So Why Was DST A Re-Release Anyways

[spideswine]

On 11/5/2017 at 7:06 PM, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Sorry, but this is just wrong.

For example, the Extra-Adorable Lavae is more suited for single-player than multiplayer. In DST, you log out and it's just abandoned, and as the world keeps running because it's multiplayer, it will just die.

It's kind of a burden anyway though, and I don't see it changing much in single player(though yeah it probably can be a bit less of a burden there).

Also I think leaving it in some remote area(especially underground), where people rarely go will probably work, I'm not sure though, never bothered with that thing.

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Same deal with Beefalo riding. The whole taming process is a laborious task that takes many, many days, and if you log out, the world keeps running and if you miss just one day, the whole process has to be started again from scratch. And once you do tame it, you have to keep feeding it and riding it DAILY for it to stay domesticated.

Salt licks are a thing.

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 And that's not even mentioning the fact that when you leave, it's vulnerable to be murdered by literally anything. There is no point in having domesticated Beefalo in DST, unless you have your own private server and are playing solo style.

At least dst has klaus and dfly, where the ornery beefalo(the only type which isn't completely useless) can be well...not useless.

They would have even less uses in original DS than in dst, and they barely have any uses in DST.

 

I mean you make a point out of missing these things, most people don't even bother with them to begin with, why would they be missed?

[Rellimarual]

They just dropped new content into Shipwrecked. And before anyone starts pooh-poohing that, it brought me back to that game and I’m still playing it and enjoying it. I’ve always enjoyed SW and have been meaning to play it again.

The point about the modded version of gates and fences is that the whole functionality of both seems to be incompatible with how DS deals with built structures. If they have to redo huge chunks of infrastructure of the game (and I’m not saying they do, but it seems likely), then I can see why they would not want to do that just to add fences and gates.

[Toroic]

4 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Could we please get some confirmation on this? Will there ever be updates for DS (not including Shipwrecked or Hamlet)? Can you please confirm so we can stop hoping and making posts about something that will never come?

I'm not sure what you want from Klei, and it's pretty clear you don't either.  Their intentions on updating DS (not including SW or Hamlet) are pretty obvious when you consider there hasn't been updates in a long time, and most of the people who play singleplayer don't *want* updates changing anything.

If I've learned anything from watching people "hoping and making posts about something that will never come" is that there is no amount of communication that will convince them or please them.  Asking whether SW content is coming to DST is a weekly to biweekly question, and there's this ridiculous post on these forums asking whether Hamlet really isn't coming to DST, when it could not possibly have been more clear with how it was announced.  Klei has been providing tons of content with SW updates, Hamlet on the way, and Forge.  You have at least two recent posts complaining with varying levels of histrionics and very little understanding or perspective.

If Klei was working on something they'll tell people when they're ready to.  They ARE continuing to develop singleplayer, it's called hamlet and the SW beta.  I don't understand what you're struggling to grasp about that concept. 

[Loopy Ouroboros]

I like to look at how DS and DST are consider separate games, in the same way most Call of Duty titles handle their singleplayer and multiplayer game modes.

In singleplayer COD, an assault rifle will usually defeat an enemy in one shot. The multiplayer version does it in three or four. The former is because you have one rifle among hundreds, while the latter has the teams evenly balanced and in a tighter map. DS runs a similar note. Deerclops is a formidable foe against a lone Wilson with just a spear and his wits, but match the same boss against a half dozen players working together to bring him down, and he's barely a struggle. Death is barely a problem at all, and with the easily crafted tell-tale hearts, practically buffed life-giving amulets, as well as a cheaper recipe for the meat effigy, the perma-death so often experienced in DS is just not an issue.

My insight is that teamwork as a whole is encouraged. Plenty of mobs, friendly or otherwise, take more punishment then ever. A second player can easily counter this aspect, and that is probably what was intended. DS is fun as it is, but it is balanced towards an unforgiving, constant singleplayer experience. DST is significantly easier, but I think that is to emphasis on having a fun time with your friends over a specific end-game in mind. I mean, there's still the ruins and everything, but I usually only play enough to see the Shadow Manipulator being crafted, if I'm lucky.

To wrap it up, my point is that DS and DST are two different styles of play. Just like any other multiplayer-centered game match, you can jump right in the middle of a seasoned server of DST and have everything done for you the moment you spawn in. DS is different, as you have to start from the beginning like any other campaign. Don't Starve as a whole is a brilliant game, but for the sake of determining what is good for multiplayer and what is not, I think the two gamemodes are best separated. I'm not so sure about the fences and beefalo taming, but I'd reckon some mods would help with that.

Spoiler

So this is my first post here... I know I just wanted to express my thoughts on the matter, but I'm not so sure if such a big post would be the best impression for a newbie. Regardless, I now just want to say hi!

 

 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

At least dst has klaus and dfly, where the ornery beefalo(the only type which isn't completely useless) can be well...not useless.

Same thing can be said about Smallbird...and yet they are such an iconic part of Don't Starve. There's all these stories about people raising them andall the tragedies of people loosing them.

Basically, I like pets. I like having pets in this game. So the idea of Beefalo taming and the Larva not being available in DS really makes me sad. Especially, when they are two mechanics where, and nobody has yet been able to argue against this, they are two mechanics that make more sense in Singleplayer than multiplayer.

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

They just dropped new content into Shipwrecked. And before anyone starts pooh-poohing that, it brought me back to that game.

You said for free...

1 hour ago, Toros said:

I'm not sure what you want from Klei, and it's pretty clear you don't either.   

I just want to know why. That's all, and for them to address it especially because... 

(Ok, this gonna sound ridiculous, but imma say it anyway)

I feel a little bit betrayed. When they first announced DST, I supported it and I remember talking to people who were upset at the time, and telling people that they had no reason to be worried. Little did I know, that DST meant that they would stop updating the core game. It's a silly thing, I know, but it really bugs me.

1 hour ago, Toros said:

Asking whether SW content is coming to DST is a weekly to biweekly question, and there's this ridiculous post on these forums asking whether Hamlet really isn't coming to DST, when it could not possibly have been more clear with how it was announced. 

Surely, if a large portion of the fan base is discontent, it's important that they are heard, right? Whether it changes anything or not is irrelevant. If someone has a problem with the game, they should express it. I don't see why that's a problem.

1 hour ago, Toros said:

 Klei has been providing tons of content with SW updates, Hamlet on the way, and Forge.

Yeah, sorry, I can't get on the "everything is great train".

I appreciate that Klei keeps adding stuff to the game, but honestly, most of the new stuff I've been mostly disappointed with: 

- For all the beautiful work they did on Shipwrecked, it was awfully implemented. We wanted to sail the waters of RoG, not have a new game with what basically was a lot of reskins/alternate versions of already existing mobs.

- Content segregation with ANR and Shipwrecked.

- Winona (seriously, can anyone defend this?)

- Hamlet is looking to be repeating the same problems that Shipwrecked had. 

- Forge was fun for like a week (although it's too early to tell).

I have my criticisms and that's ok. I shouldn't be forced to overtly positive about everything. Don't Starve has issues and it's important that we address them. 

1 hour ago, Toros said:

They ARE continuing to develop singleplayer, it's called hamlet and the SW beta.  I don't understand what you're struggling to grasp about that concept. 

A) It's paid for DLC.

B) I want to be access most content in one game. Not have 3 different games, where I have to create new worlds from scratch to be able to access everything.

C) And unlike RoG and ANR, Hamlet and Shipwrecked are shard worlds (which I freaking hate so much that that's a thing, although Hamlet might feel a little bit more natural than Shipwrecked). It's not actually updating the core game like we used to back in the day. 

1 hour ago, Commissar Oscar said:

I'm not so sure about the fences and beefalo taming, but I'd reckon some mods would help with that.

LOL nope.

1 hour ago, Commissar Oscar said:

 

  Hide contents

So this is my first post here... I know I just wanted to express my thoughts on the matter, but I'm not so sure if such a big post would be the best impression for a newbie. Regardless, I now just want to say hi!

 

 

Also, welcome to the forums. 

[Maslak]

1 minute ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

- For all the beautiful work they did on Shipwrecked, it was awfully implemented. We wanted to sail the waters of RoG, not have a new game with what basically was a lot of reskins/alternate versions of already existing mobs.

You're starting to speaking for everyone again.
I like SW as separate world and I'm glad it's not part of RoG (the Constant?).
But I have to agree about reskins/alternate versions thing, sadly.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

2 minutes ago, Maslak said:

You're starting to speaking for everyone again.
I like SW as separate world and I'm glad it's not part of RoG (the Constant?).
But I have to agree about reskins/alternate versions thing, sadly.

Sorry, I shouldn't do that. But you have to admit there was a big backlash over Shipwrecked when it first came out because of that reason.

Also, you honestly never wanted to have sealife and sailing in RoG?

[Maslak]

I don't know. I didn't have enough time to get bored of RoG, when I got the hang of it SW came out so I jumped right in.
As I said I like the worlds being separate. There's a way to link them and that's also fine.

[Zeklo]

16 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

A) It's paid for DLC.

One thing I felt obligated to point out:

That's to be expected. The ANR content that was "free" with DST was possible since we paid for DST. For the singleplayer game it's no different regarding Hamlet. They need money to keep adding content. This is their way of adding onto the singleplayer experience. Just as they are hoping to make money off the Forge skins to keep adding onto the multiplayer experience without DLCs—the point to not separate the DST community. Which isn't an issue with singeplayer, so they can use DLCs to bring in cash to put back into the game.

[Rellimarual]

21 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

2 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

They just dropped new content into Shipwrecked. And before anyone starts pooh-poohing that, it brought me back to that game.

You said for free...

I did. Because the recent beta updates to SW ARE free.

i think this is just a case of fantitlement. People think that because they really love the game, they understand it better than the devs do and get to tell them what they should do, generalize wildly from their own preferences to the larger community of players and otherwise pitch fits when they aren’t give their way.

However, it’s not true that you’re “not allowed” to criticize Klei or the games on the forums. People do it all the time without getting pushback. But when people post arrogant, presumptuous insults or take a snotty tone, yeah you do get pushback because others don’t agree with you or feel that there’s no reason to act as if you know better than anyone else how the game should be developed and accuse the people who actually made it of being incompetent or greedy. I don’t doubt the Curator is off somewhere sulking over how he’s not allowed to speak the truth to power here and everyone is Klei’s lapdog when it is really the disrespectful way he chooses to communicate that is the issue.

[spideswine]

45 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Same thing can be said about Smallbird...

More or less.

45 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

and yet they are such an iconic part of Don't Starve. There's all these stories about people raising them andall the tragedies of people loosing them.

Haven't heard/seen a single one of those(the only thing I've heard/seen is the stupidity of the tallbirds killing off smallbirds), they are very far from iconic.

45 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Basically, I like pets. I like having pets in this game. So the idea of Beefalo taming and the Larva not being available in DS really makes me sad. Especially, when they are two mechanics where, and nobody has yet been able to argue against this, they are two mechanics that make more sense in Singleplayer than multiplayer.

Yes, YOU like pets, most people don't bother with them, I've never seen someone deal with a lavae aside from instantly killing it, and rarely seen a beefalo being tamed(generally followed by rollbacks and frustration).

Let's face it: these features are very poorly received in dst(a good argument can be made that it's due to poor implementation), it makes very little sense to port something that failed so miserably over the fact that about two people liked the way it works in dst.

[Karmattack]

You can pause normal DS.

Checkmate. 

[Toroic]

26 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

1) Same thing can be said about Smallbird...and yet they are such an iconic part of Don't Starve. There's all these stories about people raising them andall the tragedies of people loosing them.

2) I feel a little bit betrayed. When they first announced DST, I supported it and I remember talking to people who were upset at the time, and telling people that they had no reason to be worried. Little did I know, that DST meant that they would stop updating the core game. It's a silly thing, I know, but it really bugs me.

3) Surely, if a large portion of the fan base is discontent, it's important that they are heard, right? Whether it changes anything or not is irrelevant. If someone has a problem with the game, they should express it. I don't see why that's a problem.

4) For all the beautiful work they did on Shipwrecked, it was awfully implemented. We wanted to sail the waters of RoG, not have a new game with what basically was a lot of reskins/alternate versions of already existing mobs.

5) Hamlet is looking to be repeating the same problems that Shipwrecked had. 

6) Forge was fun for like a week (although it's too early to tell).

7) I have my criticisms and that's ok. I shouldn't be forced to overtly positive about everything. Don't Starve has issues and it's important that we address them. 

8) I want to be access most content in one game. Not have 3 different games, where I have to create new worlds from scratch to be able to access everything.

9) And unlike RoG and ANR, Hamlet and Shipwrecked are shard worlds (which I freaking hate so much that that's a thing, although Hamlet might feel a little bit more natural than Shipwrecked). It's not actually updating the core game like we used to back in the day. 

1) Smallbirds aren't even remotely iconic.  They're basically useless and even tallbirds kill their own smallbirds when they hatch.  Everyone's tried to raise them, realize they're needy and ultimately useless, and then found more useful things to do.

2) The vast majority of people who play RoG don't want changes.  Period.  You can either accept that or be mad about it quietly, because it's a bad idea to change it.

3) A "large portion" isn't discontent, a very loud and annoying minority is.  Discontent people stop playing the game.  It's also not important that people share their opinion unless it has value.  Updating RoG is a bad idea because it would piss off loyal fans and please... you?  You don't represent any meaningful portion of the community, and you don't even play singleplayer because it makes you "feel sad".

4) Shipwrecked was largely Capy, not Klei developing it and where exactly were people saying they were mad about it and wanted to "Sail the waters of RoG"  That was never, ever a thing that people asked for or part of any plan by the devs.

5) It's amazing you are such an expert on something no one has details on when you're barely aware of things that have been clearly going on for years now.  You don't know what Hamlet is going to be like, so drawing conclusions it's making the same mistakes as SW is absolute obvious ********.

6) It's a two or three week event, so that sounds about right.  The idea is Klei can do multiple short term events funded by optional skin packs.  They were super clear about that.

7) Not in my wildest dreams am I hoping you're going to be positive about the game.  I'd really like you to share your opinion less since it tends to be riddled with fundamental misunderstandings about a lot of things.

8) Good for you?  How am I supposed to react to that except "that's not reality, so get over it"?

9) Who is "we" exactly since you didn't update anything.  RoG was enormously successful in adding onto base content, but adding a similar level of complexity again would be too much.  Having it like SW or hamlet lets them try out new and different gameplay.

Also, you are the only person who cares about extra-adorable larvae being useless in multiplayer because it is also useless in solo DST worlds.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, Karmattack said:

You can pause normal DS.

Checkmate. 

You can pause DST too. Although it does require a mod...

[watermelen671]

5 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

LOL nope.

Boom. Enjoy.

[Auth]

On 11/5/2017 at 8:36 AM, TheKingofSquirrels said:

When you make a sequel, you don't go back to adding content to the first game, because everyone should be playing the sequel. 

Dang, guess I can never play Super Mario Bros. again. Time to play only Super Mario Odyssey, famed sequel to Super Mario iliad

[watermelen671]

5 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

But you have to admit there was a big backlash over Shipwrecked when it first came out because of that reason.

From what I can recall, there was actually a LOT of hype towards Shipwrecked when it was first announced.

But I believe the main cause of the backlash was due to the fact that the DLC was riddled with bugs and glitches at launch, which is an oddity when compared to Klei's usual polished products at launch. (I chalk it up to Capy. :3)

And said bugs and glitches took Klei a bit to find and fix, which in turn caused some players to badmouth the DLC and caused it to get a bad rep as a result; which, being real, is literally every devs' worst nightmare. Good word of mouth is what makes or breaks a game, both financially and the player's confidence in Klei. #HelpFeedJambell

I definitely think Klei learned from that, and are working their butts off ensuring that it doesn't happen again. So cut them some slack, ok? @JoeW's already whipping them enough. 

(wait, would it be Joe, or @Bigfoot that would be the one to whip the devs...#ForumsOutOfContext)

Spoiler

(I love you Joe, please no ban. )

 

[GuyNamedChris]

You do know this topic was beaten into the ground back in like, late 2015? Why bring it up now?

[Pyromailmann]

I may as well throw my dusty hat into the ring.

From what I know about programming (which ranges from surface level to Amateur), it mainly has to do with the differences made between DS and DST. This can be worlds supporting multiple players (which when I remember was one of the difficulties initially stated why DST wasn't made from the get-go), the scenario of players dying (which was worked on heavily if my memory is correct) and other stuff like combat, or difficulty (take into account DST enemies tend to be tankier, my information may be faulty so apologies if this is false). Not to mention the likely engine changes when Klei converted DS to DST.

The point is, the differences from making Don't Starve Together a Multiplayer game from Don't Starve are numerous and the explanation of why the two are separate games could be easily summarized with heavy changes in the programming.

[Josonic]

9 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

You can pause DST too. Although it does require a mod...

If it requires mods than you can't say you can do it. Many of us either can't (console players like myself) or won't (consider it cheating, such as myself) use mods

6 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

But I believe the main cause of the backlash was due to the fact that the DLC was riddled with bugs and glitches at launch, which is an oddity when compared to Klei's usual polished products at launch. (I chalk it up to Capy. :3)

And said bugs and glitches took Klei a bit to find and fix, which in turn caused some players to badmouth the DLC and caused it to get a bad rep as a result; which, being real, is literally every devs' worst nightmare. Good word of mouth is what makes or breaks a game, both financially and the player's confidence in Klei. #HelpFeedJambell

I haven't played the beta, so I can't speak to changes made there, but SW is still riddled with bugs (IMO such bad bugs that make it unplayable)

[spideswine]

25 minutes ago, Josonic said:

 (consider it cheating, such as myself)

If you consider something to be a cheat, why would you want it added to the base game?

[Josonic]

54 minutes ago, spideswine said:

If you consider something to be a cheat, why would you want it added to the base game?

First of all, I never claimed I wanted it in the base game, although I understand how that could be implied, even though it wasn't my intention. And to the point, I consider it a cheat because it's not in the base game

[Spaartan]

This is so much fun to watch

[Rellimarual]

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

I haven't played the beta, so I can't speak to changes made there, but SW is still riddled with bugs (IMO such bad bugs that make it unplayable)

When did you last play it?

[Lumina]

Thank @JoeW for answering here !

8 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

But I believe the main cause of the backlash was due to the fact that the DLC was riddled with bugs and glitches at launch, which is an oddity when compared to Klei's usual polished products at launch. (I chalk it up to Capy. :3)

This. Also, i must say, i was enthusiast at first, but maybe also the concept of sailing isn't as attractive as it could sound in a game like don't starve.

I mean, exploring is great, but i'm not really in a nomadic playstyle and i feel that all is empty. And if a part could be resolved, it's hard to make a sea that isn't empty. Maybe it's that finding an island isn't rewarding enough, i don't know.

This is my personal taste, of course.

42 minutes ago, Josonic said:

And to the point, I consider it a cheat because it's not in the base game

Which is  a strange logic for me, i must admit.

Console command is in the base game but would be cheating for me, when using a mod to add content or quality of life option would not. If you like the option provided by a mod, use it, do not deprive yourself of fun because of arbitrary rules. If Klei allows mod and modding it's because they allow you to have fun with them, and include them in the legit experience. They even do stream with mod and feature some of them.