How do YOU define the difference between "cheese" and "cheating"?

[Owlrust]

When it comes to the discussion of cheesy tactics vs outright cheating, where would you draw the line? 

[KeshS]

Community decides if it is cheese or cheating. I am long lost of what things are intented or not in this game.

[Majestix]

I don't think that "cheating" is applicable at all in a non-competitive game. What exactly is the purpose of this question? If you are asking what you are "allowed" to do, then the answer is "anything that does not harm others".

[Mike23Ua]

In an Open world Sandbox game where you aren’t bound by any rules and limits- I don’t think there can be anything (within the games limitations of course) that can be considered as Cheating.

Does me running for & climbing up the nearest ladder whenever I hear a feral sound in State of Decay 2 knowing it can’t rip me apart if it can’t reach me count as “Cheese or Cheating?” 
 

No.. because if the developers didn’t like what I was doing they would let that fat zombie pick up the feral and hurl him like a projectile to my otherwise safe location.

What does any of that have to do with DST? Simple- Any tactic you can think up that Klei does not patch.. is a valid Tactic.

And The TL:DR- my 100% Unbiased Honest opinion- No Tactic is considering cheese or cheating when the overpowered thing that is Wolfgang exists.

(Provided of course said tactic is not a mod, console command etc..)

[Bluepufferfish]

For me it depends on I'm using a "cheat" for enjoyment vs unrestricted gain. I'll gladly use a rollback if I'm on a single player world where I'm not playing like a crazed maniac but on my traditional survival worlds I won't use simple mods or rollbacks for that clean vanilla experience. Stem your use of tactics or cheats from the enjoyment you'd get from them and how it affects your experience instead of simply going off guidelines that may restrict you. 

[Viktor234]

Cheese: Achieve something in an unnatural way. (e.g. creating a Tentacle Trap, abusing the AI of a boss)
Cheat: Achieve something with the help of console commands or by abusing some missing lines in the Klei Code. (e.g. No-Collision Wortox (already fixed), [...])

[Moonatik]

I have an example, but on Dark Souls 3. When you see that already poor poor guy, but very happy, creating a thread "I beat that boss !". 

It's the first Dark Souls he play so he's happy to share. And here we come:

- GG ! 

- GG but how many HP did you have ?

- Oh, ok. And how many stamina ?

- Ok. Which weapon did you use ?

- Hmm. But what was your strengh stat ? 

And then we fall in some stupid (IMO) considerations who leads to: You maybe beat him but you cheesed him. It's stupid when some players starts thinking we shouldn't use what devs gives us to play with. So they... restraint (?) themselves , just because it feels like the "right way" the devs thought the game (yeah sure, by not playing with all they created...). 

Poor guy, really. Shame on him. 

 

 

[KeshS]

3 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Cheese: Achieve something in an unnatural way. (e.g. creating a Tentacle Trap, abusing the AI of a boss)
Cheat: Achieve something with the help of console commands or by abusing some missing lines in the Klei Code. (e.g. No-Collision Wortox (already fixed), [...])

What about abusing something with the help of mods which wouldn't be possible otherwise. If you say yes, then are mods cheating?

[Moonatik]

6 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Cheese: Achieve something in an unnatural way. (e.g. creating a Tentacle Trap, abusing the AI of a boss)
Cheat: Achieve something with the help of console commands or by abusing some missing lines in the Klei Code. (e.g. No-Collision Wortox (already fixed), [...])

Unnatural ways ? Tentacle traps and abusing AI is the same for you ?

[Viktor234]

1 minute ago, KeshS said:

What about abusing something with the help of mods which wouldn't be possible otherwise. If you say yes, then are mods cheating?

Mods are almost same as console commands.

[Moonatik]

Cheese is a bad word. If you use 4 catapults and flingos on Toadstool. It's not a cheese, it's just easier. Especially when you're alone. It's not "unnatural". Easier is enough. 

Abusing the ancient guardian on a pillar is different. 

[Yuuko]

First off - if you're in your own world, do what you want.  I don't care.  Use consoles, mods, whatever.  I approve.  Just disclose this information so ppl don't try to do the same in vanilla world.

There is no cheese in the game.  Its a sandbox survival world.  The game was never created for you to do X action for Y problem.  There are only various interactions which you can exploit for your own advantage.  Some may not be fun for you, and you are welcome to not do these, but they are all part of the game.  Picking Wolfgang for double damage and speed boost to make bosses ez mode is just as "cheese" as picking Wickerbottom for tentacle trap, Winona for catapult, Wilson for bear hair, or Wes for balloons.  They are all parts of the game, as are flingomatics, star caller staff, fossil pieces, walls, and powder cakes.  The game devs gave us a campfire, that doesn't mean burning a tree isn't a valid strategy to get light / heat.

Cheating is different - cheating can be defined a few ways.  1) Anything put in the console, even if it does not require admin, is cheating.  The console is not "part of the game."  It is a dev tool.  Even though it is easily accessed this is not a game feature.  2) Anything that cannot be replicated on a vanilla game.  This is to cover mods.  Mods like geometric placement, push mod, ect are not "cheating" because you can place structures in this same position or push monsters in this same way in vanilla.  But zoom out mod lets you see much further than you could in vanilla game so it is cheating, same with night vision mod.  There is some gray area for exposing certain things such as season length, temperature, ect.  These are cheating but aren't really bad because such a feature is not typically critical to any strategy BUT if a strategy said "at x temperature do y" and you couldn't replicate it reliably in vanilla because you lack temperature information then it would become more of an issue to cheat this way.

Exploiting geometry / physics or other game mechanics is not cheating.  It is glitching.  Glitching is exploiting some flaw in game mechanics which are free game and its up to the devs to fix.  If they don't fix it becomes a valid part of the game.  As with anything else, you are free to play how you want.  If you're not interested in a certain way of playing that is up to you.  It is not up to you to decide whether what another person does is valid or not.  Human's didn't get to where we are today because we are the strongest or fastest creatures on the planet lol

[Captain_Rage]

Cheesing means doing something unoriginal but in computer games a better meaning would perhaps be to do something that minimizes the difficulty of a challenge, often to a degree that there isn't any challenge to speak of.

Cheating would be using console commands and rollbacks and things outside the game world.

If such definitions are meaningful in the context of a sandbox game is other story, like others have already pointed out.

 

.... for me, using any command, mod or doing a rollback would feel insanely dirty and make the game extremely boring. For that reason I have never done that.

(Although I did admittedly use that Chinese mod during The Gorge, and the dirty tasty it left still lingers, plus a mod to remove the pig crowds in The Forge because my old potato laptop couldn't handle the animations).

[Harrowick]

Winona's Catapult on Bosses - Cheese, because it still costs resources.

Ancient Guardian Pillar Strat - Cheating

 

 

At least in my eyes, anyways.

[GenomeSquirrel]

I consider console commands and altered coding like mods ways to cheat

If it doesn’t follow under those two I’d consider it cheese.

[Zeklo]

Cheese - Using existing mechanics/bugs/exploits to achieve a result in an unintended way.

Cheat - Using external means such as console/mods/hacks to achieve a result.

Edit: Major bugs like invincibility, out of bounds, etc would fall under cheating (imo), but the hope is these types don't exist in a game.

[Mike23Ua]

Okay so.. playing as Willow I noticed that life is a lot easier if you turn Willow into a designated Field Medic..

What I mean by that is to intentionally fill Willows inventory with nothing but Bernie/ Ashley dolls and Repair Kits.

You can “Cheese” Any Boss in the game just by throwing down a whole bunch of Bernie.. and forcing yourself insane, When one Bernie dies another one nearby Willow will enlarge- This Tactic works best when you have a Minimum of at least 4 Bernie’s.. (I prefer 6) But whenever one Bernie Dies.. The other will enlarge to continue fighting. It only takes ONE use of a Sewing Kit to full repair Bernie to 100% good to go again..

So you can literally run around patching up dead Bernie’s and successfully have THEM tank a boss for you.

Is this Tactic any more “Cheesy” then just continuously summoning Abigail as Wendy?

My point is- let people play and enjoy the game THEIR Way and you don’t worry about what’s cheesy and what’s not.

As long as what they do isn’t killing your own enjoyment of playing.. it shouldn’t matter.

I for one LOVE Playing Willow as a Field Medic for fallen Bernie’s... 

[Sweaper]

Aim botting and wall hacks.

Edit: wrong game

[Ryde]

Cheese is using internal sources within the simulation to reduce the difficulty of achieving something.

Cheat is using external sources within the simulation to reduce the difficulty of achieving something.

 

If you answer the test question with an answer which doesn't necessarily answer the question, but you still got the mark for it. You cheesed the test.

If you answer the test question with an answer you copied off your friend or from a paper, and got full mark for it. You cheated on the test.

 

If you used a pillar to stop ancient guardian from attacking you while you wail on him, you cheesed the ancient guardian.

If you used console command to immediately kill the ancient guardian, you cheated to kill the ancient guardian. (Console command is within the game, but it's not within the game world, and thus using it is using an external source.)

If you use console commands to make a ham bat kill the ancient guardian 30 hits, you cheated the game and killed the ancient guardian.

If you bring 6 mighty buffed Wolfgangs, eating spicy Warly food to kill the ancient guardian and kill it 3 hits. That's not even cheesing because more people means more power.

 

Mods further blur this line because it becomes more relative.

A mod which adds a one hit weapon will be cheesy. But some people will consider it cheating relative to the game without mods.

A mod which allows buff stacking will be cheesy. But some people will consider it cheating relative to the game without mods.

A mod which allows you to spawn anything and everything you want will be considered cheating relative to the game with and without mods because it reduces the amount of effort of everything and nullifies the entire point of the game.

 

Cheating is much more frowned on than cheesing. Because you can't cheese everything, but you can cheat everything. Cheese usually exists to reduce the complexity of task which doing it the way a developer visioned is either frustrating or not worth the reward. While cheating has no horizons in limits. You can cheat the most difficult tasks to the most simple. The line here is that one the developer has overlooked and can fix it. And the other knows no bounds.

 

But what is considered what and what is not is all titles we put and agree to believe in. What you play, enjoy, and if you can persuade others on what is what. Then nothing matters so long the purpose of the game - fun - is had.

[FuriousChimera]

It could be defined by the intention of players to use command,or bug/feature . For example :

Using camfire respawn, fast travel, character tweaks mods in host or mod dedicated servers to introduce the game, make it easier for new players,are not cheating nor cheese since it is beneficial all players experienced.

Playing Wickerbottom to farm massive ammount of food, grasses ,twigs and reeds, getting early krampus sacks ,killing beequeen in 6 days -  cheesy character.

Picking only Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, Wx to abuse their perks, wrecked the world, then process to calling everyone else playing other characters useless - cheaty characters.

Using Moosegoose, Voltgoat duplicated to create a spawn to prevent wild fire in summer, getting more herd in a bad worldgen - cheese

Compare to abuse the same bug to create infinite Mooslings spawns in spring, create massive lag/death trap to anyother player in vanila dedicated server -  cheating.

 and etc...

 

 

[ZTheNecromancer]

Well one word is used as a term for helping pass time, among other things. Ex: "the tuneless rhyme with which the warder cheats the time"

The other is a block of warmed dairy product.

[Well-met]

cheese is very often just a synonym to exploit

cheating is using nebulous console variables as a client to reveal the map or change your textures. cheating can also come in mods like the one that makes you attack faster.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

50 minutes ago, FuriousChimera said:

It could be defined by the intention of players to use command,or bug/feature . For example :

Using camfire respawn, fast travel, character tweaks mods in host or mod dedicated servers to introduce the game, make it easier for new players,are not cheating nor cheese since it is beneficial all players experienced.

Playing Wickerbottom to farm massive ammount of food, grasses ,twigs and reeds, getting early krampus sacks ,killing beequeen in 6 days -  cheesy character.

Picking only Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, Wx to abuse their perks, wrecked the world, then process to calling everyone else playing other characters useless - cheaty characters.

Using Moosegoose, Voltgoat duplicated to create a spawn to prevent wild fire in summer, getting more herd in a bad worldgen - cheese

Compare to abuse the same bug to create infinite Mooslings spawns in spring, create massive lag/death trap to anyother player in vanila dedicated server -  cheating.

 and etc...

 

 

How can consider this no cheeting but using a character for the game cheese? You are missundertanding what is overpower and what is cheat. Using mods to make the game easier=cheat (the mods you said are just cheetingx1000) using and overpower character/map editing to make easier the game =easy mode

I learn the game with wilson to dont have downsides and wolfgang to know how to fight raid bosses. That was legit but if put a mod that make me able to stack 99 pierogies, logs and grass is cheating. Using a mod to know how much hp has a boss or to reduce something of him is cheating; using too many bunnies or iceflingo= lame but not cheating

Godmode can help newplayers to learn the game in less time no cheating because is "helping" ?????????

 

 

[. . .]

there is no such a thing as cheating in dst

[Viktor234]

Difference between Normal, Cheesing, Cheating against Fuelweaver:

• Normal: You enter the arena and fight him directly, giving Fuelweaver a chance to defeat you.
• Cheese: Instead of fighting the Fuelweaver directly, you trap him with Lureplants and place down a Houndious Shootious doing all the work safely for you. This way of fighting Fuelweaver isn't the most hornorable one, because unless Fuelweaver knows how to avoid being killed that way, he doesn't stand a chance against you, but it's still an intended way to defeat Fuelweaver.
• Cheating: You don't even attempt to prepare for the fight and kill him for some reason with just a single attack. No effort required and free loot, also there's no way Fuelweaver had any chance defeating you because for some reason you were also invincible.

PvP:

• Normal: Wilson vs Wilson - You and your opponent, both appear to have the same chances to win the fight
• Cheese: Wilson vs Wickerbottom - Instead of fighting you directly, Wickerbottom uses Sleepytime Stories and fights you while you are asleep, defeating you. Not a very hornorable way to win the game but it's an intended way.
• Cheating: Wickerbottom vs Wes - You cast your book on Wes, but he doesn't show any reaction. Instead he teleports behind you and kills you with just a single punch. There's no way he could teleport himself to you and defeat you with just a single attack and without any weapon while you had full health.

 

22 minutes ago, --- -.- said:

there is no such a thing as cheating in dst

Cheating does exist not only in DST but also in many other games, otherwise there would be no point in developing e.g. the Valve Anti-Cheat System. Some cheats can be considered less cheaty since they can be reproduced by abusing console commands which will you an unfair advantage, others are more cheaty because they will allow you to e.g. teleport yourself to other players, even if you don't have the rights to do that. You might learn it too if you manage to see a real cheater.