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In defense of the macabre creature designs from the "Return of Them" series of updates.


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6 minutes ago, Monkey Cups said:

That is not even a remotely similar thing.

What exactly is the issue here? You don't want to miss out on content, okay. But if said content is triggering/uncomfortable/et cetera and you KNOW THIS...then why do you want that particular content? What, exactly, do you miss out on by not going to the lunar island during a hound wave/in winter?

Pick one. You either can handle it, or you can't. And if you can't then why do you want to see it so badly? I don't get it.

You underestimate the human desire for the forbidden.They know they can´t handle it,but they want it anyway.

Anyway,you are stating some facts right there,and i totally agree with you,

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From what I could take, first Return of Them update that introduced Moon Archipelago with its mobs and mechanics proposed an interesting premise: instead of having the classic duality in storytelling - a Good vs Evil theme, we got a battleground between 2 Evils. 1 from below Constant, The Nightmare Creatures and their implied shadowy God-Entity (the Eye with dark tentacles coming through Ancient Gateway in murals), more direct and larger in influence - and 1 from above, emergent, the "Moon" entity (as is referred in quotations), when a piece of what we perceive as a celestial body broke and felt to Constant land, with its Gestalt manifestations/minions whispering sweet forbidden knowledge lies into our Survivors feeble minds (hence the implication Moon is actually some giant Egg Shell harboring a cosmic horror inside - more theoretical delving into Lovecraftian eldritch terror-god undertones for DS/T). Both mentioned evils have mutagenic properties: while the below-one can affect living beings over prolonged exposure via "shadowifiacion" (Ancient Bug People shedding their carapaces and becoming Shadow Creatures in the end), the above-one seems to target dead beings, making deceased animals into horrid zombie-like variants (the "twisted reanimation" trope). Classically we have Underworld associated with death and decay, while DST's current implied lore partially inverses this aspect to a degree. (Also it seems plants are affected differently: Nightmare Fuel exposure looks like to be overgrowing them - Lichens and Lichen/"Mucus" Pillars; while "Moon" energies morph plants into animal-like hybrids - Carrots-Carrats, Dragon Fruit-Saladmander)

Thus initial implication from looking at Horror Hounds, Moonrock Pengulls and Shattered Spiders (coming out of a partially reanimated and mineralized Spider Queen carcass) was more mutagenic modifications on Constant mobs in future in tune with a deeper Lovecraftian eldritch horror approach. A back-to-the-source view if one may. An update thematically going to the roots of DS and upping everything in said department. A white mist creeping over Constant's mainland, bringing cosmic monstrosities and mind-body plagues with its lying Gestalt whispers. And to myself this premise sounded quite exciting as a horror fan, Cronenberg body horror much included.

And then a tiny-but-vocal minority slid in DST Beta forums with a bang complaining much to what we can see from some above-comments. Asking for these creatures to be toned down somewhat, somehow - or removed. KLei listened in a certain capacity. However I'm afraid these complains also influenced KLei's initial direction with all this "Moon" general update. No more hypothetical menacing cosmic intrusion on Constant's mobs via creeping horror mutagenesis, no more Survival content in-tune with DS initial dark undertones. But... "fishu-fishu" and boat bases. Fluff and decorations. I fancy those too but we already got plenty imo. Only time will tell. Still, like OP and many others here, I fear the tiny-yet-vocal minority got their ways in an unsuspected overboard manner on the long run, indirectly shifting KLei's "Return of Them" ship from initially desired "dark waters" territory (old pun much intended).

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At this point I feel like the only safe way to handle this situation would be to do what Klei vowed they never wanted to do: and that’s to separate their fanbase between who has and who does not have DLC, essentially turning DST into two different games-

One Thats rainbows and unicorns without the things some people find disturbing.

And another version that doesn’t hold back on the disturb factor because that’s the direction Klei was headed in anyway.

We have absolutely no idea what level of “Spooky” Klei plans to bring with Hallowed Nights 2020 skins and belongings- and while it is safe to assume that none of it will exceed 13+ rating-

Please do keep in mind that E rated games have more disturbing content then this 13+ game.

I bet 100$ that the people who complain about these horror moon monsters couldn’t handle something simple like Bakasura in SMITE- A creature which opens its stomach instead of its mouth to eat.

(I realize smite is rated T for Teen, but the argument still stands)

And something that perfectly fits the Dont Starve vibe of what I would expect in weird Tim Burton style mobs.

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1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

I'm not sure what's so hard for people to understand here.

People with an aversion to disturbing visual content simply want a toggle they can use in the settings to allow them to continue playing without being repulsed.

In the best case scenario you won't be effected at all. Enough with this "grow up" or "adult" excuse. It's hella rude to people with substantial aversions. The most "adult" thing you can realize as a human being is that your experience isn't universalized. You're not even being asked to compromise (by most people). It's just an accesibility option. If it's not for you, it doesn't affect you.

ok but

can you guarantee klei would do a client-side toggle and not a global change

and can you guarantee this does not create a deterrent for klei to think twice before adding new monsters

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Also just a very friendly reminder- the next Return of Them update has been confirmed as being titled as-

FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE..

I am pretty darn certain that with THAT as the title of the update that this is going to be the biggest, (and possibly creepiest) update they’ve put out yet.. ;) 

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I think a lot of us can agree on the "don't like it, don't play it" premise right here, and I don't think Klei would shift up completely their schedule just to appease the minority, and as Mike said, the next update will probably bring more of what we've seen in the first updates, Halloween is coming after all and more lunar content would fit the theme.

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Yeah, I gotta say, I really don't get the people who are upset about the body horror. I know people hate hearing this, but if you don't like it, it really is as simple of a matter as not playing it or turning off hound and Pengull waves.

You don't like body horror, fine. But no one wants to miss out on lore, and the story Klei wants to tell requires body horror (mutations caused by the presence of a Lovecraftian horror).

And using the wheelchair analogy makes no sense. Video games are not a necessity, they are not something that is owed to you. It's not the same thing.

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58 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

However I'm afraid these complains also influenced KLei's initial direction with all this "Moon" general update.

Unfortunatelly this seems to be true.

And I'm not saying that cuz all updates ever since were focused on the ocean. I like the ocean being more lively.

Let's compare 'Moon''s mutations on original 3 mobs and the 2 'new' ones (if few-months-old can be considered new)

Spiders, hounds and pengulls all show different body horror: mangled bodies, visible guts, unnatural growths.

Crab King.... is big.

Lunar Wobster.... is glass.

So yeah... I doubt that that sudden change in lunar mutations wasn't influenced by something.

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7 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Unfortunatelly this seems to be true.

And I'm not saying that cuz all updates ever since were focused on the ocean. I like the ocean being more lively.

Let's compare 'Moon''s mutations on original 3 mobs and the 2 'new' ones (if few-months-old can be considered new)

Spiders, hounds and pengulls all show different body horror: mangled bodies, visible guts, unnatural growths.

Crab King.... is big.

Lunar Wobster.... is glass.

So yeah... I doubt that that sudden change in lunar mutations wasn't influenced by something.

In defense of Klei,there is not much creepy things you can do with s m o l wobsters and crab king is not muated he is just corrupted and possibly under the influenc eof the new "forbidden knowledge.It looks like he is in the first stageof transmutation,just like Ancients.Klei did a good job with the wobsters and the king crab is,essentialy what it name suggests

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3 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Unfortunatelly this seems to be true.

And I'm not saying that cuz all updates ever since were focused on the ocean. I like the ocean being more lively.

Let's compare 'Moon''s mutations on original 3 mobs and the 2 'new' ones (if few-months-old can be considered new)

Spiders, hounds and pengulls all show different body horror: mangled bodies, visible guts, unnatural growths.

Crab King.... is big.

Lunar Wobster.... is glass.

So yeah... I doubt that that sudden change in lunar mutations wasn't influenced by something.

THIS so so much this, THANK YOU.. Video Games, much like movies or books are trying to tell a story (well DST is.. some games have no story but that’s besides the point.)

The 3 Horror Mutated Mobs in Question: Spider, Hound, Penguin.. 

I see that as a Story Klei is trying to tell- to warn the player that “Oh Hey the constant isn’t this friendly fairy godmother place where all your dreams come true.. this place holds a dark and twisted secret.”

(please go watch the horror movie Fantasy Island.. go do that RIGHT NOW because it fits this scenario perfectly.)

Most the people trapped in the constant were lured in by the promise of forbidden knowledge, or to be better or have something they don’t in the real world.. 

So: Let’s just pretend that we’re put into the constant and our goal is to “Don’t Starve” and in the Process of not starving we must kill Hounds, Spiders, Penguin etc to well Survive.. 

MEANWHILE: Everything we kill to survive’s mangled carcass that WE caused to be mangled is being washed up on Lunar Island... and being Resurrected to live again as some horrifying monstrosity that WE unknowingly caused we were simply trying to DONT STARVE unaware that what we have ACTUALLY been doing is adding members to Them’s undead army.

 

THAT is where I see this whole “Moon Altered” Mutations thing going..

To very clearly point out that a world that looks (mostly) pretty on its surface, holds a dark and terrible secret.

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These conversations are so exhausting because they go like this, in an infinite loop:
- "You're saying you want horror hounds and moonrock pengulls removed because they scare you? You're saying you want Klei to never make this kind of content ever again?"
"No, we want a purely optional toggle for these visuals, for the people who are distressed by these visuals to the point of not being able to experience new content"
- "You're saying you want a fully mandatory removal of horror hounds and moonrock pengulls, along with Klei never making content like this again? Because you are scared of them?"
Like, seriously, it's been like this for over a year and it's happening in this very thread, to the point where it really feels intentional.

Also @Kaos42, did you seriously follow the link to the mod specifically to leave a rude comment on a 100% optional mod made for accessibility? What... what do you gain from that?
image.png.db7393edd24a0c0eb3cf3ea45aa41174.png

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1 hour ago, Well-met said:

ok but

can you guarantee klei would do a client-side toggle and not a global change

and can you guarantee this does not create a deterrent for klei to think twice before adding new monsters

I'm not Klei nor apart of Klei. So no. Any ifs, and what ifs are entirely out of anyone's scope.

 

1 hour ago, ExtollerOfTrolls said:

Yeah, I gotta say, I really don't get the people who are upset about the body horror. I know people hate hearing this, but if you don't like it, it really is as simple of a matter as not playing it or turning off hound and Pengull waves.

You don't like body horror, fine. But no one wants to miss out on lore, and the story Klei wants to tell requires body horror (mutations caused by the presence of a Lovecraftian horror).

And using the wheelchair analogy makes no sense. Video games are not a necessity, they are not something that is owed to you. It's not the same thing.

It's been said to death, but I'll say it again. For some people it's not a 'dislike'. A dislike or fear of spiders is not the same as a phobia of spiders. Now are all the people requesting this feature experiencing a debilitating reaction? Who knows. It's best to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Point is, an accesibility setting doesn't hurt the people who don't need this change, yet helps those who do. It's not being 'owed' anything. It's not that different from a color blind or gore setting.

You won't lose your lore. You won't lose anything. But the people who need this will gain substantially.

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6 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I'm not Klei nor apart of Klei. So no. Any ifs, and what ifs are entirely out of anyone's scope.

Alright, then that means it's fine to be concerned about it all.

You assume it's an accessibility feature and I assume it could hurt development in the long run.

I'm happy that's cleared up.

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2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I'm not sure what's so hard for people to understand here.

People with an aversion to disturbing visual content simply want a toggle they can use in the settings to allow them to continue playing without being repulsed.

In the best case scenario you won't be effected at all. Enough with this "grow up" or "adult" excuse. It's hella rude to people with substantial aversions. The most "adult" thing you can realize as a human being is that your experience isn't universalized. You're not even being asked to compromise (by most people). It's just an accesibility option. If it's not for you, it doesn't affect you.

it actually affects in how klei waste resources...

if there is common phobias like spiders or tripophibic ok but not for every creepy mob

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1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

From what I could take, first Return of Them update that introduced Moon Archipelago with its mobs and mechanics proposed an interesting premise: instead of having the classic duality in storytelling - a Good vs Evil theme, we got a battleground between 2 Evils. 

If you think about that,its not evil vs evil but good done trough "evil" deeds and pure evil.Moon gives life and mutates,so if you mutate EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is under your control and if you control everything,there is no evil.So Moon could be a hive mind.On the other side of the ring there are Them,entity/ies that want to conquer ,destroy and rule.

 

Oh wait....What if THEM isn´t supposed to mean the shadow ones,but Them:The Moon and The Shadows,light and darkness.The everlasting cycle,indestructible entities which must exist and fight between themselfs to bring the balance

(just a quick brainstorming)

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25 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I'm not Klei nor apart of Klei. So no. Any ifs, and what ifs are entirely out of anyone's scope.

 

It's been said to death, but I'll say it again. For some people it's not a 'dislike'. A dislike or fear of spiders is not the same as a phobia of spiders. Now are all the people requesting this feature experiencing a debilitating reaction? Who knows. It's best to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Point is, an accesibility setting doesn't hurt the people who don't need this change, yet helps those who do. It's not being 'owed' anything. It's not that different from a color blind or gore setting.

You won't lose your lore. You won't lose anything. But the people who need this will gain substantially.

Why do you guys continue to ignore my point about skins and belongings? 

Exactly to what extent would a “gore filter” actually filter? Does the dead skeleton crow flower in Wendy’s belongings skin set also need to be censored through this filter?

The TL:DR- You want something that your not fully processing, they CAN add sensitivity options for things like Lightning effects, or things like insanity effects and sounds, they maybe can even give a gore filter option to censor the lunar moon mobs.

BUT how do you censor the skins and belongings that other players use??? 
If for example Klei added a Walking Cane skin that was me carrying a Skeletons foot with a caption reading (an extra leg for extra faster walking) 

THEN does your “Gore Filter” Show only the Non-Skinned vanilla version to YOU of that Skeleton foot cane I am currently using?

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2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why do you guys continue to ignore my point about skins and belongings? 

Exactly to what extent would a “gore filter” actually filter? Does the dead skeleton crow flower in Wendy’s belongings skin set also need to be censored through this filter?

The TL:DR- You want something that your not fully processing, they CAN add sensitivity options for things like Lightning effects, or things like insanity effects and sounds, they maybe can even give a gore filter option to censor the lunar moon mobs.

BUT how do you censor the skins and belongings that other players use??? 
If for example Klei added a Walking Cane skin that was me carrying a Skeletons foot with a caption reading (an extra leg for extra faster walking) 

THEN does your “Gore Filter” Show only the Non-Skinned vanilla version to YOU of that Skeleton foot cane I am currently using?

Looks like if they won´t complain,its ok xD

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2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

BUT how do you censor the skins and belongings that other players use??? 
If for example Klei added a Walking Cane skin that was me carrying a Skeletons foot with a caption reading (an extra leg for extra faster walking) 

THEN does your “Gore Filter” Show only the Non-Skinned vanilla version to YOU of that Skeleton foot cane I am currently using?

it'd probably show a filtered version of whatever skin is being used lol

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27 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I'm not Klei nor apart of Klei. So no. Any ifs, and what ifs are entirely out of anyone's scope.

 

It's been said to death, but I'll say it again. For some people it's not a 'dislike'. A dislike or fear of spiders is not the same as a phobia of spiders. Now are all the people requesting this feature experiencing a debilitating reaction? Who knows. It's best to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Point is, an accesibility setting doesn't hurt the people who don't need this change, yet helps those who do. It's not being 'owed' anything. It's not that different from a color blind or gore setting.

You won't lose your lore. You won't lose anything. But the people who need this will gain substantially.

"Like" was a poor choice of words. But I'll stand by what I said: you don't have to play the game. You can toggle the switches if you don't want your phobia triggered.

They DO have accessibility, they're upset because it is in the unmodified version of the game. I'm not talking about people who go "Oop, I can't handle body horror, guess I'll install the mods or turn off hound attacks." I'm talking about the people who are complaining because they know they have triggers, know a game has THOSE specific triggers in it, and then get upset because that game triggers them.

That's like someone telling me, "You can't have this antibiotic, it has penicillin and you're allergic. You can have this one that's just slightly less effective." And me saying, "No, I don't want to compromise for something that's less effective.", and then getting upset because I break out in hives.

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6 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

it'd probably show a filtered version of whatever skin is being used lol

Yes correct but Klei would have to update this filter to be compatible with every even slightly questionable skin/belonging that they decide to release.

Which in the end.. would it be a good use of resources and development time to try and censor all the skins they release that can be seen as disturbing to some?

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