Cyberboy2000

There are certain guards with KO resistance, which reduces the duration they are stunned for. There are also daemons (Watchdog) which do the same thing.

I might be the only one, but I like that the volume's been adjusted, the default was always too loud to me. Now I can go up from 1 to 2 in the settings.

Problem with this is not every world has caves.

There's literally a type of goose called canada goose.

It's true, Woodie's short isn't completely accurate to his gameplay, and neither are the other character shorts. However, the other shorts provide new insight into the lore and personality of their character. Lacking that, I think we could expect more from a Woodie short.

Here you go: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198168515321/myworkshopfiles/?appid=243970&p=2 Joke aside, I am not hating on Klei. I am doing this out of genuine concern for the direction this game is being taken in.

We'll simply have to disagree then. Whether it's better with simple changes or complete redesigns is subjective. I will say though that I think it'd be better if the original characters were kept like they were and have the new characters be the subject of experimentation instead, that way fiascos like this could be avoided and you would never have to worry about people losing their favourite character. Like, Klei didn't even try to see if Woodie could be fixed with small changes before deciding that he should be recycled completely. I also disagree that redesigns is the best way to generate hype. If someone isn't too invested in the forums then they aren't going to know the difference between a small tweak and a redesign, and if they are, then they probably realise how much it matters to those that do play the character. The big part of hype for these updates I believe comes from the animated short and the in game promo. If you go into the youtube comments for the Woodie video you'll see that many people didn't even know that Woodie was being updated. Also notice how none of Willow's, Winona's, or Warly's shorts showcased the changes made to their gameplay. The idea that content updates have to be big, and exciting, and right on the first try, is the kind of thinking that lead to it now being almost one and a half year since the last tf2 content/balance update.

Indeed, they are more subtle, which is why they haven't caused as much controversy. With Willow, it turned her from a fire-themed character to the de facto summoner. Not only does a giant bernie feel out of place when put side by side with the original characters, it's just rude to Wendy players. Winona wasn't as controversial because she didn't have much of an identity to begin with, first because she's a new character who never had a singleplayer version, and second because in gameplay she was basically Wilson. Regardless, people pointed out how her new gameplay just boiled down to crafting and placing turrets, rather than asking anything of the player. Anyway, the point is that people offered simple, effective solutions to these characters, and they were largely ignored (until after the updates were released at least) in favor of stylish, over the top, new forms and craftables. Rather than addressing the issues, they decided to cover them up. I always felt that way and I didn't mention it because it seemed like everyone else was happy with them, and I don't blame them for that. However now my suspicions have been confirmed. I really do appreciate that the new original characters are more complex and diverse, but I don't want that to be at the cost of the charm and creativity of the original cast. It makes me very sad as a Klei fan to say this, but I am genuinely worried.

Are we though? Obviously no one believes that every new character is going to have a hundred different forms, but the trend we've seen with all of these reworks (not just Woodie) tells me that Klei doesn't think small tweaks and quality improvements is good enough anymore. They seem determined that every character update should completely change how the character plays, which is a problem when a lot of people still like how these characters play and just want the details tweaked.

We did not get what we wanted. We wanted the Werebeaver to be better. We did not want it crippled just so that two more equally crippled forms would fit into the same character.

I know you're memeing but this is genuinely what it feels like is happening.

This topic isn't about balance. I think everyone agrees Woodie needs a buff. I'm more curious about Woodie's fundamental design. Because I've only seen a few people that seem concerned that this new Woodie is so radically different from his old versions. Should Woodie's established lore matter to his design? Now, we don't know a lot about Woodie. That's part of the disappointement in the animated short, but it's beside the point. The point is, what we do know, is that Woodie is a lumberjack with a talking axe, and at some point he was cursed, turning him into a werebeaver. Nowhere in the lore is there a hint that Woodie has the ability to transform into something other than a beaver. It seems we are supposed to think he gained this ability because of the recent events around the moon and the lunar island, which, frankly, sounds like a total ***pull to me. There's also the fact that the beaver is supposed to be his curse, but aside from full moons, it's now really easy to choose between staying human or transforming. Should Woodie's established identity matter to his design? All the characters in this game (at least the ones from the singleplayer game) have a certain identity. Something to make them stand out from the other characters and make you want to pick them. Woodie's singleplayer identity has multiple facets, like the mystery of how to best manage and wield the werebeaver's power, or even what his secret is to begin with if you haven't seen Woodie in action before. Regardless, I personally think this new Woodie doesn't maintain his old identity at all. Ignoring the fact that his forms are extremely weak, because that's sure to change, the dynamic between Woodie and his forms has changed. Now that Woodie has (almost) full control over whether he stays human or transforms, there's no mystery in figuring out how to use them. Having multiple transformations I think also weakens Woodie's identity, because each individual transformation is now less special. Celebrating his new forms just because they're stereotypical canadian animals paired up with a stereotypically canadian character seems like a very superficial reason to me. Should Woodie have to plan ahead to not transform? Speaking of Woodie's identity, having to think before you chop was part of what made Woodie interesting. Now I know people are going to disagree with that seeing as that was a big point of the reason people wanted the rework. I understand that wood gathering is an inherently weak niche and one that is already close to cornered because of Maxwell, so I don't think it's unreasonable to want this drawback to be altered or tuned down. However, there is a big difference between to only have to think about something a little and not having to think about it at all, as with the current Woodie. People of the forums have celebrated that characters like Wormwood and Warly have interesting, impactful downsides. Yet Woodie is now a Wilson that's better at gathering wood, because there's no reason to use his transformations. Yes, I know his forms are going to be buffed to be useable, but that only worsens the problem that he doesn't have a significant downside. Remember, in singleplayer his perks were "Has a lovely axe and a terrible secret" implying that his drawbacks were built into the werebeaver. Now I'm not saying that werebeaver should be something to be avoided, then we'd just be back at his previous DST version. Ideally, I'd want the beaver to be tricky to use effectively and even harder to master, which brings me to... Should Woodie's design be simple? I like that the singleplayer characters are simple. A good design should tell the player immediately what they are about. Now that doesn't mean that every character should be easy to use, nor that some characters shouldn't be complex. I'd argue that some characters, like Maxwell, aren't as complex as their designs seem to imply. Also, just because a character is simple in concept, doesn't mean that they are simple to use. Look at wormwood, not being able to heal is a simple downside, but leads to interesting gameplay. That's what the singleplayer version of Woodie was. Even though the game doesn't tell you what the werebeaver does, as soon as you transform, it immediately becomes clear what it's supposed to be about. There was a clear risk in transforming, but if you knew how to use it you could turn it into an advantage. The last multiplayer version was not like that. Not only did human Woodie have lots of unneeded perks, but the werebeaver was counterintuitive. Now look at the new version. It's style over substance. The new forms look cool but they don't let you do anything you couldn't before. They add more complexity but they don't interact with each other at all. This is a trend we've seen with Willow's and Winona's reworks too, the team handling these reworks just can't seem to settle for something simple. Someone made an on point comparison to Riot Games (oh god I can't believe I said that). To sum it up: Should Woodie have multiple transformations? I personally don't think so. I didn't like the idea when it was first brought up, and even ignoring the clear balance issues I don't think merely buffing his forms would help. Unfortunately, because of how much time was spend creating the art of the new transformations as well as an animated short focusing on them I don't believe this update is gonna get reverted any time soon. Even if he's buffed to where he actually plays well, we have to deal with the fact that the Woodie I and many others loved is dead, and has been replaced with an impostor.

Haha good meme.