Starphire

[Woodie Rework] A Return to Roots: Make Werebeaver FUN Again!

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I_Link_I    499

Over all he now is better than before.

Also,about the "Canadian stereotype" Klei as a Canadian company has every right to make fun of canadians.

As long as you are included in the group you make jokes about (nearly)everything is OK.

Just let woodie be.

 

 

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Starphire    35

I'm with you @AileTheAlien. Werebeaver is enough for me too. What's more Canadian than the national symbol? Why couldn't we get Maple Syrup and Sugar Maple trees or some other Canadian motif than for them to recycle Moose and Goose who are already represented together in the Spring seasonal boss? I'd rather see them buff her than tack them onto Woodie as some afterthought. Woodie is a lumberjack and his wereform is most truly epitomized by the Werebeaver.

You could remove the Moose and Goose forms entirely and that'd be an even truer return to roots to be sure. I can appreciate where Klei was coming from. I even posted before the rework, when everyone was suggesting how they'd like to see Woodie changed, and mentioned combat moves such as a charge or tail slap then. It's like they read those things and incorporated them but perhaps hesitated about applying that to a beaver, and thought a moose would be more appropriate for a charge [and a (re)fresh change].

Beavers (the actual animal of the Canadian/North American variety) can weigh up to 71 lbs. Their average weight is 44 lbs. They can and will get feisty and charge when cornered/threatened... and with a flair/penache all their own. If a real-life beaver can pack a wallop, how much more capable 'wood' the larger than life (larger than human, assuredly) WereBeaver be? No need for an alternate Canadian stand-in. I mean Klei, in their own animated short for Woodie, certainly demonstrated that directly.

Given their depth of artistic talent, no doubt they wanted them to have a major hand in creating new content to feature in the Woodie refresh. Fair enough. We might have hoped that they'd have drawn in a different direction, but that's not to say it was without worth. While I think the Goose wereform would have to be completely reworked (especially to be combat-worthy) and could just as well be dropped, the Moose wereform does have some merit, and was loveable in its own so-ugly-its-cute way. The animations captured personality. So, IF they are invested in keeping some aspect of their proposed changes, and unwilling to scrap that work entirely, this would be a way to do so, as the Bernie/Ashley analogy exhibited. Bernie being analogous to the Werebeaver, and Ashley being the alternate addition analogous to the Weremoose; so long as Weremoose is simply a reskin of Werebeaver, it's an acceptable compromise given the current situation, and the community gains a customization option.

Also why the totems were presented as an option to replace the idols. What's more Canadian than a totem? It's also a wooden carving which fits in perfectly with the lumberjack motif and further incorporates Lucy into the refresh by giving her an additional role appropriate to her nature. Whether totems or wooden carvings, either would fit the theme better than a monster meat idol. Yes, that fits with the usual expections for a blood-thirsty werewolf, but Werebeaver is a twist on the traditional; a sap-thirsty, wood-hungry, vegetarian werebeast. Monster meat reminds me more of Wilba than Woodie but sure, if they're going to expand Woodie's combat abilities (which I think should be a primary focus that the Woodie refresh should strive to address) then perhaps being able to eat weremeat could be included in the deal.

However, none of those options are integral to fixing Woodie. Scraping separate wereforms and giving the player one unified Werebeaver that they can choose when to enter, maintain for as long as they like while being able to change activity (be it harvest, combat, or exploration) on the fly (in a fair fashion), and then exit at will, IS. Being able to stay in wereform and contribute for the entire duration of a boss fight (be given an option to improve your stats while in wereform and in combat, and be punished if you can't avoid hits) also IS.

What good is a Werebeaver that isn't allowed to fight Toadstool AND be able to gnaw down Sporecaps quickly for the team at the same time? The way Klei has the Woodie refresh implemented now, this IS NOT possible to do simultaneously. Everything is separated and compartmentalized in a fashion that completely hinders those 'improvements' from mattering. 'Improvements' that still render the wereforms weaker than pretty much any character, who can do all those things at the same time AND have the ability to improve their stats through healing/sanity regeneration whenever they want from sources such as food DURING a fight, AND all without enduring stat penalties on both ends (entering and exiting) or time constraints for use.

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thetricker1    67
5 hours ago, Starphire said:

I'm with you @AileTheAlien. Werebeaver is enough for me too. What's more Canadian than the national symbol? Why couldn't we get Maple Syrup and Sugar Maple trees or some other Canadian motif than for them to recycle Moose and Goose who are already represented together in the Spring seasonal boss? I'd rather see them buff her than tack them onto Woodie as some afterthought. Woodie is a lumberjack and his wereform is most truly epitomized by the Werebeaver.

You could remove the Moose and Goose forms entirely and that'd be an even truer return to roots to be sure. I can appreciate where Klei was coming from. I even posted before the rework, when everyone was suggesting how they'd like to see Woodie changed, and mentioned combat moves such as a charge or tail slap then. It's like they read those things and incorporated them but perhaps hesitated about applying that to a beaver, and thought a moose would be more appropriate for a charge [and a (re)fresh change].

Beavers (the actual animal of the Canadian/North American variety) can weigh up to 71 lbs. Their average weight is 44 lbs. They can and will get feisty and charge when cornered/threatened... and with a flair/penache all their own. If a real-life beaver can pack a wallop, how much more capable 'wood' the larger than life (larger than human, assuredly) WereBeaver be? No need for an alternate Canadian stand-in. I mean Klei, in their own animated short for Woodie, certainly demonstrated that directly.

Given their depth of artistic talent, no doubt they wanted them to have a major hand in creating new content to feature in the Woodie refresh. Fair enough. We might have hoped that they'd have drawn in a different direction, but that's not to say it was without worth. While I think the Goose wereform would have to be completely reworked (especially to be combat-worthy) and could just as well be dropped, the Moose wereform does have some merit, and was loveable in its own so-ugly-its-cute way. The animations captured personality. So, IF they are invested in keeping some aspect of their proposed changes, and unwilling to scrap that work entirely, this would be a way to do so, as the Bernie/Ashley analogy exhibited. Bernie being analogous to the Werebeaver, and Ashley being the alternate addition analogous to the Weremoose; so long as Weremoose is simply a reskin of Werebeaver, it's an acceptable compromise given the current situation, and the community gains a customization option.

Also why the totems were presented as an option to replace the idols. What's more Canadian than a totem? It's also a wooden carving which fits in perfectly with the lumberjack motif and further incorporates Lucy into the refresh by giving her an additional role appropriate to her nature. Whether totems or wooden carvings, either would fit the theme better than a monster meat idol. Yes, that fits with the usual expections for a blood-thirsty werewolf, but Werebeaver is a twist on the traditional; a sap-thirsty, wood-hungry, vegetarian werebeast. Monster meat reminds me more of Wilba than Woodie but sure, if they're going to expand Woodie's combat abilities (which I think should be a primary focus that the Woodie refresh should strive to address) then perhaps being able to eat weremeat could be included in the deal.

However, none of those options are integral to fixing Woodie. Scraping separate wereforms and giving the player one unified Werebeaver that they can choose when to enter, maintain for as long as they like while being able to change activity (be it harvest, combat, or exploration) on the fly (in a fair fashion), and then exit at will, IS. Being able to stay in wereform and contribute for the entire duration of a boss fight (be given an option to improve your stats while in wereform and in combat, and be punished if you can't avoid hits) also IS.

What good is a Werebeaver that isn't allowed to fight Toadstool AND be able to gnaw down Sporecaps quickly for the team at the same time? The way Klei has the Woodie refresh implemented now, this IS NOT possible to do simultaneously. Everything is separated and compartmentalized in a fashion that completely hinders those 'improvements' from mattering. 'Improvements' that still render the wereforms weaker than pretty much any character, who can do all those things at the same time AND have the ability to improve their stats through healing/sanity regeneration whenever they want from sources such as food DURING a fight, AND all without enduring stat penalties on both ends (entering and exiting) or time constraints for use.

write a best seller dude

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00petar00    49

Not going to read another thread bashing on the Woodie refresh, i was also supporting Woodie mains when they actually released him in such a bad state but it was just a matter of  tweaking numbers and it was fixed in like a day.

Woodie was obsolete for years and he finally is S tier and can join the group of strongest three survivors, he deserved this much after how long he was one of the worst characters.

Identity can be changed and modified, obviously every one of us that has a main character don't want the identity to change too much but it is still up to klei and there's no point in going against what they have done after they put this much effort into the refresh and all the forms, its too late for them to revert it and that is the reason why it won't happen.

Still his three forms are great and he is very versatile now and can make boats obsolete, i also consider him the best early game character now. He can actually play  with WG and kill bee queen without pan flute because of his charge clearing out the bees and it is also good for spider and splunkmonkies, this will make him useful in mid/late game as well.

Edited by 00petar00
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EsaiXD    793

I feel the people who replied should at least read what is being said. Though klei will be klei  and do what they will  This would have been an interesting avenue to direct woodie and his curse.
Woodie i feel has really gotten the **** end of the stick on many things.   Think about it  woodie has been redone 2 times effectively  completely changing his core mechanics. There will certainly be outrage considereing klei has  changed his status quo many times. This can leave to question what did klei actually want to do with the character. 
We will see what will happen in the future but I for one am for seeing the vamped up version  suggested by the Op  it has many traits early on and can also be useful late game  rather than it just being gimmicky.

I would end off with   an analogy  woodie himself is the embodiment of a tree. Many start off not knowing what to do but over time they build up their support and are able to do anything they put their mind to.

Edited by EsaiXD
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minespatch    58,616
On 9/19/2019 at 11:58 AM, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Can we get a TL;DR Im not patient enough to read 50% of a book, no offense but ye >.>

um.png.2869c22cafb36723028b6b587b95be22.png

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Why bother reading the same thread that has been done ten times before?

Honestly this is way longer than it needs to be, your introduction is 5 paragraphs long, that's way too long! You add way too many unnecessary details, they don't have to be removed, just put them in a spoiler, you make sentences five times bigger than they need to be. Some of these points repeat the same things in the rework post, why? Why stretch this post out so much? Why not put your ideas into separate categories inside spoilers? Why not put a TL'DR?

Edited by NormalPinkerton
Better wording
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JDiceArt777    103
16 hours ago, NormalPinkerton said:

Why bother reading the same thread that has been done ten times before?

Honestly this is way longer than it needs to be, your introduction is 5 paragraphs long, that's way too long! You add way too many unnecessary details, they don't have to be removed, just put them in a spoiler, you make sentences five times bigger than they need to be. Some of these points repeat the same things in the rework post, why? Why stretch this post out so much? Why not put your ideas into separate categories inside spoilers? Why not put a TL'DR?

Wait...you read the entire thing?!!! LOL
Cheers to you....

Edited by JDiceArt777
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EsaiXD    793
12 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Hmmm.... Not really. It's up to forumites to make their comments as clear as possible

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/guidelines/

"Communicate your message clearly: Using language, grammar, and tone that’s easily understood by others will help avoid simple misunderstandings and generally help with productive conversation." 

The post was written very well  i am not sure what you mean by that.

 

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Frashaw27    282
14 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

The post was written very well  i am not sure what you mean by that.

 

Being well written doesn't mean its good. You can still bash a goodly wriiten novel because the things written are bad. The intention for the rule is to that the responses aren't like a actual essay and should be written as consise as possible so that we can actually read it within the same hour.

2 hours ago, Chris1448 said:

TL;DR, OP wants to rework Woodie to literally just be his Singleplayer version.

No.

I just included this to say thanks to @Chris1448 for reading and tl;dring it and thus will be basing my opinions on that as I really don't want to read this, of the op wanted me to read the whole thing, it should have been shorter.

Woodie's new transformations most certinly deviate from sp's Jack of all trades beaver, but I feel as though it was for the better. Having a form dedicated to each aspect allows them to new uniqe abilities and excel at what they where designed as. Say what you want about the moose and goose, but you have to admit that being able to barrel though a bunch of spiders as a moose and becoming jesus incarnate with the goose does bring versatility and uniqueness to all of his transformations that excentates their roles. The beaver also got buffed by the fact that his biggest threat, treeguards, no longer spawn from him eating the trees. I would much rather have this fun, unique, and strategic woodie then the contradicting woodie we had before. His 3 new forms help bring verity and character to him by adding 2 more popular canadian animals to his lunar roster that make sense in gameplay terms, while the old beaver was the jack of all, master none. You had to chop trees in order just to trigger the transformation, let alone maintain and use effectively.

Also after actually reading it for myself there are a few problems. It shouldn't take 100 full mature trees just to get the werebeaver. The werebeaver could get boosted stats but the ones you presented would actually break any balence this game had while in beaver form. Your ideas are fun and unique, but they would be borderlone too powerful or too rare to even notice a difference thats not on a full moon.

Tl;dr: I would rather have 3 masters of one, then the one jack of none. 

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CaptainChaotica    4,271
On 9/18/2019 at 9:00 PM, minespatch said:

I'm sure Warly would kill Woodie for that.:wilson_ecstatic:

Oh nononono, you absolutely HAVE to draw a picture of them eating poutine _together_ now!  Maybe comparing recipes...I can just see it.  It would be adorable as all heck.  XD

As for the point of this original thing, um...I tried reading all that, I really did. As someone who's been made fun of for her long-windedness many times before, I tried.  But MAN!  That was long even by my standards!  

So I'll just say that...all I can think of right now is I kind of want _original_ werebeaver back.  That is to say, the singleplayer version.  Both the strengths AND the disadvantages.  I want to be a badass tank of a rampaging monster who then falls down as if dead and wakes up weak and disoriented the next morning, like a classic movie werewolf.

THAT was both fun and dramatic to play.  But I see why they took it out of Together...I think...

...Notorious

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