Lore of The Real Gatekeeper

[The 2C3D]

Okay, I'm getting sick of ideas floating around in my head, so I'm going to codify them into actual, clear ideas.

1) We Are Impostors

Okay, I'm retreading ground that some of you will be familiar with. I think. But with the new forge, I'm going to reiterate this: When Pugna says we're the gatekeepers, he's wrong. He thinks we're working for Them to forcibly put the Forge's inhabitants on the throne, saying "have you come to return us to the throne?" The survivors as the gatekeepers is a simple case of mistake identity. The gatekeeper is long past.

2) The Lonely Gatekeeper

Now we're getting into things I've never personally heard before. (Perhaps I missed something, but still) There are a few Mumsy lines that teach us a little more of our curious gatekeeper of the past. I'm talking about these two lines: "Are you... Gatekeepers, by chance?" and "Another of your kind passed through here once" I would like to propose that the original gatekeeper operated alone. Mumsy hesitates before pluralizing "Gatekeepers" and only recalls one other of "our kind" who passed through.

3) The Power of Shadows

But wait one second. If one, lone human made it into the Gorge, that person must've solo-ed the Forge, right?

The actual Gatekeeper must've had nigh-illimitable power to ruin the likes of Pugna's Champions with nothing but two hands, no allies to revive them and legions with no-one to fight but you. Maxwell knows that "there is no limit to the power of shadows" and he's read the Codex Umbra, so he's the authority on shadows. Except for the author, that is. Remember, Maxwell found the Codex, he didn't write it. Someone else had such a deep knowledge of the intricacies of the shadows that they authored such a tome as the Codex itself.

 

tl;dr: I propose that there is only one gatekeeper, and that the gatekeeper authored the Codex.

Now, there's one thing that still bugs me about this. It's a line from Pugna. "We were severed from the Throne!" 

That implies there's something BIG I'm missing. Please add your thoughts below. Try to tear this theory to shreds so it can be rebuilt again, but less wrong.

[Tumalu]

I think at one point the forge's pig people were one and the same with the pigmen in the Constant (don't starve world) and had the power of the throne. However, the shadows (Them) eventually got bored and booted them out to the world of the Forge.

The hesitation with Gatekeepers was probably not about the plural, just surprise and taking a minute to remember what the word was. Although I like the theory that the original gatekeeper(s) made the Codex Umbra.

[slendyproject]

One thing im not sure about if every time someone travels with the portal are they guaranteed to end up in the forge realm? Because we know other places are out there how do we know its not completely random where you end up?

[The 2C3D]

11 minutes ago, Tumalu said:

I think at one point the forge's pig people were one and the same with the pigmen in the Constant (don't starve world) and had the power of the throne. However, the shadows (Them) eventually got bored and booted them out to the world of the Forge.

Ooh! So then the forge pigs had ties to pigs in the Constant and Hamlet! So when Pugna says:

"We were severed from the Throne!"
"Trapped in a realm of stone and fire, with no scepter to provide."

He could mean the royal pig throne instead of the shadow one.

Also, that royal scepter might have some dark powers by the sound of it!

That's a pretty big purple gem, and purple gems are the shadow gems. Heck, purple gems even let shadow creatures appear to the sane. We might actually have a connection here, because Hamlet and The Forge were announced at the same time, so it's perfectly reasonable to think they may be connected! I think I might just be on to something here!

Thanks for that little push in the right direction!

[Zeklo]

4 minutes ago, The 2C3D said:

He could mean the royal pig throne instead of the shadow one.

Ehhhh, the staff is likely referring to the Ancient Scepter the staff-wielder used, as we're already aware it had "interesting" properties from the murals, and after all, Pugna mentions Them and gatekeepers—stuff more related to ancients. 

[The 2C3D]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

Ehhhh, the staff is likely referring to the Ancient Scepter the staff-wielder used

Right.

Duh.

Forgot that bit... 

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, The 2C3D said:

 

Also, that royal scepter might have some dark powers by the sound of it!

 

This is about the aporkalypse and the ancient herald ( a literal shadow creature boss )

 

[Catteflyterpill]

34 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

This is about the aporkalypse and the ancient herald ( a literal shadow creature boss )

 

That makes me wonder if the Ancient Herald is canon, and if so, what its connection to the Ancients is. It has a sort of crustacean look, and its head seems to have ancient symbols for thulecite. Maybe it's just the same art style, but maybe there is a legitimate connection.

[axxel]

I wonder if we can fill all the holes with the hints we already have...or future updates in DST/DS will finally solve every last mystery.

55 minutes ago, The 2C3D said:

1)We Are Impostors

Okay, I'm retreading ground that some of you will be familiar with. I think. But with the new forge, I'm going to reiterate this: When Pugna says we're the gatekeepers, he's wrong. He thinks we're working for Them to forcibly put the Forge's inhabitants on the throne, saying "have you come to return us to the throne?" The survivors as the gatekeepers is a simple case of mistake identity. The gatekeeper is long past.

Good theory, a simple misunderstanding. We can safely assume Pugna had other invaders from the Constant. However the question is whether the old gatekeepers were humans as well. Pugna isn't really shocked to see other humans as well or speaking the same language. There's no implication that the gatekeepers are long past. It seems Gatekeepers are still present. 

However, my counter theory: Maybe Pugna was one of the old Gatekeepers and he and his underlings (pigs!) rebelled against Them and took care of the pigs after they are severed from the Constant/expelled to the Forge. This would expain his knowlegde of the Throne and its effects. Webber's psychological expert opinion on Pugna also hints that the Battlemaster isn't necessarely on the bad side.("Maybe he's nice?"). All the Realms were actively linked together, and he stated they had no leader ("with no scepter to provide"). I'd would add a bit from the 'misunderstanding' in this, because the survivors (but Maxwell??) shouldn't have knowledge what the Gatekeepers actually are. They fight in self-defense - I admit that Charlie provided them with armor and weapons supplies and skins  I think Them/Shadowcharlie took the chance after granny activated the Ancient Gateway. 

1 hour ago, The 2C3D said:

2) The Lonely Gatekeeper

Now we're getting into things I've never personally heard before. (Perhaps I missed something, but still) There are a few Mumsy lines that teach us a little more of our curious gatekeeper of the past. I'm talking about these two lines: "Are you... Gatekeepers, by chance?" and "Another of your kind passed through here once" I would like to propose that the original gatekeeper operated alone. Mumsy hesitates before pluralizing "Gatekeepers" and only recalls one other of "our kind" who passed through.

Now about the term Gatekeeper. To think about what the Gatekeeper really does we should inspect the Gateways. You activate them with a key (see ancient key) and these key are protected/given to a powerful being to protect it (Ancient Guadian and the Gnaw, maybe Pugna). Maybe the Gatekeepers are supposed to be the only authority to carry the keys. Now, we have quotes from Pugna and Mumsy - it seems Gatekeepers are allowed to use the Gates to travel between the realms. 

Yes, Mumsy talked about one other person (otherwise she would have used  the word "others" or something). But she has 2 different quotes for the bypasser and the gatekeeper. Just saying that does not mean she talked about the same person.

 

2 hours ago, The 2C3D said:

3) The Power of Shadows

But wait one second. If one, lone human made it into the Gorge, that person must've solo-ed the Forge, right?

The actual Gatekeeper must've had nigh-illimitable power to ruin the likes of Pugna's Champions with nothing but two hands, no allies to revive them and legions with no-one to fight but you. Maxwell knows that "there is no limit to the power of shadows" and he's read the Codex Umbra, so he's the authority on shadows. Except for the author, that is. Remember, Maxwell found the Codex, he didn't write it. Someone else had such a deep knowledge of the intricacies of the shadows that they authored such a tome as the Codex itself.

Either that or

• Pugna was friendly(!) with that person and let him pass.
• Gateways could lead to several Realms.
• by sneaking.

It's interesting to make links with the Codex Umbra and the Gateways...I think the earth has a Gateway too. Maybe the train crash side happens to be near that (under the desert sand) and that's where Maxwell discovered the book. Remember, that's the third crash (since 1875), but we have no information about an other missing person. About the railway crash: I suspect it was a sanity oblisk which caused the incident. SO we have 2 other crashes which could mean there are potentially 2 other unknown humans in the Constant.Maybe Pugna was one of them, and the other visited the Gorge.

[SpikeGuy]

Pugna says that "We've trained in solitude for so long.", implying the Forge was cut off for quite a while. His inquiry about the "Gatekeepers" (confused survivors) "returning" the Forge and its inhabitants to the Throne, which means that they had to once have been connected at one point for them to be returned rather than just having it brought to them. The use of "severed from" implies that this cutoff was rather sudden, though we can't be sure. He seems to use "Throne" and "Them" interchangeably to a degree, and refers to one or the other as "a power that deserted my people" and says that they were "Trapped in a realm of stone and fire, with no scepter to provide." It's almost as if they're a group of lost colonists who developed a culture of strength and self-reliance (with a strong dose of warrior mentality on the side) and are rather unhappy about being forced to pledge fealty to the power that abandoned them in their time of need.

There's also a now-removed unimplemented bonus banter line that reads "Honor. Glory. Redemption!". It's dubiously canonical, but I keep on wondering what they are seeking redemption for.

Pugna calls the players the "Throne's lapdogs" (and by implication due to mistaken identity, the Gatekeepers). It's funny that he doesn't call them hounds or something, since that also has a connotation of unthinking loyalty. "Lapdog" has additional implications of being weak and pampered.

Also, the Thulecite Club skin based on the Blacksmith's Edge is called the Gatekeepers' Club and is referred to as a "cursed blade", whatever that means.

On the side, Maxwell says "This is a most wretched idea." for the Atrium Gateway, "Meddling with it will only cause further trouble." for the Molten Gateway, and  "Nobody listens to me." for the Mossy Gateway. I guess he of all people knows that poking around with this whole dimension-hopping business is trouble, somehow. Is it because it attracts Their attention?

[CaptainChaotica]

Hmmm...okay, so while we're talking about the Aporkalypse and Mumsy...and TIME-TRAVELLING (possibly?) whenever we go through a gateway to an event pocket-dimension...let's bust out my own lame and really-obvious-anyone-could-have-thought-of-this theory!

...seriously, move in some goat people, kick this village through...however long of Lovecraftian ruin, and what would you get.

SERIOUSLY.

Like absolutely everybody who saw a Hamlet village for the first time has probably at least passingly thought of the Gorge, if they've played it at all...the architecture style is so similar.  How this ties into the FORGE I don't know, but time travel + gateways + Mumsy + aporkalypse...yeah.  Maybe the Gorge's village _doesn't_ tie directly into Pugna's realm...and doesn't have to. 

But both pocket dimensions (as I'm calling them for now) DO have the Gatekeepers in common.

(this stuff is so fun I swear.  XD)

...Notorious

[Russian_Philin]

Again now would be nonsense from me. Pugna and his people are warlike creatures. Their goal-to capture other worlds. Apparently, they had a power that could not just win, but the gatekeeper could influence it or Pugna and his allies were the true rulers of the world DS.They also decided to activate the Ancient gateways, but the shadows swallowed them up and turned them into monsters, and Pugna sent in the Kingdom of fire and stone, where was a large number of pig warriors. He trained there, gathered an army and is now waiting for the moment to avenge. If you think about the Gorge, Mumsi and Billy-this is not the true inhabitants of this world, there again the pigs live mostly. She is always worried and says that the Gatekeeper was here once, and he was like something on you(perhaps the error of the translation of the game, and maybe not). The Gatekeeper may be alive, but he's somewhere far away or he just died...

 

[YouKnowWho]

Actually, I did some digging around in the files, and it turns out there's some unused pictures of the gatekeeper in game!

( Warning: Major Spoilers Ahead*. You've been warned! )

Spoiler

 

[Maxposting]

11 hours ago, axxel said:

Webber's psychological expert opinion

Webber suffers from two personalities and I wouldn't be shocked if he just was dumb...

[WilsonGuy_]

There probably are some other people (or whatever they are) that passed trough once, and survivors are currently catching up with them and they don't know that. Maybe we will be able to see them leave just as we arrive in one realm, side with them in one of the next realms or try to battle each other.

[axxel]

4 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Webber suffers from two personalities and I wouldn't be shocked if he just was dumb...

Just in case, my exaggeration was for fun. However, I think what character say about X, it's their honest opinion about it. Maybe he's naive, but why would Webber be contradictory about Pugna and his cohorts. Same about the quote about Queenly Statue ("We are sure she's nicer than she looks"). Of course we should remember Klei didn't insert that much lore in the new Forge and it's not 100% sure what plan Charlie follows,

[Maxposting]

2 hours ago, axxel said:

"We are sure she's nicer than she looks"

*makes a list of videos where people die to shadows and charlie*

[axxel]

52 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

*makes a list of videos where people die to shadows and charlie*

It's the Throne's fault. The original vessels weren't evil (William, Wilson and Charlie). Mind control is a thing in the DS world. Same goes for the Ancients. Their souls(?) were corrupted.

[Mooagain]

On 11/24/2018 at 12:59 AM, Russian Philin said:

If you think about the Gorge, Mumsi and Billy-this is not the true inhabitants of this world, there again the pigs live mostly.

Mumsy and Billy are not the only ones. Billy says that Sammy and Pipton were goats once, and either Sammy or Pipton says that most of their kind went into the sea after the curse.

[Maxposting]

On 24. 11. 2018 at 4:56 PM, axxel said:

It's the Throne's fault. The original vessels weren't evil (William, Wilson and Charlie). Mind control is a thing in the DS world. Same goes for the Ancients. Their souls(?) were corrupted.

They used the look of maxwell... 

Wilson was never corrupted...

Charlie was turned into half-darkness-half-charlie...

Ancients weren't actually knowing what were they doing because they just were scared of the spoopy winter and just discovered the fuel and then it stabbed them in the shell ( they were bugs x humans )

Maxwell isn't evil , he was just controlled by them.

Charlie is evil because she is actually one of Them.

[CrimXane]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:42 PM, The 2C3D said:

Okay, I'm getting sick of ideas floating around in my head, so I'm going to codify them into actual, clear ideas.

1) We Are Impostors

Okay, I'm retreading ground that some of you will be familiar with. I think. But with the new forge, I'm going to reiterate this: When Pugna says we're the gatekeepers, he's wrong. He thinks we're working for Them to forcibly put the Forge's inhabitants on the throne, saying "have you come to return us to the throne?" The survivors as the gatekeepers is a simple case of mistake identity. The gatekeeper is long past.

2) The Lonely Gatekeeper

Now we're getting into things I've never personally heard before. (Perhaps I missed something, but still) There are a few Mumsy lines that teach us a little more of our curious gatekeeper of the past. I'm talking about these two lines: "Are you... Gatekeepers, by chance?" and "Another of your kind passed through here once" I would like to propose that the original gatekeeper operated alone. Mumsy hesitates before pluralizing "Gatekeepers" and only recalls one other of "our kind" who passed through.

3) The Power of Shadows

But wait one second. If one, lone human made it into the Gorge, that person must've solo-ed the Forge, right?

The actual Gatekeeper must've had nigh-illimitable power to ruin the likes of Pugna's Champions with nothing but two hands, no allies to revive them and legions with no-one to fight but you. Maxwell knows that "there is no limit to the power of shadows" and he's read the Codex Umbra, so he's the authority on shadows. Except for the author, that is. Remember, Maxwell found the Codex, he didn't write it. Someone else had such a deep knowledge of the intricacies of the shadows that they authored such a tome as the Codex itself.

 

tl;dr: I propose that there is only one gatekeeper, and that the gatekeeper authored the Codex.

Now, there's one thing that still bugs me about this. It's a line from Pugna. "We were severed from the Throne!" 

That implies there's something BIG I'm missing. Please add your thoughts below. Try to tear this theory to shreds so it can be rebuilt again, but less wrong.

Wigfrid is the Reason they went to forge ;0 
she works for Charlie.

[BOT Tuja]

2 hours ago, CrimXane said:

Wigfrid is the Reason they went to forge ;0 
she works for Charlie.

All of the survivors work for charlie.

[NeddoFreddo]

On 11/24/2018 at 2:54 PM, CaptainChaotica said:

Like absolutely everybody who saw a Hamlet village for the first time has probably at least passingly thought of the Gorge

Also, in Hamlet you can see pigeons, akin to those that appear in the Gorge. 
In Don't Starve, the birds that we can see are almost always EXCLUSIVE to a certain part of the constant (apart from Wolly who, while being a parrot, appears in the normal DS world.)

[CaptainChaotica]

YUP.  In fact, for one of my Steam screenshots, the caption I wrote even says something about "Heck, there's even pigeons!"  I didn't happen to get any pigeons _in_ that exact screenshot, but...

...Notorious

[Maxposting]

On 23. 11. 2018 at 8:09 PM, Catteflyterpill said:

That makes me wonder if the Ancient Herald is canon, and if so, what its connection to the Ancients is. It has a sort of crustacean look, and its head seems to have ancient symbols for thulecite. Maybe it's just the same art style, but maybe there is a legitimate connection.

and when you spawn him in ( if you unblock the aporkalypse ) he starts spawning shadows??? *Theory Time!*