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About mathmanican

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  1. I use a 10 or 20 second loop, created with a not gate followed by a buffer which then connects to manual gens - same setup as a tricked tepidzer. On x3 speed, they check for new work every time automation kicks them off. If they find no work, then the jump back on, start running again, and the lights connected to my wheels start glowing. On Alt+z speed, the first time automation turns off the wheel, the wheel stops. The dupes stay on the wheel, but stop running. They never start running again, but their stats still climb. The picture you see below is basically what my dupes look like in this situation, until someone hits break time, or I swap to x3 speed. And to top it all off, I like to make them breathe slime air, just to help teach them to stop being idle. Doesn't work. They keep coming back. @goatt, I love the new icon. Though I feel like you're staring at me now.... constantly.... like my dupes trapped on their wheel....
  2. Bubble pumps (stuff air under water and let it bubble up) and bead pumps (put a liquid bead over gas and let it fall) are both 100% part of the ONI universe. I agree completely that they should not disappear. I wouldn't consider them a bug at all. Maybe an exploit of game mechanics (more efficient than current machines), but we exploit principles of physics and engineering to do our bidding all the time in real life. Both could be eliminated if they made ALL falling liquids disappear and move via teleportation. However this would have quite crazy unintended side effects all over the map, and make the matter converter problem massive. So I'm guessing these pumps are here to stay.
  3. Insulation Flaking

    I've got all my experiments done to build a Tungsten factory. Tomorrow I should be able to finish it up and post (I'll start a new thread). I wanted to share what I found for anyone else who wants to play. To make 390kg of tungsten fall from a thermium door, the temp loss on 800kg of steam is between 4-5 K (wide range, but not perfectly predictable - it's a bug). One single run of making 100kg of iron ore from iron in a metal refinery provides enough heat to drop a tungsten payload between 3 and 4 times. So for each time you create 100kg of iron, you can get a little more than 1200kg of tungsten. Not bad. Since a hydrogen rocket launch provides about 6 times the heat of an iron metal refinery run, you can get about 7.2t of tungsten from each rocket launch. The door pattern for getting the tungsten to fall is (1) disconnect the door from everything, (2) open door, (3) reconnect door to heat (while door is open), and (4) close door causing heat transfer to finally occur. However, upon a save load the door pattern might have changed (more testing tomorrow), with even lower temp drops (2-3K instead of 4-5, which means twice as much tungsten, maybe). This feels like printing money. It seems so wrong. Oh well, it's ONI alchemy. I'll start a new thread tomorrow when I get it all set up and optimized (or at least a start). I'll try to get the other metals setup as well. However, gold requires a 15K drop in temp (so basically you get an extra 100kg gold for each 100kg of iron made). Iron is dismal, being about 5 times worse than gold (but we get free iron raining from the sky). Most recent tests show niobium as more efficient than tungsten, with steel just a tad worse. I could probably make 1.8t of niobium, or maybe 1t of steel, instead of 1.2t of tungsten. Crazy.
  4. Well, that rabbit hole was underwhelming. The exhaust that you can capture in the bottom 7 by 3 area (bunker, vacuum, then any tile with 6 layers of steam below it, is enough to raise 2100kg of steam an average of 36.3K. This is about the same as 6 runs of iron ore through a metal refinery. While not terrible, it does provide a continual source of heat. If landing produces the same amount, then double this.
  5. Been playing with this for the last hour or so. I found that the 9 tiles under the engine all get heated up, including INSULATED INSULATION tiles. This is the only way I've seen in game to actually heat one of these tiles up. => Once you get one of these insulated insulation tiles heated up past 500K, you could rebuild the rocket somewhere else and put a steam turbine on the tile. Repeat all over the map (it would only take 6 launches to get the middle tile up to 252 (raises 38.9 C each launch) - or 11 launches to get the two side tiles up hot enough (raise 20.4C each launch) and then build 2 turbines side by side). If the thing repeats the heating on landing, then half all these numbers (haven't waited for a return yet). Perfect info. Thanks. I'm currently calculating exactly how many DTUs I can capture in perfect insulation with each launch (got a checkerboard pattern under the rocket to measure it). I'll report when I've got the totals. I can see how you would use a top layer of bunker, 1 tile vacuum layer under it with something else and then steam in the 3 wide by 7 tall region under that. @Oozinator, please don't be too disappointed in me. I actually built a rocket (in debug)....
  6. I decided on the exact same approach. Funnily enough for me, when I play on x3 speed they actually stop and check for new tasks. If I play on AltZ speed, then they stop, but don't get off the wheel, don't start running again (so no heat is generated), but they still level up both athletics and tinkering, but with zero heat generation. When I want a dupe to do something, I disable Alt+Z speed and then reenable it after I get a dupe moving. I assume this is an artifact of my slow computer.
  7. The hard part is that they've stopped responding to bug reports. They don't acknowledge most of them in the bug tracker, though they have occasionally acknowledged them in the player forums. There is no two way communication on the issue.
  8. Was hoping to print it enmass. This works of course. I would be happy with another "Stupid Dirt Cooker 2000." That was a pretty fun post. Maybe a "Stupid Tungsten Cooker 3500"
  9. You'd be surprised at some of the crazy things I've seen insulated ceramic do. Thanks for the quick reply. Hopes and dreams dashed. Why do this have to be realistic!!!!! Whelp. Back to the drawing board. Thanks all for the help.
  10. Are your tiles completely isolated from the rest of the map so they cannot exchange heat with anything else? Do you have >1500g in each tile, or are they close to vacuum (weird things happen with heat transfer when cell contents are low - by design in the code) or are they metal tiles for super fast heat transfer? Have you done isolated tests? Anyone done some isolated testing? @Lilalaunekuh, this could be your requested heat source, but probably not. I guess the real question is, Does the rocket have a fixed amount of heating done (fixed as in total energy added, not fixed temp increase), so packing in tons of material can diffuse the heat bomb (realistic), or does the rocket create an instant heat spike, regardless of type of material and quantity (exploitable - even if it's not to 3200K)? The liquid pitcher pump cooling bug comes to mind, but that one, while still an exploit, fits in the "realistic" diffusable cold bomb category, not an instant "bammm - here have some stinking hot stuff instantly" category. Liquid duplication is the latter, but it's a cold bomb. The metal cannon is a "heat bomb", but not hot enough to be self perpetuating. Water Sieves and carbon skimmers are an instant heat or cold bomb - "bamm have some 40C stuff". The steam turbine is mostly a cold bomb (drop from high temp to 159.1C) but can also be used as a heat bomb (if tricked to run on cold steam via temp exploits). I would believe it if the rocket sent out 3200K temps, that you only see hit 1100C in your silo because you have near vacuum conditions at liftoff with bunker tiles to rapidly diffuse this heat bomb. I'd also believe the other.
  11. So If I were to cram 10,000-100,000kg of steam into each of those 27 tiles, would they all instantly become 3200K? If that's true, then we've found our infinite heat source. I may have finally found a reason to build a rocket and learn the mechanics, and start exploiting them. Please tell me that this is true. If I can get this much heat for free, then YES SIRREE I'm gonna build a rocket to exploit this free heat!!!! Run gas pipes, filled with steam, through these 27 tiles (obviously disconnected from the rest of the planet with vacuum) and take the heat where ever you want it. Run the heat through a metal alchemy factory and use the metal cannon to mass produce whatever liquid you want. Run the heat through a niobium door setup to get solid tungsten to drop at 2950K every few seconds in 390kg loads. Open close the door as much as you want, and never worry about running out of your heat source. Insta vaporize just about anything in the game. I do miss that iron forge post from 5-6 months ago (I tried hard to find it, to no avail - anyone have the link). Break the doors and see how long it takes for the entire asteroid to pass 1000K. Fun times. Let me know @nakomaru. You might get a friend joining you in space exploration (ok, not really space, but at least the by product of space).
  12. Agreed. However, if those DLC mechanics are Add PV=nRT to the game (remove one-tile-mechanics) Add F=ma to the game, and maybe even Youngs Modulus and other principles from statics and strengths Add convection and radiation to the game Add (insert other conservation law) to the game and you can pick and choose which laws of you want to keep, and which you want to remove, then that would pretty awesome. Basically, each addition, or removal, would be a completely different game, with a completely different set of assumptions, rules, logical loopholes, exploits, etc. That, in my opinion, would be completely worth it for DLC. If it's "Hey, here is some nuclear stuff that we didn't have time to get in the original", then scrap the DLC and just use mods. Now at 1188 hours of play time, this game is definitely my all time favorite. Even with the crazy exploits (which I love finding and brutally abusing), I'd buy it several times over. As a side note, every numerical approximation will have its own set of flaws. Finding those and exploiting them is one of my favorite things. As they change code to address one issue, new ones will arise. @Ipsquiggle, I do hope you can eliminate infinite power loops, gas converters, and liquid duplication (along with the metal cannon) before the final release, and give us enough time to try to break the fixes. Thanks for the amazing game. AMEN! I've thought about requiring students to purchase the game, as part of class registration. I haven't yet dared bring up the idea to my department chair or dean, but might someday soon.
  13. Lost Threads

    Amen. For this exact reason, I created "The Steam Turbine: Everything you need to know" post. The post has TONS of links to archived threads about steam turbines, all easily found through this portal. I'm thinking of starting a "ONI University" series that links tons of posts and helps people find buried, forgetten, threads. Sad that I even have to think about how to work around the automatic archival system. The system tags posts as "Archived" once no comments have been added for 3 months. I just checked this to confirm. Dec 19 comments appears on page 32 of the forum. Everything before this is not archived, everything after is, except update posts which get treated separately. If you want a post to stay alive, bump it once every 2 months and 29 days. I modify the steam turbine post every week or so, adding relevant threads that add something new to the discussion. Currently the post gets bumped often enough by others that I don't need to do anything. If a few months go by and no one bumps it, I'll probably make a comment about some new cool posts from others, bumping the post and preventing archival. If no new cool posts are added, and the devs don't address it by game release.... (hope lost....) Maybe we're close enough to final game release that it's time to focus on the wiki.... But then you lose all the fun discussion.
  14. Here is a more detailed explanation of what I believe the bug is, as well as how to compute exactly the power gained from.