Solo Players Support

[ZTheNecromancer]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

wow complaining about building in a crafting building survival game

we get to a new level

More like a - level. We don't up, we just keep going backwards.

[JoeW]

You know. You all can have differing opinions about a thing without having to be upset with each other over it.

Maybe we can take this opportunity to be reminded that these types of reactions and views are something we have to consider when designing things. There is no one simple answer to anything because there is no single viewpoint or idea on the best way to do it, ourselves included. 

So maybe when discussing things, like this you can approach things from different perspectives as well. 

And maybe, when discussing your own viewpoint you can understand that not everybody knows all the ins and outs of everything ever - and  that's probably the case for most others players as well.

Let's understand that any given game has a lot of different people that play in a lot of different ways with varying degrees of skill, understanding and general preferences. 

You're discussing an age old concept in multiplayer games that has no single simple solution. But is one of focus, resources and priority. 

This should not be a controversial statement that DST is not a solo friendly game. It was already designed as a solo game when it was called Don't Starve and DST was specifically the muliplayer offshoot. At some point it was decided not to leave solo players in the dust, but it's not exactly solo friendly. 

That doesn't mean it can't be done. But could it be done better? Does it feel fair and interesting? Or does it feel cheesy and tedious? 

Some of you have been getting way too personal. Leave that for some other forum. If somebody in particular bothers you in the way they go about answering questions, just put them on ignore and move on. 

You all took this thread from a newer forum user and blew it up. Keep our community fun and friendly. K? thx. 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

about walls being tedious: You used more than needed. You only need to put 20 walls (pretty quick to achieve) 0 of each side of 1 lava pond 

like this

with few practise your need of armor and healing will be less than for the 1st time

[Mike23Ua]

Spoiler

Okay so I beat Dragonfly My way- I didn’t wall off ALL the lava pits because that just takes away what makes this fight unique, but even still it felt tedious and could probably be made less so.

In addition to that: this is my FIRST EVER Dragonfly kill- Which means out of 9965+ Brutal Winters I’ve had to endure- I was NEVER Aware that there is something called a SCALED FURNACE which not only requires no fuel source at all whatsoever but also provides infinite free warmth & light.

So NOW I’m completely freaking confused as to why people would not want players who struggle staying alive to have easier access to this thing.

You can watch 5 minutes of this fight Here if you like:

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/riplings/video/116345361

The spoiler above is off topic, which is why it was put in a spoiler tag.

But my final conclusion here is that such a noob friendly structure (Scaled Furnace) which helps keep you alive (and I’ve never had access to until today) Should DEFIANTLY be more easy for people who actually struggle in staying alive to obtain.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

  Hide contents

Okay so I beat Dragonfly My way- I didn’t wall off ALL the lava pits because that just takes away what makes this fight unique, but even still it felt tedious and could probably be made less so.

In addition to that: this is my FIRST EVER Dragonfly kill- Which means out of 9965+ Brutal Winters I’ve had to endure- I was NEVER Aware that there is something called a SCALED FURNACE which not only requires no fuel source at all whatsoever but also provides infinite free warmth & light.

So NOW I’m completely freaking confused as to why people would not want players who struggle staying alive to have easier access to this thing.

You can watch 5 minutes of this fight Here if you like:

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/riplings/video/116345361

The spoiler above is off topic, which is why it was put in a spoiler tag.

But my final conclusion here is that such a noob friendly structure (Scaled Furnace) which helps keep you alive (and I’ve never had access to until today) Should DEFIANTLY be more easy for people who actually struggle in staying alive to obtain.

If it is essy to obtain loses its value. Its a prize for overcoming a challenge.

Also, newbies should learn how to propely survive in a rustic way so they are prepare for the worst. This will make the survival more simple. Its a qol structure that makes not wastr resources in long term worlds

Also, having this curve of progression makes the game be funny for longer instead of people getting bored after 100h

[Yuuko]

 

Quote

Again: The OP isn’t asking for your tried and true methods of how you do things, the op isn’t asking for any of your Advice on how to do things, the OP is quite simply asking for features to be added, modified or mildly changed that makes this content more enjoyable for them.

It may not directly answer to what the op asked, but it is challenging their premise and as such is an appropriate response.  The OP states they feel it is "kinda impossible" to beat these bosses alone, or without a lot of set up time.  That assertion is wrong.  It does take knowledge and experience, but they are not impossible to solo.  With practice and dedication everything in the game can be done solo.

If their premise is faulty then their suggestion based on the premise is faulty, which is why so many responses don't go passed refuting the premise.  Is it easy?  No.  dfly, bee queen, ect are very hard, are supposed to be very hard.  Just because you can walk up to them and start the fight easily doesn't mean they should be as easily defeated.  I mean these bosses are basically DST's final bosses.

This type of premise means the player likely hasn't seen videos of people beating these bosses solo, and may not be aware of the tactics that we've discovered to defeat them.  As such many people simply suggest what does work to aid the op in their real goal, which is to defeat these bosses in their worlds - not to necessarily change the game.

Quote

But my final conclusion here is that such a noob friendly structure (Scaled Furnace) which helps keep you alive (and I’ve never had access to until today) Should DEFIANTLY be more easy for people who actually struggle in staying alive to obtain.

I disagree - the item isn't "noob friendly," its "luxury."  Its not something you get because you can't combat the cold, like some tutorial mode gimme-gear.  It's luxury for people who are so far beyond overcoming winter that to keep the game interesting some of the tedious process is cut out.  Similarly the startcaller staff isn't "noob gear for people who can't build campfires," its luxury gear for people who know very well how to make a campfire, but have earned the staff instead.

[Silent Echoes]

This has been a very interesting read over the last few days.  I agree with Mike. Yep, im going to White Knight for the Antagonist and this is why.

I am a big advocate for playing the game your way. Some people play Day Only, no bosses, no hounds, no conceivable challenge whatsoever. They choose to turn off the things that annoy or kill them. They have no interest in getting better at the game, or learning strats, or working for the victory. They just want to play the way they want to play. And honestly, thats ok. Who are we to judge? So adding a slider to the bosses health seems like a cool idea to me. AS LONG AS THE CHANGES DONT EFFECT MY GAMEPLAY, ITS FINE!

Let people play the way they want. Im also a console player and I understand the need to want more options to personalize my gameplay. PC players have mods to augment the game in so many different ways. Console does not. So I welcome more ways to customize my world. Granted, a sliding HP bar for bosses isn't one i would use, but if enough people desire it why not add it? 

I want the option to use geometric placement, HP bars for mobs and myself. I want to be able to turn off the visual effects of snow during winter. I want the ability to turn on certain set pieces when i generate a new world. I also would like a hard mode in the game. 

These are some things that i would like added to make the game more fun for me. What makes Mike's request any different? He wants a feature added that would make the game more enjoyable for him. 

I completely disagree with making bosses easier BUT i respect the fact that Mike wants it for his personal enjoyment. At the end of the day we are all just trying to have fun...

[viberr]

5 minutes ago, Silent Echoes said:

This has been a very interesting read over the last few days.  I agree with Mike. Yep, im going to White Knight for the Antagonist and this is why.

I am a big advocate for playing the game your way. Some people play Day Only, no bosses, no hounds, no conceivable challenge whatsoever. They choose to turn off the things that annoy or kill them. They have no interest in getting better at the game, or learning strats, or working for the victory. They just want to play the way they want to play. And honestly, thats ok. Who are we to judge? So adding a slider to the bosses health seems like a cool idea to me. AS LONG AS THE CHANGES DONT EFFECT MY GAMEPLAY, ITS FINE!

Let people play the way they want. Im also a console player and I understand the need to want more options to personalize my gameplay. PC players have mods to augment the game in so many different ways. Console does not. So I welcome more ways to customize my world. Granted, a sliding HP bar for bosses isn't one i would use, but if enough people desire it why not add it? 

I want the option to use geometric placement, HP bars for mobs and myself. I want to be able to turn off the visual effects of snow during winter. I want the ability to turn on certain set pieces when i generate a new world. I also would like a hard mode in the game. 

These are some things that i would like added to make the game more fun for me. What makes Mike's request any different? He wants a feature added that would make the game more enjoyable for him. 

I completely disagree with making bosses easier BUT i respect the fact that Mike wants it for his personal enjoyment. At the end of the day we are all just trying to have fun...

wise words 

i couldn't have said it better myself 

 

[BeeClops]

I probably said this in the other topic on the matter, but i don't mind sliders for bosses, it does not affect my gameplay, as long as others enjoy the game more that way i'm fine with it, it sure does not make me more sad than it would make them more happy. I still believe that if you have decent experience all bosses are somewhat fair for single player, but that's my view.

I had more issues with the approach and the refusal to adapt after so much legitimate advice by some people, that's what really... grinded my gears.

 

[FuriousChimera]

How the slider even work though ? It might be working for simpler bosses like Dragonfly or Beequeen, but for Ancient Fuel Weaver, Toadstool and Crab King, once they enter second phase, doesnt really matter how much hp they got, player will lose if they don't learn bosses pattern properly.

[BeeClops]

32 minutes ago, FuriousChimera said:

How the slider even work though ? It might be working for simpler bosses like Dragonfly or Beequeen, but for Ancient Fuel Weaver, Toadstool and Crab King, once they enter second phase, doesnt really matter how much hp they got, player will lose if they don't learn bosses pattern properly.

Yeah it can sure get complicated for all of them, it's not as simple as some make it seem.

However, they don't ever need to tweak those you mentioned, i think most people who complain complain about surface bosses, just the effort it takes to enable fuelweaver and crabking fights, makes it that most people who start those fights are gonna finish them eventually anyway. And makes it that the majority of the playerpool never sees FW or CrabKing, thus will not complain about them.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Silent Echoes said:

 

The thing is that the ideas behind it comes from unknowledge

Killing df doesnt take 200 walls and 18 marble suits

I think the times, once you have learn the fight, are fine for a boss fight. Isnt nothing crazy in terms of farming materials, time of fighting or skill required (srly, dst isnt a skilled game, more like the opposite)

Maybe the very 1st times you will need more material and think that is too grindy. It happend to me too but once you get better at gathering and fighting, the things required arent that much. Is a sand box so having to waste time gathering few things is what makes the game fun or we will all end making fancy bases

Klei, as i said, have made a solo friendly thing with the portal. You can use volt goat jelly or change to wolfga (or both) to slice to half the time to kill a boss. Also we have rollbacks to practise 

As a example i will tell that when i started to fight FW, sometimes, i even need 6 weather pains and arround 3 days fighting which is too grindy but it was my fault for being a total unskilled player (im bad at games) and not having enough experience

Now, after i have kill him many times, i only use arround 1'5 weather pains. If i, somehow, i toggle fw to have half of hp i might kill him easily the 1st times but after that i will find that fight pretty boring and i will not have the feeling of improvement that i have with this game

Also, for those people who play only day  no hounds blablabla. Its okey for them but klei, imo, shouldnt take in account EVERY kind of player because the game will loose a focus. I dont mind having choices, i think they are good, but it takes time and resources

I wouldnt mind if, when we create a world the bosses will have different versions depending of how many players are allowed in the server so if you toggle 1 to play in local them will have X stats and when you toggle 6 players for the server the bosses will have increase stats (df is a joke with many)

But i dont see the need of this because them some people might want having winter but not that cool or summer but without hot, etc and at the end klei will be adding choices for a little minority instead of adding content. Isnt like is impossible to beat bosses with wes...

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Silent Echoes said:

This has been a very interesting read over the last few days.  I agree with Mike. Yep, im going to White Knight for the Antagonist and this is why.

I am a big advocate for playing the game your way. Some people play Day Only, no bosses, no hounds, no conceivable challenge whatsoever. They choose to turn off the things that annoy or kill them. They have no interest in getting better at the game, or learning strats, or working for the victory. They just want to play the way they want to play. And honestly, thats ok. Who are we to judge? So adding a slider to the bosses health seems like a cool idea to me. AS LONG AS THE CHANGES DONT EFFECT MY GAMEPLAY, ITS FINE!

Let people play the way they want. Im also a console player and I understand the need to want more options to personalize my gameplay. PC players have mods to augment the game in so many different ways. Console does not. So I welcome more ways to customize my world. Granted, a sliding HP bar for bosses isn't one i would use, but if enough people desire it why not add it? 

I want the option to use geometric placement, HP bars for mobs and myself. I want to be able to turn off the visual effects of snow during winter. I want the ability to turn on certain set pieces when i generate a new world. I also would like a hard mode in the game. 

These are some things that i would like added to make the game more fun for me. What makes Mike's request any different? He wants a feature added that would make the game more enjoyable for him. 

I completely disagree with making bosses easier BUT i respect the fact that Mike wants it for his personal enjoyment. At the end of the day we are all just trying to have fun...

I think you're trying to put a cute frame around his post but completely miss the point.  Mike isn't saying "the game would be more fun if..." he's saying "these contents are inaccessible / too difficult / impossible" for solo players.  Just check out the OP

On 11/9/2020 at 7:19 PM, Astra100L said:

Hello Guys, this is a little coment about my solo experience in Dst, and about some imbalances within the game. (Sorry for any misspellings, i'am Brazilian :p)

Well, since my battle against Bee Queen and others more powerful bosses, i have noticed that is kinda Impossible some player kill those bosses only playing alone without spending the most of his resources. From that, i just used mods to balance the game.

What i really mean is: please Klei balance the life of the bosses, something like the number of the players in the server or just a option to ajust it as the player wants. 

I know this can be kind of useless for some people, but years have passed and it did not change, a mandatory thing to me.

Well, Thank you for reading my topic

and mike's post

On 11/9/2020 at 7:44 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I’m actually trying to Solo Dragonfly right now and good god this isn’t fun at all.. I’m using Massive Frog Rain, a Pan Flute, Marble Armor, 3 Battle Helms, 2 Battle Spears, a Tentacle Spike, 2 Recruited Pigmens with Battle Helms on their heads- and I still fail miserably.

It makes me angry because I could have this fight over and done with fast with a few extra players just pressing the attack button.. Why can’t DST scale boss health and boss damage based on the amount of players playing?

From what I can tell: This would be a fun new experience for me (the exploding Larvae are something I wish existed everywhere as a common mob in Summer) But the actual FIGHT is just a pure drag... I don’t like it, I can’t beat it... and I don’t want to pretend I’m playing Dark Souls boss fights while playing DST.

People laugh at me for wanting these bosses easier for solo play- but understand this much those of you who criticize I don’t plan to build some Elaborate setup & cheesy tactic to kill this boss, There are OPTIONS to turn this boss completely OFF so it doesn’t spawn but there are not any options to make it more accessible for Solo players to enjoy.

Its rather Dumb: Without gathering a group of players to go fight it..

I can either A: Build some huge unnecessary setup, B: Turn off the boss completely or C: Ignore that content exists & miss out on enjoying it.

So TL:DR- I agree with the OP, I would actually like to be able to beat this dang Dragonfly for once.. 

Notice how they continue to fall back on "I can't do this" as motive?  They aren't asking for it to be fun, they are asking for it to be easy.  If they were actually making simple posts about "Hey, I spend 6-8 days fighting toadstool, that's a long time to repeat the same few patterns, why don't we get his health cut down some so I don't have to call out sick from work to take this guy out?" then what you said would make sense.  But that's not what they're saying.

In spite of the fact that there are several ways to deal with these bosses, both through combat and not, utilizing completely mod-free, totally beatable even on console methods, they are asking for nerfs.

---------------------------------------------------

If they simply posted this in the suggestions and feedback saying "I think these bosses would be really fun if they only had 3000 health" they would get little to no push back at all.  They would get little to no attention in any way because most people wouldn't care.  Its only their premise claiming they are impossible, and wanting nerfs as a solution that they get any push back at all - starting with people putting forth the methods to actually take these bosses out solo - trying to help them out - and only after said help is refused, with them doubling down on the "impossible" nature of the fight in spite of every person who is replying being able to solo these bosses handily, things get toxic.

--------------------------------------------------

Also as far as fun goes - as a solo player I find these bosses very fun.  A big reason is because of the varied tactics.  Building walls, using weather pains or pan flutes, ice staves, other mobs, ect is all fun to me.  When I came to the forums and complained about Toad solo I was wrong.  As I said before the big difference beween me and them is that I learned from the advice others gave me rather than doubling down on faulting the game for my own incompetence.  I learned to use weather pains, glass axes, or woodie to deal with sporecaps so I could get damage dealt to the boss.  I didn't want to do these things, at first, but now I'm enjoying it.  And miraculously nothing in the game needed to be changed.  Inventory management is part of the game, switching between tools as you fight, prepping enough tools before you fight, and building some helpful structures like a fridge nearby.  If people aren't doing these things the problem isn't the boss, the problem is them.  They gotta learn the skills of the game if they want to play at this tier.

I guess I could also throw out this suggestion - join a dst fb group or discord server and just get some decently competent player to come join you for an hour or so.  I've helped several people glomp dfly or bee queen in their worlds.  Networking is not impossible either!  In short, the ways are there!  Literally anyone can beat these guys if they want to, one way or another.

[Mike23Ua]

14 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

If easy to obtain it loses its value. Its a prize for overcoming a challenge.

Also, Its a qol structure that makes not waste resources in long term worlds

Also, having this curve of progression makes the game be fun for longer.

With This part- you Speak 100% Truth, but Who are You or I to judge what other players outside of ourselves find to be fun?

Speaking only for Dragonfly (because I have yet to attempt any others) My perspective is that It’s content that’s in the game: That in its current form- Players have the option to toggle more or less of and off or on. Its content that those players have to either learn to trick/overcome when playing with less players then intended, or Turn off and ignore it exists.

But the reward for killing this Particular boss is a Structure that provides infinite free light, and infinite free Warmth without needing to even occasionally refill it each season with Dragonfly Gems (which is something I would expect on a harder difficulty mode..)

It is a very Newbie friendly reward- because from my personal view point it’s a structure I’ve never had till yesterday, didn’t even know it existed or well rather- What it actually did** and something I’ve lived Without for all this time.

I finally UNDERSTAND now why when joining a Multiplayer server why those people always try to rush to beat (but mostly fail..) Dragonfly before Winter arrives- Because their reward in doing so is a Sisturn like Structure that makes the challenges of Winter completely obsolete just by standing beside it.

But again I must ask- Who are We to say what other players find fun/boring? (I’m asking this in a calm peaceful non-angry just genuinely curious way by the way..typing words online can be misinterpreted, & it gets pretty confusing.. so I felt I should explain that I’m not arguing/complaining but rather simply asking politely)

Players can turn off Winter altogether so they play in Autumn only worlds, they can turn off hound wave attacks and several seasonal bosses- Sure that might sound Boring to You..

But for some people it’s their form of entertainment with the game they bought, and ultimately that’s what’s most important to Klei: Are the people who buy their product actually getting their full entertainments worth out of it?

I can’t speak for anyone other then myself- but my particular reasoning for wanting to kill dragonfly in the first place was to simply be able to craft the Broodling pet I bought when it became available for Hallowed Nights 2020, But to ONLY want to kill D-Fly for that reason alone (and to also knock it off my Xbox live achievement list) The fight required tons of armor, healing supplies, walls, and for me to hit her over 400 times with a Hambat.

Not my personal idea of fun: But I feel that I should maybe try to explain why, My worlds as I’m sure you already know are already set to Random Season starts & Random Season Lengths, But Also I have hound waves set to be larger and happen more often, And IF Klei decides to add additional Random options to let me toggle around with like Random Day length, the start of that Particular Day would be completely random as well- Meaning Day 1 could end up being 50% Morning, 35% Dusk, 15% Night.. and then at the start of Day 2- You could end up with 0% Morning, 0% Dusk, 100% Night.

I’ve also wanted a toggle for the absolute longest of time that forces players to heal using only the healing tab of items rather then just being able to eat/sleep to restore Health Points.

And If I had all that random Mad Unpredictable Chaos going on in my world- I most defiantly Do Not wish or desire to fight a high health, high resource/armor set up boss that’s going to take me over 400 hits to kill while also trying to deal with that worlds Mad Unpredictable Chaos settings.

As I previously said in the Thanks Thread: Anything that takes a hammer to an otherwise repetitive gameplay cycle & breaks away from the Meta-Way to play is content that I am 100% on board for.

Now rather or not I get more control over my worlds and how unpredictable they can become isn’t really my point to this post, my point here in Dragonfly’s case: is its content that is already in the game & when killed rewards the players an item that makes both darkness & freezing near impossible.

Which Means: Those players who turn Winter OFF & Night OFF might would actually get to finally enjoy that content if Killing the Boss that made surviving those challenges were a little easier to kill.

And personally- I don’t think it should matter if it takes 400 hits with a Hambat &!a sea of walls & healing, or 80 hits with a Tentacle Spike & the game being programmed to seal off lava pools when less players are near, the concern here isn’t how easy or how hard content is or should be 

(That part is entirely up to your own personal opinion...)

the Concern here should be that is it fun? Is it exciting? Is it content players are actively enjoying without feeling cheesy or tedious?

My conclusion here is that it’s content in Klei’s game, that “should” Klei choose to tweak or provide more options for.. would allow more players who currently can’t enjoy that content to experience & maybe even end up enjoying it.

The only concern I genuinely have about it actually isn’t how easy or how hard it is or that I feel it personally should be.. But rather-how much of a time, resource and development cost sink it would end up becoming on Klei to make that content more accessible to a broader audience.

I can’t speak on Klei’s behalf- but I would kinda like to think that reworking content that already exists would be a lot easier to do then adding new content altogether.

I also personally think that if players were able to recruit a follower or even A.I Controlled survivor characters, and Equip them with Head, Body and Weapon shots and then Command them to fight alongside you that things like Not being able to do enough damage to Dragonfly quickly enough as a solo player to get her to drop her scales would no longer be a problem.

I guess you can even say that’s Exactly WHY I choose to Main Wendy... I Don’t See Abigail as this OP Beast that needs to be nerfed like some people suggest- I Actually See Abigail as behaving more like that Player Two I don’t have, I can Heal Her, I can Equip Her in more Armor.. and I Can give her potions to make her even stronger, and in return- She can help me kill things & provide me with light when I keep her within good health.

Which would literally be no different from having a secondary Wigfrid Supplying my Wigfrid with a torchlit assist while I tank a mountain of Spiders in the darkness.

In fact: I believe that being able to recruit A.I. Controlled survivors might actually make ALOT of the game more accessible to Solo Players.. because THEN people could get that Abigail petal Bestowment assist without actually needing a Human Wendy player in their game with them at all.

Obviously there would be a TON of flaws and concerns with that suggestion they wouldn’t help build your base, they would probably only be able to do basic stuff like follow you around/ use their signature abilities, they would likely get in your way and become annoying... but on the Surface- Wortox/Webber would be able to recruit an A.I. follower (because they can’t recruit Pigmen) You would be able to heal your A.I. Follower, give them head slot, body slot & weapon slot items, Which also includes Torches and Lanterns so you can tank Dragonfly while they hold your light source and Stay out of battle, or when equipped with a weapon help assist you in said battle.

Its NOT the best idea.. obviously there’s a billion things that could go wrong with a suggestion like that- but it’s the only thing I could come up with besides lowering the health/ Scale dropping threshold requirements for fighting Dragonfly.

Im trying to keep all my posts on topic- so rather then discussing my strategies or your strategies or how the game works now, I’m trying to provide my input on how I feel the game could be improved for Solo Players, which is the topic of the thread.. so I feel like everything I’ve said here while crazy, and 250% unlikely to ever be legitimately considered for the game.. is still on-topic, I sincerely do not wish to be issued more warnings for being off topic and I would hate to be the reason a new forum members topic ended up being locked- So I hope Mr JoeW or other forum Admins finds this post suitable and On-Topic, If it’s not please inform me and I will remove it as soon as I possibly can.

Thank You.

[Notecja]

I want bosses from solo DS to have 10k+ hp. I was very disappointed when I killed poor Ancient Herald in no time with Woodie during Aporcalypse, while I get used to long fights with Bee Queen...

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, Notecja said:

I want bosses from solo DS to have 10k+ hp. I was very disappointed when I killed poor Ancient Herald in no time with Woodie during Aporcalypse, while I get used to long fights with Bee Queen...

if you play on pc is easy to change it but you are right

is so boring when you already had prepare for every season and the only preparation left is bosses but can killed with a single dark sword when they are optional bosses...

takes more time to kill a clockwork in dst than a quacken in sw

[viberr]

17 minutes ago, Notecja said:

I want bosses from solo DS to have 10k+ hp. I was very disappointed when I killed poor Ancient Herald in no time with Woodie during Aporcalypse, while I get used to long fights with Bee Queen...

me too 

[MondayNight]

DS had the "an uncompromising wilderness survival" tag-line. While DST has toned it down a bit with a first compromise - having other people helping you on your world (and then more comfortable reviving options, not bringing anymore the perma-death and instant world-lose instances of DS), is still a somewhat DS2. And, appropriately so, balanced around 6 people parties - aka maximum players number allowed by default on personal servers to still be a so-and-so "uncompromising wilderness survival" (I also wanna bring to mind DST, as opposed to DS, has 2x HP mobs plus Armor doesn't stack-up, so is not purely "uncompromising" downhill, however a de facto more nuanced picture). At end-of-day DST is a multiplayer per its "Together" title. Sure you can go at it in solo experiences and experiments, yet you should concede in current iteration that's an endeavor you take upon yourself willingly, a hard one if you don't have the precise know-how; an endeavor that should usually take up to 6 (moderately knowledgeable) people to decently overcome. And yes, there are ways to go at these solo runs not purely summarizing towards combat-kiting with weapon in hand, certain armor and healing. Ways people touched upon previous posts regarding DF, BQ etc. Grindy ones, of course, but that's the price to pay fo not being good and/or willing enough to solo kite in direct combat different attack-pattern bosses/mobs.

I understand KLei might cater to casual and base-building crowds centered more on game's Sandbox aspect, still I also understand that the Survival aisle of this multiplayer kinda lags behind by this point in DST's life. Toning down further mentioned Survival facet by ditching its original balance around 6 people parties undermines even more the "together" multiplayer aspect. I for one would not desire any "nerf this raid boss because reasons" option just so the by-now proverbial "participation trophy generation" (which isn't able/inclined to learn some simple mechanics and practice them enough to prevail something that already can by-pass direct combat) gets one more leg-up. A personal view-point regarding this subject in relation to "uncompromising wilderness survival" idea - take it or leave it. Likewise a hard "No, ty!" to a theoretical "have same boss loot drop for each member of party that took it down akin Terraria-for-example" option: on premise of current system teaching people priorities, cooperation, concession and mindfulness for "playing like a team and taking care of team-mates at one's expense". More so as DST doesn't have the loot plethora Terraria has.

[Silent Echoes]

As a gamer, I love self improvement, especially in DST. This game is truly about the skill of the player. Knowledge and skill will take you a long way. Personal player progression is something many of us live for. The thrill of defeating a challenge that was once insurmountable, the rush of overcoming an obstacle that seemed impossible. Learning how to past the next test through pain, practice, and grind, and even strategy. This is fun for me, and I will dare say this is fun for lots of people. 

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Also as far as fun goes - as a solo player I find these bosses very fun.

And im glad you do find them fun now. But everyone isnt going to have your journey, everyone isnt going to have your skill level, your level of commitment, your growth process, your personal realization and need of self improvement. Because the truth is, all gamers arent created the equal. Some people dont care about personal growth, dont ever want to get better or improve, and just want all the rewards with little effort. They dont care about the challenge. I personally disagree with that philosophy, but i respect those who have it.

 

Mike doesn't want to put in the time that most others have and learn how to overcome these obstacles, and he has literally shut down every strat known to man about killing Dragonfly and this has definitely lead to the mess of a thread we are currently in. People have different playstyles, different skill sets, different goals, and different definitions of fun.  

If there are enough people who want an easier DST, whats wrong with that?

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

They aren't asking for it to be fun, they are asking for it to be easy. 

If there are enough people who want an easier DST, whats wrong with that? Does that bother you? Is it because this isnt the original purpose of DST? Does this hurt your gamer pride in some way? 

I still see no problem with asking for AN OPTION to tweak the difficulty/health of the bosses if enough people ask for it. If people want to play in a sunshine and rainbow DST server, live and let live. As long as its not affecting everyone's personal experience, it shouldn't matter. 

 

[Mike23Ua]

Oh no.. I feel your misunderstanding me now, I definitely do not want an easier DST, in fact- I want more options to make it even more challenging but Maybe my idea of what I find to be challenging isn’t spending a ridiculously long amount of time fighting a boss, Regardless of the Strategy used- unless you switch to Wolfgang for 2x Damage or use some special stat boosting food dish that I and probably lots of other players don’t know how to craft then your still going to have to hit Dragonfly 400 times with a Hambat regardless of tactic used.

Now let me explain that I play around with world Gen settings A lot prior to hosting a world so I can make my game as Easy or As Hard as I personally feel like playing it at that specific the time, I’ve played worlds where you have 3 Days of Autumn to prepare and then 24/7 Summer, and for added challenge I disabled Ice for creating the usual Summer defeating gear.

I’ve also played worlds where every season was as short as possible so I can experience every thing the game has to offer but within a 20-50 minute time span. Rather then on Default settings where Winter doesn’t even show up till around day 19 or so.

As of Klei’s QoL updates they added the option to Randomize Seasons and Season Lengths so you can end up having 1 day of Autumn, 50 Days of Winter, 2 days of Summer, 3 more Days of Winter etc.. 

So to summarize that into a TL:DR- my idea of fun isn’t to make DST into any less of an Uncompromising game, my Idea of fun is to be able to experience as much content as I possibly can in however much playtime I may have to play the game within.

And in its current form: Dragonfly is a massive time sink when there should be options that makes it less so.

Its not and never has been about “Make Entire Game Easier” but one could also sit here & argue that every single update Klei does to the game has been doing that Anyway.

As you can see in my 5 minute video with my fight against Dragonfly, I didn’t have a single one of Wigfrids new Stagecraft Songs- And Song Scrolls like Fireproof & Weaponized would have helped tremendously in this fight.

[kuroite]

I realise that this debate would not exist if console command exist for console player.

You dont want to farm all the rock ? c_give("rockwall", 100)

You want extra scale that is locked because you're playing solo ? c_give("dragonflyscale", 3) make it 3, nah no need to thanks me 

Boss is too hard because he has too much HP ? Boom !! ThePlayer.damage(99)

Exploring take too much time like come on, its not fun for me : There you go buddy *woosh* c_multspeed(3.5) (20 when you're moving suspicious marble, we all know its boring)

 

Tweak your world as you want, design your own fun and enjoy the game. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, kuroite said:

I realise that this debate would not exist if console command exist for console player.

You dont want to farm all the rock ? c_give("rockwall", 100)

You want extra scale that is locked because you're playing solo ? c_give("dragonflyscale", 3) make it 3, nah no need to thanks me 

Boss is too hard because he has too much HP ? Boom !! ThePlayer.damage(99)

Exploring take too much time like come on, its not fun for me : There you go buddy *woosh* c_multspeed(3.5) (20 when you're moving suspicious marble, we all know its boring)

 

Tweak your world as you want, design your own fun and enjoy the game. 

then why playing in first plaace

[kuroite]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But for some people it’s their form of entertainment with the game they bought, and ultimately that’s what’s most important to Klei: Are the people who buy their product actually getting their full entertainments worth out of it?

 

[ZTheNecromancer]

15 minutes ago, Silent Echoes said:

If there are enough people who want an easier DST, whats wrong with that? Does that bother you? Is it because this isnt the original purpose of DST? Does this hurt your gamer pride in some way? 

Nah it seems like everyone else expressing their opinions is hurting your pride, there's no real voice of reason here and there certainly isn't supposed to be someone who thinks everyone will agree with their idea.

Well, one third want the game to be harder, the other third wants it to be easier and the other third just likes to complain. So it goes

Back and forth and fro

Back and Forth and fro

Back and forth and fro

and

back and forth and fro.

Klei has to make a compromise and not just cater to one group. So sadly there isn't never going to be a goldilocks feature or update that some jerk on the internet isn't going to complain about. Some people just can't just suck it up and decide keep a thread going for 7 pages. Wearing other players nerves down to a stump. We are tired of it just please stop, you're being quite arrogant on everyone's opinions or even other people here and making wrong assumptions. Again, you're starting to pull us down a hole we just got out of.

Stop pushing it, you're not helping by being toxic.

 

[viberr]

5 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

 

Stop pushing it, you're not helping by being toxic.

 

 

but he isn't being toxic tho they actually seem to be quite nice.and if you don't agree with me you can always ignore them thats always an option 

 

8 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

Nah it seems like everyone else expressing their opinions is hurting your pride, 

well i don't think it is hurting his pride.well it certainly ain't hurting mine 

 

9 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

there's no real voice of reason here

but there is tho?

 

10 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

there certainly isn't supposed to be someone who thinks everyone will agree with their idea.

i think he knows that 

well i keep saying it but i don't really know where this thread is gonna go from here but everyone try to remain civil and calm.don't be toxic

hope you all have a wonderful day or night wherever you are in the world