Ogrecakes

The more I think about it the more Woodies rework seems like a fundamental mess.

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x0VERSUS1y    3,270
26 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

...

Even having the ability to keep their inventory and look at the map isnt jmportant when you could have another player around to pick up your items and tell you whats on the map.

You still drop your backpack, you cant pick up items, and have to keep an inventory slot or two open for totems

...

A lot of us play pubs or community servers where other random people pop. If it were for were-forms or old were-beaver to lose all inventory and backpack as in single-player, you would be picked clean by random passer-byes - already there was this problem with chopping wood as werebeaver, when 1-2 players nearby started/followed you taking your chopping for themselves, sometimes even insulting you for demanding the wood back after reverting.

Ok with the rest though ..in some capacities.

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Ogrecakes    1,060
5 minutes ago, Sketched_Philo said:

That would imply that we can also pray for the reworks of other characters that didn't go so well. Guess we'll wait to wait another 5 years. No character in the refreshes was changed after the refresh release so I don't think Klei will change anything.

Winona had her crafting downside changed after her launch.

Edited by Ogrecakes
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Zeklo    15,963
15 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

since beaver got nothing new in his kit this update

Pretty sure this is new:

23 hours ago, JoeW said:

Werebeaver no longer spawns Treeguards and Poison Birchnut Trees

15 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

However, due to short performance time, the moose is better off avoided.

Moose has the same transformation time as Beaver. In fact, it seems to be currently bugged and apply the moose buff to the time while fighting—ie. fighting delays the transformation drain.

EDIT: Oh hey, looks like they disabled the forum easter egg that turned "moose" to "goose". Makes sense considering, but a bit of a shame.

Edited by Zeklo
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Butt Pillow    56
21 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

I told myself if this rework was bad, I was going to make a huge post like I had done in prior times complaining about Woodie/Werebeaver.  But, while the realization that they messed this up still catches up to me, I'll settle for comments on other people's posts.

Where to begin, where to begin...

 

I absolutely agree with everything here, But I could not help but giggle due to the fact I read all of this in Mario's voice. :wilson_ecstatic:

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1 hour ago, Sketched_Philo said:

That would imply that we can also pray for the reworks of other characters that didn't go so well. Guess we'll wait to wait another 5 years. No character in the refreshes was changed after the refresh release so I don't think Klei will change anything.

Except winona

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Allanzoka    13
3 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

Even the animated short was underwhelming, no story, strange artstyle, and isnt representative of Woodies new playstyle.

the art was nice but I agree with you on the no backstory part, I was so hyped for at least a glimpse of him before the constant.

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Atkvin    510

imo: I stand by that Woodie should have strong perks i.e speed & regeneration at night to encourage exploration and activity like Abigail's nocturnal strength encouraging combat at night, and offset by something like being unable to regain sanity when Lucy is not equipped or something more specific like decreased buffs from meals and preferring foraged ingredients

As for the transformations: I think they should be triggered randomly with eating wood instead (and living logs in the totem recipe) to fit with WOODie's theme more considering it was absolutely not explained why monster meat was relevant to Woodie and it makes transforming the much easier and less punishing especially with the forms as they are.

Transforming should have a sanity debuff but nothing more imo, similar to summoning Abigail, and should be extended by something consistent and easy to understand across all three forms, like eating wood or equipping Lucy. Also reverting to Woodie should leave you at 25% hunger and not immediately punish you with starvation health loss.

(also still havent tested but as 'locomotion' Moose should be able to speed carry heavy stuff like statues imo)

Edited by Atkvin
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Spirit Glow    83
2 hours ago, Mario384 said:

 

7. How Do We (Klei) Salvage This?

I'm just going to make a bulletpoint list of things which might make this more fun in the slightest.

- Let us extend the timer further for the transformations.  My idea is that certain actions in a wereform let you regain amounts of meter while also making the meter drain slower.  Therefore, it is up to the player to make sure they're able to keep the transformation up for as long as they need, while also not overextending it too much where turning back becomes a problem.  If they want to stay as a were-animal, they shouldn't be directly punished if the forms are designed well-enough, as there should be some weakness to each one.  I also personally don't think said weakness should be being unable to heal, as there's no working around that, and no room to grow in skill, it's just a mindless limit.

- The forms need more.  Werebeaver isn't in a good spot but is in the best spot.  Goose needs a lot more (let it swim and attack, preferably at the same time) Moose could be okay if you could extend the timer like above, as it's combat style might have some sort of skill-based factor to it.  I couldn't tell you right now, because the transformation doesn't last long enough to test it out.

- Woodie himself needs a downside outside the forms.  Right now, always being regular Woodie has no downsides and is an upgrade to Wilson, which is very poor game design.

- Alternatively, scrap the the two new forms and just work on getting Werebeaver right.  If you're really proactive, you can add the other forms back some other time.

This list is a very basic starting point to work off of, to get something really good would require more time investment.

 

Really hope someone from Klei reads this (preferably your whole post). I hope they can salvage the rework because ever since his nerf coming into DST, Woodie has not been the same. This was a highly anticipated one that failed to deliver. I think one of the more frustrating things about it for the players is that the rework has some glaring issues that could have easily been caught beforehand. Idk what kind of testing is done internally but some of the criticism (the constructive ones, not the rants) could have been addressed before hitting live. 

I think some of the concept is cool, but some of it gives the me the "who asked for this?" feeling. I love the game and I just hope the rework can be tweaked, cuz as it stands now I can say I'm thoroughly disappointed. 

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Dr. Safety    1,557

What if Woodie’s transformations didn’t go down nearly as fast, and doing things in his transformation (except goose) would increase the meter. He could go out of the curse at will if activated by a totem and his hunger would be set to the % of his food before transformation (to not use the curse as an easy way of filling food.) For example, you have 20 hunger and transform, get the meter to 50 and then transform back, your hunger would be 10. This would make him not an absolute food guzzler and his transformation would be able to be maintained to actually do something.  For full moon, you just have permanent random transformation the whole night. Mighty downside but at least it’s not tanking his hunger for using him to his potential

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Ermac__    72

The more I think about it the more I don't like how "cheap" his form is to get and how short (and impractical, but that's beside the point) they are. 

 

Since these forms are woodies main gimmick, they should be more special for the player to achieve, they should have significant downsides but be rewarding and unique to use. Right now it's like meh 2 mm and some grass and you get a log suit and a hambat for one minute(except your slower and can't heal and...etc), or you can move faster than a walking cane for 30 seconds. Like the mooses charge is a cool thing but I'd wish they expand on unique abilities for these forms more. Make it cost 4 living logs and a gem or something that's pretty inconvenient to get without farms.

 

I'd much rather these forms be more expensive, and be much more interesting to use when you actually can afford to transform, while the main experience is woodies human form.

Edited by Ermac__
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Mack Swell    1,693

The rework wasn't too bad personally. Woodie can still gather faster than basically anyone, unless you're the kind of Maxwell to spam out loggers at all times, which quite frankly isn't super viable. The were-forms, at least in practice, are supposed to be either randomly activated or intentionally used when you need them, hence the point of the idols. You don't need them to last super long if you are actually trying to use them for either express purpose. Yes, some of them are very limited, as the goose cannot attack, the moose can't really run, and the beaver is, at least in my opinion, sort of pointless for most anything. However, nobody considered, apparently, that maybe that isnt the purpose of everything. The goose is highly useful early game, as you want as many people as humanly possible scouring the map for literally everything. Your army of scouts can map out the entire area in a few idols, depending on the number of scouts you have. Running faster than a runner beefalo is not laughing matter, you guys. Moose form is a bit under, yes, but you shouldn't just be using it all willy-nilly. You have to know when a situation is worth using near-dark sword damage. Of course, I on't think it can kite very well against tougher foes, so if anyone wants to get into the realm of fighting bosses as moose woodie, be my guest. The Beaver, however, does very similar things to normal Woodie, minus the free "shovel". Beaver form is as gathery as woodie gets, since it cuts on shovel and axe crafting, or even using lucy. Also, default Woodie, while he technically falls under the OP scale now as just a baseline, and you can easily nullify any were-based downsides via caves, he will is trumped by Wilson in insulation. Woodie has a significantly less insulation value than Wilson can acquire, which is Wilson's only upside as a character. Granted, this is highly nullified by crafting insulation items, but Wilson still needs less to survive winter. More treeguards is entirely pointless until later on, but when it kicks in it works out quite fancifully. Although, unless you are great at managing poison birchnut trees, be prepared to say goodbye to trail mix late-game. Plus, in my quite humble opinion, magic is unecessary to survival. The short, though, feels more like a fan animation over anything of value. This could be intentional, and most people aren't picking up on anything on purpose, but it feels a bit off that there is no real lore. Maybe Woodie will get his day sometime, but for now, we have nothing.

Overall, the rework is perfectly fine, makes Woodie a more useful character, but it feels like a Willow sort of thing, where the best upsides don't tie in to the main focus of a character.

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