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      UPDATED - Studio Note & Rhymes with Play Streams Temporarily Canceled.   03/06/2020

      UPDATE (3/19/20): Just a quick note regarding the team at Klei Entertainment. As noted previously, everybody at Klei Entertainment is working from home due to the Covid-19 outbreak. Many of us have been working especially hard to help maintain operations as we all move out of the office and into our homes and with everything being done online, extra time must be spent in organizing conversations and trying to maintain communication. As some of you may know, we have a very open office and we are almost always in contact with each other as we go about our days. Some of us work across multiple teams and that work has become a bit more challenging for everybody.   That being said, at this time the transition has not caused any major disruption in our operations, but it would be overly optimistic to expect that we won't have any delays at all. We're going to have to be especially mindful about this in the coming weeks and make sure we don't take on too much work so we can keep things running smoothly.  We will let you know as we see how these changes affect our timelines.  Thanks UPDATE (3/10/20):
      The test yesterday went well. We got the whole office (mostly) to work from home without significant issue. As a result, Klei Staff that can work from home have been asked to do so until further notice.  This means that we will have to cancel the Rhymes with Play stream until we are all back in the office. This shouldn't affect anything else at least in the short term, but if things change I will update you all here.  Original Post: Hey everybody,  This Tuesday March 10th, 2020 the entire staff at Klei will be working remotely for 1 day in an effort to prepare the studio to work remotely for a little while if the need arises.  Klei is already set up pretty well to allow for working remotely, however we are going to have a one day "dry run" with the whole studio so that we can identify and avoid any issues or downtime that may arise should choose to implement a work from home policy due to COVID-19 outbreak concerns. Unfortunately this does mean that we will be canceling the “Rhymes with Play” Art stream this coming Tuesday, however unless the situation changes we expect everything at the studio to be back to normal Wednesday and we’ll continue our regular stream schedule Thursday March 12th. If the situation changes at all, we'll let you know. Thanks for your understanding.


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Everything posted by mathmanican

  1. Join the Kelvin Kinfolk.
  2. Did you ask him to show you other posts that use bead pumps as an efficient heat exchanger? I haven't seen them, and I've been following their development since naming them (see @nakomaru post linked above if you want links to more threads on the bead pump). Most people discount them and toss bead pumps away as useless, though they are the only pump I know of that can reach a flow rate that matches viscosity. Very useful for high volume flow. Your post was the only post in the last long while that I felt like commenting on. I wrote " @NurdRage ". It was a wonderful post, great to read, and something I'd love to see more of. Lifegrow can be a grump sometimes, but his comments are often very useful. Add your post back up (you may be able to get the devs to unhide it - just private message one of them and ask for them to unhide it). Here is a link to the deleted post, if they need it. Keep having fun. Realize that when you post, you may start a lively discussion sometimes, with arguments running on both sides about it being useful or not. Don't despair if one very loud voice goes against you. I still laugh at how many people came onto @Gamers Handbook's post about a new way to deal with distributing power, and they all discredited it as being done again and again (not original). On the contrary, it was a completely new take on power management that no one had posted about before, ever. Even a month later, people kept coming on to say, "this is not new", but it was. I'm guessing some people still don't see the novel approach, and discredit the thread completely. Their loss. You're onto something. With flow rates into the 100kg/s range, bead pumps have a lot of unlocked potential, though you'll find plenty of veterans tell you they are a waste of time.... Keep having fun. I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
  3. It would not surprise me if this bug is related to @Saturnus's heat exchange observations that start on page 3 of this thread. Lots of really weird stuff happening.
  4. Build a few in sandbox. Play with them. Both issues affect the results. One tile is sub optimal as pressures dance around a lot and sideways shenanigans is not yet predictable. If you can fully predict it. Please share. I summon @Blazing Falken.
  5. Here's one more build. I think this one gets more than the theoretical max of 567ish (that you mention in your vid), though I'd have to do some serious stress testing to verfiy that claim. I'm getting over 600W periodically, though it fluctuates between 540 and 620ish right now with about 20kg/tile in the room. Assuming side-ways shenanigans is the real issue, then this build works in reverse. The high mass tiles are on the right (above the crude). Those also happen to be the cool tiles. So when temps swap around, you get cool temps overtaking low mas tiles, and high temps overtaking high mass tiles. Gets you extra power for free. The lower the pressure, in the room, the greater the difference in mass between tiles on the right and left, which yields more bonus power from temp swapping shenanigans. I dropped the pressure down to 4kg/tile, and now I'm getting this. (ignore the overheat issue. It occured from an intermediate step, but isn't an issue now). The 705W is not constant, as it fluctuates quite a bit as the side-ways shenanigans has it's fun. Rather than stress test it for 50 cycles, I decided to do a race. Which build can fill 12 batteries first?
  6. The "fix" above isn't perfect. The tile above the vent is the coldest and fluctuates greatly in mass, and occasionally plays shenanigans with the tile left of it. I'm getting around 500W with that set up, with 400kg of steam in the chamber. In your vid, with that single tile deleted, the thing starts and stops repeatedly. The single tile left of the vent gets things going, and raises quite high in temp (though not all the way to 555W). The liquid option provides super fast heat transfer (as you get a double bonus for liquid-liquid transfer). The more equalized the temps, the less likely you'll encounter significant sideways shenanigans.
  7. Well, it might not be exactly a "swap" temperature issues. It's not too hard to recreate. I started with 10000kg of steam at 700K. I'm pumping in 1kg/s liquid on the right. Notice how 5kg of newly created steam caused 10000kg to drop over 10K. A few moments later, another 5kg of steam caused the temp drop to 679K. How did 5kg of liquid, at any temp, even alter the temp of 10000kg of steam at all. It's shear insanity. Can we do this in reverse, using large amounts of liquid with small globs of gas? I tried several things, but was unable. The above idea is hopefully enough to help you track it down. It definitely seems to be a side-side swapping issue. I can think of a way to fix this issue for turbines. Just prevent the cold steam from transferring heat sideways. @Tonyroid, try using the f4 layout to see what is happening. The material overlay is very useful, and I didn't see you use it at all in your video. The tempshift plates help because they get the temps closer together faster, hence preventing as much sideways shenanigan transfer. Maybe that's what I'll call this bug - "Sideways heat transfer shenanigans." The liquid approach works because the liquid comes in and displaces the crude left. On the next tick, the liquid instantly combines with the steam above (you can see the contents raise 2kg if you are on slow speed). If you enable the material overlay, you can see this all very well.
  8. Hi @Tonyroid and @biopon. My initial thoughts on this were @Lifegrow's comment about the mesh tile. It's definitely not that. Here is what I've observed (or my best guess). Every so often, two adjacent (left-right) tiles with the same element will swap temperature, without correctly combining mass. I'm not sure how often, nor what causes it, though I'm sure we can figure it out. Why does this cause the problems? Simple, the 2kg liquid water dripping in will transform to steam (often in several tiles). The newly converted steam does not immediately combine with the existing steam, and it takes a bit to raise to the correct temp. The temp swapping can cause 400kg of steam to drop almost 10C, instantly, while less than 500g of steam raises 10C. Kinda insane. The higher the pressure, the more lost heat. First hypotheses (things to build experiments with): This requires a liquid-gas change to recreate reliably (for now), but can probably work with any liquid. Why? You have to have something keeping the gasses at widely different masses. Liquids push gas sideways very easily. A door compressor of some sort might be able to cause the reverse to happen (heat small bits of gas, and then combine them with large cooler bits). The swapping happens on certain ticks of the game (gonna build a tick counter with liquid to find the exact ticks). I'm currently building experiments to isolate, and reproduce reliably, this phenomenon. I've already witnessed it happen several times. If I can get it isolated perfectly, and it doesn't require liquid-gas phase changes, then the bug can be used in both directions (cool stuff, or heat stuff). And then we wait for a fix. It is definitely a bug. To get it fixed, we've got to isolate it, recreate it, report it, and then unfortunately wait....
  9. I posted about temp averaging and eating less than 2K steam, back when the new turbine came out. I also built a plan (Nov 2018), long before the new turbine came out, to circumvent this issue. All of these builds have been labeled as exploits by the community (no surprise). The November 2018 build left open the two sides, because people didn't like "port blocking". The new turbine reduced inflow when you block ports, so it's not really a problem. Being able to cool stuff way down to close to 100C was posted long ago. What I like, @Saturnus, about your recent posts on this topic are the recognition that you can greatly increase the temp of the material that comes in on one side of the turbine, provided you are willing to balance it on the other side. With 3 ports taking in 100C steam, you can get really hot steam through one port. This I have not been doing at all, but cooling stuff well below 125C I've been doing for quite a while (and stopped posting about it basically after the first few days it came out - due to exploit haters...) Or, you can trickle in tiny amounts of super heated steam to one vent, and let 3 other vents massively cool stuff below 125C. Or you don't have to trickle anything in. There are lots of options. Thanks for sharing. @Saturnus, I have enjoyed following your builds on the discord channel. It's great to see you are quite active over there.
  10. They draw power from the batteries and dump it back into the system. Without them, your batteries will never discharge.
  11. [Game Update] - 371502

    Yep. Always.
  12. I loved the video. You've got all consumers connected with regular wire, and filling batteries near them with power so you can easily automate things locally. I love the design. It addresses a question @Mullematsch asked long ago in the link below, and gives a nice local way to deal with the problem without long strings of automation wires moving all over the base. Nice work. Thanks for sharing. Now if the power shutoff bug would just get fixed..... I don't think I've seen a build that uses flippers/switches in exactly this way.
  13. Sometimes the power shutoff gets stuck in the wrong state. This causes lots of problems in many places, but most often with battery switching designs. I captured the bug, right before it happened, in this save (hoping the exact moment at which the bug occurs can help you track it down). TestingGrounds.sav Here are some pictures to go along with the bug. Here we have two correctly working shutoffs. Notice that the "Enabled by.." or "Disabled by.." message appears FIRST in the tooltip list. Here is an incorrectly working shutoff. Notice that the "Inactive" state appears above the "Enabled by..." message. Whether this order difference is related or not to the cause of the bug, I did find the inconsistency odd (and hopefully helpful in tracking it down). Here are a few others bug reports of this same issue. I'll link to them all here, and link back from each to this post, to help with cross referencing. This bug report is stuck in the "active" position (it's not in a battery switching station, but is close to a battery). Here another battery switching station got stuck in the "inactive" position. One more, with a save file attached, to illustrate the same problem . In all of the pictures provided, the state appears above the "Enabled by..." or "Disabled by..." message, whereas working shutoffs always have the order of these messages reversed.
  14. This issue also appears in single element setups. The extra liquid always seems to appear at the microgram level (the .3 in your pictures above). My best guess is that the game, when combining liquids, does some kind of forced rounding that affects liquids at the microgram level. I'll be posting this experiment in another place, but figured I'd put it here as well. ---- Now let's look at what happens when liquid masses combine. Let's split the masses above into two parts, and then let the game combine them to see what happens. Paint 0.02 kg on a flat plane, and then paint 0.0199999967 kg above it. Let the game proceed and the two combine (showing 39.9g of water). No splitting happens. Paint 0.02 kg on a flat plane, and then paint 0.0199999968kg above it. Let the game proceed and the two combine (showing 40.0g of liquid). The game sends 10g left. =>When two liquids combine, the error that results from rounding appeared at the mcg level. This may explain why 10kg of liquid, when passed through some valves, produces an extra few mcg of liquid. Water clocks can be tempermental if completely sealed off, as they can produce (and I'm going to guess, delete) extra liquid if you are not careful.
  15. Power shutoff automation gets stuck

    More info here.
  16. Vole Pups do not auto-wrangle.

    I don't think any "children" animals are autowrangled. I use autowrangling to move adult dreckos around. When a child become adult, if there is room, I move them to an appropriate room. If there is not room, they are taken to the dump (for sheering and starvation). I could be wrong, as critter handling is no the thing I focus tons of time on, but that's what I've seen. Autowrangle seems to only apply to adults.
  17. ONI University

    It actually is. All sporechids on the map, in aeropots, trapped by glass walls above and/or below your beds, puts out way more decor than top tier gold statues, even with a loss of two walls to contain them. This is now my meta in sleep time decor.
  18. ONI University

    I think we should add it! I'm with ya. I changed all mine, thanks to @xialeth. @BLACKBERREST3, we should also start a list of Save/Load issues. Some things will be on more than one list, but this seems like a great place to start, and maintain, such a list. Oh, and @BLACKBERREST3, I vote you as dean of curriculum council.
  19. Power shutoff automation gets stuck

    Replacing the directly connection from the smart battery to the shutoff with an OR gate in between fixed my issue. Maybe this is a timing bug that occurs only with smart batteries? Here is a general forum discussion on this topic, with some pictures of this fix.
  20. [Game Update] - 364722

    The power shutoff still can get stuck in an incorrect setting, causing problems with several builds. I added a save file to this bug report that captures the error, right before it happens. Hopefully you guys can track it down. Two things appear in common in all places where the bug occurs. (1) a smart battery is involved and (2) the faulty shuttoff seems to have have a flopped status message (see bug report).
  21. automation power shutoff not working properly

    Here is a link to the same issue, with links to more reports as well (placed here for cross referencing).
  22. Power Shutoff automation BROKEN

    Here is a link to the same issue, with links to more reports as well (placed here for cross referencing).
  23. Here is a link to the same issue, with links to more reports as well (placed here for cross referencing).
  24. Care package Duplication Bug

    I recently found this. The bug was reported back in May. It's still there. It works with any item. The time window for the bug to happen is between when the item spawns into the world, and the care package despawns. If you are playing on speed 1 setting, it is really easy to make this happen consistently. I spawned in 42 shove vole eggs before I stopped and decided to try and spawn in duplicants in the same way. No luck. Seems only items can be duplicated.
  25. Unlimited objects from Printing Pod

    This bug is still here. And here is how it appears in regular play all the time: It's time to turn of my game, but I want to know what the pod will give me before I log off. It's 10 seconds away. I open the menu, discover I got lucky and got 3 shove vole eggs. I select them, print them, and then pause the game to save and quit. Later I load the game and discover I got 6 eggs, instead of three. Scratching my head and wondering what happened, I continue playing and keep wondering why this happened. I got quite a bit of plastic "by accident" one play through. I had no clue why. Now I know why. FYI Klei, I tried to reproduce this with a duplicant (because several people have been reporting extra dupes appearing in their colony summaries). I was unable to reproduce it (tried changing dupe names, tried different time frames of save/loading. As for this bug exactly, it seems the "time window" starts when the item drops from the care package (and registers with the game - so you can see your count go up), and the "time window" ends when the care package disappears from the game. Any save/load that happens in this time window will duplicate the item. Makes aridio and/or oasis quite easy, by accident, if you get 4kg of ice, and then accidentally duplicate it. Simple fix: Make the care package disappear at the same time the item spawns in game? Here is a cross referenced bug. Same issue.