Opinions on Wolfgang's Refresh?

[Toros]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

 

You can't expect me to take you seriously after you admitted you don't know how to play Wanda. Like I mentioned before, current Wolfgang is a Wanda replacement for absolute greens (noobs). And I don't want this character to be a low skill replacement, I want him to be the best combat character cuz that's his theme. 

Wolfgang remains the best general purpose combat character because while Wigfrid is superior at tanking, and Wanda is superior at kiting, Wolfgang is great at both, and especially now that he can have consistent 2x damage and kite at normal speed in marble armor, he's good in every fight and flexible in his strategy.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

17 hours ago, Thalkas said:

I'm kinda thinking about his gym machine, for me it isn't enough efficiently. I'm looking at dumbbells which are so great to lift your form anywhere in world. I feel like training on this should giving "more" than dumbbell for ex. slower might meter drain or slower charge by using dumbbells.

What do you mean? I don't remember the numbers, so correct me if needed, but it takes like 6 seconds to get from max normal form to max mighty form. And the mighty form stays for what, 6 minutes? so it's 6 seconds for 6 minutes, 20 seconds from 0 to 100%.

4 hours ago, Dextops said:

second is to let him mine and chop faster and have it add to mightyness

Mine and chopp faster? No, leave this perk for woodie and maxwell.
Add it to mightiness? Hell yeah.
This is very good suggestion, it would solve the boring early game that you just have to stand there and lift the stone dumbell.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

What do you mean? I don't remember the numbers, so correct me if needed, but it takes like 6 seconds to get from max normal form to max mighty form. And the mighty form stays for what, 6 minutes? so it's 6 seconds for 6 minutes, 20 seconds from 0 to 100%.

totally. I put in the gym the eye of terror statue plus klaus statue and i was like half meter when the hounds started roaring, i went to the gym (i was at base) and got might in few seconds, 4 or something like that

and that can be done everytime you leave base and just use few uses from the golden or the gembell to raise it before the boss fight. Much more convinient and fun that the previous wolfgang

sure, we lost his speed but i prefer to reach a spot few seconds later than having to grind and manage food non stop. And solves the problem with the public servers

 

[Gi-Go]

3 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Yeah I don't play him ANYMORE because he's boring and cheap.

I've already explained my position on the speed multiple times, stop telling people what does or doesn't concern them. The game isn't built for you alone. No interest in inactering with you further. 

It litteraly (litteraly) dosen't concern you.

You quit Wolfgang because he moved fast, and you are now picking him back up because he moves slower?

No. You quit him cuz he was boring and now you pick him up because gym seems fun to you. 

You probably shouldn't interact at all if you are arguing with no motive other than to argue. 

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure, we lost his speed but i prefer to reach a spot few seconds later than having to grind and manage food non stop. And solves the problem with the public servers

 

Why can't we just have both? Who is gonna be upset if Wolfgang gonna have more than 1 perk? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Why can't we just have both? Who is gonna be upset if Wolfgang gonna have more than 1 perk?

because i prefer the strong gatherer idea than speed which can be used in another character instead of becoming an stale perk. Fits more thr character

and believe me, i missed it while playing the rework but my feedback will be in favour of teamwork and strongman perks rather  than raw speed and even less now that keeping mighty in midgame is a joke

[Mike23Ua]

I play every single character in the entire game and pretty often because I get BORED of playing the same one all the time- While yes Wendy is my favorite due to her inspection quotes, instrument sounds and overall gameplay- It doesn’t mean I don’t have valid & Legit concerns for all the others I play (there’s literally a random character choice button… use it.)

So my problems with Wolfgang aren’t anymore invalid then yours or anyone else’s, it does however infuriate me when people claim Wendy is a stand around being idol simulator when those same people probably barely PLAY Wendy- They are unaware that in order to BE An Idol Simulator you need to do quests in a specific biome and look for lost stuff, they are unaware that some characters so called OP Perks like Wanda’s clocks are ridiculously expensive and require crafting at a higher tier crafting station: Those people only care about how Wolfgang DIDNT need to do any of that, and they’re upset that NOW He does..

I would actually be okay if they gave him higher damage, or even some very late end game craftable speed item: But to rush end game bosses on day 1.. wasn’t Okay.

Klei has fixed that now & I highly doubt they’re going to just revert these changes.

Wolfgangs character was always about being the Mightiest and this rework captures that feeling well.

There are small things to nitpick- like Might not lasting long enough, No cool team based perks, but other then that: They made the character meant to be Mighty more Mighty..

Just like when they reworked Wendy they made the character meant to blend small groups of mobs up into a poltergeist Blender even more capable of doing that.

But SOME of those Blender powers require resources and are locked behind higher tier crafting stations to use.. and yet Wendy is the “stand around idol simulator”

I MAIN Wendy, but I PLAY as every character in the entire game.. Wes is actually my 4th in top favorites (with Wurt and Wormwood are the ones above him)

Now that Wolfgang’s Mightiness is tied behind progression: (doing stuff, gathering resources, higher tier crafting stations) I wouldn’t care if he got 3x damage as long as to reach that point feels like I’ve earned it.

[Gi-Go]

12 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because i prefer the strong gatherer idea than speed which can be used in another character instead of becoming an stale perk. Fits more thr character

and believe me, i missed it while playing the rework but my feedback will be in favour of teamwork and strongman perks rather  than raw speed and even less now that keeping mighty in midgame is a joke

Wait, strong gatherer? As in, better mining and chopping power? Don't we have like... 4 charcaters who are good at that already? 

And I don't think you need to worry about speed becoming stale. Everyone likes speed. One third of the cast has speed nowdays and noone of them are gonna be upset at Wolfgang getting share of the pie.

Also, Wormwood and wes never had speed in the first place while Wolfgang did. It's almost like they stole one of Wolfgang's perks. I think he deserves it more.

I never liked teamwork perks. They feels so cheap. As in "hello, I'm a wormwood and i feed people and give them living logs thats my life". Highly efficient team sucks all the joy out of a game for me. I prefer playing in a team as a solo type character or a flat out bad one (i main wes) and using skill instead of perks to help my teammates. Unless meaby we are doing some crazy whacky event like moon champ speedrun. 

[goblinball]

4 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's almost like they stole one of Wolfgang's perks.

You heard it right here folks!!!! Wolfgang invented speed!!!! Before Wolfgang, nothing ever had a speed or velocity, and everything which does have a speed is clearly stealing from Wolfgang!!!! Yes!! Wolfgang, the “Mighty and Strong” character )notice how neither of these words have any correlation with speed) can be the only speedy character!!

 
All jokes aside, it’s important to actually analyze other characters speed perks before making the blind statement of “they have speed why no Wolfgang???” Imagine if, for example, WX’s overcharge had no speed boost; it’d never be used because the speed is one of overcharge’s main selling points, and it’s much harder to obtain than Wolfgang’s mighty form, before and after rework. On top of this, it goes along with WX’s thematic abilities of not having any unique gimmicks but rather being able to improve his stats, which includes speed. Compare this to Wolfgang’s thematic abilities of being rewarded with pure strength for properly sustaining a stat, and being punished with weakness for failing to meet said stat’s demands (oh and he’s afraid of the dark too). Speed doesn’t fit as neatly in Wolfgang’s axiomatic blueprints as it does in WX’s, as strength ≠ speed. As previously stated, WX’s overdrive is much harder and more costly to obtain, even with a wickerbottom, than Wolfgang’s mightiness. Despite this, overcharge’s utility crumbles once you remove its speed boost, while Wolfgang’s mightiness is still very powerful. I’ve stated this in previous posts so I won’t go too in depth here, but 2x damage is very valuable, especially for the price you get it with Wolfgang. 2x damage can stand on its own, it doesn’t need a speed boost and adding one is basically giving 2 major benefits for the price of 1, and said 1 benefit is already extremely cheap.

 
I could also go into how Wanda’s backstep watch fits thematically into her ideals of always having a backup plan or a way out and being greatly punished for not, however this post is already long and I think I’ve proven my point. The removal of Wolfgang’s speed boost is a good thing; his mightiness stands strong without it, and it never thematically fit with his kit. You cannot point out other character’s speed perks as proof that Wolfgang should have one, as they are completely different characters with different abilities or play styles. This is honestly one of the dumbest points I’ve seen the forums use when trying to defend Wolfgang’s speed, I hope this is the last time I see it mentioned.

[Just-guy]

As someone that has played Wolfgang only once, I like it so far but having to stay immobile to build mightiness can become annoying, especially when your beginning dumbbells are too slow.

[Gi-Go]

30 minutes ago, goblinball said:

You heard it right here folks!!!! Wolfgang invented speed!!!! Before Wolfgang, nothing ever had a speed or velocity, and everything which does have a speed is clearly stealing from Wolfgang!!!! Yes!! Wolfgang, the “Mighty and Strong” character )notice how neither of these words have any correlation with speed) can be the only speedy character!!

 
All jokes aside, it’s important to actually analyze other characters speed perks before making the blind statement of “they have speed why no Wolfgang???” Imagine if, for example, WX’s overcharge had no speed boost; it’d never be used because the speed is one of overcharge’s main selling points, and it’s much harder to obtain than Wolfgang’s mighty form, before and after rework. On top of this, it goes along with WX’s thematic abilities of not having any unique gimmicks but rather being able to improve his stats, which includes speed. Compare this to Wolfgang’s thematic abilities of being rewarded with pure strength for properly sustaining a stat, and being punished with weakness for failing to meet said stat’s demands (oh and he’s afraid of the dark too). Speed doesn’t fit as neatly in Wolfgang’s axiomatic blueprints as it does in WX’s, as strength ≠ speed. As previously stated, WX’s overdrive is much harder and more costly to obtain, even with a wickerbottom, than Wolfgang’s mightiness. Despite this, overcharge’s utility crumbles once you remove its speed boost, while Wolfgang’s mightiness is still very powerful. I’ve stated this in previous posts so I won’t go too in depth here, but 2x damage is very valuable, especially for the price you get it with Wolfgang. 2x damage can stand on its own, it doesn’t need a speed boost and adding one is basically giving 2 major benefits for the price of 1, and said 1 benefit is already extremely cheap.

 
I could also go into how Wanda’s backstep watch fits thematically into her ideals of always having a backup plan or a way out and being greatly punished for not, however this post is already long and I think I’ve proven my point. The removal of Wolfgang’s speed boost is a good thing; his mightiness stands strong without it, and it never thematically fit with his kit. You cannot point out other character’s speed perks as proof that Wolfgang should have one, as they are completely different characters with different abilities or play styles. This is honestly one of the dumbest points I’ve seen the forums use when trying to defend Wolfgang’s speed, I hope this is the last time I see it mentioned.

Coincidentally, you made the dumbest point I've seen in favor of speed removal. Dosen't fit his kit? You might as well say it colides with his spirit aura and it would make the same amount of sence. 

Wes speed boost fits in his kit apperanetly. Wormwood speed boost fits apperanetly. Any perk ever added fits to any charcater ever getting rework but not Wolfgang. Yeah sure dude, really selling point. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Just-guy said:

As someone that has played Wolfgang only once, I like it so far but having to stay immobile to build mightiness can become annoying, especially when your beginning dumbbells are too slow.

I can’t say I agree with this, the eating animation to go Mighty, the Transformation stages between Wimpy, Normal, Mighty- they all required Wolf to stand completely still to perform.

Its the same concept with lifting the dumbells but they could use some fine tuning to be a little faster maybe.
Then again: The entire point is to get a better Dumbell to become Mighty faster right?

[minespatch]

18 hours ago, Cheggf said:

But, on the bright side, the dumbbells are absolutely hilarious. My friend showed me this video and I think it's amazin

That does sound like farting

[Gi-Go]

22 hours ago, Toros said:

Wolfgang remains the best general purpose combat character because while Wigfrid is superior at tanking, and Wanda is superior at kiting, Wolfgang is great at both, and especially now that he can have consistent 2x damage and kite at normal speed in marble armor, he's good in every fight and flexible in his strategy.

Haha... no. Wanda is better by far. In fact, let's review every fight that matters:

Late game Hounds:
Wolfgang and Wanda both can just hold F, but I prefer to kite as long as im able to get hits in between. Wanda is a lot better at kiting due to range, and she can tank hounds long enough to kill them, meaning Wolfgang's extra tankiness plays no part here, as they both take equal damage and survive.

Enemies that kite (pigs and knights):
Wanda is a lot better due to double range. Free hits.

Shadows:
Fat ones can't even reach Wanda, tall ones give a reliable 2 hits in between every teleportation.

Enemies that run away (walruses, elephants, bunnymen, rabbits):
Again, extra range makes a superior fighter as Wanda can actually land hits.

Swarming enemies: (monkeys, spiders, bees)
Wanda is better yet again by being able to kill them before they even get close to her, thus she saves herself the effort to step back.

Bishops:
Wanda has i-frames.

Tree guards:
What do you know, bigger range means less kiting and more hitting.

Spider queen:
You put a burning rope under this one and stunlock her. Dosen't really matter who you use.

Fruitfly king and malbatros:
Who cares.

Deerclops:
Wanda has i-frames.

Bearger:
Who cares.

Goose:
This boss has a broken ai so he is a bit unpredictable. I actually did die once to him as Wanda. That dosen't make Wolfgang better it just means I made a bunch of dumb decisions. From getting greedy, to continuing the fight without a heal.

Ant lion:
As far as I remember she is easily tanked by both. I rarely fight her tho.

Ancient guardian:
You can cheese, or you can use Wanda's range to cancel his dash.

Klaus:
Wanda can stunlock him with a hit-stepback-hit movement. This makes her weakness to elements redundant.

Dragonfly:
Incredibly easy to no hit if you practice a couple times. In fact, I kill her before ruins rushing by deconstructing my heal watch to get the i-frames one, while using 3 other time pieces for the weapon. thus i can't even heal. Dosen't matter. i-frames, 1 less hit on larvae, easy kiting of minions. Am I having high expectations from this playerbase?

Bee queen:
For Wolfgang and Wanda alike I use the flute method and I prefer to do this fight after getting ruins gear for safety. More range means you get more hits in, and with crowns Wanda is more than capable of sustaining injury.
So far I haven't found a single fight where Wolfgang is superior but let's keep looking.

Crabking:
Range is good as you dont have to move your boat so much, but it doesn't really matter who you use.
Do people still kill crab king with ice staff method? I haven't been keeping up with the strats.
What I do is just dodge bubbles with white oar and replace boats when they are at breaking point. Then I just collect boards and recycle.

Toadstool:
Getting hit by toadstool is impossble.

Fuelweaver:
This is probably where Wanda's superiority shines the most. I-frame watch is used to uncage yourself while range is used for bulling. This guy is almost a tree guard to Wanda.

Moon staff event:
Dosen't matter who you pick. Easy event if you make walls with a gap.

Moon storm event:
The one and only part where Wolfgang is superior. Except not really, because the proper way to do this event is to hire a couple bunnymen and give them armor. You can be Wes at that point for all the difference it makes.

And lastly celestial champ:
I think you can stunlock him as Wanda? No idea, this boss is a pushover anyways and by that point you probably have bone armor so don't tell me you still managed to find a way to get hit while playing Wanda.

So in conclusion... Wolfgang has 0 fights he is best at. Best general combat charcater you say? Wanda isn't even a combat charcater. Her main upside is fast travel. And not some pity little speedboost you claim to be OP. I'm talking teleportation with as many uses as your imagination can allow.

So basically, Wolfgang dedicated his whole life to being the strongest, and then got his ass utterly kicked by someone who uses fights as a casual hobby.

 

EDIT: I can't belive I forgot shadow chess, another golden example of Wanda's superiority. I-frames make both rook and bishop a joke. And here is a big brain move as a cherry on top: using teleportation watch you can carry marble head to statues in an instant. Using 2 of them, you can summon just 1 shadow on day 21 and then get the others and start the fight on day 23. Make the shadow chase you, locate the other marble head, set a return point on it with one watch and use gem on the other one to carry marble to statues. Then come back to where the marble was as to not despawn shadow. Wait for cool down, reassemble, repeat for the third piece. Go back to statues with your shadowy friend to activate the other 2. This is a huge deal if you are into boss rush. Good luck killing both bee queen and dragonfly in autumn, while also having enough time to clear ruins and do shadows before klaus spawns as Wolfgang. 

 

 

And now a meme:

Wolfgang - Sonic

Wanda - Knuckles.

 

[pedregales]

I love and hate the re-work. In general this is what most people wanted (me included, sadly), but it still feels incomplete:

Spoiler

 

• Overall, Wolfgang remains a boring character to play, being only slightly more interesting than Wilson. And has absolutely no strategy around him, before it was spamming food, now it is spamming working out. The difference is you could get food from normal gameplay, while working out makes you go out of normal gameplay (and literally makes you play a "different mini-game"). He still needs food though, otherwise maintaining Mighty form is just not feasible. And Wimpy form is even worse than before.
• Like most character-items added, they cannot be used by other characters or help them. This makes Wolfgang's gym take up space wherever it is placed, and it will only be used seldomly by 1 character. And his dumbbells, take up item slots and are almost required to keep Mighty when far from the gym.
  • The gym is "fine". As in, is overall easy to use and, when set-up correctly, very effective. However, it is not too obvious that you can unload the "potato sacks" for heavier items, and most importantly it is stationary (sure, you could make one near every important boss, no biggie; but it is still unreliable for random fights and hound attacks). Another thing, does the 2 potato sacks that come with it have a use? I have not found one yet.
  • The dumbbells are far too inefficient. Before you could just chuck food and you got Mighty (by filling hunger) but also healed some health and sanity. But now you have to use the dumbbells to "gain" (better said, maintain) mightiness, while losing game-time (you cannot even eat, which "makes sense", but still). At least they could give some sanity just to give a sense that we are not just wasting time playing the character. In more detail:
    • The stone dumbbell is just not worth it: takes far too much time to get any mightiness, and it's durability does not translate well to mightiness. It's only use is to be thrown at birds (and even then!).
    • Gold dumbbell is almost decent, being able to sustain Mighty form.
    • The gembell is obviously the best, and is just good.
• Wimpy form is as pointless as ever (technically more since they added the weakness to cold and heat, and reduced his damage resistance). Is understandable that this form is meant to be a penalty. But should it be only a penalty though? Couldn't it have a niche? I personally think it should have a bit more. A speed buff when Wimpy is a popular suggestion, but maybe also make him unthreatening to small animals? As in, rabbits and birds do not run from Wolfgang while Wimpy.
• The speed nerf is also such a big downside... That I don't care about. It wasn't even intentional, but a side-effect of scaling up or down the models. I think it is for the best that it was removed.

"With that much criticism, how can you say you love it?" That is the thing. I love the overall concept of it. It just fits the character perfectly and makes far more sense than just stuff your mouth with food. They also make some items slightly more useful (statues, I am talking about the statues).

 

 

I have a fair share of suggestions on how to make Wolfgang "less boring". But ultimately, I think it falls short... but will share it regardless:

Spoiler

 

Big change suggestions

• Mightiness affects hunger and not the other way around. Higher mightiness means a faster hunger rate. This in turn ties into Wimpy form getting a niche, in which Wimpy form could be used when you are not fighting, but instead exploring or base building, or some other activity that does not require muscles in the near future.
• Sanity affects mightiness. The lower your sanity, the faster mightiness decreases. This works well with his fear of darkness attribute, as it becomes a true "weakness". Numbers might need to be tweaked though, otherwise nightmare farming will just not be feasible at all when going from Mighty to Wimpy in just a few minutes.
• Wolfgang can craft sacks. This sacks are essentially "portable" chests but only for crops (slightly reduce spoil time). Can be used by all characters. Honestly, I think this is what most people thought on first inspection of the teaser.
• Wimpy form is unthreatening to small animals.

Minor change suggestions

• Wimpy form gets a tiny speed buff. This way Wimpy consolidates an "explorer" niche and recovers some versatility to Wolfgang. It not much, but is honest work!
• Regular Wolfgang does more damage. He is the strongman, so I think is understandable if Wolfgang does more damage than the rest of characters in his Regular form. I think a good amount is 15% more damage.
• All dumbbells should be much better:
  • Stone dumbbell should give 1 mightiness per use per second, regardless of form. This would still be pretty weak and only make it usable for maintaining mightiness. Takes 100 seconds and a dumbell to get from 0 to 100 mightiness.
  • Gold dumbbell should give 2 mightiness per use per second, regardless of form. Making it the same as the current gembell. Takes 50 seconds and 25 uses of a gold dumbbell to go from 0 to 100 mightiness 
  • Gembell should give 1 mightiness per use per second, and every 5 seconds of continuous use gives 1 more point of mightiness per use (reaching a maximum of 4 mightiness per use) regardless of form. Takes 20 seconds and 10 uses of a gembell to go from 0 to 100 mightiness. Of course, recipe should be tweaked to be more expensive though: 1 extra purple gem, 2 living logs instead of twigs, and 6 nightmare fuel instead of cut stones. This makes it a gym on the go.
• Working out should give sanity:
  • Stone dumbbell should give 10 sanity/min.
  • Gold dumbbell should give 25 sanity/min.
  • Gembell should give -60 sanity/min. A decrease rate since it is a shadow item.
  • Gym should restore 60 sanity/min.
• Doing certain activities should reduce the rate at which mightiness decreases by a tiny amount. Things like mining, chopping, hammering, tilling, and even combat, for example

NOTE: the gym would still be "better" than a gembbell as it is a few seconds more efficient with giant statues (<20 seconds from 0 to 100 mightiness), and it would give sanity instead of taking it (up for debate how much this is a plus, but oh well). Plus is cheaper, and doesn't lose durability.

Random dreams

• Mighty Wolfgang can throw some heavy objects to deal massive damage in an area. Yeah, just like the dumbbells, but think BIG! Not all heavy objects can be thrown though, and once thrown they break into smaller items or nothing (stone statues drop rocks, marble statues drop marble, giant crops drop crops, crystal structures from Antlion just break, etc.).
• Something that decreases mightiness to be able to swap between wimpy, regular and mighty forms. EDIT: powdercakes! Make powdercakes take away 25-100 points of mightiness on consumption!

 

 

[Thalkas]

8 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

What do you mean? I don't remember the numbers, so correct me if needed, but it takes like 6 seconds to get from max normal form to max mighty form. And the mighty form stays for what, 6 minutes? so it's 6 seconds for 6 minutes, 20 seconds from 0 to 100%.

Mine and chopp faster? No, leave this perk for woodie and maxwell.
Add it to mightiness? Hell yeah.
This is very good suggestion, it would solve the boring early game that you just have to stand there and lift the stone dumbell.

I mean that gembell is quite strong, I feel like you can prebuild it and you don't need to use gym anymore but maybe it is just a bad feeling. I like @pedregales idea with sanity aura. Adding penatly sanity aura to gembells should be just small tweak with their really good charging mighty meter.

[Coward]

I am crying and shaking 

[MarkBlocos]

no speed no good. 
I dont get removing the possibility for rushes and speedruns that people use him for just because he is "easy to play".

[Dextops]

12 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

Mine and chopp faster? No, leave this perk for woodie and maxwell.
Add it to mightiness? Hell yeah.
This is very good suggestion, it would solve the boring early game that you just have to stand there and lift the stone dumbell.

added the first bit so he'd have any reason to be mighty outside of combat but yeah it should be left to woodie maxwell and wurt

[Mysterious box]

While I don't think he needs his speed boost returned I kinda get where some of the hate is coming from when you get down to it he did get some nice bonuses but aside from the marble suit the rest of the new perks are minor time savers which may be frustrating to some when you consider Webber and Wanda only need a small amount of days(depending on world  gen) to match or surpass him in terms of damage output which is his primary perk. That being said his current state is probably the best compromise. 

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

While I don't think he needs his speed boost returned I kinda get where some of the hate is coming from when you get down to it he did get some nice bonuses but aside from the marble suit the rest of the new perks are minor time savers which may be frustrating to some when you consider Webber and Wanda only need a small amount of days(depending on world  gen) to match or surpass him in terms of damage output which is his primary perk. That being said his current state is probably the best compromise. 

To be fair, noone "needs" anything, Wilson is *good enough* at any task. Having perks still feels good tho. 

Also, I can't imagine why would anyone use marble suit when you can have speed amulet and crowns instead. Too fancy? Use helmet. 80% armor not enough? Use crowns. 

Current Wolfgang state can only be described as *sad*. 

[Orty97]

I don't get why so many people are like "HE NEED THE SPEED REMOVED ASAP". First of all, take a chill pill.
Then think about what wolfgang is good at now. Fighting. That's it. And to even get him to be good at fighting we should just watch an animation unfold, or play Dead by Daylight skill-checks? Really? That's what you all call engaging gameplay huh? 

And what's the deal if he has the speed? Does him running a bit faster  and getting those berries first anger you? WTF.
Just take WX then and just ZOOM accross the map lol.

[Cloakingsumo198]

If Wolfgang can't have his speed, make him feel more like before don't have mighty only be attributed to his lifting weights make everything help to sustain it and the weights as a way to maintain it when you have nothing to do aka at night.  So have food take part in how fast it drains but make every action wolf does either add to his mighty meter or slow down it's regression. 

His strength should apply to everything he does chopping and mining while mighty could take less uses but breaks down that tool faster, it helps with feeling faster without overshadowing the actual gathers who don't use resources to get resources and without giving his innate speed boost back

This could also be vice versa when wimpy he takes way longer to do any task and the tools don't break as easy. Of course in the technical terms this shouldn't affect the effectiveness of the tools just how long it would take each form to complete a task. And it would be normal speed in his base form.

Fighting/chopping/mining should help increase his mighty meter he is working hard and getting swole in the progress.

Hell make it so fighting while insane it could also help cause he is facing his fears or something. Being strong or courageous isn't the lack of fear but having the STRENGTH to overcome it.

Make his wimpy form really encapsulate it's name make him a real WIMP. Weaker than everybody else, slower, more in danger just anything at all make him weaker than Wes even. He doesn't need to have some niche to this form make it so the Wolfgang player doesn't want to be anywhere close to this weak form. 

Wolfgang used to be a time savor at the cost of resources now he just eats resources and time to even come close to his original glory.

His gym equipment is cool and all but he relies on it too much from what I see and not all strength is built in the gym go see any physical labor worker and they'll generally be strong.

I don't know how complicated it would be to code these things but it would help Wolfgang feel more fluid in the world instead of just switching "gotta eat" to "gotta lift". I see this as getting stale fast for those who are gonna be trying Wolfgang, and forced change to those who were used to the freedom. I feel he'll just be more boring without any real boost to popularity in being picked. Aside from those who still recognize him as at least our oh so sexi stronk Mann.

I dunno but the Wolfgang experience used to be staying constantly active, and having higher maintenance.

[proxiehunter]

Tried out Wolfgang in the Beta as someone who doesn't usually play Wolfgang and was not impressed. Maybe it's an early game issue because I didn't upgrade the gym. I'm just finding that I have to take far too many breaks to let him pump iron to keep out of wimpy let alone stay mighty. It feels even more tedious than having to constantly shove food down his throat did. Maybe it's better when you have a fully upgraded gym or maybe Wolfgang just isn't a good character for me.  

[Copyafriend]

18 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

So in conclusion... Wolfgang has 0 fights he is best at. Best general combat charcater you say? Wanda isn't even a combat charcater. Her main upside is fast travel. And not some pity little speedboost you claim to be OP. I'm talking teleportation with as many uses as your imagination can allow.

So basically, Wolfgang dedicated his whole life to being the strongest, and then got his ass utterly kicked by someone who uses fights as a casual hobby.

 

Honestly pretty extreme in how exaggerated wanda’s whips usefulness is.

range- super nice, if you’re already good at dodging its not a game changer in a boss fight, its just more comfortable. Its damage also isnt much better than a darksword because it swings slower. It IS nice though.

as far as the dodging watch goes, again SUPER nice, when i was playing wanda i was having a blast just not getting hit at all for easier bosses. But i dont get hit normally either (unless i make a mistake ofc). thats not a brag, im just saying that anything achievable with the backstep watch can be done by just taking a couple steps back. Or moving too quick for the enemy to hit you (shadow pieces fight is a joke, grab a magi and run on a road with a caneand it cant hit you either way, wanda being able to rush it is again nice but she doesnt auto win just because she has an advantage) dragonfly? She attacks once every five seconds, its one of the harder kites because you cant leave too quick or she’ll follow, but honestly its just as difficult as using the backstep to do it. 
 

dont get me wrong you have some DEFINITE points when it comes to hounds spiders, insanity monsters and kiting mobs. But she doesn’t automatically win at every fight. Healint is much harder as her for instance, if you dont have a ton of backstep watches then you’re in some serious danger. Each backstep watch is only worth 20 health (8 years is worth 20 health). I mean the argument is “dont get hit” but we all make mistakes, and i dont need 8 ancient crafts to fully heal. Nor do mine have a delay until i can use them again. Which is a pretty serious weakness of hers. Burst damage taken can easily overwhelm her time sensitive healing.

in addition her damage boost is not nearly as practical as wolfgangs. You’re goint to stat 40 health from death constantly to kill a boss? What about clearing the ruins like that? Im sure you’ve been suprised and lost half your health before, I certainly have. Heck the dragonfly fight is a perfect example, if you got caught in that you’d be dead. Or caught in beargers slash stomp combo (200 health, 40 after helm, 16 years) its dangerous, i mean its doable but dont act like shes just got that damage booat without downsides. So lets review that list and i’ll say who really wins.

every seasonal boss: if they have less than 10000 health, consider them on this list. They approximately tie at this point, nothing is super super dangerous to reliably burst dps wanda, and wolfgangs slight damage improvement doesnt matter much, either one could finish faster and wanda can reliably get an extra hit off to cancel wolfgangs damage advantage. 
any non boss: wanda wins 

the convenience of the whip shines, as its always ready and the range makes the biggest difference in groups. Its nothing crazy, but she will get hit less, and neither one is likely buffed up for the fight, itd be excessive if they were. The backstep watch is also more likely to get you hit than anything in this situation, but you can always just not use it. 

Dragonfly: wolfgang wins. For such a long bossfight the damage ends up making a difference pretty severely. The enrage mechanic is also very likely to be fatal to a granny wanda. If shes not a granny she loses even harder. Due to the short range df has you cant get any extra hits in with the whip, and you can kite instead of usint the backstep watch.

celestial champion. You admitted that wandas kit doesnt help much with him but still attrivuted the win to her even though the second phase easily being able to kill a granmy through even a helm (unless lucky with helm) and the third phase putting her to sleep to be finished off. Wolfgang wins this one too. 
klaus: he cant be stunlocked, in fact any stunlocking that came from the whips was removed. Wolfgang wins by virtue of temperature tics preventing wanda from healing easily as a single tic of damage prevents healing entirely, and wolfgang does more damage.

honestly i can find more where wolfgang shines if you want.

crab king: neither one is better, chef wins.

bee queen: neither one is better: ghost wins.

shadow pieces? Wolfgang actually does again win here. You only need to stack speed boosts or use a beefalo to dodge the rook, and the bishop actually can catch wanda pretty reliably if she tries to use the backstep watch. But wanda could speedrun it better, teleportation and not needing a magi is nice, but odds are you probably went to the ruins anyway for the fragments and crowns. 
Fuelweaver though? Yeah wanda wins. Only barely though, if you’re fighting the fuelweaver you either already have the telelocator staff, or you didnt get a walking cane during 

But despite all this i do think wanda is a better character. Utility anf teleportation and all that jazz, id play wicker befoee wolfyboy too. But my favorite character is wormwood so we saw that coming. 
 

wandas alarming clock is nice, but having a little more room to breathe while kiting isnt a game changer, and the damage isnt better than a dark sword. The backstep watch is also nice, but its about as hard to use as it is to just kite. Her damage is slightly worse than wolfgangs, and if she wants to be a dps character she needs to have almost half of the health of wes while also actively having her health being lowered. Shes not the easy pick up and kill character wolfgang is.

 

[Dextops]

45 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

in addition her damage boost is not nearly as practical as wolfgangs. You’re goint to stat 40 health from death constantly to kill a boss? What about clearing the ruins like that? Im sure you’ve been suprised and lost half your health before, I certainly have. Heck the dragonfly fight is a perfect example, if you got caught in that you’d be dead. Or caught in beargers slash stomp combo (200 health, 40 after helm, 16 years) its dangerous, i mean its doable but dont act like shes just got that damage booat without downsides. So lets review that list and i’ll say who really wins.

basing a character on the player and not the character