RoT so far...

[Szczuku]

Hello, new thread.

So since Troubled Waters has just dropped and it's been well over a year since RoT started I've decided that it's a good time for a thread like this.

Now keep in mind that I'm going to talk only about gameplay updates cuz I'm fairly satisfied with character updates. And yes I am aware that RoT ain't finished.

Gameplay- weeeell I hope that Klei's at least making profits cuz as of now despite updates playing dst has been spiraling out of my circle of interests. So far what I said in my previous 'Old content needs refresh' or 'Op farms need nerfs'- like threads has been pretty accurate. New content has arrived but it doesn't really change the way you've played dst for the last year. Even the newest update's crockpot recipes don't seem worth the trouble when compared to the 'old ways'. 

It seems as though through these updates Klei wants to (sorta) allow players to live permanently on the sea. And that's what we should probably expect from the future updates. More ocean filler content before we see anything... exciting(?). 

When it comes to lore... I-I don't know... I just have to hope that Klei has something good in store. We had a nice Gateway plot going on 2 years ago and it seems as though it was just forgotten. But characters' lore is cool.

So... yeah, I guess untill 2021 dst's situation won't change.

[minespatch]

I wish we had those streams again so we could see concept art to tide time. a New Reign was such a lively time.

Jeff Agala, if you have a forum account, please post more concept art.

[Scrimbles]

I still see no reason to really go sailing.

All the new recipes are good, but as with the rest of the RoT content, its not as efficient or effective as some of the most spammable, easy to farm, abused resources.

 

I dont knoe how people expect future updates to excuse how prctically useless all the new stuff is.

Maybe the Crab King altar drop will yeild some amazing new weapons and armor, but frankly I dont see the point when you can still ruins rush, cheese the AG, and unlock end game items by day 3, like I see nearly every pub game i join into on vanilla.

[Mike23Ua]

15 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

I still see no reason to really go sailing.

All the new recipes are good, but as with the rest of the RoT content, its not as efficient or effective as some of the most spammable, easy to farm, abused resources.

 

I dont knoe how people expect future updates to excuse how prctically useless all the new stuff is.

Maybe the Crab King altar drop will yeild some amazing new weapons and armor, but frankly I dont see the point when you can still ruins rush, cheese the AG, and unlock end game items by day 3, like I see nearly every pub game i join into on vanilla.

I agree with this, I want more content.. I want map hazards, trapped biomes, you know stuff that exists in Solo DS but is nowhere to be seen in DST.

I also want a better Ocean, DSTs Ocean is flat.. peaceful and filled with nothing but emptiness... I mean if you’d like I can make a video of just how incredibly boring sailing through nothing is until you come across any type of content AT ALL (with exception to Wavey & Terror Claw) 

In my CURRENT World, all of the Return of Them related stuff.. Salt Stacks, Sea Weeds etc is all spawning at very edge of the world just about where the map ends..

I don’t know if this content is SUPPOSED to spawn this way.. but it makes for one very boring boating trip.

[Yuuko]

27 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

It seems as though through these updates Klei wants to (sorta) allow players to live permanently on the sea. And that's what we should probably expect from the future updates. More ocean filler content before we see anything... exciting(?). 

I kinda feel the opposite.  I really enjoyed sailing for a while but feel like this update kinda... gives me less desire to sail.  I get that sanity should have a penalty even at sea, but there aren't many remedies for it.  Fighting of shadow monsters is alright, but there aren't many sources of weapons and armor at sea either.  This kinda pushes us to stay on shore and only use boats for transport... which sucks.  On land we could just pick green caps or cactus, or make a quick hambat to fight off whatever we need.  On the seas we got glass cutter, trident, and cookie cutter hat...

I think we really need more readily available weapons and armor if we're going to be living and fighting on the seas.  Cookie cutter caps should get the same stats as football helmet and either require less shells to craft, or shells should get a higher drop rate.  Cutlass Supreme could make a come back as a lesser weapon to fulfil the niche the hambat typically serves.  And we should have an alternative crafting recipe for boat patches that can be more sustained on the sea, maybe using bone shards instead of bee stingers.

With this update as is I think I'm just gonna be back on land for a while...  This patch was pretty much all new risks and no rewards.

[Brubs]

I agree on most points, but to be fair, i think that new Leafy Meat recipes are actually going to change the way we play. I wouldnt be surprised to see lureplants farms now or gekko farms but just for the sake of taking their meat. Sanity oriented food is something we were lacking and i appreciate.

Also Wormwood being able to interact with more plants is great. Is it enough? Of course not but it is a start. I'm actually happy with this update probably because i know there is more to come

[Ohan]

i think this is just the natural consequence of the ocean being added on top of a completed game. i posted about this in another thread but its gonna be really hard for klei to add anything to the ocean thats not gonna feel superfluous. everything u need and more u can find on land and in the caves. i feel like there would need to be some drastic changes for the ocean to feel more entwined with the classic DST gameplay we know and love instead of just "content for the sake of content", like splitting the landmass into islands etc 

[Mysterious box]

I feel the issue isn't that the sea content is bad it's just that boats are too clunky and slow to the point of me not wanting to set foot back on the water after finding lunar I get that shipwreck boats were too fast and too easy to control but i hope we can reach a happy medium before this update is over

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, Brubs said:

I agree on most points, but to be fair, i think that new Leafy Meat recipes are actually going to change the way we play.

True.  It was kinda novel to put lureplants on boats since you get rid of their downside 100%, but the leafy meats weren't useful enough to make this worth doing really.  Now that we have Jelly Salad and Beefy Greens this is a pretty solid food sources.  I suspect a lot of people will add a boat full of lureplants to their base setups.

Just remember to add a flingo - the water around oasis isn't safe from wildfires, and these plants are gonna want to burn when you jump off to harvest them or boat around that area in summer.

[WoodieMain45684]

I feel like the entirety of the ROT content aside from the islands are designed to aid in creating a unique journey for players to experience at sea, and that the devs are expecting the player to spend a LONG time at sea while journeying to the lunar island, pearl's island, and possibly other islands in the future. But the issue is, the area between these islands and the mainland is typically so small that making a boat is often less preferable to just spending a mountain of wood on making a bridge to get to the locations. The mechanics being released (fishing, barnacles, the sharks, the dishes made at sea) are designed for longer voyages in which simply gathering honey hams and bacon and eggs at the mainland won't be good enough,  you'd need to gather food along the way. When in practice, it's better to avoid these mechanics and refer to the systems that we have been abusing. In a way, ROT content *feels* like its designed to be played with little exposure to existing mechanics and food sources on the mainland as possible. Though this goes only for the major systems like boating, fishing, treasure finding, etc.

Speaking of treasure finding.... why go through a mountain of quests, wood, silk, time, and patience to possibly get a limited number of ruins tier gear when you can rush the ruins and get a practically unlimited amount of ruins tier gear. (Basically, the treasure chests are kinda bad, might wanna consider a better loot table, not to mention the limited number of them is a mega downer.)

However, I wouldn't say that ROT updates have made 0 impact though, for example:

Lobster Bisque as an alternative to Pierogi.

Glass cutters axes as an alternative to weather pains VS Toadstool.

Depending on character choice, glass cutters vs any shadow boss.

The leafy meat recipes.

 

[1bubbainpa]

There’s just little to no reason to go out on the sea. Everything we need to survive is already present on the mainland, meaning seafaring has no reward whatsoever.

The ruins are rushed because it offers unique, powerful gear that is cool and fun to use and flex with, like the Thulecite Crown or Star Caller’s Staff.

The sea requires similar preparations, but it’s often more sluggish and boring going around looking for something in particular. 
The lunar island is almost always found by examining the map layout instead of purposely searching for it, and the Hermit island is given away by the bottles floating through the ocean.

And the rewards? It’s mostly fishing equipment. I understand that some people like it, but to me, fishing is one of the most boring things to do in any videogame. I’d rather mess around with the clockworks in the ruins then setting up 3 different crafting stations for the express purpose of fishing.

So for me, there’s no incentive to go into the ocean. The only thing that I see people use regularly from the Return of Them update are using boats as land bridges and Stone Fruit bushes, which 9/10 times a Woodie just rushes lunar island instead of setting up a boat.

[Maxil20]

19 minutes ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

Glass cutters as an alternative to weather pains VS Toadstool.

I think you might have meant moon glass axes, unless the cutters have an unseen ability to pulverize the sporecaps : P

[Sweaper]

Creating a custom map focused on sea would be a lot of work but possible. In the world customization (where it sets loops and branches) could be an option for having islands, maybe put it on a very low chance to choose islands if left on default.  I'm aware of the problems it could cause for people joining late on a server but there are ways to fix it like always having 1-2 wormholes on the initial island, put mosaic biome always linked with the main island and have a cave too. The cave would be there to help with grass, twigs and trees while mosaic with rocks and flint. Every other biome would be on other islands, something like 5 islands total counting lunar, the spawn is in the middle one always.

Also, make boat motors a crafting item with gears to speed, and maybe make a forced spawn of clockworks in the first island. They could be attached on the edge of the boat and then turned on speed the boat for one direction only, this is just to help early game boats when 6 silk is hard to get early.

The problem with this is that it's a forced way to play and most people will probably hate that world gen since it changes the game too much. And boats are still too expensive for early game.

[Pikapikap]

I agree with some points,Some of the content in the released update needs to be modified,To make them more practical, the mechanism update like the lightning goat is great. I think Klei can make some changes to the game in every small patch or hotfix of the game, such as the practicality of rot's loot? If this doesn't affect their schedule, I think that would be great.

[Well-met]

2 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I still see no reason to really go sailing.

All the new recipes are good, but as with the rest of the RoT content, its not as efficient or effective as some of the most spammable, easy to farm, abused resources.

 

I dont knoe how people expect future updates to excuse how prctically useless all the new stuff is.

Maybe the Crab King altar drop will yeild some amazing new weapons and armor, but frankly I dont see the point when you can still ruins rush, cheese the AG, and unlock end game items by day 3, like I see nearly every pub game i join into on vanilla.

interesting how whenever someone mentions this in other threads, they get downvoted to hell and told how awesome fishing is.

[Moonatik]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

 

It seems as though through these updates Klei wants to (sorta) allow players to live permanently on the sea. And that's what we should probably expect from the future updates. More ocean filler content before we see anything... exciting(?). 

When it comes to lore... I-I don't know... I just have to hope that Klei has something good in store. We had a nice Gateway plot going on 2 years ago and it seems as though it was just forgotten. But characters' lore is cool.

So... yeah, I guess untill 2021 dst's situation won't change.

Something exciting ? I guess it could be the way to suddenly change all the picture we have from the ocean. For sure, we can be disapointed after this update. But it's still hard to see it in a complete picture.

Maybe a special event could force us to go to the sea, and force us to prepare a long moment on water. Because "living permanently on the sea" means something. So I can't see the future of this without a sea base. It's strange because there's not many thread on this specific idea, but I could be wrong. 

A sea base could be the opportunity to change many things. Well... If you have no limits to structure this idea, could we build a rabbit village ? But let's forget that. Or better, make it impossible due to the ground we'll use for that base. We could see new types of garden (perfect time to change how gardens works), for sea plant, new ways for fishing, and going to these actual new plants for food would be very useful.

What else could we imagine on a sea base ? Tons maybe. 

But to force us going for living on the sea, even for 10, 15 or 20 days, something terrible should happen on the main land. So I won't go further. 

Two more points, and could they be part of a QoL update ?

-Someone above talked about these horrible bridges we build, for moon island, but also between two biomes on mainland. So, real bridges ?

-And the quality of loots in sea treasures. The first time, I was happy to find some Malbatross feathers, because after 1 fight you don't have enough for a sail. After few chests, I can now build like 4 or 5. It could be improved for sure.

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, Moonatik said:

A sea base could be the opportunity to change many things. Well... If you have no limits to structure this idea, could we build a rabbit village ? But let's forget that. Or better, make it impossible due to the ground we'll use for that base. We could see new types of garden (perfect time to change how gardens works), for sea plant, new ways for fishing, and going to these actual new plants for food would be very useful.

They could take the mechanical seabase aspect from Shipwrecked but make a new designed one?

[sudoku]

My only problem right now is I feel like klei is trying to do too much at once with ROT, refreshes, and dlc characters. 3-ish months between ROT updates that adds good but very little content does not hold peoples attention like these update should especially when the ocean is kinda like the caves and has to be built from scratch. I hope they are done with new characters for a bit so they can really hunker down and develop an identity for the ocean.

[Pikapikap]

2 hours ago, Brubs said:

I agree on most points, but to be fair, i think that new Leafy Meat recipes are actually going to change the way we play. I wouldnt be surprised to see lureplants farms now or gekko farms but just for the sake of taking their meat. Sanity oriented food is something we were lacking and i appreciate.

Also Wormwood being able to interact with more plants is great. Is it enough? Of course not but it is a start. I'm actually happy with this update probably because i know there is more to come

bravo！ Klei is awesome~

[Moonatik]

4 minutes ago, minespatch said:

They could take the mechanical seabase aspect from Shipwrecked but make a new designed one?

Well, shame on me because I never played a "complete" game on SW. I made many starts, but was always focused on RoG then DST.

So as I wanted specific boat items, for light, cooking, space for items (under chest), etc... I see sea base with specific items too, where it would be almost impossible to make a copy of a mainland base. So no villages for food, but fish farms of course. And more. You could help me as I don't really see a SW base (I don't have many spoils on it, waiting for this good moment to start a proper game, freshy). 

Edit QoL: Now we have a very good light source on the boat, I would like a good heat source for winter. Smaller than a firepit of course, and WHY NOT, with a double use for cooking !

[Brago-sama]

Pure sea bases aren't really possible in shipwrecked tho due to there being no sea lightning rod, hurricane season having a bolt from the sky every 3 seconds and the way fire spread worked in the old games.

They did still introduce a lot of stuff for the sea that I'd love to see make it's way into RoT like

-Sea lab (an alternate science machine made almost purely from sea parts. Maybe a shadow manipulater equivalent too?)

-Buoyant Chimera (basically a fire pit placed directly on water)

-Pirates hat (Greatly increased the radius of map discovery on a boat)

-OIL (Multi purpose tool. I feel it could be a great mid-endgame in dst if they gave it enough uses)

[Gourmand]

4 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I still see no reason to really go sailing.

All the new recipes are good, but as with the rest of the RoT content, its not as efficient or effective as some of the most spammable, easy to farm, abused resources.

 

I dont knoe how people expect future updates to excuse how prctically useless all the new stuff is.

Maybe the Crab King altar drop will yeild some amazing new weapons and armor, but frankly I dont see the point when you can still ruins rush, cheese the AG, and unlock end game items by day 3, like I see nearly every pub game i join into on vanilla.

It's unfortunate that we have to wait until at least October for the next RoT update. September is a QoL update and after that we're getting a character rework the following month.

52 minutes ago, sudoku said:

My only problem right now is I feel like klei is trying to do too much at once with ROT, refreshes, and dlc characters. 3-ish months between ROT updates that adds good but very little content does not hold peoples attention like these update should especially when the ocean is kinda like the caves and has to be built from scratch. I hope they are done with new characters for a bit so they can really hunker down and develop an identity for the ocean.

I think they mentioned in the roadmap that they were working on at least one new character, which was Walter.

[sudoku]

10 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

It's unfortunate that we have to wait until at least October for the next RoT update. September is a QoL update and after that we're getting a character rework the following month.

I think they mentioned in the roadmap that they were working on at least one new character, which was Walter.

Yea last update they said dlc characters aren't off the table but they weren't working on one as of now, which I hope they stick to at least until they finish the refreshes.

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Yea last update they said dlc characters aren't off the table but they weren't working on one as of now, which I hope they stick to at least until they finish the refreshes.

No guys AUGUST is the QoL Update...

September will be something else. It’s also Important to Note that September is the month with a “Pirates day” holiday in it... so it goes without saying we SHOULD get something due to all the updates being based on Water and Boating and stuff 

And October BETTER be the return of my favorite time of year.  

[WkingDisaster]

Overall, it feels less attractive compared to shipwreck DLC, which is the best DLC for DS in my opinion. 

The incovenient sailing experience makes the ocean exploring unenjoyable,and yet there are tons of sea stacks everywhere, which should be replaced by tiny islands to explore, and the boat is clumzy and so easy to break, so there is not desire for me to go sailing unless I absolutely need to get loots from the sea. Why not just learn from the successful experience from the shipwreck and add some flexible boat options, and I don't mind some of those content directly migrated from Shipwreck.