In defense of the macabre creature designs from the "Return of Them" series of updates.

[Primalflower]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes correct but Klei would have to update this filter to be compatible with every even slightly questionable skin/belonging that they decide to release.

Which in the end.. would it be a good use of resources and development time to try and censor all the skins they release that can be seen as disturbing to some?

it'd be like 5 reskins of which all could probably just be drawn over the existing skin, and then 1 or 2 every once in a blue moon that like a skull is used in a skin. The idea of a filter for these kinds of things being a poor use of klei resources is a really bad excuse and you guys should really stop using it.

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

it'd be like 5 reskins of which all could probably just be drawn over the existing skin, and then 1 or 2 every once in a blue moon than like a skull is used in a skin. The idea of a filter for these kinds of things being a poor use of klei resources is a really bad excuse and you guys should really stop using it.

Yeah... I’m just going to stop you right there and invite you into my game save now, where my friend who is still trying to learn the game has probably at least 90 different skeletons of their failed adventures within only a few tiles away from the florid Postern.

WARLY USES THESE BONES IN COOKING RECIPES.

Better yet play the game as Wurt- what I am assuming is the youngest character in the DST game cast (arguable that Wormwood might be younger) but WURT still walks around seeing the decapitated heads of her own kind hanging from a stick- HEADS 

that let me say.. if you happen to die and become a ghost (it happens) you can HAUNT these heads on sticks to animate them back to life breifly.

My point is: If we start censoring DST now, Klei may as well just pull the entire franchise from existence like Warbucks.

[Primalflower]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah... I’m just going to stop you right there and invite you into my game save now, where my friend who is still trying to learn the game has probably at least 90 different skeletons of their failed adventures within only a few tiles away from the florid Postern.

WARLY USES THESE BONES IN COOKING RECIPES.

Better yet play the game as Wurt- what I am assuming is the youngest character in the DST game cast (arguable that Wormwood might be younger) but WURT still walks around seeing the decapitated heads of her own kind hanging from a stick- HEADS 

that let me say.. if you happen to die and become a ghost (it happens) you can HAUNT these heads on sticks to animate them back to life breifly.

My point is: If we start censoring DST now, Klei may as well just pull the entire franchise from existence like Warbucks.

you focus on me saying bones rather than mutated pengull or horror hound, opting to use a slippery slope argument, rather than actually arguing what i was actually trying to say about how little klei would have to do to actually implement this accessibility feature and every once in a while update it to include x or y skin

[ExtollerOfTrolls]

26 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

it'd be like 5 reskins of which all could probably just be drawn over the existing skin, and then 1 or 2 every once in a blue moon that like a skull is used in a skin. The idea of a filter for these kinds of things being a poor use of klei resources is a really bad excuse and you guys should really stop using it.

I think the point Mike is trying to make is that, Klei would have to reskin something every time the vocal minority found them upsetting, which, let's be real, in a game that tens of thousands of people play, uh... something is gonna upset someone somewhere. Maybe they're too sensitive, maybe they have an actual phobia, but you don't stop production of a creation just because a small percentage of people can't enjoy it. You move on and ignore them, because while Klei is awesome, they are still a company producing media for thousands of consumers, and they cannot pander to each individual customer (not that any content creator should have to do that). If they stopped production every time someone was disturbed by their content, their updates would crash to a halt.

The people who are making the mods are doing good work, helping people out with phobias. But now you are asking that Klei, the creators themselves, takes time away from updates, which the majority of people enjoy in their entirety, for the minority who cannot handle the scary imagery.

So, yeah, actually, it is a poor use of resources, because if it was the majority of their fans expressing unhappiness at it, maybe there would be a reason to change it, but because most fans are actually quite pleased, and only a few people do not want it, the majority suffers for the pandering of the few who refuse to use the solutions presented to them.

[Primalflower]

3 minutes ago, ExtollerOfTrolls said:

I think the point Mike is trying to make is that, Klei would have to reskin something every time the vocal minority found them upsetting, which, let's be real, in a game that tens of thousands of people play, uh... something is gonna upset someone somewhere. Maybe they're too sensitive, maybe they have an actual phobia, but you don't stop production of a creation just because a small percentage of people can't enjoy it. You move on and ignore them, because while Klei is awesome, they are still a company producing media for thousands of consumers, and they cannot pander to each individual customer (not that any content creator should have to do that). If they stopped production every time someone was disturbed by their content, their updates would crash to a halt.

The people who are making the mods are doing good work, helping people out with phobias. But now you are asking that Klei, the creators themselves, takes time away from updates, which the majority of people enjoy in their entirety, for the minority who cannot handle the scary imagery.

So, yeah, actually, it is a poor use of resources, because if it was the majority of their fans expressing unhappiness at it, maybe there would be a reason to change it, but because most fans are actually quite pleased, and only a few people do not like it, the majority suffers for the pandering of the few.

Again...this is a slippery slope argument that hinges on the idea that the moment that klei decides that x or y thing should be filtered out of gameplay, instantly they will greenlight each and every little thing that might creep people out, when i have extreme doubts that something like that would happen. It's not a poor use of resources to put in one option and update it every half a year if that to help a bunch of people's experience with the game

[Zeklo]

Well, I lost all my previous posts' progress so here's a non-quoted tldr:

- Development time will be used to introduce any feature, this included. Is there a big enough need for this feature? I don't have the data to answer that, but no doubt resources will be used.

- I don't see skins being a huge issue at all. Unlike mobs/gameplay elements they can simply show as default for those with the setting.

- How far would this kind of setting go? I'm not sure, I personally have no issue with anything, in fact I love this stuff. The more configurable the better I guess.

- I don't agree with the idea of dropping a game due to a recent addition that disturbs you. People have been playing this game for years.

- There are currently non-official means of getting around this, namely mods (for PC). An official fix would only be urgent for something like console.

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Unfortunatelly this seems to be true.

And I'm not saying that cuz all updates ever since were focused on the ocean. I like the ocean being more lively.

Let's compare 'Moon''s mutations on original 3 mobs and the 2 'new' ones (if few-months-old can be considered new)

Spiders, hounds and pengulls all show different body horror: mangled bodies, visible guts, unnatural growths.

Crab King.... is big.

Lunar Wobster.... is glass.

So yeah... I doubt that that sudden change in lunar mutations wasn't influenced by something.

Could be. For now I prefer to wait a bit more to see what next updates will bring about.

 

Because in Crab King's case one can argue first-stages "Moon" corruption via "enlightenment" on a (partially) sapient, living being; also he doesn't actually dwell on Lunar Isles. He may be bigger by way of sexual dimorphism among its specie, and clearly retained some intelligence as shown by him trying to catch his broken shell bits in defeat animation (also doing magic and repairing his shell during fight). He is possibly controlled by "Moon" entity in various degrees to do its bidding.

As for small Lunar Wobsters, maybe. Yet again, one can argue that "Moon" reanimating abilities may vary from specie to specie, less apparent if they're more rudimentary (shellfish as opposed to mammals/birds).

 

Lunar islands, as originally shown, bear the marks of death (fish skeletons) and desolation (pretty barren - as it's still a moon). Its influence seems to be somehow killing and reanimating animals, mutating plants into animal-like creatures. Lunar islands atmosphere is beautifully haunting, an alluring apprehension. Let's hope next update, "Forbidden Knowledge", will expand on these in same vein.

Else one can conclude KLei chose the safe route, the one not offending any sensibilities by ditching initial direction and also saving money in the process (as programming additional "sensibility filters" to mask Horror Mobs - present and hypothetically future ones - plus drawing alternative art when said filters are "on" would financially strain them further, it's rhetorical).

[Wardin25]

Do people actually complain the creatures are too bizarre?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Lbphero said:

The idea of a filter for these kinds of things being a poor use of klei resources is a really bad excuse and you guys should really stop using it

time doing it time that cant be used in other things. Bad excuse is to use "i get stressed by this because of a low % thing" in a game that gives stress by default

[Primalflower]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

time doing it time that cant be used in other things. Bad excuse is to use "i get stressed by this because of a low % thing" in a game that gives stress by default

im sure klei will miss the whopping 2 seconds they take to implement such a filter

[TheKingDedede]

42 minutes ago, Wardin25 said:

Do people actually complain the creatures are too bizarre?

This was the main thread that had brought up this issue: 

 

 

[Zhuzha]

I have apiphobia (fear of bees). Klei should prioritize me over thousands of other players who don't have it and take time off developing actually important content and add a visual filter that puts a big black "Censored" bar atop of every bee-related mob and item. I know I can turn off bees in game settings, but I want to experience the content that I know will disturb me, for some reason.

And there totally shouldn't be anything spooky in a game that is described as the sequel/expansion to an "uncompromising wilderness survival game [...] full of strange creatures, dangers, and surprises.

Hashtagbeecancelled

[Mike23Ua]

Guys honestly, I’m not trying to argue if there’s a valid way to add a filter without it taking away colossal time resources could be spent elsewhere then by all means do it, if it makes the game more comfortable to those players-

But at the exact same time: Should the Scarecrow Segments (of Which I won’t spoil due to how awesome they were) from the Batman Arkham games be removed because that type of horror feels uncomfortable to you? There’s no censor for Scarecrows sections because without those fully intact the “fear factor” isn’t there..

I think the general purpose of an unusually disturbing mob is to well be unsettling and make you fearful of what the heck is going on here.. 

If they made them look cutesy, then you wouldn’t get that feeling of dread of “holy crap there’s an undead Penguin chasing me.” What in the world have I stepped into?

Minecraft doesn’t Censor the NetherRealm, why should Klei build a filter to censor their Areas of the game genuinely meant to bring players an uneasy feeling?

Even if they added a censor for the Lunar mobs, you still have to take into account all the skins and belongings other players might be using.. which would need to be updated every time a new odd skin collection was released to be compatible with this feature.

and THEN you run into yet another concern I bet you guys didn’t take into account- What if there WAS a filter to filter out this content that a handful of people find disturbing? And what if that filter also covered skins and belongings?

Problem solved everyone’s happy right? Not exactly.. what if the filter actually ended up censoring skins that you (the person wanting censors) actually LIKE and DONT want censored?

Klei can’t filter every single individual skin can they?? so the filter has to cover all #SpookyStuffs..

So then you have to choose between censoring the mobs you find disturbing as well as some skins from that set you may not find so disturbing, Or using those skins and not censoring the mobs you dislike to use those skins.

Then theres Me: The guy sitting here thinking that unless the content of Lunar Island becomes main stream content (Like some world altering event that turns the entire world lunar..) then all you have to do is NOT go to that island-

Its roughly the equivalent of playing an MMO game like Skyrim and on your map you have a marker for a place called Rainbow Bouncey house fun time, and Another one called Killer Clowns Carnival of Horrors.

If Klei changed the name of this island to have a big warning sign as you enter it Warning: You are now entering HORROR ISLAND.

Then common sense would tell me that if I dislike that type of horror that I’m not going to go sailing onto that island right? 
they could add Another Island with a different not so horrifying theme and I’ll go to cotton candy gumball island instead.

In real life: If I am horrified of heights (and I am) then do you think I’m going to ride the largest freaking roller coaster in an amusement park? Heck no... I’m staying far the frick away from it! 

 

[minespatch]

52 minutes ago, Zhuzha said:

Hashtagbeecancelled

#walterposting

[me real life]

[WebberMain]

1 minute ago, Sunset Skye said:

Just don ´t.Please,don´t.

8 hours ago, Lbphero said:

you focus on me saying bones rather than mutated pengull or horror hound, opting to use a slippery slope argument, rather than actually arguing what i was actually trying to say about how little klei would have to do to actually implement this accessibility feature and every once in a while update it to include x or y skin

Saying that something is a logical fallacy does not make the argument invalid

[Zeklo]

3 hours ago, Zhuzha said:

I have apiphobia (fear of bees). Klei should prioritize me over thousands of other players who don't have it and take time off developing actually important content and add a visual filter that puts a big black "Censored" bar atop of every bee-related mob and item.

There are plenty of non-passive aggressive ways to state your argument(?). It's actually difficult to tell if you are simply making fun of people or if you actually have this phobia. I haven't heard a huge outcry against the [regular] spiders due to how they're stylized, so I'm genuinely curious if your situation with the bees is more than just a means of mocking.

3 hours ago, Zhuzha said:

I know I can turn off bees in game settings, but I want to experience the content that I know will disturb me, for some reason.

Quite a simple answer in reality. Although not as nearly utilized as silk, stingers still prove useful for boat patches & if you're playing Wendy or Wormwood. Honey isn't all too ground-shaking but does allow for some niche food items (and poultices, but those are eh). The real kicker here would be the Bee Queen loot which are HUGE. Bundling wraps are everyone's favorite, jelly beans are really spiffy in a pinch, and the hat itself ain't too bad. Now granted all these can be obtained from Klaus—which can turn out to be easier or harder depending on your opinion—but it's a drastic change of acquiring. Plus it's a shame to lose out on a boss fight regardless, even if it's a minion one.

With all that said, the mutant creatures don't currently provide anything particular outside of an interesting experience—which is frankly a reason in itself. If you're content with just removing a portion of the game that is completely a-o-k. In the same way, those who want to dip their toes into content are entirely free to advocate for it. Doesn't mean there'll be enough of a reason for Klei to ultimately do it.

I know I'd be incredibly bummed in something got added that I had a genuine aversion too. Of course I'd want to experience some variation of the new stuff. Don't Starve is an absolute fav of mine, so naturally I want other people to be able to do the same. 

==============================================================================

The point I'm trying to make here is the arguments in this thread seems to come down to:

"I don't want accessibility features added because:"

- If Klei helps you, I get less.
A bit selfish, but I understand the sentiment.
- There are mods for this.
This is true, only console suffers here.
- Just disable it.
It's an makeshift workaround, but doesn't need to be the only option.
People lose out on valuable content this way.
- Your problem isn't real.
The main 'argument' in this thread, and the biggest reason I spoke up.
Hopefully this has been thoroughly cleared up for everyone.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I think that censoring mobs related to phobias isnt a good idea because you can deal with that phobia in a safe and controlled place like a videogame is

I have fear to highs and i really like when a game gives me that feeling even if i start to feel bad. Is impresive that a videogame or film or even a book could make you feel that huge irrational feeling and giving the opportunity to fight it with no harm to you real body

Or we can make klei to waste resources to cover every cartoon that can spook us making the game even a more "conford place" (it can be already a adictive confort place with all of his map editing removing dangers)

Art  is supose to share sensations, if you have a hard feeling with a cartoon, that should excite you instead of cry for changes. Is a hard feeling with something unreal, take the opportunity

 

8 hours ago, Zhuzha said:

but I want to experience the content that I know will disturb me, for some reason.

This

12 hours ago, Lbphero said:

im sure klei will miss the whopping 2 seconds they take to implement such a filter

Sure, programming is magic. You move your fingers, say the magical words and you obtain a new desing, new code for that sprite, a place in some menu to put that option, etc

You have crap into programmers and drawers work.

If is that easy make your own mod

Also, the people who complain plays the game with full zoom in? Because when i fought these mobs i couldnt stop to watch the details...

[Stardust42]

17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I think that censoring mobs related to phobias isnt a good idea because you can deal with that phobia in a safe and controlled place like a videogame is

I have fear to highs and i really like when a game gives me that feeling even if i start to feel bad. Is impresive that a videogame or film or even a book could make you feel that huge irrational feeling and giving the opportunity to fight it with no harm to you real body

Or we can make klei to waste resources to cover every cartoon that can spook us making the game even a more "conford place" (it can be already a adictive confort place with all of his map editing removing dangers)

Art  is supose to share sensations, if you have a hard feeling with a cartook that should excite you instead of cry for changes. Is a hard feeling with something unreal, take the opportunity

 

This

Sure, programming is magic. You move your fingers, say the magical words and you obtein a new desing, new code for that sprite, a place in some menu to put that option, etc

You have crap into programmers and drawers work.

If is that easy make your own mod

Also, the people who complain plays the game with full zoom in? Because when i fought these mobs i couldnt stop to watch the details...

That needed to be said, thanks.

[Zhuzha]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

There are plenty of non-passive aggressive ways to state your argument(?). It's actually difficult to tell if you are simply making fun of people or if you actually have this phobia. I haven't heard a huge outcry against the [regular] spiders due to how they're stylized, so I'm genuinely curious if your situation with the bees is more than just a means of mocking.

I do genuinely have a phobia of bees, but only the real life ones. Seeing a bee on a screen doesn't actually spook me, unless it's a photo or a video of a real one. Hell, one of my favourite plasmids in "Bioshock" is the one that turns your hand into a beehive. But I bet there are people with a more severe version of the same phobia that are disturbed even by cartoony bees and therefore would be discouraged to play a game they would otherwise enjoy.

 

2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Quite a simple answer in reality. Although not as nearly utilized as silk, stingers still prove useful for boat patches & if you're playing Wendy or Wormwood. Honey isn't all too ground-shaking but does allow for some niche food items (and poultices, but those are eh). The real kicker here would be the Bee Queen loot which are HUGE. Bundling wraps are everyone's favorite, jelly beans are really spiffy in a pinch, and the hat itself ain't too bad. Now granted all these can be obtained from Klaus—which can turn out to be easier or harder depending on your opinion—but it's a drastic change of acquiring. Plus it's a shame to lose out on a boss fight regardless, even if it's a minion one.

Bee Queen's loot, sweet as it may be, is completely optional. You can play the game and enjoy it just fine without ever fighting her. Lunar Islands are optional as well. You decide whether to engage with them.

3 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I know I'd be incredibly bummed in something got added that I had a genuine aversion too. Of course I'd want to experience some variation of the new stuff. Don't Starve is an absolute fav of mine, so naturally I want other people to be able to do the same.

But where do we stop? There are hundreds of thousands DST players, each one of them has their own fears and hang-ups. What if a portion of them is extremely arachnophobic but still want to experience every single spider-related piece of content? What about people with fear of caves? Or sea creatures, deep water and drowning? Should we just add some sort of Pyrovision-style filter that would allow even people with the most delicate constitution to experience the game fully? And adding a filter only to Horror Hounds and Moonrock Pengulls would inevitably raise questions, like why only they get a special treatment, why other scary mobs are left as they are?

Besides, the thing is, not everything is going to be 100% made for everyone.  I am easily startled and I feel uneasy playing with strangers (I almost always play DST alone), therefore I generally stay away from horror and multiplayer-only games. Sure, this means I miss tons of great games, but that's life.

4 hours ago, Zeklo said:

accessibility features

To me this doesn't seem like a correct term to refer to the features people suggest. To me accessibility feature is something that gives players ability to experience the game, as the devs intended it, despite their physical limitations or language barrier. Toning down spooky elements, while technically opening the game to the wider audience, betrays its core design. The "Don't Starve" series has always had a dark undercurrent to it, neutering it would be like removing portals from "Portal" because some people get motion sickness easily.

[AlternateMew]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

If Klei changed the name of this island to have a big warning sign as you enter it Warning: You are now entering HORROR ISLAND.

They kind of do. When you jump off the boat, you get this weird filter and your sanity meter changes and suddenly things are all DIFFERENT. If someone doesn't see that as a warning sign, they don't know how to read obvious warning signs.

On the skins, something you said earlier actually prompted a solution. In the collection menus, have a an on/off toggle option. For ALL the skins. Have it work like a clientside mod. For example, red hounds are dangerous and kind of subtle. So I play with Hellish Hellhounds from Hell. While you see this:

I see this:

Easier to see. So that, but in reverse. Have an option for every skin equally. A clientside "Show this as unskinned, please" toggle.

14 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

This was the main thread that had brought up this issue:

Wow. That thread made me feel pretty upset. But not for the reasons they want. No, that thread just reminded me how messed up this world is. We live in a world where the same exact people who undoubtedly celebrate major holidays by joyfully tearing apart the charred, headless corpse of an innocent... can't handle seeing a cartoon penguin's cartoon intestines? This is reality. This is the world that actually exists. I can't read through that entire thread because I need to go into my 'forget the world is like this' box for a bit.

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, AlternateMew said:

who undoubtedly celebrate major holidays by joyfully tearing apart the charred, headless corpse of an innocent...

I'm generally on your side but what is that

[ArubaroBeefalo]

22 minutes ago, Well-met said:

I'm generally on your side but what is that

yisus

[AlternateMew]

24 minutes ago, Well-met said:

I'm generally on your side but what is that

Usually one of these, but like, dead and unrecognizable.

Spoiler

Hence why I ought to go back into my box for a little and pretend reality isn't like that for a bit to get some real life sanity back. I can laugh and enjoy the morbid when it's a piece of fiction. But it dumbfounds me that people can enjoy equally disturbing stuff irl then complain about it in a video game.

 

I won't go further there. Continue with the creepy pengulls and stuff, I gotta go check out the wormwood skin because I had no idea and now I gotta see it.

And yeah, on the skins, they have the potential universal solution option of just adding a toggle to every skin clietside to show default if it's toggled off. We can already see (most) all the skins we don't have, so teh only question is how feasible that would be on the back end. That would be up to KLei to determine if that's a quick easy thing to add to the code or if it just wouldn't work nicely with how things are managed.

If it's feasible, there's your solution, and they could go as crazy as they want with skins. And if, say, you just really don't like the design of that particular garland, because man what a stupid design or any silly or serious reason, just toggle off and suddenly you see default. Problem solved!

[KeshS]

I don't want to be this guy, but when the idea of what should be implemented in the upcoming updates, people generally don't think about others struggles. I've implemented the graphical option in regards to the post about an individual getting seizures because of the end is nigh and only a few people voted for that.

In the end suprisingly people want something that they want to have first. Unless someone gets a heart attack from seeing a spider, nothing is going to change. I'll link the original poll as well.