Expressive Upgrade Testing Branch is now Open! - 277292

[goboking]

4 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

Nobody is judging you for that.

That may not have been your intent, but when you say "I don't do X because I'm not Y" you're inferring that those of who do do X are Y.  In this discussion Y = Pampered.  To many (most?) people, being called pampered is going go feel like they're being judged.  Again, you may not have meant it that way, but that's certainly how it reads.

 

9 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

ealise that this is a discussion about people wanting to see a certain change which will influence the gameplay for everyone.

How would such a change negatively impact your experience?  Could you not refrain from using a hypothetical egg storage unit and continue to play exactly as you do now?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, goboking said:

How would such a change negatively impact your experience?  Could you not refrain from using a hypothetical egg storage unit and continue to play exactly as you do now?

That argument can basically be used for everything and can be used in vice versa: "could you refrain from asking for a hypethical change and continue to play exactly as you do now?". If you find my "pampering" argument judgemental, then that's certainly judging!

If you want a discussion contentwise, I'm more than open to that and I'll pay extra attention to make sure I don't sound judging. So I'll ask what you want specifically and what you envision that to be ingame. You want auto sort and storage, but you haven't told how this system would be able to differentiate between eggs needed inside the stable to keep the same stable population, and eggs of the same type that are basically food. Ultimately it all boils down down to that: removing that one egg that is too much. Keep in mind too that some stables are there for breeding i.e. all eggs of a certain type have to stay while all other eggs have to be removed. Or what about having 5 out of 8 critters being near death? Then you suddenly have to make exceptions on your "one egg too many" rule.

Those are a bit more complex decisions, which I personally don't feel can have an automation solution. The only thing that perhaps deserves a better solution is an option, none automated, to move eggs to start a new population somewhere else. Technically there is one: building an (none-powered) incubator and put the egg in there, but that's a bit silly. Instead the critter drop off point should have an option to drop off eggs as well.

If there is going to be a dedicated automation solution, no problem on my end as long as I can still effectively decide which eggs stay and which eggs don't.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Guest

[Flydo]

On 12/07/2018 at 9:11 PM, Scorpio King said:

Nooo, they gonna talk and fool around!? I need them to work. WORK HARDER! This is not a vacation, its survival of the fittest!

Did you try to use red alert when reccreational time?

I'm sure about this since i see the recreationnal room with no use.

Now the dupe will continue to work without stopping for pee or eat (i hope they could wait so long without pee

And i hope if they are really starving they stop the work to eat and not continue to work and die

[vonVile]

1 hour ago, iron8 said:

i think it should be obvious by now but i have to report these things.

2. dupe don't poop outside of leisure even when they have bladder full.

There's a bug with Laboratories and Dupes operating equipment. They won't get off what they are using to go to use a Laboratory, but they will get off for an Outhouse. I have one Outhouse functioning and there's no pee, but the second that's disabled pee is everywhere.

Edited July 14, 2018 by vonVile

[irOninfernO]

1 hour ago, vonVile said:

There's a bug with Laboratories and Dupes operating equipment. They won't get off what they are using to go to use a Laboratory, but they will get off for an Outhouse. I have one Outhouse functioning and there's no pee, but the second that's disabled pee is everywhere.

no worries , ill play the eXpPrEsSiOn update when it is fix. thanks for the reply!

[Yury Ko]

I'm annoyed by this build.
1. Dupes like children, do not look at their needs as before, pee going under themselves during work and sleep, with working toilets.

2. because of a break in work, the game cycle now stretched near 50 - 70%
At the same time, I did not notice any compensation at the beginning of the game
The volume of water and food is the same as it was before.

I can not imagine how this will affect new players, the game has become heavily tightened in the beginning.
Half a day goes on wiping and a break in work before going to bed.

In my opinion, the build is too raw to run.

• Duplicates should not ignore their needs for food and toilets at work, it's natural in the real world, why should the game be different? 

it interfered with interrupts in tasks - yes, but it was possible:

• Add a condition so that dupes complete the task before retiring to rest,

if you need a balance make a requirement to sleep longer (I saw this in the game, dupes sleep half a day after work at night)

• Do not dismiss the task of the dupes after retiring to sleep, for non-urgent tasks, let him return and finish his work.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Yury Ko

[asmallrabbit]

The issue im seeing with this is its introducing more time management and priorities etc like Rimworld, but Rimworld is colony management on a different level. I personally don't see the need for leisure time and break schedules, the only real problem with bathroom time and eating in ONI is that the dupes will interupt anything they are doing and lead to them running across the map repeatedly in the middle of jobs. 

All you would really need to do is change the thresholds for when a dupe does these activities, let them finish whatever job they are in the middle of first, and dont have them wait until they are almost critical to relieve themselves or eat. Have them eat when they are close to food instead of waiting till they are across the map and starving, have them use bathrooms when they are close to them before they are about to wet themselves and nowhere nearby.

[Yury Ko]

4 hours ago, asmallrabbit said:

All you would really need to do is change the thresholds for when a dupe does these activities, let them finish whatever job they are in the middle of first, and dont have them wait until they are almost critical to relieve themselves or eat. Have them eat when they are close to food instead of waiting till they are across the map and starving, have them use bathrooms when they are close to them before they are about to wet themselves and nowhere nearby.

1

+1

of course, why invent another bicycle!
Klei please don't spend time on time management it's pretty good at last build, make other cool things!

Edited July 16, 2018 by Yury Ko

[Kabrute]

When the dupe gets a "Check for new jobs" it should first check Bladder<85% then kcal>2k, then look for a job. Having food and bathroom breaks performed as a part of the "next task" list.
Personally i'm not playing the eu because I can't set up the schedules and bathroom breaks being micro managed by the chip in my  head is no way to live.....

[Yury Ko]

27 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

When the dupe gets a "Check for new jobs" it should first check Bladder<85% then kcal>2k, then look for a job. Having food and bathroom breaks performed as a part of the "next task" list.
Personally i'm not playing the eu because I can't set up the schedules and bathroom breaks being micro managed by the chip in my  head is no way to live.....

but it does not work for now. I spend 2 days for this **** in my last game and 300+ cycles to try management this. Dupes just pee when working, like create energy on the wheel, moved food, etc. all this near the toilets, when sleep(like children's yah?).

it's probably cool to create social elements in the game, but I think it's a lot of work, if you wanna do good work, you probably will have to create the same amount of content as you have already created from the start.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Yury Ko

[Guest]

Just a general remark: complaining about the update as it is now will get you very little.

People forget just how early this is i'nthe development stage. You are looking at a concept barely put into working code for ingame. Infact I don't even think the developers worked out what the consequences are. They asked specifically for feedback and suggestions.

So give them suggestions how you think this should be working and rewarding. In my opinion, you can get it work IF the system rewards you. It should increase productivity for instance, or perhaps maybe even higher "blatter control", or the willingness not to drop it's current activity for food. Perhaps even the motivation to work through the night?

You all are smart boys and girls, I am sure you can work out fitting and rational rewards for it and put that forward to the developers.

[Djoums]

The idea of timeshifts and leisure time is nice but currently it forces you to either micromanage your outhouses or make a lot more of them than you should need. The problem is they all go at the same time, so if your outhouses don't have enough "charges" left, the unlucky duplicants won't be able to relieve themselves and will most likely make a mess during the night. The dupes in charge of tidying can't see that coming (would be nice) so having more of them dedicated to this task doesn't solve the issue, you have to manually flag the outhouses for cleaning or build a lot of them.

[thewreckedangle]

i kinda feel like i must not be playing the same game as some of you guys..

this update, while small in terms of added "stuff" is actually incredibly excellent. i have had no problems with duplicants peeing anywhere they shouldn't, food seems easier even (my guys living on bbq and stuffed berries for the first time in ever) sure, things take a little longer now they have their breaks and such, the way they talk and comment as they walk by one another or witness certain things, is absolutely ADORABLE, but also, this gives you a chance to remember that these little guys are actually doing all this stuff you ask. give them a break sometime. 

I think it's too easy to get into a pattern and it basically involves speed 3 and everything done NOW! this update, almost "forces" you to go slower, take some time. i love it. it reminded me why i love this game and why i have thousands of hours in it. The duplicants, themselves <3

thank you Klei.

(sorry if this is a bit jumbled)

[BlueLance]

20 minutes ago, thewreckedangle said:

i kinda feel like i must not be playing the same game as some of you guys..

We definently are XD

• I find the breaks are not causing any severe headaches other than it being too long.
• My dupes will starve themselves unless it is meal time if anything happens to my food chain or they are far from base and go to the toilet instead of eating.
• Starving dupes don't eat and same for dupes who need to go to the toilet unless it is break time, so if something happens to stop a dupe doing these then its a one way trip
• My dupes seem to really enjoy conversing whilst in the middle of a build and it gets worse the more dupes I have working on the build (I even had two dupes almost 20 tiles apart shooting each other with their fingers) btw both those dupes never finished their task until the next morning XD
• Unless I have missed it Quality of Life seems pretty vague, I cannot tell how much they get from the water cooler or arcade.

[Moggles]

Adorable and cute. Meh. Sorry I don't see it. People actually like that stuff? Yuck. Each to their own.

Does nothing to enhance gameplay. All I see is dupes doing sod all for another portion of the cycle. Hardly riveting gameplay to watch them stand around doing nothing. It's just extended the already dull as dishwasher night time period and you just wanna debug 10x speed through the drudgery.

Yes work time is more focussed sure but it's not a satisfying trade off for me.

[Megouski]

This build is broken. Im not sure this can all be fixed in 1 week, but I am turning off all updates to this game for the foreseeable future. I really enjoy the idea of the expressive stuff and the quality of life point system, but this was not even ready for a preview it was not really thought out well. You can see dozens of issues just for playing 1 hour, its not fun. This game is about time management, and we somehow need to trade fun expressiveness for loss of time? Why?

 

Also why are you adding this stuff when basic things like blueprints. block picking and frequently accessed blocks are still not in the game? These are vital pieces to a game like this. Dont build the game so top-heavy that it threatens to fall over. New features are welcome but finish the foundation please. You're basically adding dupe #10 while supplying all your oxygen from only one deoxydizer.  We need infrastructure now, more paintings later.

 

TLDR:

Expressiveness

The idea 9/10

The implementation 2/10

Priority 5/10

Priority to add needed features first from above 10/10 with all dupes at very high priority. Who wishes they could set development priority through a voting system? It would be in everyones best interest for the community to say what they want and the dev team to deliver. That = $$$, that = fun. Who loses there?

Edited July 17, 2018 by Megouski

[Im_not_Included]

1 hour ago, Megouski said:

This build is broken. Im not sure this can all be fixed in 1 week, but I am turning off all updates to this game for the foreseeable future. I really enjoy the idea of the expressive stuff and the quality of life point system, but this was not even ready for a preview it was not really thought out well. You can see dozens of issues just for playing 1 hour, its not fun. This game is about time management, and we somehow need to trade fun expressiveness for loss of time? Why?

 

Also why are you adding this stuff when basic things like blueprints. block picking and frequently accessed blocks are still not in the game? These are vital pieces to a game like this. Dont build the game so top-heavy that it threatens to fall over. New features are welcome but finish the foundation please. You're basically adding dupe #10 while supplying all your oxygen from only one deoxydizer.  We need infrastructure now, more paintings later.

 

TLDR:

Expressiveness

The idea 9/10

The implementation 2/10

Priority 5/10

Priority to add needed features first from above 10/10 with all dupes at very high priority. Who wishes they could set development priority through a voting system? It would be in everyones best interest for the community to say what they want and the dev team to deliver. That = $$$, that = fun. Who loses there?

This makes me sad because every single update there's someone that posts something like this. Please don't opt in to a test branch if this is how you will react. It's perfectly fine if the testing branch isn't for you, it's always super rough the first week. To throw in the towel like this right out of the gate makes us as a fan base lose credibility. How can the devs truly Gage if something is broken, if every six weeks someone says "this is unplayable, I'm not gonna play it cuz it's not perfectly how I wanted/imagined".

 

Full disclosure: I HATED TO THE DEPTHS OF MY BEING the automation upgrade at first. It was useless to me because I thought "that is what dupes are for". I would have advocated heavily to not have it happen. Thank God they didn't hear me because OMG THERES SO MANY AMAZING STUFF YOU CAN DO NOW. 

 

Give it a chance. There are sucky parts now, but klei has yet to make me regret buying this game. If this testing isn't your cup of tea, then don't opt in. If you want to opt in but give constructive feedback, do it! But don't  go 10/10 full rage on something you can handle at like 5/10 anger. I can't hear your concerns over your rageholic ultimatum. 

[Flydo]

4 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

You sir are an idiot. This is very early development, the developers even said so. What were you expecting for Pete's sake.

I think many people see the game like the game is finish and dev add new content every 6 week. But reality disapoint them, cause all the game is still in beta dev, so it's obvious that the early development you can do with the beta branch meaning "be prepare to play a game full of bug cause we need you to find it".

11 hours ago, Megouski said:

This build is broken. Im not sure this can all be fixed in 1 week, but I am turning off all updates to this game for the foreseeable future. I really enjoy the idea of the expressive stuff and the quality of life point system, but this was not even ready for a preview it was not really thought out well. You can see dozens of issues just for playing 1 hour, its not fun. This game is about time management, and we somehow need to trade fun expressiveness for loss of time? Why?

This game is still in early access, for that you get it cheaper, so sometimes you will encounter some trouble in the game, and you except to have a perfect build in beta branch testing....non sense....beta branch is for people who want to help dev or test the future update before official update launch on an EARLY ACESS GAME

“Since 2012, Klei has used Early Access as a tool to gather feedback and build our games in collaboration with our community, producing games like Don’t Starve, Don’t Starve Together and Invisible Inc.. We’ve found this process works for us, and we hope you find it works for you, too."

 

[Grimgaw]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:53 PM, Ipsquiggle said:

We encourage you to comment on the game as you're currently experiencing it, as we'll be considering your feedback while we develop these systems.

I don't like this upgrade. It's not interactive, and doesn't add to gameplay besides some visuals.

[malloc]

14 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

I don't like this upgrade. It's not interactive, and doesn't add to gameplay besides some visuals.

How far through did you play?  It required me to change my standard methodology particularly in the early game.

[Le0n1des]

I think the expressions and conversations are a nice touch, and can serve as hint towards base improvement - don't know what to do next - hear what the dupes have to say...

Some further development of this system could be:

1.Dupes having the same job could converse about the job, sharing and boosting each others experience

2. Dupes having personal preference to specific pass time activity.

3. Regular actions and placement modifiers, I.e some dupes might enjoy hunting local creatures (while other dupes might find it upholding and immensely stressful), some might prefer working with plants, while other - working with machinery. Workaholics suffer stress while being idle / lazy dupes gaining QOL while being idle. Sensibility to smell/noise/light could cause stress while being in proximity of specific machinery and so on. This could add personal strategy to each dupe and a whole new layer of depth

[Djoums]

Some dupes seem to be stuck on their jobs sometimes, like running on a hamster wheel. When that happens they end up taking almost no leisure time and won't be able to eat or socialise.

Ranching seems to have the same problem, although it's even weirder because asking the dupe to move doesn't "free" him from his task, he's going back to it (maybe he likes the hatchlings more than the other dupes ).

[Smuch]

I wouldn't mind the update if it had been correctly impelmened but it's clearit was rushed and thngswer overlooked

 I mean as it is now, I have an epidemy of slielung in my base and for the first time it's actualy a chalenge but for all the wrong reasons. Because, for me at least, as far as I can tell the update breaks quarantine.

Apparently being in a sickbed is considered a 'workshift' activity, So once the break is over my duplicants go feth their food an go to eat it on the medbay table (swhih is kind o dumb,  you'd think carng duplicants should be the one o bring food the sick inorder to maitian quarantine but whatev, thats not new, that hasn't chnaged, altough now thye have a lot less time to do so) And THEN if they still have time, they will go out of the sickbay to go talk with the others AND then when night arrive they go back to their cot to sleep (I tried removing their ownership of the cot, in hat case they just fall asleep whereever they are like any duplicants when there aren't enough beds) rather than go back in the sickbed !

That completly break the whole point of the sickbay, I'm prEtty sure that's not inTentional but Seriously this is one hell of a thing to overlook.

Am I the only one having that problem ?

Edited July 18, 2018 by Smuch

[dehtona]

meu jogo está com bug nas plantações, não está reconhecendo as plantas nas fazendas então pede para plantar novamente sendo que ainda está com a planta.

[Yury Ko]

I read this thread, and I see a lot of gaps from different updates.
It seems it would be better if KLEI made a full upgrade, which would complement the previously created directions. Would make their a smoother thoughtful and finished.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Yury Ko