V2C

[Game Update] - Herd Mentality (BETA 198138)

Recommended Posts

Sinister_Fang    8783
45 minutes ago, Mday said:

I have. It is hard to say if the dev will eventually put that assets into use thou. There were many example in the past that assets found in game files were left aside and never touch again.

And this is still a beta. A lot of things started as only being partly implemented. I'm fairly sure we'll be seeing more with the deer.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesBucket    804

Need help folks. I have trouble finding No eyed deers. I use console command c_gonext("deer") but that goes nowhere, meaning they haven't spawned yet. Went around to mozaic, forest, savanah biomes but no luck there either. I know how to c_spawn("deer") but I want to find them in their natural habitat. Is there a specific season they spawn? Also tried to spawn deer with antler using c_spawn("deerantler") but got nothing. How do you get those guys?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gabblox    11

People seem to be quite underwhelmed by the effect of the Queen Bee hat so as a suggestion:

Make it so that while wearing the hat butterflies that get planted are made into dark flowers instead of regular flowers. This will give players more ready access to insanity aura and gives it a simple but powerful effect that's thematically fitting and gives rise to new base building options. A lot of people have flowers in part of their base for their bees, and now you'll be hanging out with your bees more often wearing the bee crown to regen sanity. Definitely sounds like better boss tier sanity regen than the tam o'shanter.

Edited by gabblox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rawsie    14

I deeply hope No Eye Deer will be updated at some point, giving them some special traits, special drops or any interesting feature really. Their current state is kind of disappointing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadowDuelist    4968

Just my 2 cents on some of the subjects:

  • About game difficulty for experienced players: maybe after day 200, seasonal bosses should increase in numbers: EG: instead of one deerclops you get 2 spawned, and after day 400 you get 3, and so on until 6 or 7 deerclops on really long lasting servers. Same for bearger and bee queen.
    Raid Bosses such as Toadstool and dfly will not increase in numbers, but they could just increase their max HP each time they were killed and respawn, and after enough days (400+) they will also fight faster, and drop more loot.
  • About pets: im thinking about castle crashers here, pets should just be there, and once and then assist in something, making it marginally useful but usefull nontheless. Eg: playful glomglom will drop glommer goop every 5-6 days, combat glomglom will randomly raise your sanity by 40 points during battle once every 6-7 days. What they do, depends on how they are being handled and the preffix. But in a team based game it would be wise to have different pets to synergize their "eventual" advantages.

New players and their worlds usually don't last that long, so it still gives them a chance to keep learning and having fun.
And for hardcore players they'll eventually need to fight their asses against each horde of giants, or an ever improving raid boss, harder but more rewarding each time, forcing you to change strategies and cooperate more. It also follows the idea of "the world will try to kill you" but to a deeper ground, where the world actually adapts to be more hostile towards you over time, instead of easier due to your preparation.

Edited by ShadowDuelist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EuedeAdodooedoe    1187
2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Just my 2 cents on some of the subjects:

  • About game difficulty for experienced players: maybe after day 200, seasonal bosses should increase in numbers: EG: instead of one deerclops you get 2 spawned, and after day 400 you get 3, and so on until 6 or 7 deerclops on really long lasting servers. Same for bearger and bee queen.
    Raid Bosses such as Toadstool and dfly will not increase in numbers, but they could just increase their max HP each time they were killed and respawn, and after enough days (400+) they will also fight faster, and drop more loot.
  • About pets: im thinking about castle crashers here, pets should just be there, and once and then assist in something, making it marginally useful but usefull nontheless. Eg: playful glomglom will drop glommer goop every 5-6 days, combat glomglom will randomly raise your sanity by 40 points during battle once every 6-7 days. What they do, depends on how they are being handled and the preffix. But in a team based game it would be wise to have different pets to synergize their "eventual" advantages.

New players and their worlds usually don't last that long, so it still gives them a chance to keep learning and having fun.
And for hardcore players they'll eventually need to fight their asses against each horde of giants, or an ever improving raid boss, harder but more rewarding each time, forcing you to change strategies and cooperate more. It also follows the idea of "the world will try to kill you" but to a deeper ground, where the world actually adapts to be more hostile towards you over time, instead of easier due to your preparation.

I really think the changes in difficulty should be local to each player and not based on the world count, otherwise you could have 2 Deerclops going after a newbie of day 3 or something, which is something you really want to avoid.

As for pets... I honestly think they should grow up to serve a purpose of renewing some things related to them in the world. Kittycook and Vargling out of the five we have right now are the most obvious candidates for what could happen (e.g. Vargling growing into a Warg, which leaves you to craft a Hound Mound somewhere, Kittycoon growing into a Catcoon to craft a Catcoon Den or something along the lines), but as for the others, I'm not entirely sure, could be something entirely different. Perhaps you could get a stack of Glommer Goop when a Glomglom grows into a Glommer or something? XD But as for pets being useful while they're young, perhaps your kind of approach could be great.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadowDuelist    4968
2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I really think the changes in difficulty should be local to each player and not based on the world count, otherwise you could have 2 Deerclops going after a newbie of day 3 or something, which is something you really want to avoid.

The amount of giants or raid gaints HP won't change depending on amount of players, the whole point is that the world willl eventually be as reckless as possible and "perhaps" eventually murder you, going back to the basics of "let's see how much time I can make it this time". This could be changed in the world settings, perhaps a new mode you can change that states "giants evolution" default being exactly as it is now, advanced being as I described it, and "reckless" making such evolution much faster.
It would be different to the currently existing setting of giants to "lots", as this setting only makes the seasonal giants spawn more often.

Newbies rarely enter games beyond day 17, and worlds of new players, or public servers, rarely last longer than 60 days before they all die, someone burns everything, or a giant destroys the base, in which case they will not see any of these changes for a while. I strongly believe given my experience, that in non-endless dedicated servers, there is a connection between number of days passed and the level of players in it. Endless dedicated servers should probably not have any of this enabled, as its the only scenario in which I see possible what you mention: a world on day 2500 and new people randomly joining alone to meet their doom.
 

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

(e.g. Vargling growing into a Warg, which leaves you to craft a Hound Mound somewhere, Kittycoon growing into a Catcoon to craft a Catcoon Den or something along the lines)

I like that, it fits the "Nothing is permanent" common theme of the game, and forces you to have to re-make your pets once and then. Perhaps they could grow and leave after they've stayed with you one ingame year, or so.

Glommer is tied to a weird flower, perhaps glomglom could plant a special glommer flower growing on the floor and then fly away from you. This flower will populate a small area nearby where a lot of flowers (normal and evil) will gloom constantly (not on winter though). It'd work both as to make special places pretty or to feed your bee boxes. The special flower can be harvested for fuel, much like the normal glommer flower can be used for fuel when he dies, but this would end the flowers glooming in an area thing though.
The dragonling could, before flying away, spit out a chunk of lava, that will turn into a new type of rock. After mining it, you get some rocks and gems with a variable % chance (red, purple and blue high priority, yellow, green and orange lower priority)

 

Edited by ShadowDuelist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gabblox    11

DST is particularly difficult to balance challenge for because of the variability in player numbers on servers. A lot of DS players chose to play DST solo in survival mode because it's a nice way to gain access to new content and a more challenging experience. A lot more play with just one other person (usually a spouse or besty). Those people aren't looking for an infinitely difficult challenge that appears after x amount of time which is why most of DST's unique challenges are entirely opt-in. The shadow bosses, Toadstool, Queen Bee and Dragonfly are all opt-in fights that you can play the game without if you want to.

If the game is going to have prolonged life I think it needs a new area that's accessible through high tier items and has some sort of limit on how often you can access it (new moons?). Something like the final chapters of adventure mode, but filled to the brim with shadow creatures/clockworks. Since there's minimal light in the shadow world the threat of freezing could be persistent as well. For all that risk you need some sense of reward, so a craft station that lets you make 'shadow items' would be a good place to start. Shadow picks, axes, shovels, spears and generally lots of top-tier variants of existing consumable necessities and armors, and an alternative to the thelucite crown/suit. Instead of having a stairway or exit out of the shadow realm, the only way out should be able to escape is with an item you're forced to find/craft that spits you back to the main world's florid postern. I think they could do some really interesting stuff with charlie's nightmare themed zone. The current bosses have items that would help you prepare for a zone like this too (Toadstool lamps, Bee Queen Crown and Green gems from dragonfly), and the shadow atrium would most certainly be part of the recipe to get there. 

Also holy damn I just realised I want a shadow themed pet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AnonymousKoala    3635
11 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Just my 2 cents on some of the subjects:

  • About game difficulty for experienced players: maybe after day 200, seasonal bosses should increase in numbers: EG: instead of one deerclops you get 2 spawned, and after day 400 you get 3, and so on until 6 or 7 deerclops on really long lasting servers. Same for bearger and bee queen.
    Raid Bosses such as Toadstool and dfly will not increase in numbers, but they could just increase their max HP each time they were killed and respawn, and after enough days (400+) they will also fight faster, and drop more loot.
  • About pets: im thinking about castle crashers here, pets should just be there, and once and then assist in something, making it marginally useful but usefull nontheless. Eg: playful glomglom will drop glommer goop every 5-6 days, combat glomglom will randomly raise your sanity by 40 points during battle once every 6-7 days. What they do, depends on how they are being handled and the preffix. But in a team based game it would be wise to have different pets to synergize their "eventual" advantages.

New players and their worlds usually don't last that long, so it still gives them a chance to keep learning and having fun.
And for hardcore players they'll eventually need to fight their asses against each horde of giants, or an ever improving raid boss, harder but more rewarding each time, forcing you to change strategies and cooperate more. It also follows the idea of "the world will try to kill you" but to a deeper ground, where the world actually adapts to be more hostile towards you over time, instead of easier due to your preparation.

Personally I don't think this'll help. Increasing amounts doesn't mean much when they're still the same "challange", and even if it does it's not an interesting change. Also slapping more hp on something to make it harder is always the wrong way to go. Dfly's hp just makes the fight longer and toad's is enjoyable either way. Bee Queen could die in a fire for all I care tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rellimarual    4166

Why would bosses be the only way to make the late game harder? Seems like disease (making key resources more scarce) was an attempt to do this, but others could be climate change--hotter or colder--longer nights or the extinction of needed mobs over time. Maybe the vanishing pengulls is not a bug?

At any rate, games are not infinite and after playing DS for years I've stayed interested not just because Klei keeps adding new content but because when I get to an endpoint, where it feels like the current map lacks interesting challenges or projects, I have tried playing SW for a while or Adventure Mode, or a solo DST run (or play with a bunch of noobs!) or a character I've never used before or do a challenge run. Once you get to 300 days or so you can build a megabase or  set yourself some challenge like never using armor, or you could also just decide that you've finished that particular save despite the lack of an obvious ending and start something new. Realistically, it's hard to see how a single save can go on and on forever and stay interesting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sivdun    218
1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

Seems like disease (making key resources more scarce) was an attempt to do this, but others could be climate change--hotter or colder--longer nights or the extinction of needed mobs over time.

This, I like DS but fighting in this game isn't the best thing. We need more changes that work around the world, not more bosses and decor crafts. I'm still going to whine that they still didn't do anything new for the summer or we have no new armors or more weapons (electric dart isn't enough). There is like two updates left and I want to see more dynamic changes to the world setting, but with every update my hopes are lower and lower.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EuedeAdodooedoe    1187
17 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The amount of giants or raid gaints HP won't change depending on amount of players, the whole point is that the world willl eventually be as reckless as possible and "perhaps" eventually murder you, going back to the basics of "let's see how much time I can make it this time". This could be changed in the world settings, perhaps a new mode you can change that states "giants evolution" default being exactly as it is now, advanced being as I described it, and "reckless" making such evolution much faster.
It would be different to the currently existing setting of giants to "lots", as this setting only makes the seasonal giants spawn more often.

Newbies rarely enter games beyond day 17, and worlds of new players, or public servers, rarely last longer than 60 days before they all die, someone burns everything, or a giant destroys the base, in which case they will not see any of these changes for a while. I strongly believe given my experience, that in non-endless dedicated servers, there is a connection between number of days passed and the level of players in it. Endless dedicated servers should probably not have any of this enabled, as its the only scenario in which I see possible what you mention: a world on day 2500 and new people randomly joining alone to meet their doom.

 

And you're implying it should just stay that way by aiming for worlds which get reset on roughly day 60 and that the game should focus on the balancing of players joining >17 day in the world?

17 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I like that, it fits the "Nothing is permanent" common theme of the game, and forces you to have to re-make your pets once and then. Perhaps they could grow and leave after they've stayed with you one ingame year, or so.

Glommer is tied to a weird flower, perhaps glomglom could plant a special glommer flower growing on the floor and then fly away from you. This flower will populate a small area nearby where a lot of flowers (normal and evil) will gloom constantly (not on winter though). It'd work both as to make special places pretty or to feed your bee boxes. The special flower can be harvested for fuel, much like the normal glommer flower can be used for fuel when he dies, but this would end the flowers glooming in an area thing though.
The dragonling could, before flying away, spit out a chunk of lava, that will turn into a new type of rock. After mining it, you get some rocks and gems with a variable % chance (red, purple and blue high priority, yellow, green and orange lower priority)

 

What you seem to mean by "nothing is permanent" is bad for a multiplayer game like this one. Others' actions affect the world for you, destroying content you might not even have had the chance to experience. Many others would agree too that everything at least in some form should be renewable (although I am not sure whether what most mean by renewable is just being possible to multiply or it being impossible to permanently devoid a world of the specific entity), be it through your interaction or not.

Feeling kind of meh in terms of Glomglom and Broodling ideas, if you're talking in terms of them growing up and leaving or something along the lines. There's also Ewelet, which in correspondence with the previously mentioned Vargling and Kittycoon doesn't seem to really be possible of making anything in particular useful renewably, as Ewecus is renewable through footprints regardless.

Edited by EuedeAdodooedoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadowDuelist    4968
2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

And you're implying it should just stay that way by aiming for worlds which get reset on roughly day 60 and that the game should focus on the balancing of players joining >17 day in the world?

Since many worlds get reset before day 60, no change beyond that date will be noticed by many players is what I mean. The "newbies do not join beyond day 17" was just an estimate and as an example, like my signature reads, we also have the "hi.. im freezing what do i do" mid winter joiners :p
 

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

What you seem to mean by "nothing is permanent" is bad for a multiplayer game like this one

I didn't suggest that pets eventually grow, I did see viable, according to your suggestion, that if they grow, they do something for the world (like a vargling turning into a varg and making a hound mound, as you suggested) and then they must leave you.
If you meant by growing that we actually get to keep large grown pets such as a Varg or an ewecus, the game is gonna be quite imbalanced. You could add that as a mod though, could look fun for a while.
As stated in my original post, I believe pets should just be there for the lookst, and once every X amount of days do something marginally useful which varies with each pet and the way they were raised. But in my opinion, if they grow to become their adult counterpart, and for balance purposes, they need to either leave you, or attack you.
 

Edited by ShadowDuelist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadyPK    304

Some ideas I had for traits is that they can give you some multipliyer or slight boost of sorts

like Scrappy/Fighter - Get a very slight boost in damage because your pet believes in you

Crafty- get a chance of 10-15 sanity when creating items evn if they aren't new

Well Fed- Extra Stats when eating food, or gain sanity when cooking food?

Playful- Sanity aura when the pet rubs against you and a small 1-2 points of sanity when pet once in a while

I dunno just some ideas

 

Also we shouldnt worry about challenge either, it's not like ANR is gonna be the "end of updates" I'm sure we'll get more through time. and Im sure they are saving the big game changes for near the end so that way people dont need to reset servers. Cause it's a pain in the ass usually. YES I KNOW some people dont mind it but remember Klei is trying to make everyone happy. I mean lets face it the main goal of Normal Dont starve at first was to get through adventure mode anywho so...Enjoy the calm before the storm mayhaps? and enjoy free updates from a company that has been trying their best. I dont mind the socializing and cosmetics, cause if tf2 has taught me anything it helps keep the game lively, I mean when taunts and other things were added people thought it was the "End of the World" Now everyone loves them. So just be happy guys and stop fighting over "casual" and "tough stuph" that's what mods are for if things get to easy or to hard anyways, let's just all enjoy the free content and (hopefully soon more lore) all get along. Don't make Chester upset guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
minespatch    68027

Sheesh, a lot of negativity around this particular update. I saw the beta post for this but let's keep cautiously optimistic, guys. The game is constantly evolving, we'll get some beneficial updates in a week or two to help the game out.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
minespatch    68027

Sorry to do a double post but you guys might want to hold off complaints about the deer until these things might be important for the Moon-theme.

On 11/25/2016 at 1:51 AM, Instant-Noodles said:

 

 

 

 

 

Are you guys referring to the gem and chain?  Those are actually the default states in the animation files. The chain is referenced as "klaus_deer_chain" and there's actually a blue gem version too.

  Hide contents

Blue Gem / No Klaus Chain & Gem
deer_bluegem.gif deer_nocollar.gif

Gems 
swap_antler_blue-0.png swap_antler_red-0.png

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EuedeAdodooedoe    1187
2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Since many worlds get reset before day 60, no change beyond that date will be noticed by many players is what I mean. The "newbies do not join beyond day 17" was just an estimate and as an example, like my signature reads, we also have the "hi.. im freezing what do i do" mid winter joiners :p
 

True, true... I would rather be up for changing Survival, so that it doesn't just cater for short-term survival, but for a few hundred days too perhaps? Just a thought [I was a bit sarcastic here, dunno why]. It would suck in all honesty for the default survival mode to not be able to present any late-game to public servers. There are ways of changing it so that public survival servers can have both early and late-game more broad, so I thought it would be better to tweak Survival mode in terms of that, not only so that it reflects single player more (i.e. single player being representative of both long and short-lived worlds), but that other mechanics could be more reasonably tweaked for experiencing later on in the game.

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I didn't suggest that pets eventually grow, I did see viable, according to your suggestion, that if they grow, they do something for the world (like a vargling turning into a varg and making a hound mound, as you suggested) and then they must leave you.
If you meant by growing that we actually get to keep large grown pets such as a Varg or an ewecus, the game is gonna be quite imbalanced. You could add that as a mod though, could look fun for a while.
As stated in my original post, I believe pets should just be there for the lookst, and once every X amount of days do something marginally useful which varies with each pet and the way they were raised. But in my opinion, if they grow to become their adult counterpart, and for balance purposes, they need to either leave you, or attack you.
 

For the looks? Nononono... Unless you're all for the game being extremely like club penguin or binweevils, where you have your character to play with, talk to others and look kawai with your little pet on your shoulder, this is really a bad way of implementing them for a survival game. If they're gonna be in the game which looks at survival more than anything, mechanics more like that of Smallbirds would really be better fitting, imho. Of course, not the say that smallbirds aren't flawed, they're very much, but the general idea of them growing up and doing something in the world that might benefit you in the near or far future is what I'm trying ti imply here. And yes, of course, I'm not exactly for the idea of "raise a broodling and in a few days, bam, time to take your dragonfly out for a hell of a ride!" due to this being obviously OP in game mechanics. But for a social part of the game, if the game were separated into different mechanics for real survival and just social interaction and goofing around with fanciness, the whole idea of it being OP might fall kind of flat. Again, if the game does get split, I wouldn't really care about the social club part of it, I'd just wanna play potentially harsh survival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheKingDedede    3190
On 11/29/2016 at 1:43 AM, JamesBucket said:

Need help folks. I have trouble finding No eyed deers. I use console command c_gonext("deer") but that goes nowhere, meaning they haven't spawned yet. Went around to mozaic, forest, savanah biomes but no luck there either. I know how to c_spawn("deer") but I want to find them in their natural habitat. Is there a specific season they spawn? Also tried to spawn deer with antler using c_spawn("deerantler") but got nothing. How do you get those guys?

Check out @Instant-Noodles post on the last page. Should be helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sinister_Fang    8783
10 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I still have yet to see ANY deer. I must be doing something wrong, or looking in the wrong places...

...Notorious

When the new update comes out, I don't think you're gonna want to find them...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Radax3    100
9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I still have yet to see ANY deer. I must be doing something wrong, or looking in the wrong places...

...Notorious

Found mine in deciduous forest, during second autumn.

9 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

When the new update comes out, I don't think you're gonna want to find them...

Gem-eyed deer might just be Krampus-Claus minions. Their attack sfx looks really cool, though.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arpheros    0

Hi. For some reason the game didn't update for me. I can't get craft beeswax and wax paper too. Console commands didn't work for these items. Can anybody help me with this ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GentlemanFridge    1357
1 hour ago, Arpheros said:

Hi. For some reason the game didn't update for me. I can't get craft beeswax and wax paper too. Console commands didn't work for these items. Can anybody help me with this ?

Are you sure you're playing in the ANR Beta? Sounds like you're on the main branch. There's thread stickied on the General Discussion page how to enable the Beta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now