Opinions on Wolfgang's Refresh?

[Dollmaker]

So what are your thoughts about it? 

Im kinda... okay?, losing the speed buff is quite a big hit, but, maintaining the Mighty Form is a lot easier, mid combat would be a problem, but otherwise, with some regular exercising you can stay in Mighty Form for really long periods of time, the minigame is pretty simple and easy (thank god).

The Dumbbells are pretty useless as weapons, for starters they consume A LOT of durability when used as such, and if you want a ranged weapon youre better off with a Boomerang or even an Ice Staff, for Exercising the Stone version is really weak, but the Gold one is decent, the Gem one is pretty good, and pretty cheap to make, same goes for the Gym. 

Regarding the Gym, once you kill at least one boss, you can upgrade it to the max, which allows you to fill the Mighty Meter to the max relatively fast (In case you wonder, Boss Statues are the heaviest objects you can put) 

Theres also the fact that his damage multiples no longer decays linearly and is fixed for each form, so you will always do 2X dmg for the duration of the Mighty Form, this is good. 

So yeah, i think the refresh is decent, not very exiting though, but its fine. 

Edit: So its been confirmed that he doesnt suffer Speed penalty for using Piggy Back and Marble Armor, if im honest, thats a fair trade off for losing the Speed buff, since you can have extra slots or extra protection with no penalty. 

 

If you want a more in-depth regarding the refresh, here's a Thread made by Hornete:

 

[Aquaticbutter7]

My opinion is simple: a character rework's main goal should be to make you want to play as the character more than before. Every character rework so far has accomplished this to me. And as a pre-rework Wolfgang hater, this ain't it. It's basically the same boring number bonuses as before (except for the speed), but the way you obtain them is much more time consuming and tedious. Still has no meainingful perk or downside related to his fear, arguably his most notable personality trait aside from his stupidity. The only actually new things he can do are either in relation to tedious stat system or something that you're barely gonna notice in the 5% of your gameplay where it is actually useful.

[Dollmaker]

3 minutes ago, Aquaticbutter7 said:

My opinion is simple: a character rework's main goal should be to make you want to play as the character more than before. Every character rework so far has accomplished this to me. And as a pre-rework Wolfgang hater, this ain't it. It's basically the same boring number bonuses as before (except for the speed), but the way you obtain them is much more time consuming and tedious. Still has no meainingful perk or downside related to his fear, arguably his most notable personality trait aside from his stupidity. The only actually new things he can do are either in relation to tedious stat system or something that you're barely gonna notice in the 5% of your gameplay where it is actually useful.

Wasnt his Fear downside increased or something? i think he loses Sanity faster than before, so theres that.

As for other drawbacks, like mentioned already, it takes some time to max out the MM, but it does last a decent amount of time, specially if youre high on hunger, the other drawback, is that achieving Mighty Form in the middle of a fight would be extremely hard unlike before.

So he has new downsides on top of the old one being stronger than before.

I wasnt really expecting a mayor gameplay change from him tbh, considering he was one of most simple characters next to WX-78, and the entire character is centered around being strong.

But who knows, they might do some tweaks down the line. 

[Duck986]

The only thing I don't like for now is the fast loss of Mightiness (33% per day if your hunger is 50-74), which is the same for Mighty, Normal and Wimpy Wolfgang.

I'd rather lower it for non-buffed forms (let's say by 33% for normal and 50% for wimpy).

Everything else is fine.

[Aquaticbutter7]

5 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

Wasnt his Fear downside increased or something? i think he loses Sanity faster than before, so theres that.

As for other drawbacks, like mentioned already, it takes some time to max out the MM, but it does last a decent amount of time, specially if youre high on hunger, the other drawback, is that achieving Mighty Form in the middle of a fight would be extremely hard unlike before.

So he has new downsides on top of the old one being stronger than before.

I wasnt really expecting a mayor gameplay change from him tbh, considering he was one of most simple characters next to WX-78, and the entire character is centered around being strong.

But who knows, they might do some tweaks down the line. 

I don't think you entirely understood what I meant. As for the fear downside, the change they opted for is far less interesting than it could've been, as they just increased some numbers, so the downside amounts to "you have to collect a few more pieces of cactus/mushrooms to get sanity up now". My issue is that this does not feel as meaningful as it could. But I understand that they wouldn't do anything big there, since that was obviously not the focus of this rework.

My point is that this isn't a rework, but a very convoluted nerf. I would be fine without major gameplay changes, some of my favorite reworks were Wigfrid and Winona. But here, we have Wolfgang having the same upsides as before but a time consuming way to get them. They just piled up some tiny Walter-style perks on top of it so it doesn't get called an outright nerf.

[dip935]

Completely my personal opinion, but I don't like the look of it. I have no opinion about the game balance.

[Mangrove]

Heartbreaking nerfs to my favorite character

[Gi-Go]

Amazing rework, I really thought they were gonna blow it but ended up satisfied (almost). 

The only problem is they removed speed boost which has nothing to do with rework and is completely uncalled for.

And the only issue is dumbbells doing a joke of a damage. They aren't from rubber, so I would prefer them dealing 100, 150 and 300 damage respectively. 

[Theukon-dos]

I'm not entirely sold on the workout mechanic yet, I'll have to play in a survival setting before I know for sure how to feel. But Other than that, I am rather satisfied.

 

And please, for the love of all that is holy, don't bring back that stupid speedboost.

[Vixen Doe]

having fun with it so far. not a big wolfgang person but this feels more engaging to me than 'eat food be mighty'

[GelatinousCube]

Love it! Needs minor tweaks but overall it makes him far more interesting and balanced.

11 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

 

And please, for the love of all that is holy, don't bring back that stupid speedboost.

This. So much this.

[Gi-Go]

10 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Love it! Needs minor tweaks but overall it makes him far more interesting and balanced.

This. So much this.

Imagine loving to waste time on walking. What's wrong with you people? 

[hhh2]

very bad, it makes him so unfun to play. having to idle or do minigames for a weaker version of a previously balanced perk is awful. I'm going to be seething all day about this, then never play him ever again.

There is almost nothing that can be salvaged from this "rework"

to think a rework was wasted like this is saddening. If the update will go public the least klei could do is add back the speedboost.

[Thalkas]

I'm kinda thinking about his gym machine, for me it isn't enough efficiently. I'm looking at dumbbells which are so great to lift your form anywhere in world. I feel like training on this should giving "more" than dumbbell for ex. slower might meter drain or slower charge by using dumbbells.

[Cassielu]

Much better than I expected, I feel that the rate of decline in mightness may need to be adjusted and some extra privileges are needed to make people more willing to put in the effort to maintain mighty form.

but DON'T bring back that stupid speed boost ok?

[GelatinousCube]

11 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Imagine loving to waste time on walking. What's wrong with you people? 

No other character hits like a truck and moves like a Lamborghini. He should never have even had the speed boost to begin with. 

Also he's meant to be a bit of a wimp but made bosses feel like a joke, nonsensical.

I think removing the speed boost is probably the best part of the update 

[Scrimbles]

Pretty good, I just wish for two things

1) Drain hunger when lifting weights, the higher the hunger, the faster the drain + gains.

2) Make throwing weights increase mightiness, so you can juggle weights at the opponent to keep mightiness up, since throwing weights doesnt seem to be worth it right now, aside from killing birds.

 

Glad they removed the speedboost, it was an accident and it gave the strongest fighter the strongest stat in the game, ontop of the damage bonus, for practically no effort (pressing m2 on your stack of easily gotten food).

[Gi-Go]

26 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

No other character hits like a truck and moves like a Lamborghini. He should never have even had the speed boost to begin with. 

Also he's meant to be a bit of a wimp but made bosses feel like a joke, nonsensical.

I think removing the speed boost is probably the best part of the update 

So yeah, another one of "I never liked Wolfgang and now I'm happy Wolfgang mains are unhappy" forums were a mistake. 

[Mike23Ua]

49 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Imagine loving to waste time on walking. What's wrong with you people? 

We have already told you.. the characters WITH Speed Boosts are the ones that have seriously negative downsides for being hit- (Wormwood, Walter, Wes) or Require creating a special turf (Wurt, Webber)

Alternatively: Anyone can use Cobblestone Roads.

Now: Without the above- To get a “Speed Boost” requires one of TWO possible things: 1- You get a Walrus Tusk and you create a Walking Cane.. 2- You get Walrus tusk and you create a Beefalo Brush.

Are you noticing the thing they have in common yet? You get a Speed Boost from a Walrus Tusk which can’t be obtained until Winter.

Wolfgangs Wimpy form however.. could get a few more negative downsides (Wes levels) And be given the Speed Boost.

The character genuinely has to feel like the speed boost is there to help keep them out of Danger..

And with Pre-Rework Wolfgang he has a permanent Walking cane AND the best damage of every character in the game:

Now tell me how you or Anyone can think that isn’t OP & broken?

Wolfgang being broken in DS Solo was fine, because it was a SINGLE PLAYER Game..

But Wolfgang in DST was just able to out perform everyone else by simply eating meatballs.

These nerfs are justified..

But the downsides Wimpy form was given just seems like they made him MORE Annoying for a casual player to pick up and start enjoying him.

If Wimpy has to have so many Negatives: It should also have a usefulness.

Like Wes.

[DaZoul]

I actually like it so far. Yet to try it out in survival, but in creative it seems pretty good. I have the same compliments to say as the ones already said, but here's this: Old Wolfgang was, at least for me, very boring. Sure, he might've been powerful like a bulldozer, with the speed of a formula 1 car, but the gameplay just wasn't very exciting. I didn't even feel accomplished when I killed a boss, because, well, it was too easy. again, imma try him in survival, but new Wolfgang's mechanic simply has more depth. And I don't care about the speed boost, get a walking cane like everybody else

[Milordo]

So far....kinda good.

Again, i'm just happy many of Toro's ideas will come to the game and that's already is a plus for me. Now Wolfgang will not be such boring character as before but more fun and enjoyable. All being said the values, like in how much time he loose the mightiness, some numbers in the dumbells, ecc... Should need some tunements. Pretty good rework 

[DaZoul]

Forgor to add, just from looking at it in creative, the might drain might (hehe) be a little too fast. Jus a bit

[Psychomaniac]

The Workout idea, seem fun at first, but after a while it'll get tedious as you have to workout constantly to stay in shape, Luckily Klei gave us a consumable dumbbell to stay mighty. which mean you have 1 more thing to prepare: ton of Potato food, and ton of dumbbell. Gym then can serve as a decoration for you base.

I had high hope it gonna be a Woodie level kind of Refresh, but kinda disappointed.

[H Phantom H]

The idea of reworking Wolfgang's mechanic is very interesting ... But it needs to be redone almost from scratch. Small buffs are good, but where is the real benefit to the team? Wolfgang must now swing before going into battle, but still needs a lot of food. Now only damage remains from the uberform. No more speed and 300 HP. What does it mean? Instead of a full-fledged rework, we got a nerf forcing us to quit playing for Wolfgang. Revork should breathe a second life into the character, and not destroy an already well-functioning game system.

[Notecja]

I think what Wolfgang rework misses, is a versality. In my opinion he is now ever more "just smash enemies and move heavy things", and without speed boost much less "explore and gather" (unless we count piggyback buff for mighty Wolfgang). In current state he is still not very interesting character - but I am not sure how to help him for real. I am just going to repeat ideas, his gym could also allow to choose between stronger or faster Wolfgang + activites like mining/chopping could help keep his mightiness.