Jump to content

Solo Players Support


Recommended Posts

41 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Basically it boils down to making parts of the game more accessible to those who are less skilled then you so they can still get equally as much enjoyment out of their game as You do, OR locking those players behind a difficulty threshold that many of them may never even be able to accomplish.

But that's part of the reason I liked playing DS/T when I was new. The difficulty was brutal, but there was always stuff to strive for and encourage me to get skilled at.

For instance, in DS, you needed to be experienced at the game in order to do the ruins. You always had to prepare an immense amount for just finding the ruins sinkhole to spelunk into it, and then spend even more prep going around and actually clearing out the ruins. While I was terribly bad at the time, I always looked forward to trying to do it one day. Even when I finally did it and died a bunch of times to assorted dangers, like depth worms, I never backed down and kept trying to push on. That sort of difficulty curve was extremely enjoyable to me, and pushed me to actually become a better player to utilize the ruins content.

DST raid bosses, while still being very different, were still a similar feeling to me. They are relentless for new players and will need a large amount of prep, but it is certainty not impossible. Bosses like DFly also prompt you to get better at timings, since the boss will both punish players who try to kite too early and for kiting too late.

The only bosses I do not appreciate at all are BQ/Crab king due to likely needing some sort of assisted method to reliably solo the fight, but every other  boss has some way of doing it normally.
 

51 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What we DO NOT WANT- (or at least I don’t not sure bout OP) are your strategies to Wall of portions of the fight eliminating the one feature of running for your life from exploding Larvae that makes this fight unique compared to fighting any old common tree guardians..

I don't understand why you want to intentionally handicap yourself on doing the fight if you haven't beaten DFly in the first place. The walls eliminate exactly one aspect of the entire fight, and DFly is still significantly difficult even with the larvae out of the picture. I already covered the kiting part, but DFly's enrage is a really critical timing you don't want to miss or you will get greatly punished for failing to. 


Finally, and while this is probably want you don't want to hear, you can always overprepare when fighting a boss. You will likely make a ton of mistakes, and having a large amount of spare gear will offset the issues in your first few fights. In the worst case where you don't need the additional gear and DFly dies, that means you have spare armor/healing you use for other fights anyway. I used to do this a lot when I was getting used to DST raid boss HP on the PS4, and it really helped with getting used to the fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

But that's part of the reason I liked playing DS/T when I was new. The difficulty was brutal, but there was always stuff to strive for and encourage me to get skilled at.
[...]
The only bosses I do not appreciate at all are BQ/Crab king due to likely needing some sort of assisted method to reliably solo the fight, but every other  boss has some way of doing it normally.
 

Same here, i loved those days and it's the time i had the most fun playing DST, despite some miserable fails on my early attempts; option of scaling health would probably discourage players that struggle to ever fight the vanilla version. That being said, i don't care enough as it won't affect my gameplay, and if more people would enjoy the game that way then add sliders that could make the bosses easier(sliders to make them higher hp would be pointless imo, same fights but longer)

I just want to add that BQ can be fought solo reliable with no assistance and is probably my favorite surface fight. There is no setup required, just the usual armor+healing and knowing the grumble bees pattern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OPs post was not asking for strategies on how to fight bosses & with that in mind- I think that there are several things that if Klei wanted to: could make these fights more accessible when less players are involved in the fight then was originally intended.

Being able to recruit A.I. Pigmen/Merm followers and equip them with Helmet, Armor & Weapon would be helpful for players who play mostly Alone, Because in my experience fighting Dragonfly: A single player can’t do enough damage quickly enough to get her to drop her scales.

(I had a second player join my world and help me test this fight with Abigails petal buff and we were able to get scales off it in just a few hits..)

A cool Idea I had for Dragonfly (I’ve attempted to fight her enough times that I feel I can confidently make this suggestion) Is that I’ve noticed that Dragonfly’s Biome has Several Lava pits that when you beat up Dragonfly enough: She will flee towards & Spawn Larvae from, This is a unique feature for this fight and using walls to block them off feels like straight up cheating..

However there are features in the game that I’ve only ever seen used while attempting to roll your world back or Retro-fit new content- That Feature: Sinkholes & Cave Exits will temporarily seal off.

What if we could get a mechanic like this for when less players attempt to fight Dragonfly? Like what if it had a Battle Radius (like when she flees and returns to her spawn with full health if you move too far away from her area) that when less players are in the Radius: Several of her Lava Pits become Hardened Magma she can’t spawn Larvae from? When a single player fights her.. maybe all fire pits could seal themselves off except for one..

And in turn- Klei could update this fight so players can no longer cheat it by building walls around the pits because the Larvae will either explode through the wall or jump over the walls now.

The Less players in Battle Radius (Think of something similar to Feastclops Red circular Aurora) things like Self Sealing Lava Pits and lower Health apply.

This works both ways to make the fight Easier for Solo players & also Harder when more players are involved- she can start Enraged with double Armor when 6 players are attempting it with all lava pits active.

Dragonfly is really the only boss I’m attempting right now- But maybe people can provide cool idea’s for other Bosses.

I dislike being told “watch strategy videos, use cheese tactics or Git Good” 

Thats a very one sided way of looking at things: Because from MY perspective- I see it as content that is in the game, that could be enjoyed by more players the more accessible it was made to them.

From my personal experience: Building 16 marble armors, then building stone walls around her fire pits just seems like too much trouble then what it’s worth.. it’s not fun.. it’s just tedious & mostly annoying.

I’m only trying to kill D-Fly for the Twitch Furnace & Vampire Broodling skins. 

Currently I’m building walls around the fire pits (well all except one so it doesn’t feel like I am 100% removing this particular fights unique feature) while thinking- It would be cool if bosses simply scaled themselves: Not just in Health, not just with some slider you alter in the World Gen settings prior to hosting But Rather AUTO-Scales itself based on how many players are within its battle radius & got easier/harder based on how many players are actively in it’s area.

People of all skill levels should be able to get the utmost enjoyment out of the product they purchased, without being told to Quit complaining, watch videos & get good.

(I hope that this post inspires some really really good ideas & much better thought out community suggestions, maybe someone will even get to work on making some cool as heck mods like this onto the Steam Workshop.. the bottom line: is that I’m tired of trying to defend my point of view when I shouldn’t have to.. there should be greater efforts taken in making this content more enjoyable for all players, rather then just remaining to be how it is now.)

Please remain on topic & constructive to how Klei could improve the games Boss fights for Solo players. 
 

Thank You all very much for reading, and please I hope you do have a lovely Day <3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So here's the thing - I read the first page, and skipped to writing a post.  This may or may not be information that has already been covered.

1) This game is not a combat simulator.  It is a sandbox environment where combat happens, and can be a primary mode of tackling obstacles... but it is actually an intended part of the design that combat is unfair against a player, and that the environment provides tools you can use to solve your problems creatively.

*again*this*game*is*not*a*combat*simulator*

It is not overwatch, league of legends, dark souls, kingdom hearts, dragonball z, or megaman.

This is not a point up for dispute!  At no point in any Don't Starve game did a tutorial tell you to make a weapon to fight off monsters.  Through Klei's history of making games they have almost always made them to where you can solve the obstacles in the game with creative use of your tools and the environment.  It is no less valid to defeat Bee Queen via an army of bunny men, an oven, a friend logging in, switching to Wolfgang, or kiting her endlessly over the course of 10 days as Wes using only an ax as a weapon.

When you ask for health values to be adjusted so that you can fight an enemy 1v1 you are failing to understand how a game like this gets played.  Not only are there many ways to take out this boss without fighting it, but every character can fight it solo with enough armor and healing.  If you don't want to build a wall that's on you, the game never said you couldn't build walls, the game never said you had to, all it said was that you're gonna get lavae several times mid fight.  Walls are in the game, and they are walls, they do what walls do.  Some mobs attack them, others don't.  Klei decided each mob's reaction.  Their behavior is not a bug or glitch.  It is up to you to use them or not, but that is your decision.  The game doesn't care, you get lavae all the same.

Last on this point - the game kinda does have a way for you to cut all monster health in half - Pick Wolfgang.  So like... its on you to learn how to play the game.  Whether my advice is to build a wall, an oven, an army of bunny men, stack on the armor and healing, bring a friend, switch to Wolfgang, or maybe leave the frog rain out of this...  you are either in a mode where you will listen to advice, or you are in a mode where you will reject valid advice that has a proven track record of success in favor of repeating failing strats that almost purposefully ignore core mechanics of the game in favor of whining about why the game devs need to change x,y,z about this game for your "I promise its a good idea it just doesn't actually work."

2) I am actually super concerned about solo players being left in the dust with every update Klei releases.  I play solo more than 99% of the time and really work hard to complete all of the tasks in the game.  I used to complain a lot about this but lately I just take it in stride.  I'm not going to solve every problem alone, but hey! I didn't invent the car yet I drive one to work every day! so I watch what other people are doing.  I ask for advice on what I can change or improve on to succeed in this game, and I do it - I change.

You can change to.  Listen to what people are saying.  I get that you find the game challenging BUT people have already figured out about every which way to defeat every obstacle in the game by hook or by crook.  If you don't want to learn from others that's your call, but if you refuse to listen to how they do these things, at least accept that they can do it, and don't give up and demand game changes just because the solution eludes you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I didn't invent the car yet I drive one to work every day! so I watch what other people are doing.

I honestly think this has been the spirit of the game for a long time. Even in single-player, a lot of content was being added that was only reasonably expected for players to find through connecting with the community (wikis, streams, forum, guides...)

I am legitimately curious how many people have discovered how to revert the Aporkalypse by themselves, for example. (Not counting discovering it via digging through the code). 

12 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I am actually super concerned about solo players being left in the dust with every update Klei releases.

I'm actually more concerned about new players being left in the dust with every update. I think it's as you said that solo players can eventually share in the exploits/strategies. But for people who don't get into the internet for the "how-to's" the game has been... pretty much identical for years.

Unless you stumble upon Lunar Island, or stumble upon how to activate Fuel Weaver (zero chance), and so on. All while trying not to die.

By the way, I'm totally fine with that model. I actually love having to learn from other people. Just saying that's an intriguing aspect of DS/T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

I honestly think this has been the spirit of the game for a long time. Even in single-player, a lot of content was being added that was only reasonably expected for players to find through connecting with the community (wikis, streams, forum, guides...)

I am legitimately curious how many people have discovered how to revert the Aporkalypse by themselves, for example. (Not counting discovering it via digging through the code). 

I'm actually more concerned about new players being left in the dust with every update. I think it's as you said that solo players can eventually share in the exploits/strategies. But for people who don't get into the internet for the "how-to's" the game has been... pretty much identical for years.

Unless you stumble upon Lunar Island, or stumble upon how to activate Fuel Weaver (zero chance), and so on. All while trying not to die.

By the way, I'm totally fine with that model. I actually love having to learn from other people. Just saying that's an intriguing aspect of DS/T

Klei also show hints in their trailers and update poster

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Klei also show hints in their trailers and update poster

Right, but I don't know if it's enough for people "outside the community" to figure out they have to put a star-caller staff on the moon altar, wall it off with statues or lure plants, wait for full moon, go down the ruins, make a deconstruction staff, use it on the moon-caller staff, get to the archives and place it on the Orchestrina, for instance.

Again, I love that we have to consult each other to learn new content. But don't you think it's strange that almost everything (except new characters) that has been added after single-player Reign of Giants is made near-inaccessible for most players?

 

*Guessing that most players are either solo, or people playing in short-term pub worlds, or people with less experience, or that don't consult guides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It takes 6 fully used tentacle spikes to kill Dragonfly but even given that: A solo player still can’t do enough damage to it with that by themselves to get it to drop its scales.

Meanwhile bring along a completely idle Wendy with Riled up Abigail & you’ll have that scale drop in a matter of seconds.

Its content that clearly was never designed with a solo player in mind, but it’s content that’s in the game and could probably be enjoyed by that solo player if it was reworked just a little bit for them.

This thread was to discuss potential ways Klei could make that content more accessible to that player-

And if you actually read my post before responding: Being able to equip a follower with battle helms, marble Armors and Tentacle spikes so they can essentially behave as that “Player Two” 

Would go a long ways in AT LEAST getting Dragonfly Scales to drop more easily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

klei makes bad decisions. See anceint guardian xD

Whether good or bad may be a subject of debate, but to anyone who says "walls are exploiting a glitch in ai" the answer is a firm no.  Klei has mobs in the game who fly over walls, walk around them, attack them, and directly demolish them.  If any mob has a certain interaction it is not an accident.  This much is fact.

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It takes 6 fully used tentacle spikes to kill Dragonfly but even given that: A solo player still can’t do enough damage to it with that by themselves to get it to drop its scales.

Again - I can give you advice, but it is up to you to accept the advice or ignore it.  I use a hambat for dfly every time, and even on console I ko her before the first winter.

Also - whether I get a second scale or not is kinda a moot point.  If you're playing solo I doubt you need 2 furnaces so quickly, and you can just come back in 20 days to get another.  Taking out dfly takes me a hambat, less than 10 perogies and less than 4 football helmets even if I'm playing Wes.  You don't have to take my advice, but I mean, you should at least acknowledge that you're willfully disregarding known viable strategies.  idk if you want to get better at the game, or just justify your current abilities with supposed limitations...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The scale you are dropping with another player in the first stage is just an extra scale, you'll get another scale when you kill her anyway. You might know this but it seems to me like you don't. And also a missunderstanding you seem to have, walling lavaes does not make them explode faster, thus does not change when she enrages. You'll actually hit her a lot more before the enrage by doing this then by running around for 2 minutes.

Needing to toggle between 5 weapons is such an unnecessary difficulty spike, especially on console. As stated, just use a hambat, tho i'm sure you'll find a reason not to. But at this point i'm quite sure Mike is not here for advice, if he would he would've defeated Dfly by now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again- This thread IS NOT for giving Advice It is not contributing towards the actual topic of the thread and as such my entire response will be placed into a Spoiler Tag to avoid the thread being Off-Topic.

Spoiler

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

The Dark Sword or the newer Return of Them: Glass Cutter takes 404 hits to kill her, but any of that looks far more logical then 924 hits with a Hambat.

Call me stupid, call me hard headed, call me under-experienced I don’t really care what you call me.. I just know that this thread was not created asking for advice- And to continue to provide that should be considered as being off-topic from the OP’s original intentions for it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think giving tips on the matter is offtopic since this is the idea of the thread, is it or is it not hard for solo players, and of course you gonna give arguments if you think either, i think that's the whole point. 

I also play on console. If you use the wiki for your info, then you can also see damage outputs for each weapon, and you can read how a hambat works. There's really no reason to use any other weapon until you spec into dark swords. Anyways, i'm promising myself that i won't take you seriously from now on, you're either a high level troll and i keep falling in your traps, or a guy who's just never gonna change his opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since your argument is :

Raid boss are too difficult, after trying for 3 hours that way and failling everytime i conclude that they should lower the difficulty.

We are answering :

Raid boss arent that hard and lowering the difficulty isnt necessary if you try this way.

 

Seem to me that you realize that some content are designed for multiplayer but doesnt want to put extra effort to achieve the same result as a solo player. If you really wnat an extra scale there is a way (gunpowder, on tentacle, houndious shootious ...) plus at some point scale isnt a problem at all.

 

I still agree that boss should be harder the more people engage in the fight. Your idea with the lava pond seem reasonnable (its like klaus who spawn more Krampi).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Again- This thread IS NOT for giving Advice It is not contributing towards the actual topic of the thread and as such my entire response will be placed into a Spoiler Tag to avoid the thread being Off-Topic.

  Hide contents

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

The Dark Sword or the newer Return of Them: Glass Cutter takes 404 hits to kill her, but any of that looks far more logical then 924 hits with a Hambat.

Call me stupid, call me hard headed, call me under-experienced I don’t really care what you call me.. I just know that this thread was not created asking for advice- And to continue to provide that should be considered as being off-topic from the OP’s original intentions for it.

 

That isnt a valid argument. You can easy see how powerful is a hambat when you kill spider with 2 hits

See? Raid bosses arent that grindy. Is lack of experience

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

Many. Until you learn how to kite her you will need a stupid amount of armor

I recommend you arround a stack of 30 healing food equivalent to pierogi and all the armor you can bring (the leftovers can be used for other future fights)

Once you kill her you will know how much you need and this number will decrease with your experience but always prevent than regret

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

Entirely depends on how much you get hit. If you use the wall strategy for the larvae you're going to get hit at least every time she returns from spawning larvae since that first hit is difficult to dodge. I would suggest making a pile of helmets as big as you can afford next to where you plan to fight her, if you don't use them all that's great but you can use them up the next time. As for healing, if it's your first time, bring about ten pierogi and some healing salves if you have glands spare, really doesn't hurt to be over-prepared though so more is always better. Make sure you've got a panflute to deal with the enraged mode and be ready to use it when the larvae are almost dead. It's not a hard fight with the right set up, but it is long.

@Mike23Ua The hambat is a fantastic weapon, if you make it fresh for a boss fight it will be all you need to beat that boss even if you take way too long. It only really starts to be useless once it's in yellow freshness. For Dfly it's exceptionally good because she has a ton of health and it's cheap as hell to make one so your resource investment is kept low, something you were concerned about.

As for your argument, it seems you're not asking for a simple boss HP slider anymore, now you want bosses changed so people can't "cheese" them. I happen to like the cheese, I like that there are creative ways to beat the bosses available to me and other solo players that make use of more of the games mechanics. They make survival feel more intelligent rather than just hitting something with a stick over and over. There's also the grind element. Playing solo is already made hard because you have to do everything yourself, the little time/HP savers like walling off the lava pools in the Dfly arena make the fight easier sure, but they also make the prep time shorter for the entire future of that world. That frees me up to get other things done. I don't want there to be no advancement in my worlds, I want progression and for me that progression comes in the form of things like boss arenas and mob farms. I like the design of the boss fights, but if there's a shortcut to beating them quicker in the future I'm going to take it because I don't want to fight them at the same disadvantage every single time. I'm all for a boss HP slider, that does me no harm but you can't argue for the game to be adjusted to suit your playstyle if it actively damages my playstyle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

healing wise the answer is a lot but im gonna guess youre trying to tank dfly right?if so i recommend marble suits or theulecite suits and some theulcite crowns.me personally i use marble suits and theulecite crowns 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

  Hide contents

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

Call me stupid

Some people will call you under skilled just because you don't even understand how hambats work.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
  • Create New...