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Opinions on Wolfgang's Refresh?


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Unlike every other rework which has expanded what the characters can do and made them more generalized, this has removed the one general perk Wolfgang had and made him even more of a "boss fights only" character. I don't know why they would nerf him at all when he wasn't even particularly good compared to reworked characters.

But, on the bright side, the dumbbells are absolutely hilarious. My friend showed me this video and I think it's amazing.

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12 minutes ago, Milordo said:

What.... what is that sound effect? Before he goes mighty Wolfgang. Is he.... farting? Wtf.

I think he's supposed to be grunting since he's working out, but his instrument choice is a little silly sounding here.

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4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

We have already told you.. the characters WITH Speed Boosts are the ones that have seriously negative downsides for being hit- (Wormwood, Walter, Wes) or Require creating a special turf (Wurt, Webber)

Alternatively: Anyone can use Cobblestone Roads.

Now: Without the above- To get a “Speed Boost” requires one of TWO possible things: 1- You get a Walrus Tusk and you create a Walking Cane.. 2- You get Walrus tusk and you create a Beefalo Brush.

Are you noticing the thing they have in common yet? You get a Speed Boost from a Walrus Tusk which can’t be obtained until Winter.

Wolfgangs Wimpy form however.. could get a few more negative downsides (Wes levels) And be given the Speed Boost.

The character genuinely has to feel like the speed boost is there to help keep them out of Danger..

And with Pre-Rework Wolfgang he has a permanent Walking cane AND the best damage of every character in the game:

Now tell me how you or Anyone can think that isn’t OP & broken?

Wolfgang being broken in DS Solo was fine, because it was a SINGLE PLAYER Game..

But Wolfgang in DST was just able to out perform everyone else by simply eating meatballs.

These nerfs are justified..

But the downsides Wimpy form was given just seems like they made him MORE Annoying for a casual player to pick up and start enjoying him.

If Wimpy has to have so many Negatives: It should also have a usefulness.

Like Wes.

Oh for God's sake. Speed boost on top of double damage is op to you? Wolfgang's downside is the same as Wilson's - lack of upsides. He is unplayable without speed boost as the only thing he has left is his damage and what the hell is that even used for when you can have extra damage as a fraction of your power by playing Wendy/Wanda. If you think that's OP then you are just bad at the game, because this downside is far more significant than whatever nonsense easy to counter downsides other characters have like oooh uhhh can't heal from food. 

Speed boost is exactly what Wolfgang is about. He runs fast and hits hard. Wilson on steroids if you will. Can't appreciate well designed simplicity? No problem, go play dozen + characters with more in depth perks and leave this one to someone who likes him.  

Wolfgang is irrelevant ever since Wanda was added, and all you do is ask for him to get even more irrelevant and have 1 perk and 1 perk only. 

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7 hours ago, Aquaticbutter7 said:

My opinion is simple: a character rework's main goal should be to make you want to play as the character more than before. Every character rework so far has accomplished this to me. And as a pre-rework Wolfgang hater, this ain't it. It's basically the same boring number bonuses as before (except for the speed), but the way you obtain them is much more time consuming and tedious. Still has no meainingful perk or downside related to his fear, arguably his most notable personality trait aside from his stupidity. The only actually new things he can do are either in relation to tedious stat system or something that you're barely gonna notice in the 5% of your gameplay where it is actually useful.

i share the exact opinion except i actually was eh to wolfgang before and could see how people could like him for boss rushing ect but now that was just crapped upon

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3 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Oh for God's sake. Speed boost on top of double damage is op to you? Wolfgang's downside is the same as Wilson's - lack of upsides. He is unplayable without speed boost as the only thing he has left is his damage and what the hell is that even used for when you can have extra damage as a fraction of your power by playing Wendy/Wanda. If you think that's OP then you are just bad at the game, because this downside is far more significant than whatever nonsense easy to counter downsides other characters have like oooh uhhh can't heal from food. 

Speed boost is exactly what Wolfgang is about. He runs fast and hits hard. Wilson on steroids if you will. Can't appreciate well designed simplicity? No problem, go play dozen + characters with more in depth perks and leave this one to someone who likes him.  

Wolfgang is irrelevant ever since Wanda was added, and all you do is ask for him to get even more irrelevant and have 1 perk and 1 perk only. 

i agree, wolf wasn't overpowered, especially since DST's power creep recently. Just wait until the changes get reversed or people forget he exists and start moaning about the next OP character. Either way it's pretty much set in stone this is what wolf is going to be like for a while.

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9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Oh for God's sake. Speed boost on top of double damage is op to you? Wolfgang's downside is the same as Wilson's - lack of upsides. He is unplayable without speed boost as the only thing he has left is his damage and what the hell is that even used for when you can have extra damage as a fraction of your power by playing Wendy/Wanda. If you think that's OP then you are just bad at the game, because this downside is far more significant than whatever nonsense easy to counter downsides other characters have like oooh uhhh can't heal from food. 

this is an overexageration.

How can be unplayable without the speed boost when wilson is more than playable?

and, even with the nerfs, you cant compare wolfgang with wanda or wendy. He still has way better early game, keeping mightiness with the golden dumbbell is easy and cheap so you get x2 damage easy meanwhile wendy needs to micromanage her sister and wanda needs to rush alarming clock (without taking in count the amount of downsides that wanda has)

this doesnt means im ok with the speed nerf, as i said in other topics they should add more utility to compensate it but neither means that some of you arent overreacting for a beta, give useful feedback and klei will tune wolfgang for better

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I have to say, in my limited time playing as him I see no issues in the workout mechanic (besides the questionably lacking efficiency the standard dumbbell has). The dumbbells themselves are only meant to keep Wolfgang topped off, while the big machine is to get him to mighty form. The only issue I have is whether or not he will be fun to play. Yeah there are minigames and fun little workout routines you can do, but by and large this is all just to get a numbers advantage. They could be the most busted damage multipliers, or health increases, or whatever. Ultimately though, stat boosts are very boring upsides/downsides. While I don't necessarily agree that mighty Wolfgang should get a speed boost, I can agree that it was probably the most fun thing about him to me at least.

To me, he is overall not bad but he is just missing that "fun" perk. I don't know what it could be, though.

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32 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this is an overexageration.

How can be unplayable without the speed boost when wilson is more than playable?

and, even with the nerfs, you cant compare wolfgang with wanda or wendy. He still has way better early game, keeping mightiness with the golden dumbbell is easy and cheap so you get x2 damage easy meanwhile wendy needs to micromanage her sister and wanda needs to rush alarming clock (without taking in count the amount of downsides that wanda has)

this doesnt means im ok with the speed nerf, as i said in other topics they should add more utility to compensate it but neither means that some of you arent overreacting for a beta, give useful feedback and klei will tune wolfgang for better

Unplayable as in I can't even imagine what anyone would pick him for. Same to Wilson. 

Way better in what? Taking dragonfly out in the first 5 days? 

Wendy needs to micromanage? This girl can take down regular enemies with zero effort or skill. The best bee queen killer (the only boss that actually matters and isn't killed for lolz). 

Wanda has downsides? Imagine getting hit with double range and eye frames. Can easily do ruins and both of the bosses mentioned above In first autumn. And that's not even her main perk. Her main perk is being able to travel (through worlds even) anywhere in an instant. Can also revive forever, can be revived cheap (works as a sanity station by suicide), amazing at fuelweaver, amazing at lunar champion and has free heals. 

But yeah, let's disable Wolfgang, clearly the OP one.

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12 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Wendy needs to micromanage?

She does actually, gotta keep track of Abigail's HP to use the potions in time to heal her.

Abigail can die surprisingly fast to a boss.

13 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Wanda has downsides?

Well for starters her combat style is a glass cannon, and second, she cant heal with absolutely nothing but her clocks, which means taking up more space in your inventory to carry multiple ones to heal dmg.

Wanda is a character that requires skill to use, since mistakes are worse on her.

16 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

But yeah, let's disable Wolfgang

He does more dmg now though, like mentioned already, his dmg no longer decays and is now fixed for each form, so you will always do 2X dmg in his mighty form.

I also heard some people say he can use Marble armor and Piggy Bag without Speed penalty during Mighty Form, but idk if thats true.

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1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Oh for God's sake. Speed boost on top of double damage is op to you? Wolfgang's downside is the same as Wilson's - lack of upsides. He is unplayable without speed boost as the only thing he has left is his damage and what the hell is that even used for when you can have extra damage as a fraction of your power by playing Wendy/Wanda. If you think that's OP then you are just bad at the game, because this downside is far more significant than whatever nonsense easy to counter downsides other characters have like oooh uhhh can't heal from food. 

Speed boost is exactly what Wolfgang is about. He runs fast and hits hard. Wilson on steroids if you will. Can't appreciate well designed simplicity? No problem, go play dozen + characters with more in depth perks and leave this one to someone who likes him.  

Wolfgang is irrelevant ever since Wanda was added, and all you do is ask for him to get even more irrelevant and have 1 perk and 1 perk only. 

What are you even on about? Lack of upsides? He does double goddamn damage when mighty,  DOUBLE damage. He had a crazy speed boost on top of that. How the hell is that a lack of upsides. 

LOL can't heal from food is a big one buddy, you're seriously saying that a "lack of upsides except DOUBLE DAMAGE" is a worse downside than never being able to heal from food? Delusional.

He's been given a handful of other perks actually, you may personally think they're not good but he has.

If he's irrelevant since Wanda was added already why are you even getting so riled up about his rework? What does it even matter? Go play Wanda.

Also not every one just picks which character to play based purely on who is hands down the most effective and powerful in the first place. No character is irrelevant. Plenty of people play as the characters who are considered lower tier for a multitude of reasons; aesthetics, lore, examination quotes and personality, role play etc etc.

So many people keep constantly bringing up Wanda in these Wolfgang threads and how every other character is now meaningless or irrelevant because of her. I'm honestly starting to wish Klei never made her at this point because she's apparently the only character the 'hardcore' or 'elite' players use.

55 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

(the only boss that actually matters and isn't killed for lolz). 

Oh I'm sorry did you not want a furnace, mushlights,enlightened crown, bone armor, houndius, krampus sack or eyebrella? Yeah bundling wrap is the dopest of them all but each and every one of the others is amazing as well. Only boss that matters..

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

this doesnt means im ok with the speed nerf, as i said in other topics they should add more utility to compensate it but neither means that some of you arent overreacting for a beta, give useful feedback and klei will tune wolfgang for better

Only problem is instead of thinking/suggesting of other ways to buff him or make him more interesting most are just losing it over the speed buff and begging for it to come back.

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1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

 

Wanda has downsides? Imagine getting hit with double range and eye frames. Can easily do ruins and both of the bosses mentioned above In first autumn. And that's not even her main perk. Her main perk is being able to travel (through worlds even) anywhere in an instant. Can also revive forever, can be revived cheap (works as a sanity station by suicide), amazing at fuelweaver, amazing at lunar champion and has free heals. 

 

I may think you don't understand full Wanda or you're gonna tell me Wanda..... is OP? 

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16 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

What are you even on about? Lack of upsides? He does double goddamn damage when mighty,  DOUBLE damage. He had a crazy speed boost on top of that. How the hell is that a lack of upsides. 

LOL can't heal from food is a big one buddy, you're seriously saying that a "lack of upsides except DOUBLE DAMAGE" is a worse downside than never being able to heal from food? Delusional.

He's been given a handful of other perks actually, you may personally think they're not good but he has.

If he's irrelevant since Wanda was added already why are you even getting so riled up about his rework? What does it even matter? Go play Wanda.

Also not every one just picks which character to play based purely on who is hands down the most effective and powerful in the first place. No character is irrelevant. Plenty of people play as the characters who are considered lower tier for a multitude of reasons; aesthetics, lore, examination quotes and personality, role play etc etc.

So many people keep constantly bringing up Wanda in these Wolfgang threads and how every other character is now meaningless or irrelevant because of her. I'm honestly starting to wish Klei never made her at this point because she's apparently the only character the 'hardcore' or 'elite' players use.

Oh I'm sorry did you not want a furnace, mushlights,enlightened crown, bone armor, houndius, krampus sack or eyebrella? Yeah bundling wrap is the dopest of them all but each and every one of the others is amazing as well. Only boss that matters..

Only problem is instead of thinking/suggesting of other ways to buff him or make him more interesting most are just losing it over the speed buff and begging for it to come back.

Bruh, Wanda has double damage as a casual hobby on top of the best weapon in the game and infinite possibilities via teleportation. How is Wolfgang's supposed to compete with her without speedboost. Who would play him? People who can't deal with Wanda's "downside"? A Wanda replacement for absolute greens? 

Not having other perks than DoUbLe DaMaGe is indeed worse than not being able to heal from food. Healing salves, poop thing, batbat, jellybeans, sleeping. Whatever you prefer to make it irrelevant. You get speedboost, farm bonuses, free living longs and whatever other perks this guy has. You gain nothing from picking Wolfgang aside from being able to deal more damage for a couple days it takes Wanda to get her hands on alarm clock. 

The "other perks" being carrying heavy objects faster and having a crappy range weapon? Those sure are some heavy meta changes indeed. Can't wait to pick Wolfgang for the sake of those and not you know.... Walter.

Why I'm riled up? Because I want 2 good characters and a choice, instead of a clearly superior one and a pathetic replacement for those who have no spools. More importantly, why you insist on nerfing already limping character? I thought rework was made for people who like or want to like a charcater, and since you clearly aren't the first option (as asking for nerf of your favorite character is a bizzare concept) I'm supposed to assume you want Wolfgang to get nerfed to actually start playing him? But that can't be true either because "oh I really would love to play Wolfgang but he walks fast and that make him boring. Now if he would walk slower he would instantly become my main". Doesn't make any sence. So what is your goal if not to troll Wolfgang mains then?

Imagine saying character is good enough after rework despite being absolutely pointless, because people would at least pick him for vanity. 

The Wanda is the best charcater by far and is hands down OP. But I'm amazed you'd rather have her removed than allow Wolfgang to have a single freaking perk that she dosen't have. I just don't get your priorities or goals. Why do you even care what others say? 

As for boss drops you are absolutely correct. I do not want any of the junk you mentioned. Fuelweaver drop is also nice but I consider that a game win and thus don't really care. Bundles and jellybeans are the good stuff. 

The only problem of this rework is the speedboost removal. The gym is infinitely better as a speedboost gain than touching dead fish in terms of game design. But instead you want people to focus on comming up with a bunch of random crap to make another "interesting" messy pile of pointless mini perks. 

23 minutes ago, Milordo said:

I may think you don't understand full Wanda or you're gonna tell me Wanda..... is OP? 

I've done a boss rush where I took out bee queen, ancient guardian, dragonfly, shadow pieces, deerclops and klaus before the first spring and you are about to tell me Wanda has downsides and is not overshadowing Wolfgang? X Doubt. 

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5 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I'm supposed to assume you want Wolfgang to get nerfed to actually start playing him?

I want a rework Like we're getting because He was super boring before. The gym looks dope and the mini game looks fun. You can personalise it with whatever heavy objects (waxed veggies, specific boss statues etc) you want. He's also a great bird killer now like Walter, has an awesome marble armor perk making him into an absolute tank, I'll  use him to transport anything heavy (tree nuts, statues etc) instead of using woby and more. He has flavor now and to me personally a reason to actually play him outside of crab king pissed me off and I just want an easy no hassle kill on him now.

9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Bruh, Wanda has double damage as a casual hobby on top of the best weapon in the game and infinite possibilities via teleportation

I think she's problematic too tbh. Every one and their pet dog main her now because she's so crazy good and can not only port around the map at will but can also hit like  a truck. At the very least she's a bit of a glass canon and requires some skill/practise though Whereas wolf is/was a pure beast/tank.

11 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Why I'm riled up? Because I want 2 good characters and a choice, instead of a clearly superior one and a pathetic replacement for those who have no spools.

This is just sad to me, you have a ton of other options all of which bring a lot to the table. This isn't a competitive or PvP game so there is absolutely no need to always be playing the 'best' character. I person play as almost everyone from time to time except for Wolf, wicker, Max and Willow. This rework is going to change that and Wolf is  going to enter my roster of played characters again.

14 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

As for boss drops you are absolutely correct. I do not want any of the junk you mentioned. Fuelweaver drop is also nice but I consider that a game win and thus don't really care. Bundles and jellybeans are the good stuff. 

We evidently play this game completely differently so no point continuing discussing this aspect. Killing Fuelweaver to me is just another ruins reset and isn't my end goal/win condition. All of the items I listed are huge game changers in my eyes and massively improve your day to day struggle in the constant. I don't rush a world, get a kill on each boss then start again, I like creating elaborate farms and bases and slowly turning the game from survival into sandbox. Then creating my own challenges and discovering new ways of doing things.

20 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

The only problem of this rework is the speedboost removal. The gym is infinitely better as a speedboost gain than touching dead fish in terms of game design. But instead you want people to focus on comming up with a bunch of random crap to make another "interesting" messy pile of pointless mini perks. 

In short yes. His double damage and speed boost were not only boring as literally the only defining parts of his character but were also too potent a combo together. I want him to be interesting as well as more balanced.

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33 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

 

is useless to argue with a biased person

you are just mad because thry nerfed your fav character and, instead of giving useful feedback and arguements,  you are saying non sense to justify that wolfgang shouldn't be nerfed

by your logic wolgang should be even more nerfed since if wendy and wanda are that op and easy to play, wolfgang is just gamebreaker since didn't has any downdide compare to these

 

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23 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

This is just sad to me, you have a ton of other options all of which bring a lot to the table. This isn't a competitive or PvP game so there is absolutely no need to always be playing the 'best' character. I person play as almost everyone from time to time except for Wolf, wicker, Max and Willow. This rework is going to change that and Wolf is  going to enter my roster of played characters again.

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable. Never plays Wolfgang, is gonna play him just to do a mini game inside of a game, and yet finds the need to tell opinion on the nerf. Speed boost or no speed boost that shouldn't even concern you, if you came for the gym that exists either way! I don't understand you people, why you bothered to even write soemhting. 

And also, I never said I play combat characters exclusively. I play a lot of them and pick whichever one fits into my plains. And the current Wolfgang will not fit into any of them because when I want more damage I pick Wanda. Simple as that. 

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after reading the post by hornet, playing him and watching a couple videos i came to the conclusion that what wolfgang's forms need is versatility, i think instead of flat out removing the speed boost, it should be added to his wimpy form instead, to give players a reason to use wimpy while still retaining the downsides of being weaker in combat. 

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28 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is useless to argue with a biased person

you are just mad because thry nerfed your fav character and, instead of giving useful feedback and arguements,  you are saying non sense to justify that wolfgang shouldn't be nerfed

by your logic wolgang should be even more nerfed since if wendy and wanda are that op and easy to play, wolfgang is just gamebreaker since didn't has any downdide compare to these

 

I'm not biased I'm objective and know what I'm talking about. Wolfgang is not my favorite charcater he isn't even in top 3. You haven't provided a single point aside from mentioning that whining about wendy made us loose glass cannon, but how is that even relevant to Wolfgang? What are we gonna loose due to him getting his speed back? "Whining" isn't always bad, woodie was a joke before people complained about his rework. 

Just because Wolfgang is slightly easier than Wanda dosen't make him gamebreaking dude. 

3 minutes ago, Bluepugjr said:

after reading the post by hornet, playing him and watching a couple videos i came to the conclusion that what wolfgang's forms need is versatility, i think instead of flat out removing the speed boost, it should be added to his wimpy form instead, to give players a reason to use wimpy while still retaining the downsides of being weaker in combat. 

The second best option. Huge thumbs up. Of course I would prefer to be rewarded for deliberately going out of my way and wasting time on the gym instead, and would like to actually utilize the mini perk of marble armor and piggyback instead of discarding both for magiluminesence, but this option is also good. I'll be pleased with either. 

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16 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I'm not biased I'm objective and know what I'm talking about. Wolfgang is not my favorite charcater he isn't even in top 3. You haven't provided a single point aside from mentioning that whining about wendy made us loose glass cannon, but how is that even relevant to Wolfgang? What are we gonna loose due to him getting his speed back? "Whining" isn't always bad, woodie was a joke before people complained about his rework. 

Just because Wolfgang is slightly easier than Wanda dosen't make him gamebreaking dude. 

The second best option. Huge thumbs up. Of course I would prefer to be rewarded for deliberately going out of my way and wasting time on the gym instead, and would like to actually utilize the mini perk of marble armor and piggyback instead of discarding both for magiluminesence, but this option is also good. I'll be pleased with either. 

one thing is giving feedback about how to improve wolf and another is just saying that there isnt any downside with other characters

wasnt the point improving wolf or just nerf the others? 

i didnt said that wolf is game breaker. i said that by your logic, wolfgang being "slightly easier" (and you say you arent biased) makes him gamebreaker in comparation

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42 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable. Never plays Wolfgang, is gonna play him just to do a mini game inside of a game, and yet finds the need to tell opinion on the nerf. Speed boost or no speed boost that shouldn't even concern you, if you came for the gym that exists either way! I don't understand you people, why you bothered to even write soemhting. 

And also, I never said I play combat characters exclusively. I play a lot of them and pick whichever one fits into my plains. And the current Wolfgang will not fit into any of them because when I want more damage I pick Wanda. Simple as that. 

Yes Wanda is doing bigger DMG than Wolfgang with just one weapon and with high dose of risk with her age. Also can heal herself with clocks instead food with better health factor.

Looking at game we can tell almost every character is stronger than each other. Of course Wes is the strongest. :lol: Wolfgang, Wicker and WX were the most pickable characters through all years because they made literally everything better than rest. With refreshes and with new characters, "meta" is finally changed. No more "OP" characters and mostly all character is uniqe in own way. As always every refresh has own supporters and opponents but arguments with "ugh he's trash now because XYZ character is better because can kill X boss faster.". AWESOME. Wolfgang through 6-7 years was must-have to speedruns and easly farming bosses but who cares...

If you really want speedboost in Mighty form then I want better meter on Wigfrid, more HP on Abigail, army of Bernies, self-aiming balloons, non-aggresive merms from Wurt builded houses, compost's jellybeans for Wormwood and maybe six more incarnations for Woodie. Ah and I really want such a long Wilson's beard to turn him into Cousin Itt because why not?

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