Is Klei starting to stumble?

[Battal]

It's not lightly that I say this, since I've been around for a very long time and I have a lot of faith in Klei to make good decisions and design great games.  But in recent months, I've been seeing a lot of threads criticizing multiple choices they've made recently.  At first, I brushed it off as people being sore for no reason; most of the threads were overly hateful, suspicious, or mean.  But now I'm starting to wonder; are they right?

First, let's look at one of their first missteps - having Shipwrecked be standalone.  Yeah, I know, it's technically compatible with Reign of Giants, and you can switch between SW and RoG worlds, but...it's such a waste of potential.  Imagine having a sea battle against a Dragonfly, or pummeling the Bearger from afar with a Boat Cannon, or discovering a Glommer Statue on a lonely Autumnal island.  They had so much cool stuff they could have added, but instead we just got Shipwrecked by itself.  Which is still good, just not as amazing as it could have been.

Next, and probably most controversial, we have the skins.  In my opinion, there are so many things wrong with skins it's impossible to put them in one thread.  Basically, you stand around for hours waiting for a present to fall out of the sky, then you hope that present has the specific thing you want, and then you go sell/trade it for a ridiculous price because nobody in their right mind would ever want to waste that much time.  It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator.  And not a good one. 

Skins should not have ANY value whatsoever.  No trading, no selling, no grinding, none of that.  They should be these neat little things you can use to customize your character.  That's it.  Change the way you find them to something more hands-on; like having them spawn somewhere in the world, or crafting them at a Wardrobe.  And if someone cheats them in, who cares?  They're not worth anything, they're just graphical things.  Giving skins "value" just feels like it's turning the game into an MMO, something along the lines of "BUY THIS CHESTER MOUNT FOR 18.99!"  or  "SPECIAL AXE SKIN DLC FOR 9.99!"

I can't be the only one with these concerns, and I hope you'll see where I'm coming from and at least try to understand my viewpoint.  I want Klei to do well, I'm just not sure if they're heading in the right direction.  Please keep things below civil, and...yeah, that's all I have to say.

[oCrapaCreeper]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Battal said:

And finally, something I don't think many people know about...which is Klei commissioning various people from the community to write the lore for the characters (And potentially the whole game; again, not much info.)  This is not to say they aren't some great authors out there, and I'm sure they'll handle it well, but here's the thing; one of the intriguing things about Don't Starve IS the mystery of it.  If after all the theories about Them, the world itself, and the characters, how would you like it if they suddenly said "Oh, yeah, They are actually a bunch of scientists, the world is a hologram, and the characters are all from a mental hospital with a condition that makes them thing it's the 1940s.  What a twist!"  Not that this'll be what they come up with, but just think about it.  All those theories, all those stories, everything the community has produced all these years, and: nope!  All of it's false. 

Do we have any confirmation of this aside from the comment in the other thread?

[JoeW]

To clarify here, we did not commission anybody for lore and I have requested that the poster not misrepresent themselves as employed by Klei. 

 

 

[Battal]

29 minutes ago, JoeW said:

To clarify here, we did not commission anybody for lore and I have requested that the poster not misrepresent themselves as employed by Klei. 

 

 

Ah, alright. I edited that part out.  Sorry for the confusion.

[MikeyMusic]

2 hours ago, Lord_Battal said:

(A)  First, let's look at one of their first missteps - having Shipwrecked be standalone.

(B) Next, and probably most controversial, we have the skins... It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator. Skins should not have ANY value whatsoever. Change the way you find them to something more hands-on; like having them spawn somewhere in the world, or crafting them at a Wardrobe.  And if someone cheats them in, who cares?

I can't be the only one with these concerns, and I hope you'll see where I'm coming from and at least try to understand my viewpoint.

I think all of your concerns a valid and I know a lot of people share these views. That being said, I really do think that some of the issues can be accounted for by realizing they might be a bigger reflection of the players than Klei. Of course Klei isn't going to come out and say "you guys need to stop complaining because it's your problem, not ours," but I do feel that, if some people maybe tried not to be so negative about a lot of things, they might actually appreciate what's in front of them.

--

(A) So shipwrecked is a standalone instead of something that can be simultaneously run with ROG. The first thing to note here is that Shipwrecked itself is packed with content, so trying to put all the ROG stuff in there as well will both overload the experience, and also cheapen it. Shipwrecked being an entirely individual experience helps it feel fresh, new, and mysterious.

I get what you're saying specifically about the Giants though. It would be pretty awesome to have to find new shipwrecked-specific ways to fight them. But I think it's something that works better in our heads than in actual operation. The giants would probably have to be reworked specifically for SW, and at that point it might have more value to just make new giants/threats.

--

(B) SKINS! While I don't think it's a bad opinion to say that skins have ruined DST, I really do think that a statement like that reflects somebody's personality more than it reflects the game itself...

Skins don't make DST a grinding simulator. Somebody's vanity and impatience make DST a grinding simulator. There's no need to play DST just for the skins unless a person really just is that concerned about looking cool --  a personal problem that probably manifests itself outside of the game itself as well.

Skins are rewarded basically for free. All you have to do is open up the game, play it the exact same as you always have, and eventually a present might show up. If playing the game is suddenly a burden because of skins, that can't really be helped. All it means is either (a) the person playing has such little patience that they NEED to have what they want right away, or (b) they didn't like DST in the first place and are only playing it for the skins, in which case they're probably gonna stop playing once they get the skins, which is overall a waste of time.

Another popular complaint about skins is the fact that they can be traded or sold, and that the market prices might be a bit high. I really struggle to see why this is an issue. It's not that they HAVE to be traded or sold. So what's the fuss? Just don't buy it... right?

I don't mean to sound like a jackass, but I really do feel that most of the frustration stems from people being impatient or ungrateful.

**As a side note, I'm not saying that it would be a bad idea to make all the skins free and immediately available. That would solve all the commotion instantaneously. However, I still don't think this is something that NEEDS to happen, and I also don't think we're ready for something like this with so few skins. There aren't a whole lot of unique items, so we'd mostly see players wearing the same 5-15 items; kinda defeats the purpose of skins and cheapens them a bit.

--

I think it's good that you raise these concerns, and I am on your side about this. It worries me that there are a lot to complaints going around. I just wanted to be the devil's advocate and point out why some of the things actually are the way that they are. I hope Klei is able to maintain stability, and I think they're doing a good job of producing new content and staying in touch with their customers/players.

I originally had a lot more text here but trimmed it down. I hope I didn't lose any of my points in doing so...

[Quyzbuk]

1 hour ago, Lord_Battal said:

 First, let's look at one of their first missteps - having Shipwrecked be standalone.  Yeah, I know, it's technically compatible with Reign of Giants, and you can switch between SW and RoG worlds, but...it's such a waste of potential.  Imagine having a sea battle against a Dragonfly, or pummeling the Bearger from afar with a Boat Cannon, or discovering a Glommer Statue on a lonely Autumnal island.  They had so much cool stuff they could have added, but instead we just got Shipwrecked by itself.  Which is still good, just not as amazing as it could have been.

No no no NO NO NO. Have you ever heard of ambiance? If you want something to be different, you don't add more of the same. If you want to see them that badly, use your c_spawn command.

1 hour ago, Lord_Battal said:

Next, and probably most controversial, we have the skins.  In my opinion, there are so many things wrong with skins it's impossible to put them in one thread.  Basically, you stand around for hours waiting for a present to fall out of the sky, then you hope that present has the specific thing you want, and then you go sell/trade it for a ridiculous price because nobody in their right mind would ever want to waste that much time.  It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator.  And not a good one. 

Skins should not have ANY value whatsoever. 

If you're playing for digital possessions and not for the actual game, it's not the game with the problems, it's you. Skins only have as much value as the person who wants the skin is willing to give for it. It's something that keeps the art team occupied while the mechanical stuff is being hammered out for the other things in the pipeline. Any market that there was for the skins before they were put on the community market (many of which are flatlining on price right now as more people get them) existed solely because the players wanted it to exist, not because it had some kind of right to do so. If you have a problem with that, you take it up with the players doing it, not the company who is a little too busy focusing on adding more content and value to their game(s).

[Serph]

Regarding Shipwrecked, i'm no game developer so i can't really opinate on this. SW is also being coodelevoped with Capy which might likely has something to do with this choice.

About skins... no matter how "optional filler content" they are supposed to be, they have huge impact even if the market wasn't there.

The good side: Cosmetic Thrash alone can keep games alive. It brings new players and it keeps old players. it creates a market that interacts with other markets, indirectly making the game more well known. It's something so easy to implement and yet everybody loves it. I'm pretty sure TF2 would not be here today if it didn't turn into a "hat simulator".

The bad side: Skins become the center of the game and Devs abuse that. Focus suddendly shifts from balance and development to making new and therefore more expensive clothes that only serve to inflate the market. The market itself sets a imaginary price in every item, which indirectly brainwashes the community into greedyness and elitism. And the worst part, nobody is complaining because they're too busy trying to get that next gift.

It's easy to notice how much impact skins had when you realize that DST (supposed to be released by 2015) has no set date to be finished and yet everybody only talks about how "THE TRADE INN HAS TO CHANGE!!!" or "THE NEW LOYAL SKINS ARE COMING OMG SO MUCH HYPE!!!" I'm a tf2 player, i see this all the time. Compare it to shipwrecked, who gets much more interesting and varied topics.

With all that said, is i Klei stumbling? I'd say not. At least not yet. It will depend alot on how Klei handle skins and SW. If they focus on finishing the games first and listen to fan criticism it'll be fine. If they take the Valve approach, focusing more in skins and making money then it won't be fine. Klei already lied about not making skins marketable so i can't blame anyone for having second thoughts i guess. Either way, it's not the end of the world.

[Yammy]

I don't know why it's being viewed as negative that Klei cares about adding other features into the game before finishing it. If anything, it shows that the communities opinions and ideas are being well respected.  SW is in early access, I'm sure that it becoming standalone could change too. 

I try not to form any opinions of something until it is fully released, and with all good things, sometimes it takes patience.

[PanAzej]

Shipwrecked has a different "feel" to it, I can see why it was supposed to be a standalone game. 

About skins, I kinda agree, they could be just a little customization thingy. No values, everybody has the same library of skins and just picks their favourite.

But the way they are now is fine, too. It's weird for me that people complain so much about microtransactions. What would be so bad, even if we had a shop with skins and stuff like that? Would it make the game worse? How?

Ya just jelly, cause I'm wearing a burning unusual tam'o'shanter on my head, that's where te problem lies!

[Sporb]

2 hours ago, Lord_Battal said:

Basically, you stand around for hours waiting for a present to fall out of the sky, then you hope that present has the specific thing you want, and then you go sell/trade it for a ridiculous price because nobody in their right mind would ever want to waste that much time.  It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator.  And not a good one. 

Wow, really? I haven't been following the development of DST very closely, so I had no idea that was how skins worked. That's incredibly... ironic, to put it nicely.

Does anyone happen to remember why Don't Starve doesn't have achievements? If I remember correctly, it's because, early in the development of DS, Klei added some sort of system to reward the player for accomplishing certain things, like surviving X days. But, that didn't work because it caused players to focus too much on those goals and not on the rest of the game, making for a much less enjoyable experience. IIRC, Klei decided to omit achievements whenever possible and to focus on making the gameplay naturally rewarding, rather than tacking on artificial rewards.

There was like a whole interview or something about it, and to my disappointment, I can't seem to find it.

It sounds like they've now gone back on that and decided that the game isn't rewarding enough on its own. And it sounds like this is, as expected, warping the way people play the game and making it less fun. What the heck?

Of course, all my info here on the current state of DST is at least 2nd hand, sooo... take that last paragraph with at least a grain of salt. I could be very wrong.

[Serph]

54 minutes ago, PanAzej said:

Ya just jelly, cause I'm wearing a burning unusual tam'o'shanter on my head, that's where te problem lies!

That's what i always say! These F2P lumberjack shirt users are ruining Don't Starve! /ssss

 

Spoiler

 

[Mueck]

49 minutes ago, Sporb said:

Does anyone happen to remember why Don't Starve doesn't have achievements? If I remember correctly, it's because, early in the development of DS, Klei added some sort of system to reward the player for accomplishing certain things, like surviving X days. But, that didn't work because it caused players to focus too much on those goals and not on the rest of the game, making for a much less enjoyable experience. IIRC, Klei decided to omit achievements whenever possible and to focus on making the gameplay naturally rewarding, rather than tacking on artificial rewards.

You are reading my mind.

49 minutes ago, Sporb said:

There was like a whole interview or something about it, and to my disappointment, I can't seem to find it.

I found it. It was reposted at the bottom of this thread:

I read this article not a long time ago because I am actually just writing a paper about the influence of extrinsic and intrinsic motivation on game design at University. It made me think about skins too.

In my opinion skins are extrinsic rewards, the way they are currently implemented.The problem is, as described in the article, that extrinsic rewards can sometimes override the intrinsic motivation (fun, curiosity, etc.) a person had to play the game in the first place.

Player behaviours that are signs of this problems are mentioned in the text and I have personally noticed a lot of changes to DST's play style since skins were added to the game; on online servers, but also in my own play style.

Optimizing the play style just to get the rewards

You are not rewared for playing the game. You are actually rewarded just for keeping the game running as long as possible and standing next to a science machine. I've have been idling in god mode and I am not proud of it, but it is for now the most efficient way to get skins.

Avoiding risks to avoid loss

You can easily make the game easier via customization and mods to avoid challenges and dangers. Of course there is no way to loose acquired skins yet.

Stopping to play once you are not able to obtain any rewards anymore

You can exactly get four drops a week, by now almost everyone knows. I rarely ever get the third drop and I have never gotten a fourth, yet my motivation to play DST sinks immensely each week once I have obtained the first two quick drops. I rather play SW that has fresh "game" content, not just "cosmetic" content.

When it's Tuesday or Wednesday and my boyfriend suggests to play together in the evening, I sometimes catch myself thinking: Better do it on Friday when the system has reset. I am not happy about it, but this is how the current state of DST makes me play.

 

I don't think that extrinsic rewards in game design can only have negative effects and I still do trust Klei to make considerate game design decisions, yet I can't help thinking that the skins system in particular is quite far off Don't Starve's roots.

 

[jeffhartley3925]

20 hours ago, Lord_Battal said:

Basically, you stand around for hours waiting for a present to fall out of the sky, then you hope that present has the specific thing you want, and then you go sell/trade it for a ridiculous price because nobody in their right mind would ever want to waste that much time.  It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator.  And not a good one.

I don't care about skins. I don't open the gifts. See how easy it is to avoid the grind?

[MenaAthena]

12 minutes ago, jeffhartley3925 said:

I don't care about skins. I don't open the gifts. See how easy it is to avoid the grind?

You don't even have to not open the gifts; just play the game like you normally would, and if you do get a present it's a nice little surprise. Still no grinding.

[leonseye]

18 hours ago, Sporb said:

Wow, really? I haven't been following the development of DST very closely, so I had no idea that was how skins worked. That's incredibly... ironic, to put it nicely.

Does anyone happen to remember why Don't Starve doesn't have achievements? If I remember correctly, it's because, early in the development of DS, Klei added some sort of system to reward the player for accomplishing certain things, like surviving X days. But, that didn't work because it caused players to focus too much on those goals and not on the rest of the game, making for a much less enjoyable experience. IIRC, Klei decided to omit achievements whenever possible and to focus on making the gameplay naturally rewarding, rather than tacking on artificial rewards.

There was like a whole interview or something about it, and to my disappointment, I can't seem to find it.

It sounds like they've now gone back on that and decided that the game isn't rewarding enough on its own. And it sounds like this is, as expected, warping the way people play the game and making it less fun. What the heck?

Of course, all my info here on the current state of DST is at least 2nd hand, sooo... take that last paragraph with at least a grain of salt. I could be very wrong.

...that's not why skins exist at all, though.

Klei created skins because players expressed a desire to look somewhat unique amongst the community when joining servers, as there can be multiple Willows, Wilsons, Wigfrids, etc running around all looking exactly the same.

It was just supposed to be a fun way to distinguish different players from one another; it has absolutely nothing to do w/ "achievements" or any kind of "milestone" to be reached.  If you die and start anew and keep laying, you STILL receive skins; you get them just for playing the game, period.

Personally, I do find the gameplay naturally rewarding and improving w/ each iteration, which is the most important part.

PS) Knee-jerk reactions to a situation you know literally nothing about besides having read ONE person's opinion are probably not the most rational.  Just sayin'.

21 hours ago, Lord_Battal said:

then you go sell/trade it for a ridiculous price because nobody in their right mind would ever want to waste that much time.  It takes a well-made survival game and turns it into a Grinding Simulator.  And not a good one. 

Please do describe what a "ridiculous price" is?  Is that anything above $0.00?  

Because you still DO get the skins for free, but if you don't want to "waste that much time" playing a video game that you presumably enjoyed w/out skins, you have the OPTION to buy the specific skins you do want from the Marketplace.  And the VAST majority of those are under 50 cents apiece.

[The Letter W]

isn't the value of the skins set by the community, not klei? i mean to me they're just a little extra flair or something to laugh at, they have no value other than that. while i'm not so big on the trading, buying, and selling i can see why they implemented it. for one, people would probably still be asking for it, and another, what's wrong with trading something you don't want for something you do? some people just toss money away, it's their choice really.

as for shipwrecked, i kind of like how it's a different world? i remember to me the appeal to adventure mode was the 'themed' worlds of sorts, each one required some know how of different mechanics. shipwrecked features a new set of things while retaining the core feel of the old, and i think it works well. it'd be interesting to see if we'll get more themed dlcs like it in the future.

[leonseye]

17 minutes ago, The Letter W said:

isn't the value of the skins set by the community, not klei? i mean to me they're just a little extra flair or something to laugh at, they have no value other than that. while i'm not so big on the trading, buying, and selling i can see why they implemented it. for one, people would probably still be asking for it, and another, what's wrong with trading something you don't want for something you do? some people just toss money away, it's their choice really.

as for shipwrecked, i kind of like how it's a different world? i remember to me the appeal to adventure mode was the 'themed' worlds of sorts, each one required some know how of different mechanics. shipwrecked features a new set of things while retaining the core feel of the old, and i think it works well. it'd be interesting to see if we'll get more themed dlcs like it in the future.

Oh, the value is definitely set by the community.  I see the value set by Klei as "free", w/ the community deciding for themselves "well, it's worth 8 cents for a pair of classy high heels to me".

I think, for skins to have remained the way you see them, they would have had to never have been tradeable, but once that function was added and prices became truly outrageous ($65 for a Wigfrid head skin??), I think that something like the Marketplace became necessary to curb scammers and exploitation of the uninformed.

The situation seems a lot better now, imo, as people who don't want the skins they do have can use the Trade Inn or just sell them outright for a tiny bit of change, and those actually SEEKING skins have a LOT more variety at their fingertips than they did before skins went live on the Marketplace and most are extremely cheap (that Wigfrid head skin averages around 6 bucks now, for comparison).

And of course, those who still don't want to bother w/ any of that still don't have to.

[Mobbstar]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

It was just supposed to be a fun way to distinguish different players from one another; it has absolutely nothing to do w/ "achievements" or any kind of "milestone" to be reached.

It's hard to believe that. Skin drops are very compelling and the probably most discussed topic in the DST general discussion.

The problem begins with giving the individiual pieces different ranks of different fanciness. This fact alone makes the player naturally crave for "rare" and "better" items. There's already a goal.

Next up, skin drops are tradable. This would work well if there would be roughly equal interest in all types of items. But because some items are "greater" than others, somebody can skip a lot of the collecting by getting and trading a rare item. On the other side, somebody has to spend a lot of items for getting a particular item, but barely any for a different one, even if both are equally attractive to that person. Now there's a goal and a quick way. (Wasn't there some science thing about three steps to ... something about achievements?)

Most recently, Klei tried to mitigate the situation by allowing skin drops on the Steam Market. There, items usually peak as soon as they come out and then rapidly drop to a low value, low enough for most people caring about a specific item to purchase it. I am not even going to pretend that I'd understand the exact effects of this decision, as it is a kind of stock exchange and accordingly complicated.

I still think the skin system is skinner-box-like (pun intended), but it could be worse. Are we really discussing skin drops AGAIN?!

---

I seriously hope Klei cuts TtA down to free more resources for new groundbreaking games. Surely, the name "Don't Starve" doesn't sell better than a good new game in new style.

[leonseye]

Well, to be fair, players had asked for ways to distinguish themselves from others pretty much from the moment DST entered Early Access, and the moment that Klei announced potentially introducing skins, the topic has been extremely popular.

They aren't going away; they are a feature and many enjoy playing dress-up and personalizing their beloved DS characters.

In other words, we are going to talk about them.

As for the rest of the topic, I don't play Shipwrecked as I'm more interested in the multiplayer DS experience currently, so I replied to the portion of the topic that I do have an interest and some small experience in.

[emerphish]

Hello cruel world!

I'm not around here very often anymore both because of real life thtuff/stoughf (stuff)and having overplayed the game, but this thread caught my eye and I felt like giving my two cents.

Skins:

RnG translating into real life profit or in game gain is NOT GOOD. In the case of DST skins, it is the former of the two. CoD Advanced Warfare died hard because it had a system of supply drops that rolled for variants of weapons. This was very fun at first, but after about a month it became apparent that there was a clear division between people that had put in the grind for hours and gotten the good variants and the second class players that hadn't. Then, it became optional to buy supply drops and circumvent the grinding. It was about as bad as it sounds, maybe a little worse. 

How is this relevant? Well, supply drops and weapon variants started off benign, but quickly killed and defamed the game that was "going to save call of duty". Skins undoubtedly started off benign, but I see a dangerous potential in them. As has been stated, much more articulately, above, skins add a "goal" where there previously was none. And like supply drops, the method of acquisition is time. This means that people who have put in time have something of value that others don't, which is bad. It adds a goal to a game with only THE goal of everything: survive. I enjoyed messing around when I first got this game, playing with different mechanics and having a good time deciding what I wanted to do. When I was done, I stopped playing. 

This scenario would be different with skins.

Oh, I have other things to do, I'll call it quits for the night on DS. *RnG hissing from the monitior* "come back, there are ssskinss to unlock*. Thus, I was artificially influenced to keep playing the game.

To those of you who have said "but why do you care if they are purely cosmetic":

This mindset that you describe is the best mindset to come at the issue with, as it becomes a nonissue. However, many people, myself included, do not and cannot live with this mindset. People are wired differently. You are a triangle, I am a square. I can't fit into the triangular hole that you live your life in. I need to be in a square shaped hole. The same goes for everyone else who shares the same mindset that I do. Unfortunately, it is not a universal solution to the issue of skins.a

 

Shipwrecked:

 

 I haven't played shipwrecked so I can't comment in length here. 

However, I do have an opinion on this. Capy games made shipwrecked. Thus it may not mesh very well with either the vanilla or RoG Don't Starve experience. Letting it be its own thing was a decision that I was very vocally angry with. The community was pretty much split down the middle, so we got shipwrecked being attached, instead of integrated or separated. I feel like Klei played their hand the best way that it could have been played here.

 

Conclusion: Keli isn't stumbling, but they are starting to. They can catch themselves and keep on jogging the path of being cool and awesome game developers, or they can fall the the dark side. It all depends on where they go with this whole skins thing. It could ruin DST (which was promised never to exist, ever) and I would not feel the loss, but I think it needs to be treated as dangerous and quarantined to DST until we know if it will pan out okay in solo Don't Starve.

[leonseye]

Out of curiosity, do you actually play DST now that skins are a thing?  It just doesn't sound like you do from the tone of your post.  Not that it matters; just wondering.

Either way, I personally feel it's a little far-fetched to say that the introduction of skins made the entire goal of the game change to chasing drops.  They don't do anything to change the actual gameplay of DST, where the goal is very much still to survive and conquer the weird wild world.

As for personal goals set by players, I don't think it's really up to Klei to decide that for us, nor would I honestly want them to.  If you want to collect all the skins, I don't see that as a problem just because that might take a long time naturally.  There are still avenues outside of the marketplace to obtain them.  You can still trade w/ friends and also utilize the Trade Inn.

Maybe I just don't see this "skin elitist" side of the DST community outside of the forums, because I tend to stick to playing this game w/ my friends who all love playing w/ cross-dressing Wolfgang or WX in a bathrobe.  They are excited when they get a present, but if we're out away from camp in mid-winter waiting on Deerclops to spawn, they don't go running back to the camp to open them.  Survival is still their ultimate goal in the game, they just enjoy looking good while they do it.  Who doesn't?

[emerphish]

I do not play DST because skins are a thing, you are correct.

What I meant was that there is a goal where there previously was none set by any other than the player. That will irk some people, myself included. Others will not be irked. 

[leonseye]

13 minutes ago, emerphish said:

I do not play DST because skins are a thing, you are correct.

What I meant was that there is a goal where there previously was none set by any other than the player. That will irk some people, myself included. Others will not be irked. 

Does it irk you IRL that you don't own all of the clothes as well?  <.<

[TheProtagonist]

I have to be honest, I do buy the skins on the market, like I mean it was because I had spare cash after buying the game for friends, and it still has never affected the game for me, I play Wes, that is literally the only way to be "unique" on a server. The game is still, survive, make friends in the process (or enemies depending on the play style). I guess I can end it off by saying, wearing the fancy skins makes you feel nice. (Wes GoH is the cheapest)

Now about SW....never played it, but I'd think it would play like Don't Starve:Wind Waker. SW and ROG seem like different games on paper, sure the idea sounds cool to have the together, but...I'd find it annoying to survive winter and giant waves in the ocean at the same time.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

I agree that Shipwrecked was a **** up. We need boats in the core game. End of story.