Not liking the DLC at all.

[DarkMaster13]

1 minute ago, TuxSam123 said:

I agree with the automation sugestion, however I disagree greatly with the first suggestion. I do agree that there needs to be some better way to automate rockets, but that doesn't justify scrapping the existing system. It's literally the same as building a nice statue then throwing it in the garbage.

But what do you even do with the rocket interiors?  Unless dupes are researching, they're mostly just standing around idle inside the rocket.  If they have high skills, you have to go way out of your way to cram as much morale boosting effects as you can into a tiny rocket space in addition to life support.  If they are researching, the rocket generally is just sitting around until something runs out and it has to land again to restock.  Then you need to almost manually restock the food, water, and air.  Then tear stuff down to scrub out the CO2 and polluted water before rebuilding.  That's why I find them so unrewarding.  They're a huge pain and basically give nothing over a fully abstracted cockpit.

7 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

I understand your pain, I really do, but I think this is sort of the point of Spaced Out, to expand on the... space system, to make it more "whole" and integrated with your colony's development. In the base game, it was so tedious to set it up, required a huge amount of steel, and you could only efficiently do that so late in the game that at that point, your colony was pretty much already sustaining itself (for the most part anyway). Maybe someone will one day make a mod to change how rockets operate and roll back to how they were in the base game, who knows. I personally hope they keep rockets interior the way it is, with of course improvements on automation along the way to facilitate space mining and material transport between asteroids. Even if things stay somewhat the way they are, the DLC is still very young, I am convinced people will find ways to automate things, even small things like locking rocket bathroom doors when there are no duplicants onboard so they dont keep running in there if you forget to disable them.

Personally my biggest gripe with the original rocket system was that it was far far too slow and moved far too little material.  Remember 12 day trips to the fourth ring?  I still think rockets should be faster, but at least the launch pods make transporting materials between bases tolerable.  Though yes, you needed way too much steel to build the bunker necessary just to get started.

[Brian.oni]

11 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

But what do you even do with the rocket interiors?  Unless dupes are researching, they're mostly just standing around idle inside the rocket.  If they have high skills, you have to go way out of your way to cram as much morale boosting effects as you can into a tiny rocket space in addition to life support.  If they are researching, the rocket generally is just sitting around until something runs out and it has to land again to restock.  Then you need to almost manually restock the food, water, and air.  Then tear stuff down to scrub out the CO2 and polluted water before rebuilding.  That's why I find them so unrewarding.  They're a huge pain and basically give nothing over a fully abstracted cockpit.

Perhaps I'm missing some past context, but how much have you played with the rockets lately?   Once you get on petrol rockets with more room for modules, the way the modules work with loaders/unloaders and the various fittings remove the majority of those headaches.   You 100% can automate the process such that a rocket lands, empties it's polluted water and refills with clean water.   Like wise for o2 and co2.  You could also set something up for food, but that one is probably more easily done manually.   Deconstructing to get rid of waste is unnecessary.  

Typically when I stop putting skills onto my dupes they need around 25 morale +/-.   Carpet tiles in a rocket covers 12morale pretty easily, not hard to get a great hall, and at least a bedroom or bath in there for another easy 7+ morale.    Then good food can make up the difference rather easily for even the pickiest dupe.    And the livable space inside is useful, when you start landing on further out planets sometimes it much easier to just live out of the rocket while you setup the basics on the planet.

[ZombieDupe]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:00 AM, crbd115 said:

Too hot and germy? The only biome too hot for a normal game is the oil biome which is on another planetoid, the jungle biome is fine heat wise, the marsh biome is basically room temp and the germs don't do anything anyway and is apart of what makes a map terra  Then you have the sulfur biome which is basically room temperature or maybe a few degrees warmer and the cold biome. How is any of that an issue?

Compared to forest and swamp starts it is undeniably hot. The current setup for Terra is more akin to a mid difficulty than easy or "ideal". Germs and diseases need a rework, I'm sure we can all agree that slimelung should be more contageous, even potentially deadly. So what happens if germs get the treatment they deserve? I have seen enough new people who play completely avoid swamp biomes and be dissuaded to progress for that reason. Similarly going out into a hot biome is counter-intuitive to someone new if they have enough heat problems already and it would bfeel like another unnecessary risk. It would make more sense for Terra to have more chill to temperate surrounding temperatures instead of temperate to hot temperatures.

My suggestion would be to make swamp a more temperature temperature biome to start, but for Terra specifically some easier surrounding biomes would make sense, such as the forest and rust biomes, with a bit of oasis in the mix as well, even if it has 30C to 35C. This way slimelung germs aren't something you start off with, but encounter later in the game, and if really cold temperatures do become deadly we don't have a cold biome nearby that would require atmo suits. Rust might have some chlorine, but its cold temperatures would should prove encouraging enough to go through, and forest is easy to dig through just like oasis biome.

19 hours ago, Solon64 said:

Depends what you define as a "trick". You could absolutely use an AT (w/o ST) to dump the heat into a material you vent to space which is a perfectly legitimate way to remove heat, or you could set up a steam chamber above the volcano (w/o AT) and get rid of it that way, also intended. You could just box it off and run polluted water pipes through it for pincha nuts, or regular water for electrolyzers, or just double insulate and forget about it entirely.

People seem to have this idea that *every* heat source must be removed in some way. Heat is a resource just like any other (it's energy!) and can either be marshalled to productive use or built around, or isolated, or ignored, or... you get the picture.

You live in a (mostly) closed system asteroid, of course you'll have to deal with heat, and in a closed system, of course you'll have to get rid of it somehow, that's just one of the engineering challenges associated with the game, that's what makes it fun for a lot of people.

If you don't like managing heat, maybe this isn't the game for you. And that's fine.

I'm perfectly fine managing heat, I have tried to challenge myself a few times even. I am not fine with it being a huge problem for first starting planetoid like Terra, which you would expect to be the recommended easy mode when we will have a library of planetoids to choose from in the future. Volcanic and oasis planetoids should be prime examples of this high heat level of difficulty, perfect for the engineering types, and I think Klei is starting to catch on. Would be way too easy and disappointing to just find a quick and easy slush geyser when starting on oasis planetoid when you are looking for that difficulty, so I understand the difficulty scale as well.

On 6/19/2021 at 7:15 AM, Tytan said:

i use an terra-map, pre-dlc
I have many dupes, most of the food was made with meal lice, I have 3 cool slush geysers, I haven't "tamed" any geysers I just take what I need and with a transport system I put them in iced geyser water, what will warming up and I transport it elsewhere until it gets hotter and I use it to feed or Metal Refinery or Fertilizer Synthesizer or I throw it away when it's too hot

the first thing i did on my map was the separation of the biomes, biomes wanted to keep ambient and i wanted warm, the first things i run after is isolation and exosuit
so the living areas have a temperature around 27, and the work areas oscillate between 40, the hottest it was, is  my dirt production "plant" which was very hot there.

Well that explains it, you rolled the dice really well there. Slush geysers are more or less end-all cooling solution, a good alternative to AQ/ST setup due to their low temperature output. Without them, you would definitely struggle a bit more.

[Solon64]

3 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Compared to forest and swamp starts it is undeniably hot. The current setup for Terra is more akin to a mid difficulty than easy or "ideal". Germs and diseases need a rework, I'm sure we can all agree that slimelung should be more contageous, even potentially deadly. So what happens if germs get the treatment they deserve? I have seen enough new people who play completely avoid swamp biomes and be dissuaded to progress for that reason. Similarly going out into a hot biome is counter-intuitive to someone new if they have enough heat problems already and it would bfeel like another unnecessary risk. It would make more sense for Terra to have more chill to temperate surrounding temperatures instead of temperate to hot temperatures.

My suggestion would be to make swamp a more temperature temperature biome to start, but for Terra specifically some easier surrounding biomes would make sense, such as the forest and rust biomes, with a bit of oasis in the mix as well, even if it has 30C to 35C. This way slimelung germs aren't something you start off with, but encounter later in the game, and if really cold temperatures do become deadly we don't have a cold biome nearby that would require atmo suits. Rust might have some chlorine, but its cold temperatures would should prove encouraging enough to go through, and forest is easy to dig through just like oasis biome.

I'm perfectly fine managing heat, I have tried to challenge myself a few times even. I am not fine with it being a huge problem to start with when we will have a library of planetoids to choose from in the future. Volcanic and oasis planetoids should be prime examples of this high heat level of difficulty, perfect for the engineering types, and I think Klei is starting to catch on. Would be way too easy and disappointing to just find a quick and easy slush geyser when starting on oasis planetoid when you are looking for that difficulty, so I understand the difficulty scale as well.

Alright, I believe I understand what you're saying now, my apologies for my misunderstanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that Terra should be a "more forgiving" start planet than it is currently, yes?

That's a reasonable argument to make, especially if you were a new player and were misled by its "ideal habitability" tag at planet selection screen, as it's certainly not "ideal" if you're just starting out and then have a CSV dumped 30 tiles away from your base.

I'm told in the current beta, it was given a cold slush and a cold salt geyser. Would that be TOO easy, maybe?

[ZombieDupe]

Just now, Solon64 said:

Alright, I believe I understand what you're saying now, my apologies for my misunderstanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that Terra should be a "more forgiving" start planet than it is currently, yes?

That's a reasonable argument to make, especially if you were a new player and were misled by its "ideal habitability" tag at planet selection screen, as it's certainly not "ideal" if you're just starting out and then have a CSV dumped 30 tiles away from your base.

I'm told in the current beta, it was given a cold slush and a cold salt geyser. Would that be TOO easy, maybe?

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't think slush geysers are too easy for first few difficulty planetoids. You get to learn how to tame a cool geyser with the only threat being hypothermia for your duplicants when not wearing atmo suits, and people will definitely want to tap into such water source, which works well as a player's first tamed geyser. You need to heat their output up a bit anyway to make sure that pipes don't freeze as the water is sieved/desalinated.

[Tytan]

11 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

you rolled the dice

yes, I handpicked

[CheeseGromit]

23 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

I have seen enough new people who play completely avoid swamp biomes and be dissuaded to progress for that reason. Similarly going out into a hot biome is counter-intuitive to someone new if they have enough heat problems already and it would bfeel like another unnecessary risk.

I'm far from new but pretty much avoided slime lung areas until this year. I'm very cautious with heat, in fact I just find myself to be very risk averse in this game in general. I think it's because I have the impression that actions in this game have consequences and those consequences can take a long time to manifest. The consequences can also take long time to recover from, to the point where if I wanted to go back and try something different as part of a learning experience I no longer have relevant save games and usually opt to restart. It's not that I would call these things difficult, more time consuming and a hassle.

[crbd115]

59 minutes ago, CheeseGromit said:

I'm far from new but pretty much avoided slime lung areas until this year. I'm very cautious with heat, in fact I just find myself to be very risk averse in this game in general. I think it's because I have the impression that actions in this game have consequences and those consequences can take a long time to manifest. The consequences can also take long time to recover from, to the point where if I wanted to go back and try something different as part of a learning experience I no longer have relevant save games and usually opt to restart. It's not that I would call these things difficult, more time consuming and a hassle.

To be honest most of the players that think like this are simply overthinking it. I used to do it too, but once they learn that for the most part these things are not really issues, the game becomes a lot easier. You can honestly bulldoze through most of the slime lung areas without it really harming you, at worst it slows you down a little. I've tried a few strategies, one with liquid locks to keep my base safe, one with just normal mechanical airlocks, and one where I just didn't even bother trying to keep my base gases separate. The first two strategies were fine when I felt like I needed to play safe, but once I did the third strategy and realized only 1-2 out of 12 dupes were getting sick at a time, and the ones that were getting sick weren't really that much less efficient then the healthy ones I just stopped caring. I just had a bunch of deodorizers to turn the po2 into o2 and eventually the slimelung just died off on its own and that was the end of it.
In terms of heat, as long as your not letting a volcano or hot vent/geyser run unimpeded it shouldn't really matter that much in terms of hot biomes like the jungle (if your not playing in the base game with a specific hot planet that is like oassie). None of them really have enough heat on their own to do anything besides the oil biome, if you just let the heat spread it usually just evens out with the cold biomes. 
Also now with the top crust, that is a massive amount of cold up there to utilize if you need to cool things down. I literally have just poured my coolant from metal refineries up there for around a hundred cycles and just barely got about 10% of it to room temperature.

[Coolthulhu]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:15 PM, TuxSam123 said:

I agree with the automation sugestion, however I disagree greatly with the first suggestion. I do agree that there needs to be some better way to automate rockets, but that doesn't justify scrapping the existing system. It's literally the same as building a nice statue then throwing it in the garbage.

It's not much of a nice statue when it spends most of the time wasting time and being just plain ugly:

• The most efficient way to transport tons of resources between planets is to build a tiny rocket and use a dropper to stack megatons of debris inside of the "habitable" part of the rocket. Solid cargo part would only slow it down.
• Cargo dropping is the optimal way of setting up any cargo storage inside the rocket, whether food, dirt for toilet, pdirt for pO2 or plastic for research
• Can't vent anything
• Food/toilet restrictions can't be set up automatically
• Bugs with "lacking skill/resource/dupe" display and dupes being in old location in skill tree until you reload

It's not much of a "nice statue" with those ugly bits. And if anyone wants to suggest "don't use what I call exploits! that's cheating!", it's basically like saying "so what if it's a disgusting eyesore, just don't look at it!".

While it may all be fixable, it's not fixed yet, there is no obvious, truly correct way to fix it, even if it was fixed it still wouldn't be obviously better than simplifying it.

I would probably prefer if Klei fixed it instead of scrapping it, but your "nice statue" analogy doesn't work, because what we got is certainly not pretty. It's a block of stone with a rough sketch of future statue drawn on it with a marker.

[ATM Reaper]

Couldnt disagree more with this topic. The DLC while I agree its not for everyone, for me its great. I dont like the small map version but the classic DLC is just what I want. The DLC adds a huge amount to the game which is just amazing. They are fixing mechanics such as food storage etc which is adding more depth to the game. Not every aspect is for everyone so if you dont like it then dont play it, stick to the base game, for me though I will continue to relish every addition they make.

[Elin64]

About automation we need like an interplanetary automation who can allow us to send signal between planet, it could solve a lot.

The other point is automation about rockets, we need autopilot and good automation on rocket status and auto launch

[Gurgel]

On 6/21/2021 at 6:20 PM, Elin64 said:

About automation we need like an interplanetary automation who can allow us to send signal between planet, it could solve a lot.

The other point is automation about rockets, we need autopilot and good automation on rocket status and auto launch

I think there is a good chance we will at least get the former. There _is_ some crude signalling possibility at the moment (send a specific material you would not send otherwise), but it is really slow and complicated.

[Swoop5994]

automation interplanetary is there as a mod for now i know this is a bit of a stretch but im certain it will be implemented

There are so many things that i didnt saw come to life or if i saw it once on reddit it was that...here a little list of things im planning to play with

Automation of course no one seems to use clock signal and 4 bit ribbons to send specific pulsed binary to reach different locations from a single point having them on - off -oscillating or in closed loop control. I tried to split the 0.1 second pulse in two then in two then in two you see where this is going it went batshit crazy lol 0.1s is pretty good if you have a up-edge signal and a down edge at this speed. 

we could make calcul way before the counters with half-adders and full adders -substractor-divider ect... now it takes less space with the counters and you can use materials like gas or liquid to make some 'memory' banks 

So now there is place to build literal computers

but im more likely to continue to mess with the radbolt collsion wich seems to got a sound added and was revised again last update it was doing 4726 degrees spikes with 1 collision of 2 radbolts making contaminants nuclear waste and rads in the process. Automation for catching them is less easy than the rest of the sensors in the game but it is very much working i tried them all rad sensor under vacuum was doing great. and there is always the infamous impulse edge-up button that when paired with buffers can catch radbolt between doors pretty easy and always on time

Food machines that grow critters plants and have the ressources all in one big machine to make advanced dishes 

Bubbles sorters with vertical corridors and doors. 

Spom can  provide all the cold needed if you make a good heatsink with one of the cold vent or near space/in cold biomes 

The radiations in general i think could have fissive fuel or something that could make it dangerous to stockpile or a way to get a meltdown without the research reactor and try to control the reaction lol

very few of the players goes to few thousands cycles and even less are pushing automation to its limits (while i know that DLC have more work to do with dupes)

Silos are Very much more important than solar in my head but if you think solar worth all this wasted place and it's the way to go well go for it but i really dont use them that much.

There is the fully automated storage system that brothgar made a while ago that is very interesting and keeping everything sorted out automatically

the traditional sourgas boiler didnt get a radioactive touch hehe but yeah you get it all the machines that could be built with radbolt collision added to produce byproduct *contamined* an so on.

You can keep hate the game .though for 15$  i would take a few others like this

 

[mi3f]

I like the dlc too.  But certain aspects of it I really don't like.  The revamp of the space rocket systems is really nice, but there need to be more clear tooltips and information available for someone that doesn't want to google/watch youtube vids to figure it out.  Also, there need to be better solutions for traveling in space.  I do not like the way it feels to build a little capsule and try to cram everything in there.  It's not as much fun as I wish it was.  The entire process of sending a rocket has gotten more complicated and while that isn't a bad thing it needs to be explained better in game.  The second major issue I have is performance related.  ONI (before DLC) was finally getting to a good place running fairly well.  Performance has taken a nose dive.  Others have speculated that it's memory leak issues.  The last major issue for me is the drag/save bug that seems on persisting through various ONI iterations after I thought (maybe wrongfully?) that it was fixed?  I'd like them to stop adding features until they fix some bugs that have been persistent the last few years.  Overall ONI is a great game and I have thousands of hours into it.  There are of course some issues that inevitably crop up and that's all to be expected since it's still being developed.  I hope the focus will eventually become less on big features and more on fine tuning (which has been alluded to).  Time to squash some of those bugs that have been around forever.

[cpy]

I miss my frozen core planets and all the traits you could have in them. They all are same now.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

I miss my frozen core planets and all the traits you could have in them. They all are same now.

Same here. But it is a rather obvious addition to the DLC.

[Sigma Cypher]

I agree with the OP about SG's.  Personally, I quit playing for a long time after Klei "fixed" water sieves and other things so that they stopped deleting heat.  It rendered many physics-breaking but fun early game designs obsolete.  I studied physics and I love it but I don't need to play a physics sim game. 

Love the DLC.

[DMFan79]

I've bought the DLC as soon as it was available on Steam, but never played it. I really don't like the changes with rockets. I don't like the idea of building a moving base, I loved how rockets worked previously.

I'm following the DLC development closely, hoping something will suck me into the game again... for now I'm mildly interested, but the idea of having to build a rocket-house is just a no-no for me...

[Smife]

Heat is ok, realistic and kinda fun to manage. Radbolts, I agree, they are ridiculous and too gamey. Just why.

[tnankie]

Jeeze I really hope you whiners get what you are seemingly asking for and Klei implements a rocket mass vs thrust scaling to the game while counting the mass in the capsule.

 

If you were so happy in your rut that you had found in the base game why are you looking to change it?

 

Personally I like the challenges that force me to question my assumptions and procedures, that make me reassess what I am doing. But that is just me, I totally get that may not be someone elses preference.

 

The fun/adventure is getting there not the destination, maybe I am more of a process person that I had appreciated prior to this.

[gabberworld]

On 6/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, DMFan79 said:

rocket-house is just a no-no for me...

you cant really build a house unless you use some tricks, and also you not need build, its just some todo that. rocket needs, fuel, food , and oxygen. that's the main thing. minor thing is toiled 

i to like base version  as you not need worry about stuff like that , but then again dlc rocket system is closer to realistic . because you need those in real life as well. 

[Smife]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:23 PM, DMFan79 said:

the idea of having to build a rocket-house is just a no-no for me...

Ah yes, a square hovering in space. This alone (besides radbolts) completely ruined ONI for me.

[crbd115]

10 hours ago, gabberworld said:

i to like base version  as you not need worry about stuff like that , but then again dlc rocket system is closer to realistic . because you need those in real life as well. 

I actually feel like its further away from realism. The current version is the equivalent of a pocket dimension and has a ton of exploits. The old one was just assume he's in there with a chair and a control panel. Sure the game acted as if he didn't exist and didn't really keep track of his food and bladder until he came back out but that could've been updated. They could've made it so we had to supply it with food and oxygen and they would slowly go down the same rate as duplicant consumption if there was a duplicant inside. Instead we got this. Which had a novelty at first but after the first few times it becomes tedious for a lot of people.

[Sasza22]

2 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I actually feel like its further away from realism. The current version is the equivalent of a pocket dimension and has a ton of exploits

Well at least it`s an attempt to make it realisitc in an ONI world sense. Exploits are inevitable and small spaces cause people to come up with tedious repeatable setups.

Yet i still like the freedom it gives us to put whatever we want in there. There just needs to be some improvements so we don`t have to put outhouses inside there for example or a better way to manage atmo suits inside without the need to manually put it on and off as there isn`t enough room for docks most of the time.

What i think it needs is to be low maintainance so that you can just fire and forget without the need to micro the dupe around. Like imagine a station refilling oxygen in the suit without the dupe taking it off so there`s no need to pressure the cabin, a toilet that works only during flight and expells waste into space (deletes it) and a food container that`s a part of the checklist so the dupe won`t launch without it filled.

[crbd115]

45 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Well at least it`s an attempt to make it realisitc in an ONI world sense.

That statement has no clear meaning as oni goes back and forth between trying to make something real world realistic and oni's simplify it because its a video game logic.

Yes I do think they need to be simplified which is part of what I said. I think there's ways to satisfy both points where it lowers the exploits while making the game less micro management intensive. If they had simply updated the vanilla version of the capsule rather then reworking it entirely that would've been simpler and still kept the majority of exploits out.

There are other ways they could fix the current design as well but they would probably remove that freedom you say you like. The problem is that freedom comes at the cost of having to micromanage. The more freedom you have in this system the more work you have to do with it. The more you simplify it the less freedom you have. I personally could care less about having freedom to put whatever I want in it because its just a vehicle to move from one place to the other at the basic sense. The advanced parts should come with the different modules and engines in combination.