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How do you feel about Winona now?


How's Winona after all this time?  

167 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Winona need a re-rework?

    • Yes, rework her entirely
      35
    • Sort of, give her perks a rebalance (think Woodie's post-rework rebalance)
      70
    • No, she's fine as she is
      62


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So... Winona. Haven't heard much about her in a while.
It's been nearly 9 months since her rework was released. She was infamous for being the most bland and pointless character in the game, but had a turnaround that would begin an entire SERIES of reworks.

Now... what do you guys think of her rework? Do you think she truly is a swap character?
Did the rework hit the spot, or does she need some sort of new rebalance like Woodie got?
Do you think that she suffers from "The First" syndrome*, and needs another total rework?

My opinion? She just needs some way to make her perks more exclusive, so that she's not a total swap character. But I've been wondering about this for a bit now.
No really, I lay awake at night.

What do you guys think?

*The First syndrome: When game developers do a series of things, and get more experienced as they do them. The only issue, is that the first one(s) can be seen as less good than the others. Due to it being the first, and therefore made when the developers had the least experience making that series of things.

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She's boring, she has two niches and one of them isn't worth getting. (Catapults and spotlights)

Her perks aren't all that indepth too, and don't really progress with the world at all.

Ideas: Allow "Mods" to be crafted and swapped out for existing buildings that buff certain aspects of them, only winona can transfer mods.

Example: Daylight sensor for some generators, so that they aren't active during the day.

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Make her Spotlight a Boat Kit item exclusive to Winona only she can craft and only she can use.

it can only be placed on Boats, but it provides a permanent light source and acts similar to having a spy glass to view further away in distance.

This would give Winona more of a vital role, At least when it came to who you want on your boat trip with you.

Also, maybe her Duct Tape can be used as Boat Patches? 

 

These Reworks were added prior to Boats becoming a thing in DST, so perhaps consider adding some boat specific abilities for some of the cast.

I expect this when it comes to Walani & Woodlegs (If they’re added like Warly)

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I mean...before the reworks in general, she was basically Wilson, so she's more interesting than that at least.
The followup rebalance after her rework was helpful...but ultimately she's remained a build-and-swap character.


I don't really like the idea of making the whole electrical system exclusive, but I get where people are coming from when they suggest it; and it's one of the few possibilities for handling her problem without a bunch of effort.
I think her central problem is that her moment-to-moment gameplay isn't interesting. She can build machines and craft tape, sure, but that's a one time thing, the machines can be used by anyone, and the tape is a glorified sewing kit that can be built up once and forgotten just like the machines.
When it comes to uniqueness in her constant gameplay, she can craft things a bit faster...and that's it.

She needs more reason for players to stay as Winona. It could be specifically being the only character who can repair armor/tools using tape. It could be faster gathering due to experience working with her hands. Heck, more machines could help (and I really hope that she ends up reverse-engineering some machines left in the world by Wagstaff). Even better, ways to use the machines that only she can do, like manually targeting/changing machine behavior modes.
There are quite a few possibilities, if there's willingness to make the time investment.

 

Personally, since her trailer release, I think her personality is spot-on for what kind of person she is. Her gameplay just needs a face lift.
If I'm being honest, I think that all of the characters could use a light passover to smooth out the messy edges/issues like this once the character updates are all complete...but Winona needs it the most.

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1 hour ago, Bluegeist said:

This is a current feature

Wow really? now that is nice!

I’ve not played Winona since the boat update but it’s good tape can be used to fix boats, that only makes logical sense.

She defiantly needs more though.. A lot of people have suggested an Anti-Griefers Role such as a welders torch that can repair structures other players have burned down.

I think That would actually fit her character persona TBH.. but I don’t know if it’ll be enough.

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I think what she needs has a little less to do with her, but more to do with the world.  I think they should make a tech science tree the same way there is a magic tree.  This allows you to use lightning rods to harvest electricity, charging electrical doodads like batteries to then plug into certain structures to power them.  Everyone could use a lightning rod to harvest the electricity, and create some devices which utilize this power to enable certain structures - the power of Winona then is that she can fuel these with other sources of power rather than lighting harvesting.

By binding the ability to fuel the structures to her, rather than simply the building of them, she then becomes the "I like to use tech" character rather than "swap => build tech => leave"

She could still have some personal tech contraptions only available through her, but I think changing her perk to be the ability to fuel these devices more easily rather than simply create them will change the way in which she is picked and played.  Also the more rare commodity of fueling these devices without her might allow for a bit more powerful tech.

Anyone concerned about how lightning might be abused by Wickerbottom could just consider that while she can summon lightning, there is no reason to presume a lightning rod would produce more power from being struck multiple times before being harvested.  If every cast of her book yielded a single charged electrical doodad, just as any random lightning strike could, then I don't think it would be too exploitable as to override Winona's easy access to power.

Also............................ buff searchlight.

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2 hours ago, maradyne said:

She needs more reason for players to stay as Winona. It could be specifically being the only character who can repair armor/tools using tape. It could be faster gathering due to experience working with her hands. Heck, more machines could help (and I really hope that she ends up reverse-engineering some machines left in the world by Wagstaff). Even better, ways to use the machines that only she can do, like manually targeting/changing machine behavior modes.

I know its a completely different game but comparing it to the TF2 Engineer, despite the fact that he builds static defensive buildings, you require him to get the most of them, repair them, and even move them around. I'm not saying we should need her to repair them or operate them, but a more dynamic and organic role would be much more interesting, design wise.

I think her buildings got slightly buffed by the addition of boats since you can move them to other positions, but still the amount of things you can use them for at the seashore and at the ocean are very limited at this point. 

Perhaps a "mini sentry", a smaller and less effective version of the catapults that can be carried around, deployed, used, and then taken again could be more interesting (sort of how Warly's portable crockpot works, and letting her know how to operate it only). Or even a small clockwork, armed with a small catapult, that consumes Nitre to move around and deactivates after a few minutes. A specialized clockwork that does boring tasks (not necessarily to fight or to mine/chop) would be an interesting thing to have too, like a clockwork to pick up things off the ground, fertilize and replant your farms, dry and collect dried meat, etc. It would just do that thing over and over on a specific area of the map, as long as you keep it fueled. With time she could even create a chain of tiny robots that collect and move things across vast distances of the map, basically starting sort of an early automation process in the game.

The spotlights should turn off during the day, much like how pumpkin lanterns do, and even with that feature I don't see them being that useful. I honestly don't see any reason for them to exist.

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I always wanted Winona to be able to repair weapons and armor. They could totally remove trusty tape, and give her a craftable repair station much like Warly's portable stations, where she'd have to go to the station to repair weapons, armor, apparel, tools. Only Winona would be able to use it. It would make her feel more like a repair girl like her title suggests. 

Along with that, maybe she could place walls more efficiently at full hp instead of half hp like normal, and she could repair more hp to a boat with boards/twigs/logs, etc and she could repair more hp to walls with their respective building material.

Right now I just don't like how you can make catapults and just switch characters using the celestial portal to be better off. It'd be nice if she had more traits that made you want to stay as Winona instead of using the celestial portal after the catapults are done.

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If generators could only be refilled by Winona, for example, that'd remove her sole purpose of a swap character. I'd be such a small change but such a huge and integral one at the same time.

You could argue that this game is about cooperation and having each others backs (ie being able to refill the generator when Winona isn't there) but this isn't Dead By Daylight; not everyone should immediately know how to work a generator. (/s, kinda)

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I always liked Winona even before her rework but it's true that she was very bland before, not much different than Wilson so I like she has much more going on right now. Her buildings are fun, especially the catapults but I also like the spotlight more than many people give credit to them, since I think they are really useful for the chest area, bush area and grass area etc. I also like her base characteristics, which makes her craft stuff at light speed but she also needs a lot more hunger satisfaction now and you often want your hunger high. With her, crafting dozens of Tooth Traps is very easy. People often disregard that perk but the convenience of fast building and crafting alone is enough of a reason for me to not switch her out with other characters, it translates well to the late game, when you want to craft 120 Blow/Sleep/Electric darts and other stuff.

But, there is always room for improvement. 

2 hours ago, Canis said:

If generators could only be refilled by Winona

^this suggestion is often put forward in these discussions but I find it a bit to harsh. But what I'd like is if Winona, and only Winona, would be able to turn her generators on and off like a flingomatic. This would make her buildings available to use for everyone but also make her have a unique advantage in using them; more control over them. 

Another potential perk may be faster resource gathering; through harvesting grass, twigs, bushes etc. faster. Though I don't think I'd be able to play with any other character again if I get used to her speed. Still something to consider I'd say.

A suggestion regarding her energy mechanics is giving her a cable turf, which could be used to carry one or more generator's power to different areas, which might be interesting if you ask me.

RWP 228 Winona's Generator 2Finally, this Potato Generator in her concept art might be added as a 3rd, organic generator option just for fun, since now potatoes are in the game. Perhaps this can be used to power only one machine but it would work as long as the socketed potato doesn't rot. They might be made with tape, frazzled wires and a piece of potato.

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The spotlight is just outright useless. I see no context where I wouldn't much rather have a firepit (or endothermic pit) which provides more lighting coverage, is easier and simpler to build, and is easier to fuel (wood is much more cheaper than nitre/gems).

 

The catapult is, from what I've seen, exclusively used as a boss cheesing tool. That's the only functionality I've seen it used for successfully. It's incredibly niche which means only one aspect of play truly appreciates it (the super lategame automated boss killfarms). And chances are, is that if you are using those farms, you didn't need them. You're far enough into the game and experienced enough to have survived without using them.

 

Winona herself hasn't changed much at all, they gave her some semblance of a downside to make her distinct from Wilson where she now has a slightly higher hunger drain than normal, but that's all she really has that differs her as a character from vanilla Wilson. Her perk of speedcrafting is still pretty much an insignificant-gameplay impacting power that just isn't enough to make her worth playing alone.

 

I'm of the opinion that the rework, while it was an improvement, it didn't really fix the inherent issues that lead to her unpopularity, and that it still needs changes to make her feel like a truly cool character to play as.

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17 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

The catapult is, from what I've seen, exclusively used as a boss cheesing tool. That's the only functionality I've seen it used for successfully. It's incredibly niche which means only one aspect of play truly appreciates it (the super lategame automated boss killfarms). And chances are, is that if you are using those farms, you didn't need them. You're far enough into the game and experienced enough to have survived without using them.

You can use it for cheesing hounds too, it's better than resetting traps for 10 minutes.

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Winona serves one purpose, catapults.

Her spotlight is so pointless it's a hard "Do the developers play their own game?" kind of moment trying to rationalize its existence.

If Winona had maybe three or four new viable structures, and an actual downside beyond her awkward hunger mechanic, then maybe.

Now that her rework has passed it's unlikely she'll ever be fixed. Especially considering that the developers starkly refuse to rebalance older content in general beyond these character reworks. They aren't concerned by the fact that half or more of the items in this game are not worth using so why would Winona get special treatment in comparison.

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I believe a few new gadgets could really bring her inventive perk to life, I did a little illustration to show off a few building concepts:

image.png.fd94e257e00dc6ac7fe5217dd415b54c.png

 

The Splash-O'-Brella

Provides improved shade similarly to a tree, and acts as a sprinkler if fueled with ice or when it collects rainwater passively. The sprinkler function can be toggled on or off. The sprinkler makes crops grow at an increased rate, and protects nearby natural resources (twigs, grass, bushes, etc.) with overheat protection. Overheat protection does not apply to buildings, as to not remove the Ice Flingo's purpose.

Crafting Recipe: 1x Trusty Tape, 1x Ice Cube(?), 3x Boards

The Handy Hammeratic

image.png.6aaa4acb6852031ad3c093176c87ff53.png

Repairs specific tools, weapons, and armor to 100% durability if there is an active hammer loaded into the machine, each repair takes up 20% durability of the currently loaded hammer (5 uses), and repairs will cease if there isn't a hammer equipped by the machine.

Crafting Recipe: 3x Trusty Tape, 2x Gears, 3x Cut Stone

 

(I just want to see some more advanced contraptions from Winona to make use of her Engineering tab, hehe.)

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Winona is fundamentally broken in worst meaning of that word.

Her perks do not make her gameplay unique! 

Compare Wendy, WX and Wigfrid gameplay. Completly different approach.

Compare Winona and Wilson. They are the same.

Compare another inventor with special recipes - Wagstaff.

Wagstaff

Telipad & telebrella - allow to travel, building your-own wormhole network. Changes gameplay.

Thumper - allows you to harvest trees quickly, at last. Improves tedious chopping.

Glasses - shortsight changes the way you use head slot. Greatly changes gameplay.

His downside is food debuff. Forcing him to eat only crock pot food. Telepad & telebrella are used to return to base more often to cook. Changed gameplay!

Winona

Trusty tape - sewing kit with another recipe. Nothing.

Spotlight - too weak. Even if it is buffed - design-wise it's just another light sourse. Nothing.

Catapult - the only unique thing about Winona, It even has some tactics around it. But that's too little. 

Her downside is hunger depleted for fast crafting. Does it really change gameplay? I think not.

My main point is: Winona crafts being exlusive to her doesn't make sense as they do not add up anything unique to character herself.

1. Make all her crafts available for everyone.

2. Add new perks to Winona.

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1 hour ago, Axelocke said:

I believe a few new gadgets could really bring her inventive perk to life, I did a little illustration to show off a few building concepts:

image.png.fd94e257e00dc6ac7fe5217dd415b54c.png

 

The Splash-O'-Brella

Provides improved shade similarly to a tree, and acts as a sprinkler if fueled with ice or when it collects rainwater passively. The sprinkler function can be toggled on or off. The sprinkler makes crops grow at an increased rate, and protects nearby natural resources (twigs, grass, bushes, etc.) with overheat protection. Overheat protection does not apply to buildings, as to not remove the Ice Flingo's purpose.

Crafting Recipe: 1x Trusty Tape, 1x Ice Cube(?), 3x Boards

The Handy Hammeratic

image.png.6aaa4acb6852031ad3c093176c87ff53.png

Repairs specific tools, weapons, and armor to 100% durability if there is an active hammer loaded into the machine, each repair takes up 20% durability of the currently loaded hammer (5 uses), and repairs will cease if there isn't a hammer equipped by the machine.

Crafting Recipe: 3x Trusty Tape, 2x Gears, 3x Cut Stone

 

(I just want to see some more advanced contraptions from Winona to make use of her Engineering tab, hehe.)

Absolutely awesome artwork mate! it looks exactly like actual Dev's concept art. High tier quality.

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My ideas for additions to Winona:

  • She could be able to "tune" structures - I mean changing the skin of a placed structure. I know, it's only a cosmetic thing, but there are many people who like to design nice bases or make the bases more consistent or change something from time to time (even on public servers, where people building with different skins). She also could be able to copy the skin of a built structure and use it on another structure, even if the player don't own the skin (but just for this server).
  • She also could be able to upgrade some structures, like Ice Flingomatic (larger range, energy extraction from sun at day or not extinguishing fire pits etc.) or Ice Box (+3 inventory slots or 3 freezer slots slowing down spoilage very strong).
  • New machines:
    • Automatic Cooker: Filling a stack of food and fueling the cooker will result in the cooked version of the food item within seconds.
    • Automatic Refiner: Similar to cooker, but for items from the refinement tab.
    • Drying Machine: Drying a stack of food (should require some more harder to get ressources, as you don't have to build that much drying racks)
    • Alarm sensor: Can be placed somewhere and filled with a flare. When an agressive mob entering it's range, the flare will be shot. Could be programmable (like selecting a specific mob).
  • Her machines could get out of order after a while, so Winona have to repair them from time to time.
  • New Winona-exclusive item: Lifeform Scanner. When using it, a map opens and shows near lifeforms and players and their movements within a certain radius. Doesn't reveal map. Does have a durability, but can be crafted (with a green gem, a volt goat horn and electrical doodads).
     
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I agree with everyone.  I like Winona, but catapults are her only real value.  Once those are made for the hound trap and/or the bunnymen farm I switch to a different character.

Suggestions to enhance her:

1. She can craft things using 1/2 the material without the construction amulet.

2.  She should be able to produce clockwork on the surface using the energy from the full moon. wires + moon rocks + gears 

3. Portal robot  Shootis horn+eye+opal gem+wires   It is portal and can be moved  but only she can use it. It will protect others but only she can operate it.  It  can be used for Klaus but can be damaged by Klaus.  

4. Craft something that repairs Wx only she can repair him  wires + gears + gold

5. Armor that repels Nightmare Creatures. (Moon Armor) She can not use the armor if fighting the rook, bishop or knight or they will not appear.  The armor can lower the % of Nightmare Creatures for her and those close to her. The armor could raise her sanity during the Nightmare phase in the caves. It could have protection similar to log armor.  stone fruit + bath bomb + moon rock.

 

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