poll AETN improments servey: How do you think about it?

[Madbro]

A simple survey ↑

I want to know whether you think about the AETN should be improved or not, I have heard some players said it can be not as useful as you think.

Especally,

1. Consuming Hydrogen

2. Can’t freeze most gases that you’ll need.

3. Freezing process is important in rocketry.

4. Cooling effect is more efficient when multiple wheezwort is used.

[Coolthulhu]

Why would you make a thread just to link a thread you just made?

People who don't care won't start caring just because you push it into their faces.

[SakuraKoi]

16 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Why would you make a thread just to link a thread you just made?

People who don't care won't start caring just because you push it into their faces.

Ironically, it actually proved to be effective since it is not the first time this happened (as in a certain very user doing this very certain thing).

[cpy]

Exposure is the key. You can have good idea but it's worthless if not enough people see it.

If it's a good thing people wont mind. If it's trash idea people will complain about it.

[ruhrohraggy]

AETN and wheezeworts seem fine as an early to mid-game solution to your cooling problems.

Big hydrogen consumer comes later in the form of rockets.

Good cooling solutions come later in the form of the Aquatuner / Steam generator wombo-combo, when you have enough power to sustain it.

AETN can also be used as a pre-cool to your hydrogen liquifying adventures as well.

I believe the intended purpose to liquify gases is put there so you have to make cargo runs to the planets for supercoolant. If the AETN cooled down to supercoolant levels, then supercoolant would be useless.

You don't need much supercoolant to make LOX or Lh2. 600-1000kg is enough.

[Lancar]

They're not really that useful.
By the time you get to the point when you'll want to use them they simply cannot provide enough heat deletion to make them viable over more readily available methods such as fixed temperature outputs of the sieve, or petroleum generators and oil refinery just deleting the heat of their input alltogether.

Add onto that the fact that you have no control over where they spawn and they're simply just a hassle to make work for little benefit.

[ruhrohraggy]

21 minutes ago, Lancar said:

They're not really that useful.
By the time you get to the point when you'll want to use them they simply cannot provide enough heat deletion to make them viable over more readily available methods such as fixed temperature outputs of the sieve, or petroleum generators and oil refinery just deleting the heat of their input alltogether.

Add onto that the fact that you have no control over where they spawn and they're simply just a hassle to make work for little benefit.

It will obviously be opinion based. Not only playstyle, but how clever you are at making use of the AETN.

This is why game balancing is so obnoxious, and why sometimes the devs refuse to listen to our cries. If you're casual, you're gonna want it easier, if you're hardcore, you're gonna want it harder.

I do kinda like the thought of making the AETN a blueprint. But you would need some method to obtain neutronium to build them.

I've been using this AETN since cycle 100 to make cold o2 and store a few tons of surplus hydrogen at 33F. It's kept my base at a nice 66 F for over 900 cycles. How is that not useful?

[SackMaggie]

I like the way it is. It offer good cooling but not significant enough to say "go out there and get it right now".

[Sasza22]

23 minutes ago, ruhrohraggy said:

I've been using this AETN since cycle 100 to make cold o2 and store a few tons of surplus hydrogen at 33F.

This is my go-to use for AETNs. Lately i don`t build electrolyzer setups until i find one. The effect might seem small but my bases don`t seem to heat up when my oxygen generation is near an AETN.

The use of hydrogen is minimal but it makes it an easy choice to place electrolizers close. Sometimes i feel like it could use more hydrogen for extra cooling as i don`t like just burning the extra production when it`s not necessary (i got 12 full hydrogen tanks at cycle 350 and i burnt some hydrogen already during nat gas geyser dormancy).

I like the idea of it being buildable. Maybe it could rely on a random chance to get some refined neutronium from space. Or maybe put some reined neutronium in the magma biome.

[SakuraKoi]

Fun Fact: AETN has the same space efficiency as Wheezewort in Hydrogen, the ratio is 20/3 (tiles) and 80/12 (kDTU cooling) after all.

[Lancar]

1 hour ago, ruhrohraggy said:

It will obviously be opinion based. Not only playstyle, but how clever you are at making use of the AETN.

This is why game balancing is so obnoxious, and why sometimes the devs refuse to listen to our cries. If you're casual, you're gonna want it easier, if you're hardcore, you're gonna want it harder.

I do kinda like the thought of making the AETN a blueprint. But you would need some method to obtain neutronium to build them.

I've been using this AETN since cycle 100 to make cold o2 and store a few tons of surplus hydrogen at 33F. It's kept my base at a nice 66 F for over 900 cycles. How is that not useful?

[snipped pictures]

Yeah, okey, I see what you mean, but sufficient core base cooling is easily doable with a few thermoregulators being cooled by the same water used to input into the Electrolyzer.
I've built many designs trying to make the most of the AETN and each time all they amount to is saving a few watts and/or falling short of the cooling amount i need, compared to just building something yourself that actually DOES handle it. There's simply no niche that makes it an obvious fit and desirable to work with, imho.

[KittenIsAGeek]

34 minutes ago, Lancar said:

Yeah, okey, I see what you mean, but sufficient core base cooling is easily doable with a few thermoregulators being cooled by the same water used to input into the Electrolyzer.
I've built many designs trying to make the most of the AETN and each time all they amount to is saving a few watts and/or falling short of the cooling amount i need, compared to just building something yourself that actually DOES handle it. There's simply no niche that makes it an obvious fit and desirable to work with, imho.

One of the advantages is that the AETN is effectively free.  The amount of hydrogen it uses is very minimal.  Combine it with wheezewarts and you have a virtually free method of cooling in the early to mid-game.   It is also a legitimate way of deleting heat.  Aquatuners and thermoregulators only move heat from one location to another, which means that to actually remove heat you must make use of a constant  thermal output device (steam turbine, water sieve, etc) or feed the heat into a boiler system of some sort -- quite a bit of infrastructure.  

However, early in the game -- especially with new players -- many of those methods haven't been figured out yet.  It is also going to depend a lot on the play style of the individual as well.  My personal opinion is that the AETN is useful for such things as maintaining your base temperature (provided large heat producers aren't inside your base) or other light cooling problems.  It isn't necessary or required to use them, but that's one of the things I like about ONI: There are many ways of accomplishing the same task.

[tzionut]

Allow to deconstruct and reconstruct else ware

[Echo_Hotel]

The AETN is fine at the current hydrogen consumption considering it's happy with the output of  a SPOM and a half. However since Slicksters were nerfed there is really no point in storing mass quantities of CO2. Compared to sieving 90c water the AETN is dead in the water

The only thing a AETN is good for now is early very very slow gas liquefaction.

[PhailRaptor]

It would be nice to be able to build more of them.  But there should still be some limitation of them, to prevent you from being able to just spam them at will.  Perhaps there should be an additional part that is required, but you must harvest them from other Ruins objects, or certain Space destinations.

For example, dismantling a Neural Vascillator (with recharges, you only need to keep one) could provide one.  Trips to Satellites could also have a chance to bring 1 to 3.  Etcetera.

[Lancar]

14 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

One of the advantages is that the AETN is effectively free.  The amount of hydrogen it uses is very minimal.  Combine it with wheezewarts and you have a virtually free method of cooling in the early to mid-game.   It is also a legitimate way of deleting heat.  Aquatuners and thermoregulators only move heat from one location to another, which means that to actually remove heat you must make use of a constant  thermal output device (steam turbine, water sieve, etc) or feed the heat into a boiler system of some sort -- quite a bit of infrastructure.  

However, early in the game -- especially with new players -- many of those methods haven't been figured out yet.  It is also going to depend a lot on the play style of the individual as well.  My personal opinion is that the AETN is useful for such things as maintaining your base temperature (provided large heat producers aren't inside your base) or other light cooling problems.  It isn't necessary or required to use them, but that's one of the things I like about ONI: There are many ways of accomplishing the same task.

While I don't outright disagree with you (see my first post where I noted the use of said constant temperature machines), the argument that they're useful for the early-to-mid game for a new player is hampered somewhat by the fact that the AETN units are randomly spawned, frequently in fairly distant parts of the map. Their positions are simply not reliable enough to depend upon for new players, especially considering they'll likely fail and restart several bases before they get the hang of how things work.

I stand by my point that the AETN as they are right now are not useful enough to warrant their use and that in order for them to be attractive, to both new and old players alike, they'll need to change. I would like them to be more powerful (in order to promote actively going after them and adapting your builds to their location), but of course the abilitiy to get a blueprint of them or move them around would also be good (essentially making them bigger wheezeworts in almost every sense).

Also, as a side note, I think you're underestimating the complexity of efficiently using the AETN =). You HAVE noticed how many times new people have asked why their AETNs and Wheezeworts work so badly for them on the forums, right? The answer they're given is pretty much always that they need to submerge them in hydrogen, despite that that the game already tells them to do it in the AETN tooltip.
This requires some temporary infrastructure and gas production to prime the system before using it, whereas a basic solution with aquatuners or thermoregulators does not.

Some solutions are of course easier than others, but the complexity in making them can be deceptive.

[TehPlayer14]

I would really love a material expensive blueprint of it

[Lurve]

Just make it competitive with water sieving.  Powerful enough to justify stringing a cooling loop across half the map for.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Ok since rocketry I never used an

AETN again.

 

On 13.12.2018 at 12:03 PM, Madbro said:

1. Consuming Hydrogen

So before rocketry we had no other use for the hydrogen except generating a bit power, so it was an "arguable fair" trade-off.

Now I try to save hydrogen whenever I can to store some rocket fuel

=> A need for hydrogen is now a worse trade-off

 

On 13.12.2018 at 12:03 PM, Madbro said:

2. /3. Can’t freeze most gases that you’ll need.

The AETN got a in my opinion not very usefull temperature limit since we have access to super coolant.

There are 2 cases where you could use the AETN:

A) You want some modrate cooling for your base / livable area

=> Why not spamm wheezeworts (on doors^^) since they are not limited anymore

B) You need some industrial cooling like to liquidity rocket fuel or cool huge amounts of liquid

=> Your forced to use an auquatuner anyways so you can run a turbine and create some additional engery or just vent very hot stuff into space

 

On 13.12.2018 at 12:03 PM, Madbro said:

4. Cooling effect is more efficient when multiple wheezwort is used.

Nothing is more efficient than a wheezewort inside it´s livable range.

=> The additional temperature range of the AETN doesn´t enable "new" use-cases

 

Without a limitation on the amount of wheezeworts the AETN lost his use in my eyes

 

 

[JackOverkill]

need more cooling power . lets add the need of power if we want to make things even colder . add many cooling level like a fridge does . 

but mostly just make it better to feed the need of rockets

[Xuhybrid]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:38 PM, TehPlayer14 said:

I would really love a material expensive blueprint of it

What if you could deconstruct it and it gave you an AETN charge that allowed you to build a new one. Kind of a weird hack but that'd be more balanced than allowing us to build 100s of them.

[Sasza22]

30 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

What if you could deconstruct it and it gave you an AETN charge that allowed you to build a new one. Kind of a weird hack but that'd be more balanced than allowing us to build 100s of them.

IMO it should be buildable using a special item that you get randomly from space. Maybe deconstructing one would grant it as well but then makie it require like niobium as well to be build so that you can`t move them early on.

[babba]

15 hours ago, JackOverkill said:

need more cooling power . lets add the need of power if we want to make things even colder . add many cooling level like a fridge does . 

but mostly just make it better to feed the need of rockets

+1

The MEGA AETN Pyramid (MAP)