to emerge... Warbucks has a rifle, Wolfgang an exceptional force and Webber rudimentary scientific knowledge and a faint symbiosis with the giant spiders. Yes, probably Webber would be the best of the worst :'D

[Russian_Philin]

Each time your topics frighten me more and more with their reflections

[Viktor234]

3 hours ago, Pop Guy said:

In the game we all know, well or badly, the hierarchies of power and versatility among the various characters.
But if we were to create a sort of "ranking" based on lore, instead?
I believe that all those who have had the opportunity to sit on the throne are literally a step above the very concept of "human". Their mind has probed parallel and inaccessible realities to our inadequate senses, through time and space, investigating the primeval mysteries of the universe.
So Maxwell and Wilson should be at the top of the pyramid.
Then the otherworldly beings follow: Wormwood seems to be able to control the growth of plants, a power that in reality would be immense! Wortox can even teleport and assimilate "the souls" of the creatures it touches, to say the least terrifying!
In the small world of real humans and their small machines (WX-78) I believe that only Wagstaff emerges, thanks to his absolutely exceptional genius and his willingness to access the throne and its secrets. Follow Wickerbottom and Wendy, for their predisposition to the occult arts, but then no one else seems to emerge... Warbucks has a rifle, Wolfgang an exceptional force and Webber rudimentary scientific knowledge and a faint symbiosis with the giant spiders. Yes, probably Webber would be the best of the worst :'D

Even if this topic does not contain any direct poll, it still annoys me because it can be considered as a poll & it's not connected to the gameplay in any way.

[Szczuku]

Wendy cuz she's a litle girl

[Pop Guy]

18 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Even if this topic does not contain any direct poll, it still annoys me because it can be considered as a poll & it's not connected to the gameplay in any way.

you are mad :'D

[Theukon-dos]

I'm not sure about Maxwell or Wilson. While they did spend time on the throne, Maxwell seems to have lost most of his power, as shown in the Cyclum comic where he fails to muster a spell to kill a spider. We also know that the Codex Umbra could theroretically be used by anyone, due to Maxwell having scrathed the surface for his show, and that He's not even scratching the surface of the Codex thanks to one of Wortoxes quotes. And Wilson ofcourse, in addition to have only been on the throne for a few hours tops, got any power that he did absorb sucked right out of him by Charlie. so as far as we know, he is most definitly just a normal human.

 

Wortox would definitly be the most threatening. if he really can kill anything instantly just by touching them, that combined with his ability to teleport means that he is definitly going to be a force to be rekoned with.

 

I'm also not to sure about Wormwood's ability to control plants. Apart from his body forming, the only plant manipulation we see out of him are is his green thumb tab, all of which require already-magical living logs, so I'm not sure just how much he's controling them rather than he is asking them to grow in a spesific way.

 

If Wortox is as powerful as he is to be belived, then Wagstaff would definitly come in a close second. Not only is he quite possibly the smartest man alive (note how he built a teleporter out of some cogs, stone, and a crystal diode made out of gold and more stone) but he's also been shown to happily seek dark powers, have interest in the millitant applications of said powers, and not care too much about the board of ethics.

 

WX would also probably be a threat, due to his compleate and utter hatred of Organics.

 

I would also like to note that the blunderbuss is not Warbucks exclusive, as anyone can make it in Hamlet.

[Thomas Die]

i think that you should put in perceptive that magical power in the game as a lore standpoint is a actually substantially worse / weaker as you see in the comic as maxwell tries to kill a spider but can't even muster enough magical power.

however wortox is definitely stronger than the game implies as he can kill others by simple touch as implied by when he inspects a bird

[Maxposting]

18 minutes ago, thomas4845 said:

however wortox is definitely stronger than the game implies as he can kill others by simple touch as implied by when he inspects a bird

That makes me wonder what WOULD happen if wortox were to soul-transform into ANOTHER being in his krampus form?

Would he just become an amalgate between krampus or the being or just transform into the being?

[Thomas Die]

nah i believe that he reason for becoming red was just him maturing into a full grown imp/demon as when he was deerlike brown he was a fawn or other words not fully mature yet 

so he wouldn't change depending on the souls he absorbed 

[Fuffles]

Im getting Wagstaff vibes from this thread, this guy can literally make a projected clone that somehow still functions as a person (pick up things, eat stuff etc), build great machines. Im afraid the day this guy sets his butt on the throne

[minespatch]

I like to imagine the throne does three things: Acts as a battery for the constant, evolve the sitter of the throne while also draining their essence as the battery stated before, and when the sitter is replaced the user's viewpoint is thrown back for a timeloop(removing their memories to make them search for the throne again).

Maxwell might be a interesting exception due to how much the throne changed him that he still remembers Wilson. Wilson barely had time to sit due to Charlie coming over. It's just a theory though due to me enjoying the "book of lost things" by John Connolly.

With Charlie sitting on the throne, the rest of the cast have no need to focus on the throne like Pugna does. Pugna unfortunately thinks he can destroy the throne. Which feels like a Sisyphean task.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, thomas4845 said:

nah i believe that he reason for becoming red was just him maturing into a full grown imp/demon as when he was deerlike brown he was a fawn or other words not fully mature yet 

so he wouldn't change depending on the souls he absorbed 

I mean the animatic shows him hand-absorbing Krampus and THEN transforming and he has a Ancient Guardian skin ( a possible spin-off canon where he absorbed ancient guardian instead)

[Thomas Die]

well it's all down to speculation as even the devs get told off about lore

[minespatch]

8 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

he has a Ancient Guardian skin

The minotaur?

[Canis]

I feel like WX shouldn't be underestimated. If, for the sake of example, any survivor had the chance to turn and attack one another at any given time, WX-78 would be really high on that list. Even if he isn't that much stronger than a human being, his unpredictability makes him a liability, and therefore a threat.

Not to mention the fact that after a few snacks he becomes built like a concrete wall.

[Footman Crouch]

2 hours ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Im getting Wagstaff vibes from this thread, this guy can literally make a projected clone that somehow still functions as a person (pick up things, eat stuff etc), build great machines. Im afraid the day this guy sets his butt on the throne

I agree, i believe he is more dangerous than any survivor, mainly because the other want to leave, but he want to stay.

[Pop Guy]

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

I'm not sure about Maxwell or Wilson. While they did spend time on the throne, Maxwell seems to have lost most of his power, as shown in the Cyclum comic where he fails to muster a spell to kill a spider. We also know that the Codex Umbra could theroretically be used by anyone, due to Maxwell having scrathed the surface for his show, and that He's not even scratching the surface of the Codex thanks to one of Wortoxes quotes. And Wilson ofcourse, in addition to have only been on the throne for a few hours tops, got any power that he did absorb sucked right out of him by Charlie. so as far as we know, he is most definitly just a normal human.

Unfortunately, Klei never explained what "sitting on the throne" really means. Of course, we know that it must provide divine capacity, given that Maxwell literally created Constant's world from the ashes of a previous world, populating it with autonomous life forms.
Not only that, from Wagstaff we understand that the throne connects the worlds, another thing that was already intuitable, given that Maxwell had no problem to project himself wherever he wanted, apparently without limits of time or distance.
I would like to talk about time: does it make sense to talk about the concept of time, when somebody are seated on the throne? We know that in the Constant time is distorted. Being the throne "the Constant's heart" I believe that there is the maximum of space-time distortion. In short, I don't think even Wilson knows "how long" he remained on the throne.
In any case, I'm pretty sure that when we see Wilson's rework, his new powers will be related to the time he was sitting on the throne.

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

'm also not to sure about Wormwood's ability to control plants. Apart from his body forming, the only plant manipulation we see out of him are is his green thumb tab, all of which require already-magical living logs, so I'm not sure just how much he's controling them rather than he is asking them to grow in a spesific way.

Wormwood, however, we see that he creates himself "from nothing" as soon as his gem touches the ground. As far as we know it would seem to be virtually "immortal": unless you break the gem, I think it can reform itself again, and again, and again...

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

I would also like to note that the blunderbuss is not Warbucks exclusive, as anyone can make it in Hamlet.

True, but Warbucks is a colonialist. He has already used the rifle in guerrilla situations, he is probably a virtuous shooter.
In short, I'm not sure that a person who has never used a gun in his life (as most DS characters give me the impression) can use it well.
Not only; Warbucks, having the rifle in his portrait, should have entered Constant with his weapon, so he shouldn't waste any time finding the materials to build it.

For the rest I agree, WX-78 is a potentially dangerous, also because it can update itself and become a sort of tank.
On Wortox we all agree that in the trailer really does seem to have terrifying capabilities. 

[Canis]

20 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Well, the most dangerous and catastropic character is the character 'P', because it appears twice in 'Pop Guy'.

The 'O' on the other hand isn't that dangerous because if you use it wisely you can neutralise the danger of the 'P', turning 'Pop Guy' into 'Poop Guy'.

Destroyed with facts and logic /s

[ShadowDuelist]

Wickerbottom seems to be able to manipulate the universe through book crafting and reading, the fact that only 5 spellbooks exist at the moment (not taking into account the forge one's) also mean that at as she learns more of the world, there are new aspects of the constant she could learn to control. And she does all of this without the throne's power.

Despite her good nature, I think Wickerbottom is by far a force of nature, if she, for any reason, decided to "turn to the dark side" (which most likely wont happen, she's a nice old lady).

[NormalPinkerton]

I'm going with Wickerbottom, because her books are just insane. She apparently has the power to age things (Applied Horticulture), control the weather (The End Is Nigh), somehow attract/summon birds, tentacles and possibly other living things (Birds Of The World/On Tentacles), put people to sleep, which doesn't sound as threatning but is still pretty dangerous (Sleepytime Stories). Not to mention she is at same physical aptitude as Wilson, she also knows more than any character, even Wagstaff, so don't mess with Wickerbottom.

[Maxposting]

6 hours ago, minespatch said:

The minotaur?

yeah since it has the same looks ( and minotaur is the code name for the guardian )

[Superlucas1231]

I think the biggest thing people are missing is that Wickerbottom says she doesn't want to use the codex umbra, but she never said, or even showed, that she can't use it. It's also worth pointing out that Wicker is the only character (in DST) who can rival Maxwells ability with magic (e.g: Max can use Wicker's books in base game, and how Max and wicker are the only two Forge characters who start out - and use - tomes)

Also, despite what Wortoxs quote about the codex umbra may suggest, he himself can't use it nor can he use Wickers books (or at least, from what i've seen)  

And, mind you, Wicker never canonly sat on the throne - so she's somehow able to use all of these spells to manipulate the world and those around her just by herself. 

[Zhuzha]

About Wilson's time on the Throne - correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it implied somewhere that the giants are his creations? If so, you could argue there may be some leftover Them influence in him.

EDIT: Disregard this, i figured I've got official lore and fan theorizing mixed up in my head.

[Zeklo]

6 minutes ago, Zhuzha said:

About Wilson's time on the Throne - correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it implied somewhere that the giants are his creations? If so, you could argue there may be some leftover Them influence in him.

That's a first. What gives you that impression?

[Theukon-dos]

On 8/27/2019 at 1:18 PM, Pop Guy said:

~~snip~~

Wormwood, however, we see that he creates himself "from nothing" as soon as his gem touches the ground. As far as we know it would seem to be virtually "immortal": unless you break the gem, I think it can reform itself again, and again, and again...

 

True. However, this is exactly the opposite of what we see in-game, where he has the hardest time healing out of all the charcters. He also formed the body out of a single root, so if part of that root was destroyed, we don't know if he would be able to re-grow that part quickly

On 8/27/2019 at 1:18 PM, Pop Guy said:

True, but Warbucks is a colonialist. He has already used the rifle in guerrilla situations, he is probably a virtuous shooter.
In short, I'm not sure that a person who has never used a gun in his life (as most DS characters give me the impression) can use it well.
Not only; Warbucks, having the rifle in his portrait, should have entered Constant with his weapon, so he shouldn't waste any time finding the materials to build it.

 

While the materials thing is a good point, I would like to point out that Wolfgang's millitary background (even ignoring his unused soldier skin, we know from his vigennete that he served in the millitary) means that he would likley know how to use a gun just as well, or even better than Warbucks. And that's in addition to his mighty form, and the potential for him to also have some understanding of millitary tactics and warfare.