mathmanican

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About mathmanican

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  1. Join the Kelvin Kinfolk.
  2. Did you ask him to show you other posts that use bead pumps as an efficient heat exchanger? I haven't seen them, and I've been following their development since naming them (see @nakomaru post linked above if you want links to more threads on the bead pump). Most people discount them and toss bead pumps away as useless, though they are the only pump I know of that can reach a flow rate that matches viscosity. Very useful for high volume flow. Your post was the only post in the last long while that I felt like commenting on. I wrote " @NurdRage ". It was a wonderful post, great to read, and something I'd love to see more of. Lifegrow can be a grump sometimes, but his comments are often very useful. Add your post back up (you may be able to get the devs to unhide it - just private message one of them and ask for them to unhide it). Here is a link to the deleted post, if they need it. Keep having fun. Realize that when you post, you may start a lively discussion sometimes, with arguments running on both sides about it being useful or not. Don't despair if one very loud voice goes against you. I still laugh at how many people came onto @Gamers Handbook's post about a new way to deal with distributing power, and they all discredited it as being done again and again (not original). On the contrary, it was a completely new take on power management that no one had posted about before, ever. Even a month later, people kept coming on to say, "this is not new", but it was. I'm guessing some people still don't see the novel approach, and discredit the thread completely. Their loss. You're onto something. With flow rates into the 100kg/s range, bead pumps have a lot of unlocked potential, though you'll find plenty of veterans tell you they are a waste of time.... Keep having fun. I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
  3. Kilns in a vaccum

    It was my post. I don't think may people have used/abused/exploited/known about the issue. i discovered this because I wanted to boil a tiny amount of crude into petro (didn't want to bother with an oil refinery for 100g of petro), so I figured I'd use a kiln to do the heating. It fails, because of a heat transfer mechanic that occurs for small volume substances (<1500g, see the post above, and R9MX4's (FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX) comments). Last I checked (it has been a month), this was still in the game. It's been there for more than 2 years (maybe even since the beginning), just not well known. You can abuse this pretty drastically by placing your kilns in 10g liquid (smart batteries, tepidizers, and more - not metal refineries). Anyone who thinks they are controlling their batteries or kilns by placing them in a small amount of liquid, and then cooling the liquid, is flat out deceived. They just don't realize they are abusing this temp clamping. Is it a bug? Not sure. It seems to me like an intentionally designed mechanic to prevent small liquids that pass by machines from instantly vaporizing. It also stops you from getting a 20g blob of CO2 (exhaled by a dupe) from suddenly jumping to 6000K. Can it be abused to run rows of kilns, with 100% uptime, and have practically no heat added? Yep! Why cool things down with an aquatuner when you can prevent them from heating up. Just dropping 10g of liquid on it. If the surrounding environment is a very minute amount of gas, the same thing happens. This exploit requires at least one blob of something to be over the machine. If you run the kiln in pure vacuum, then all heat goes to the machine and it melts down (as stated above by others). I've explored this issue a lot more since the post above. The vacuum setup requires at minimum a single tiny blob (10g) of liquid over one tile of the base of the machine. The rest can be in vacuum. I find it simpler nowadays to just cover the desired machine completely in stacks of 10g liquid. For example, I'll put a layer of 10g of crude, topped with 10g of petro, over all my kilns (which can be done in lots of ways to get exactly 10g). I use petro and crude so that a dupe who walks through with a 200C block of regolith won't vaporize my 10g water-flavor layers. You can even drop pacus in the room and they will happily live, and never move, in the lower 10g liquid. You can then double your kiln room as a pacu room (but beware of the dreaded gulp fish, as they will convert your crude to water, and screw everything up). Have fun. Hope this helped.
  4. It would not surprise me if this bug is related to @Saturnus's heat exchange observations that start on page 3 of this thread. Lots of really weird stuff happening.
  5. Build a few in sandbox. Play with them. Both issues affect the results. One tile is sub optimal as pressures dance around a lot and sideways shenanigans is not yet predictable. If you can fully predict it. Please share. I summon @Blazing Falken.
  6. Here's one more build. I think this one gets more than the theoretical max of 567ish (that you mention in your vid), though I'd have to do some serious stress testing to verfiy that claim. I'm getting over 600W periodically, though it fluctuates between 540 and 620ish right now with about 20kg/tile in the room. Assuming side-ways shenanigans is the real issue, then this build works in reverse. The high mass tiles are on the right (above the crude). Those also happen to be the cool tiles. So when temps swap around, you get cool temps overtaking low mas tiles, and high temps overtaking high mass tiles. Gets you extra power for free. The lower the pressure, in the room, the greater the difference in mass between tiles on the right and left, which yields more bonus power from temp swapping shenanigans. I dropped the pressure down to 4kg/tile, and now I'm getting this. (ignore the overheat issue. It occured from an intermediate step, but isn't an issue now). The 705W is not constant, as it fluctuates quite a bit as the side-ways shenanigans has it's fun. Rather than stress test it for 50 cycles, I decided to do a race. Which build can fill 12 batteries first?
  7. The "fix" above isn't perfect. The tile above the vent is the coldest and fluctuates greatly in mass, and occasionally plays shenanigans with the tile left of it. I'm getting around 500W with that set up, with 400kg of steam in the chamber. In your vid, with that single tile deleted, the thing starts and stops repeatedly. The single tile left of the vent gets things going, and raises quite high in temp (though not all the way to 555W). The liquid option provides super fast heat transfer (as you get a double bonus for liquid-liquid transfer). The more equalized the temps, the less likely you'll encounter significant sideways shenanigans.
  8. Well, it might not be exactly a "swap" temperature issues. It's not too hard to recreate. I started with 10000kg of steam at 700K. I'm pumping in 1kg/s liquid on the right. Notice how 5kg of newly created steam caused 10000kg to drop over 10K. A few moments later, another 5kg of steam caused the temp drop to 679K. How did 5kg of liquid, at any temp, even alter the temp of 10000kg of steam at all. It's shear insanity. Can we do this in reverse, using large amounts of liquid with small globs of gas? I tried several things, but was unable. The above idea is hopefully enough to help you track it down. It definitely seems to be a side-side swapping issue. I can think of a way to fix this issue for turbines. Just prevent the cold steam from transferring heat sideways. @Tonyroid, try using the f4 layout to see what is happening. The material overlay is very useful, and I didn't see you use it at all in your video. The tempshift plates help because they get the temps closer together faster, hence preventing as much sideways shenanigan transfer. Maybe that's what I'll call this bug - "Sideways heat transfer shenanigans." The liquid approach works because the liquid comes in and displaces the crude left. On the next tick, the liquid instantly combines with the steam above (you can see the contents raise 2kg if you are on slow speed). If you enable the material overlay, you can see this all very well.
  9. Hi @Tonyroid and @biopon. My initial thoughts on this were @Lifegrow's comment about the mesh tile. It's definitely not that. Here is what I've observed (or my best guess). Every so often, two adjacent (left-right) tiles with the same element will swap temperature, without correctly combining mass. I'm not sure how often, nor what causes it, though I'm sure we can figure it out. Why does this cause the problems? Simple, the 2kg liquid water dripping in will transform to steam (often in several tiles). The newly converted steam does not immediately combine with the existing steam, and it takes a bit to raise to the correct temp. The temp swapping can cause 400kg of steam to drop almost 10C, instantly, while less than 500g of steam raises 10C. Kinda insane. The higher the pressure, the more lost heat. First hypotheses (things to build experiments with): This requires a liquid-gas change to recreate reliably (for now), but can probably work with any liquid. Why? You have to have something keeping the gasses at widely different masses. Liquids push gas sideways very easily. A door compressor of some sort might be able to cause the reverse to happen (heat small bits of gas, and then combine them with large cooler bits). The swapping happens on certain ticks of the game (gonna build a tick counter with liquid to find the exact ticks). I'm currently building experiments to isolate, and reproduce reliably, this phenomenon. I've already witnessed it happen several times. If I can get it isolated perfectly, and it doesn't require liquid-gas phase changes, then the bug can be used in both directions (cool stuff, or heat stuff). And then we wait for a fix. It is definitely a bug. To get it fixed, we've got to isolate it, recreate it, report it, and then unfortunately wait....
  10. I posted about temp averaging and eating less than 2K steam, back when the new turbine came out. I also built a plan (Nov 2018), long before the new turbine came out, to circumvent this issue. All of these builds have been labeled as exploits by the community (no surprise). The November 2018 build left open the two sides, because people didn't like "port blocking". The new turbine reduced inflow when you block ports, so it's not really a problem. Being able to cool stuff way down to close to 100C was posted long ago. What I like, @Saturnus, about your recent posts on this topic are the recognition that you can greatly increase the temp of the material that comes in on one side of the turbine, provided you are willing to balance it on the other side. With 3 ports taking in 100C steam, you can get really hot steam through one port. This I have not been doing at all, but cooling stuff well below 125C I've been doing for quite a while (and stopped posting about it basically after the first few days it came out - due to exploit haters...) Or, you can trickle in tiny amounts of super heated steam to one vent, and let 3 other vents massively cool stuff below 125C. Or you don't have to trickle anything in. There are lots of options. Thanks for sharing. @Saturnus, I have enjoyed following your builds on the discord channel. It's great to see you are quite active over there.
  11. They draw power from the batteries and dump it back into the system. Without them, your batteries will never discharge.
  12. [Game Update] - 371502

    Yep. Always.
  13. I loved the video. You've got all consumers connected with regular wire, and filling batteries near them with power so you can easily automate things locally. I love the design. It addresses a question @Mullematsch asked long ago in the link below, and gives a nice local way to deal with the problem without long strings of automation wires moving all over the base. Nice work. Thanks for sharing. Now if the power shutoff bug would just get fixed..... I don't think I've seen a build that uses flippers/switches in exactly this way.
  14. This issue also appears in single element setups. The extra liquid always seems to appear at the microgram level (the .3 in your pictures above). My best guess is that the game, when combining liquids, does some kind of forced rounding that affects liquids at the microgram level. I'll be posting this experiment in another place, but figured I'd put it here as well. ---- Now let's look at what happens when liquid masses combine. Let's split the masses above into two parts, and then let the game combine them to see what happens. Paint 0.02 kg on a flat plane, and then paint 0.0199999967 kg above it. Let the game proceed and the two combine (showing 39.9g of water). No splitting happens. Paint 0.02 kg on a flat plane, and then paint 0.0199999968kg above it. Let the game proceed and the two combine (showing 40.0g of liquid). The game sends 10g left. =>When two liquids combine, the error that results from rounding appeared at the mcg level. This may explain why 10kg of liquid, when passed through some valves, produces an extra few mcg of liquid. Water clocks can be tempermental if completely sealed off, as they can produce (and I'm going to guess, delete) extra liquid if you are not careful.
  15. Power shutoff automation gets stuck

    More info here.