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Battery Transformer Infinite Power Loop


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While playing around with @Mullematsch questions yesterday on "Big Boy Power System Help," I stumbled on a way to create infinite power. A brief search in the forum bug reports did not reveal anything (I'll post a bug report after a discussion). Let's start with pictures.

5c6f8da1a5287_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2121-57-52.thumb.png.81a6dbf8952cfc6d6e49ab9deeb6997f.png

5c6f8da4a16ca_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2121-58-58.thumb.png.27ac011af3a5d7ba78fa6db7e27b8080.png

What are you looking at?

  • The 6 small transformers are followed by a battery (smart or regular) that never gets any charge, and then a smart battery switch that disconnects the 1kw line from the 20kw line.
  • The left most 3 transformers take all the power sent to them and push it out to the 1kw line, which cycles back and fills the smart battery switch.
  • Every tick of the game, the power essentially doubles. Read on.

The key piece that makes this work is the empty battery between the transformers and the smart battery switch. Remove this battery (which supposedly does nothing as it never charges) and the build responds correctly, with power being consumed.

How does it work? Not sure. (Edit: My current hypothesis is explained, with a formula, here.) I am guessing that the transformers try to pull from both the smart battery switching section, as well as the empty battery, and somehow successfully draw full power with half drawn from each. The build above effectively outputs 3kw from the transformers, but only drains 1.5kw (doubling the power in the system).  You can use the extra 1.5kw to power whatever you want.  Swap out the 6 transformers above for 5 big transformers (20kw of cycling power), and you can power 10kw of whatever you want (already tested it out). All of this can be done before cycle 10. Coal power?  Why?  Just use a wheel to insert a tiny bit of power into this thing, and then watch the power double rapidly (put the smart battery switch sensor really low to see it expontially fill).

Crazy?  Yep.  Anyone know if this has been seen before?  I know other bug reports are out there involving transformers pushing more power than they are supposed to push, but I don't recall them magically creating the power when trying to draw from an empty battery. Who needs infinte power from turbines anymore. Just use transformers and batteries. Haha.  Have fun tinkering.

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54 minutes ago, tzionut said:

I will definitively test this when i am home. Not for power because my 11 nat. gas generators make enough to power my entire base. 

I also actually count on the water generated by my NGGs so they're not stopping for any reason.

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8 hours ago, mathmanican said:

While playing around with @Mullematsch questions yesterday on "Big Boy Power System Help," I stumbled on a way to create infinite power. A brief search in the forum bug reports did not reveal anything (I'll post a bug report after a discussion). Let's start with pictures.

 

Crazy?  Yep.  Anyone know if this has been seen before?  I know other bug reports are out there involving transformers pushing more power than they are supposed to push, but I don't recall them magically creating the power when trying to draw from an empty battery. Who needs infinte power from turbines anymore. Just use transformers and batteries. Haha.  Have fun tinkering.

amazing.   I know it may seem silly but please create a bug report to ensure a developer sees this rather than just eventually a community manager.

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Thanks all for your comments. The promised bug report is now in. Do they use ratings/comments on bugs to decide which bugs to kill first? If so, please comment/rate like mad so they see this one quickly.  I really hope it dies by the next update. Feel free to continue any/all discussion on this bug report instead of here. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, tzionut said:

I will definitively test this when i am home. Not for power because my 11 nat. gas generators make enough to power my entire base.

 

5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I also actually count on the water generated by my NGGs so they're not stopping for any reason.

You can run them without connecting them to anything. :)  Just think of them as matter converters, rather than power stations. :) 

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46 minutes ago, tzionut said:

Thank you  @mathmanican this is the nicest bug i ever tested :) Free power for anyone. No dupe needed. This bug is the nicest. After it was the bug where you can go in space at any distance when you change the destination after launch . Keep the good work.

Don't forget the Borg Cube. :D

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1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Don't forget the Borg Cube.

The power generated with this new bug is nothing in comparison with the Borg Cube.  The Borg Cube still stands as the most ridiculous energy converter of all time (after debug and sandbox mode, of course). :) 

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8 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

This one also works. Maybe a  different theory

 

8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I think it's the same old NOT gate + switch bug. I'll make a test later.

I was completely guessing as to why it works.  I did however notice that if I delete the empty battery in my original build, the bug disappears. I've built this thing now in several ways, and a key bit is the dead battery.  I'll play with it more today and post several alternatives. Hopefully together we can track down the problem. 

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Here's the lastest update.

  1. You don't actually need transformers in pairs.  Current minimum build is shown below, which will barely keep 4 fridges continuously powered.
    Spoiler

    5c71cdedaa9ac_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2315-48-29.png.dae10ade394880e6099c26f55042d198.png


     
  2. Both batteries in the smart switch must be smart (even the non-controller battery).
  3. The dead battery can be smart, big, or tiny. Doesn't matter. The result is the same.
  4. Extra batteries amplify the effect, though it appears you cannot exceed the transformer output rating

In the picture below, I ran several tests.  With 1 battery, you can reliably power 16 fridges (the tiles mark 8 fridges). With 2 dead batteries, you can power 21 (almost 22 - just shy of it). With 3 dead batteries, you can power 24 fridges.  With 8 dead batteries, you can power 29. I'll be building tiny batteries for this exploit from now on.

5c71c8fe17d23_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2315-27-32.thumb.png.2545a049a4e22e29d92edf42bc103b2c.png

I'm guessing that as I increase the battery count, I'll approach powering 33 fridges (120*33 = 3960).  Might take a few hundred batteries to get this close. Hmm.. Give me a sec. Ok, so 59 batteries easily powers 32 fridges, but will not keep up with 33. With 96 fridges, it's still barely not enough. 

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circuit1.thumb.jpg.0c4e42ccb6e2439f208a9f98b3404e90.jpg

There are two batteries in both flickering circuit patterns created by the switch.
But I don't know why only the second empty(dead) battery can improve the power.

Battery2.gif.3d013cb78a3e1193a0cbcf9c34a6dde1.gif

Why can only second empty(dead) battery do the role of 3rd(or 4th) Duplicant's manual generator?

RunDrum01.thumb.gif.5b58088273118367775c78dea9409e39.gif

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1 hour ago, Crapig said:

But I don't know why only the second empty(dead) battery can improve the power.

That's precisely why I definitely call this a bug, not an exploit of game mechanics. It was posted in the new release forum, as well as in the bug tracker, so I hope the devs see and fix it soon. I'm glad you had fun playing with this. It's quite wonky.  Power is no longer an issue though. 

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5 hours ago, nakomaru said:

If I understand how the bug works, it should be in fact 17.2 kW surplus but I haven't needed to confirm.

Well..., I'd go with 17.1428571428571428571428571...kW (a little less), minus the drain from the smart batteries (I'll neglect it - or just count it towards the power drain). :)  Sounds like you understand the bug the same way I do, and this matches with my experiments. Basically, the bug just has transformers draw equal amounts of power from every battery type (dead or alive), provided at least one battery has stored power. 

For those who want the formula, here's how we got this 17.2kW.

  • At all times, the 5 transformers draw power from 7 batteries (6 dead tiny batteries and 1 smart battery). 
  • Of the drawn power (20kW), one battery needs to be filled at all times (assuming you are drawing max power), so 1/7 of the drawn power is required to refill the draining battery.
  • This leaves 6/7 of the 20kW (so 6/7*20=17.14kW) as usable power.
  • You could spike above this total in small bursts, without any problem, provided your average was under 17.14 kW.  As long as your battery never actually empties, it will replenish itself. For this reason, I set my smart batteries at 80/50 instead of 80/20, just to deal with potential spikes in power usage, and add an extra smart battery on the charging side to deal with larger loads.
  • If you only have 1 dead battery, then you have a 10kW power plant.  If you have 2 dead batteries, then you have  2/3*20 = 13.333kW power plant.  With 3 dead batteries you get 3/4 *20 = 15kW power plant.  With 9 dead batteries you get a 9/10*20=18kW power plant, etc. 

@nakomaru, if you want to abuse this even more, then you can submerge the batteries in tiny amounts of liquid (a layer of 35-70g polluted water, topped by a layer of 35-75g water - basically anything under 1500g will trigger this bug though the smaller the better - vacuum on one layer of liquid works too, but not all vacuum), and completely neglect heat created by the batteries and transformer. Of course, with a homemade geyser constantly supplying 3C water, heat management can be ignored. I use this on my kilns to keep ceramic production at 100% uptime, never needing to worry about overheating.

Here's more info.

 

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