Expressive Upgrade Testing Branch is now Open! - 277292

[Oozinator]

9 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Dupes are still starving during the day

Feed them!
^^

[BlueLance]

3 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Feed them!
^^

Would if I could bt they just seem to nt wanna eat much

[malloc]

It seems odd that the water cooler is three spaces tall preventing a painting above it when visually it's the same height as a planter with a bluff briar.

[goboking]

8 hours ago, Asteru said:

With the critter egg/conveyor rail storage being fixed, there really needs to be a special egg compactor or something that can store a couple eggs each, without them hatching out of it, and without going stale as well.

I've suggested as much for the same reasons you included in your post.

 

4 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

I never had issues with eggs. Usually I run full ranches of a species. Whenever they get to be expecting, I mark one egg with a priority 9 sweep and select it at the egg cracker. The egg will be picked up and no other.

That's a lot of player input just to manage eggs.  Ideally we'd have the tools to automatically sort, store, incubate, and crack all sorts of eggs using nothing more than sub-priorities.

[watermelen671]

46 minutes ago, malloc said:

It seems odd that the water cooler is three spaces tall preventing a painting above it when visually it's the same height as a planter with a bluff briar.

I just wish it wasn't two tiles wide when it looks like it should only be one! Totally messes up my symmetry!

[Oozinator]

1 minute ago, watermelen671 said:

I just wish it wasn't two tiles wide when it looks like it should only be one! Totally messes up my symmetry!

Pro Tip: Build two, then it's symmetric again!

[watermelen671]

Just now, Oozinator said:

Pro Tip: Build two, then it's symmetric again!

True, but it still looks weird, there's too much negative space!

[Oozinator]

Just now, watermelen671 said:

True, but it still looks weird, there's too much negative space!

Guru Tip: Fill every empty negative space with something positive!
Is the leisure room buff/thing working for you?

[Alfons100]

2 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

The only possible source of oxygen without a need for water would be polluted oxygen.

(If you want to use algae you will need to process some slime => You create more water)

 

Water consumption should be based around food and oxygen, but why should dupes produce water ?

(Right now we have to build something to process the additional water and we have a water cooler, which uses a specific amount of water to improve the quality of life.

 

So my idea was that you have 2 options:

A) You build no water cooler, reduce the quality of life and each (normal) duplicant produces some extra water each cycle.

B) You build a water cooler, improve the quality of life and each (normal) duplicant is a bit happier/ more productive)

I meant that it is possible to live without consuming any water.. mostly. 

Yes. The previous idea is better, as giving a 'forced' water need isn't neccessary when it already is in place but better, but if you got the luxury to do so, then you can place a Water cooler which uses water.

What would be better in my opinion would be to add 'Drinks', and make the Water cooler simply be the new spot for Hanging out, because if there is none, they will just go to the Printing Pod. The proccess of making drinks could be that you make a 'dissolving pill' out of Bristle berry or some new tasty plant bulb in the musher, and then place it in water to convert a bit of it into Juice. Which can be pumped up, into some Bottler machine which needs Plastic and glass, and viola, a new recreation item.

[watermelen671]

Just now, Oozinator said:

Guru Tip: Fill every empty negative space with something positive!
Is the leisure room buff/thing working for you?

I CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S TWO TILES WIDE!!!

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, goboking said:

I've suggested as much for the same reasons you included in your post.

 

That's a lot of player input just to manage eggs.  Ideally we'd have the tools to automatically sort, store, incubate, and crack all sorts of eggs using nothing more than sub-priorities.

Meh, I do this once every cycle. I'll check up on the ranches, mark which ones are expecting and then I'll do my couple of mouse clicks. I'm of course speaking for myself, but I don't see a lot of issue doing it like this.

[avc15]

5 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

...That literally makes no sense. They added the expecting status because it tells the player that the critters will be overcrowded when the egg hatches. Eggs count as (proto)critters, until they either hatch, are cracked, or relocated.

expecting exists to *prevent* overcrowding. Auto-wrangle fulfills this function now.

[watermelen671]

Just now, avc15 said:

expecting exists to *prevent* overcrowding. Auto-wrangle fulfills this function now.

You can't auto-wrangle babies (yet) anyways. So why not just set it to below the expecting threshold?

[avc15]

Sure, I could set my ranch sized for 8 to a population of 7. When 2 eggs get laid the whole thing still goes "expecting" and reproduction all stops even with the measures I took. Now, I could set the pop limit to 3 in a ranch sized for 8, and they would never ever become expecting. (Or does it work with 4?)

If expecting wasn't a thing, I'd just set the limit to 8. Every time a baby popped out (population 9) one of my adults would get wrangled out.

I'm just advocating a smaller set of mechanics, one that makes more intuitive sense and takes less learning. I don't think expecting is a necessary mechanic anymore. (it was introduced before we had auto wrangle and solved a very large problem *at that time* - in mk1?)

 

But, opinions will vary, of course.

Edited July 13, 2018 by avc15

[Asteru]

20 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

I never had issues with eggs. Usually I run full ranches of a species. Whenever they get to be expecting, I mark one egg with a priority 9 sweep and select it at the egg cracker. The egg will be picked up and no other.

Yea, it’s not difficult to go do a sweep manually or manually put the number of eggs to crack in an egg cracker. That’s not really the point. The point is the amount of micromanagement needed for just this one aspect of the game that makes it tedious to the point where you just dread dealing with it. Even streamers are doing it less and less each play through cause it’s annoying for little benefit. The auto wrangle was a big help. That’s the reason the rail egg storage workaround came into existence in the first place. Now we need something to help with egg management in a proper way. Im not advocating the elimination of dupes having to do extra work or anything with it, it should just auto generate those activities like your dupes moving things to storage already from the ground. I’m also not recommending we go back to just shove all eggs in a compactor and let them all mass hatch from there, and that was too easy and eliminated the need for the incubator. But there has to be a reasonable way to keep a small stored supply of eggs to put in incubator when you need it, without having to be constantly concerned you cracked it, or it expired.  For the getting rid of eggs, maybe just tie it to the auto wrangle from the drop off point to always flag eggs to be moved to storage based on priority number. Then you’d add a special stasus type storage for just a couple eggs max that you can keep stocked with higher priority, and overflow the rest to a fridge to be cracked at egg cracker with the repeating order. they can still go stale and expire in the fridge like now, but just don’t expire in the small status storage. This way you can crack away at eggs without the worry of accidentally killing off the species, while not having to constantly be checking it over and over and dealing with it. Unfortunately, I don’t really foresee people putting up with the micromanagement too long and see regular players start following the streamers who are for the most part skipping it now  

Another example of of this type of micromanagement is the regolith removal. Having to manually keep giving orders to get rid of it. It’s not sustainable without wanting to choke someone. The placement of tile blueprints at a priority 1 so they auto clear is obviously cheesy but it’s the only sane way to do it now without the micromanagement. For this maybe link it to tidy somehow where they’ll go clean off tiles/doors that have regolith on them but ignore regolith cleanup if it’s not on one of them. So they aren’t getting rid of regolith all over the unused surface areas. 

Anyway, Micromanging your dupes is good and fine. Micromanaging those other aspects doesn’t really make the game enjoyable and makes those areas of the game avoided, which I really hate to see. And I do think these are still things it should cost your dupes time to do, but not your time as the player to have to deal with tedium repeatedly.  I could b completely wrong, but I think We’d all rather be trying to build the next big thing in our colony instead of playing the Ranching/regolith whack-a-mole for 40+ hours a colony. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Asteru said:

Anyway, Micromanging your dupes is good and fine. Micromanaging those other aspects doesn’t really make the game enjoyable and makes those areas of the game avoided, which I really hate to see. And I do think these are still things it should cost your dupes time to do, but not your time as the player to have to deal with tedium repeatedly.  I could b completely wrong, but I think We’d all rather be trying to build the next big thing in our colony instead of playing the Ranching/regolith whack-a-mole for 40+ hours a colony. 

I firmly disagree. I myself don't need to be pampered around; having to do some micro management myself, even if just 10 seconds each cycle because that's all that is to it,  If there is nothing left to manage for the player anymore, it's a simulation and not a game anymore. Btw, the benefits outweight the effort. The effort you put it in pays itself back in terms of raw resources and food for your dupes.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Guest

[thewreckedangle]

23 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

If there is nothing left to manage for the player anymore, it's a simulation and not a game anymore

^

[TLW]

4 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

If there is nothing left to manage for the player anymore, it's a simulation and not a game anymore.

I take it you don't enjoy Factorio.

[avc15]

4 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

I myself don't need to be pampered around;

It's funny how two different groups of people choose words to describe an issue.

To one group, a vestigal mechanic that could be removed entirely without much notice, one less thing for the player to manage.

To another group, pampering, unnecessary simplification, dumbing down.

 

It's like two political parties in a TV debate. Talking about the same subject but never actually communicating.

OK folks, what we have is a roll of paper.

"No, all I see is a square"

"You must be dreaming, that's clearly a circle"

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by avc15

[Guest]

Lol.

But what is expected then? A slider for each stable so that dupes auto collect any eggs above critter+eggs population?

Communication does not always involve agreement or finding midground. I'm also up for it to have things done more neatly. I could find myself agreeing with a dedicated egg storage, but imo managing critter & egg population should be a player concern.

It's not like animal population is automated on a real farm either. It involves concious decisions.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Guest

[goboking]

6 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

firmly disagree. I myself don't need to be pampered around; having to do some micro management myself, even if just 10 seconds each cycle because that's all that is to it,  If there is nothing left to manage for the player anymore, it's a simulation and not a game anymore. Btw, the benefits outweight the effort. The effort you put it in pays itself back in terms of raw resources and food for your dupes.

So you're telling me that players who use Auto-Sweepers in their colony, or the Electric Grill's infinite cook option, or those who don't click a Storage Compartment's "Sweep Only" box are pampered?  Do you also look down on those of us who use Atmo Sensors to turn off our Algae Deoxidizers instead of manually monitoring gas pressure ourselves?  Am I a bad person for not disabling the Auto-Disinfect option?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, goboking said:

So you're telling me that players who use Auto-Sweepers in their colony, or the Electric Grill's infinite cook option, or those who don't click a Storage Compartment's "Sweep Only" box are pampered?  Do you also look down on those of us who use Atmo Sensors to turn off our Algae Deoxidizers instead of manually monitoring gas pressure ourselves?  Am I a bad person for not disabling the Auto-Disinfect option?

Maybe you should reread my post and note the "for myself" wording. It's there to make sure I am not generalizing my opinion.

I use autosweepers where I can't have dupes entering. I even use it in my farm to save on dupe time. However these things don't require player management anyway, so automating them was already being solely a matter of saving dupe time. For me there have to be elements of leaving some things to player management.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Guest

[Gurgel]

People that tell _other_ people how they should play and what they should enjoy have a problem. Those doing it: Stop it now.

That said, everybody currently sets themselves different goals and that is entirely fine. I, for example, want a fully automated base and I could not care less that some people disagree with that idea. It is my time, and my decision.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

People that tell _other_ people how they should play and what they should enjoy have a problem. Those doing it: Stop it now.

That said, everybody currently sets themselves different goals and that is entirely fine. I, for example, want a fully automated base and I could not care less that some people disagree with that idea. It is my time, and my decision.

Nobody is judging you for that. I use automation and it's really useful. Realise that this is a discussion about people wanting to see a certain change which will influence the gameplay for everyone. In my opinion decisions that concern things like critter population control should be in the hand of the player and not automated. How you fill that in, is a different matter. I'm ok for instance with dedicated storage or even an option like "mark for egg cracker".

Edited July 14, 2018 by Guest

[irOninfernO]

i think it should be obvious by now but i have to report these things.

1. dupe don't eat outside of leisure even when they are starving.

2. dupe don't poop outside of leisure even when they have bladder full.

that it.