The Gorge Tournament

[MrMofolz]

Just now, watermelen671 said:

It's late and my brain is sludge, lemme rest up and hopefully I'll be able to explain myself better. 

enjoy your sleep, but no amount of sleep is going to produce logic that can defy facts for the sake of defying them.

sometimes it's better to just agree with valid points rather than openly arguing against them. Especially if they have a reason and residual side-effects.

[watermelen671]

10 minutes ago, MrMofolz said:

enjoy your sleep, but no amount of sleep is going to produce logic that can defy facts for the sake of defying them.

sometimes it's better to just agree with valid points rather than openly arguing against them. Especially if they have a reason and residual side-effects.

Oh I have no hopes of even reaching bronze status, I just want my status announcement mods and grid locked tilling so I don't end up having an uneven field that triggers me.

Oh and I suppose that Gorge HUD...it's kinda like Always on Status, which is quality . Saves me time from constantly asking what the craving is, and saves my team time due to them answering my constant asking.

Status announcements doesn't change the game in any way, it's just something that pushes what you have in your inventory into the chat.

Spoiler

And what about my emote hotkeys? Isn't that botting? Because it runs the emote without typing it in chat. F1 to /wave, F2 to /yawn, etc.

Spoiler

Just so ya know, it was made by @PeterA, the /flex master himself.

And my camera! I have a camera mod that has it more pulled back because I hate how close it is normally!

[KoreanWaffles]

I'm going to be brutally honest, I don't think this is a good idea.

First and foremost, DST is not a competitive game. The events so far have not been balanced well for competition, and aren't organized well enough to have more formal teams, and definitely not a tournament of any sort. The problem is, there's only so much you can do with the Event content, since it's essentially all vs AI. Most competitive games thrive off player input. If you look at the esports titans, they're all PvP style gameplay because playing against a real person is much more difficult and interesting than playing an AI while still being fair. Even a game as simple as Tetris Battle is more suited for competitive gameplay than The Gorge is because of this.

Aside from that, The Gorge is an event, and not the actual game. It's niche and a limited time, meaning not everyone will want, or even have time to play it. Competitive Gorge appeals to a small minority akin to a speedrunning community, which doesn't make much sense since Gorge is a limited time event. And of course, exclusive content is going to upset a whole lot of people (collectors I'm looking at you), even if it's something tiny like a portrait. Again, not everyone will want or can play The Gorge, but many people feel obligated to because then they'd be missing out on chests and limited time items.

Also, one more point I'd like to make is the informality of the tournament. Everyone plays from home, and can only use Klei's general Gorge servers. This brings the issue of latency and modding. For latency, there's definitely going to be runs ruined by lag and disconnect. Modding is a whole other issue. It tilts the playing field since it gives players unfair advantages (in a competitive sense).

 

Some additional miscellaneous comments

Something that Klei has done in the past that I thought worked really well was reopening the Cyclum puzzle. It gave more players a chance to obtain the Tragic Torch. Perhaps the exclusive rewards could be a recurring thing: let's say someone didn't get a chance to play Gorge, they could get a shot the gold/silver portrait during the Horge. A gold/silver portrait would still be a rare achievement, but it wouldn't be something locked away forever to everyone else. (it's still going to upset a lot of collectors though )

[MrMofolz]

1 minute ago, watermelen671 said:

Oh I have no hopes of even reaching bronze status, I just want my status announcement mods and grid locked tilling so I don't end up having an uneven field that triggers me.

Oh and I suppose that Gorge HUD...it's kinda like Always on Status, which is quality . Saves me time from constantly asking what the craving is, and saves my team time due to them answering my constant asking.

Status announcements doesn't change the game in any way, it's just something that pushes what you have in your inventory into the chat.

And my camera! I have a camera mod that has it more pulled back because I hate how close it is normally!

 

Well there's nothing stopping you from just playing the game normally. If you have "no hope of ever reaching bronze status" then why do you care so vehemently about the rules of the tournament being refined to make it fair gameplay for everyone? The very small price of comfort to compete in a tournament is adequate payment. And yeah, not ever seeing what the craving is, but knowing what it is, is entirely cheats =p.

Unforseen knowledge, aka, fruit of the poison tree. it gives you a clear advantage over someone that doesn't use mods, and thus, is not part of the player's actual skill.

 

with status announcements, I'd view it honestly as an emote style mod. The reason is that people on discord can get info across much faster and easier than shift + ctrl + click.

  Hide contents

And what about my emote hotkeys? Isn't that botting? Because it runs the emote without typing it in chat. F1 to /wave, F2 to /yawn, etc.

  Hide contents

Just so ya know, it was made by @PeterA, the /flex master himself.

Emotes don't change the gameplay in any way shape or form. Neither do skins or soundpacks. Though it's a small price to pray to ensure fair gameplay.

[Hotblack Desiato 42]

1 hour ago, MrMofolz said:

You have to understand, 100% of the top current 100 teams use the same auto-farm, auto-chop, and auto-NPC mods. It's not their skill that's getting recognized, it's their programs that are cutting them free time to get higher rewards and enabling them to be in the top 100.

As I am someone on the leader boards (currently 7th place for the high scoring three person teams).  I can state that you are factually wrong.  If you think that it's all scripting and no skill, then I challenge you to place yourself on the leader boards using solely said scripting rather than any developed skills.

 

Myself and my teammates have extensively planned and practiced our scoring runs.  We have every aspect of our runs planned to quite minute details, e.g. early game money management (i.e. who gets what coins and exactly what they'll be spending it on) to mid-game role management (i.e. who cooks syrup, does fishing, and who cooks slow oven dishes, and when to do these things).  We have cut our teeth with extensive in game research, such as to discover how to cook dishes in a set-it-cooking-and-leave-it methodology.  That is we've experimented to find out just the right amount of fuel (from the various fuels available) to slow cook a dish so that it fully cooks, but doesn't burn.
 

Now let me tell you something about the script mods.  They're worthless.  Auto-tilling scripts order the plots in a one-two-three pattern, where it will completely till plot one, then completely till plot two, and then finally plot three.  Same goes auto-planting scripts.  When tilling and planting crops in the plots I want my wheat on the two end plots and my veg in the middle.  I also want to till only in the plot I need to till in and only enough to suit my purposes, because I've got other things I have to be doing.  No script will ever help me with this.  I will grant you this, I do use the snap tilling mod (which is essentially a geo-placement for tilling, mind you that you still have to aim and right click), not that I cannot till an 8x4 without it (because I can), but because it reduces the chance of me erring in tilling placement which can result in throwing me out of sync with my teammates (because yes, our time management is also methodically planned).

Go-here and go-there scripts are equally useless as they will run you straight into obstacles.  I don't have time for that nonsense either.

Clocks, counters, timers, and current craving reminders, are all things which can be managed and tracked on a separate monitor outside of the game, or even by pen & paper and by stopwatches.  Having them in the game via a mod is simply a convenience.

In conclusion, if you think the tournament should be without mods, I'm fine with that.  However, if you think that is really going to level the playing field so that you or others can compete with those on the leader boards without having done the work, i.e. planning, practicing, and honing your skills, then you're sorely mistaken.

 

On another note, I'm greatly disheartened by all the complaining that has been occurring in this thread.  So Klei is offering some exclusive portraits and icons as rewards... So what?  Since the onset of DST there have exclusive loyalty skins, puzzle skins, and event skins (include exclusive beta event portraits, etc.).  Many of us, including myself, have missed out on some of these things and for various reasons.  Just because a small handful of obsessive "collectors" have the time (that many us do not have) to grind and weave non-tradable and non-marketable stuffs, as well as the possible the funds to purchase the rare skins, in no way should be a factor to discourage Klei from doing what they want to do with the tournament they want to hold, nor what rewards they want to offer.  Klei and DST are not obligated to focus upon and fulfill your individual wants or desires; nor mine.

Cheers!

[Catteflyterpill]

3 minutes ago, Hotblack Desiato 42 said:

As I am someone on the leader boards (currently 7th place for the high scoring three person teams).  I can state that you are factually wrong.  If you think that it's all scripting and no skill, then I challenge you to place yourself on the leader boards using solely said scripting rather than any developed skills.

 

Myself and my teammates have extensively planned and practiced our scoring runs.  We have every aspect of our runs planned to quite minute details, e.g. early game money management (i.e. who gets what coins and exactly what they'll be spending it on) to mid-game role management (i.e. who cooks syrup, does fishing, and who cooks slow oven dishes, and when to do these things).  We have cut our teeth with extensive in game research, such as to discover how to cook dishes in a set-it-cooking-and-leave-it methodology.  That is we've experimented to find out just the right amount of fuel (from the various fuels available) to slow cook a dish so that it fully cooks, but doesn't burn.
 

Now let me tell you something about the script mods.  They're worthless.  Auto-tilling scripts order the plots in a one-two-three pattern, where it will completely till plot one, then completely till plot two, and then finally plot three.  Same goes auto-planting scripts.  When tilling and planting crops in the plots I want my wheat on the two end plots and my veg in the middle.  I also want to till only in the plot I need to till in and only enough to suit my purposes, because I've got other things I have to be doing.  No script will ever help me with this.  I will grant you this, I do use the snap tilling mod (which is essential a geo-placement for tilling, mind you that you still have to aim and right click), not that I cannot till an 8x4 without it (because I can), but because it reduces the chance of me erring in tilling placement which can result in throwing me out of sync with my teammates (because yes, our time management is also methodically planned).

Go-here and go-there scripts are equally useless as they will run you straight into obstacles.  I don't have time for that nonsense either.

Clocks, counters, timers, and current craving reminders, are all things which can be managed and tracked on a separate monitor outside of the game, or even by pen & paper and by stopwatches.  Having them in the game via a mod is simply a convenience.

In conclusion, if you think the tournament should be without mods, I'm fine with that.  However, if you think that is really going to level the playing field so that you or others can compete with those on the leader boards without having done the work, i.e. planning, practicing, and honing your skills, then you're sorely mistaken.

 

On another note, I'm greatly disheartened by all the complaining that has been occurring in this thread.  So Klei is offer some exclusive portraits and icons as rewards... So what?  Since the onset of DST there have exclusive loyalty skins, puzzle skins, and event skins (include exclusive beta event portraits, etc.).  Many of us, including myself, have missed out on some of these things and for various reasons.  Just because a small handful of obsessive "collectors" have the time (that many us do not have) to grind and weave non-tradable and non-marketable stuffs, as well as the possible the funds to purchase the rare skins, in no way should be a factor to discourage Klei from doing what they want to do with the tournament they want to hold, nor what rewards they want to offer.  Klei and DST are not obligated to focus upon and fulfill your individual wants or desires; nor mine.

Cheers!

Ladies and gentlemen. The one we sing songs and write tales of. A legend. A professional. A man faster than a speeding bullet with mind and mouse, able to tame the Gnaw.

honestly though, the people on the leader board's are very impressive. and i think the competition is a cool new way for Klei to explore things while giving players an oppurtunity to shine. good luck out there in the competition 

 

[Crystal Kourosh]

so what happened to gamecodes?

[Hotblack Desiato 42]

@Catteflyterpill

While I really don't mind the sarcasm, the point of my post was that many have worked very hard to achieve what they've achieved.  And it just irks me when some curmudgeon tries to undermine all those efforts with vacuous and fallacious claims.

 

 

[Fuffles]

Honestly Imma throw my few cents into this
 I feel like the prizes should be something kinda different, I like them, yet the community seems to be exploding all over the place...
First of all, I'd like to present my option on the background and icon, the icons and backgrounds should be something that work in a way, that the higher tier is not a locked for ever item. The background and icon have to occupy the same slot as the Gold, Silver, Bronze and Participator Backgrounds. Then I feel like the Prizes should be a little revamped. That's where a new "Tier" comes in, The Platinum. I feel like it would honestly suck to be 2nd in this tournament, you give everything yet to nothing good. and here are some prize revamps that would work out better imo

Platinum - Top Team - All Skins, Icons, Portraits, for the Gorge , Platinum Tier Background and Icon, Hamlet Key (This Key assures that you will get Hamlet as soon as it comes out in December, it gets released, it gets added to your game library)

Gold - 2nd and 3rd Best Teams - Survivors and Belongings Chest, Gold Tier Portrait and Icon

Silver - 4th - 10th Best Teams - Belongings Chest, Silver Tier Portrait and Icon

Bronze - 11th - 100th Best Teams - 25 Gorge Chests, Participator Tier Portrait and Bronze Tier Icon

Participant - Anyone hat entered the Tournament - 1 Gorge Chest, Particiaptor Tier Portrait and Icon

This way everyone will have something and will p. much assure ppl won't cry that they can't get the Gold Icon and Portrait for example. And the Instant Hamlet Unlock on release would make people really really want to win the tournament because the Hamlet Trailer was something epic.
But then again this is just an idea...

[HamBatter]

Are figuring out how scoring works and disconnecting for seeds going to be part of this?

For the previous it might be fine to give an advantage to those who have invested more in exploring the options, but for the latter it would be better to have a less time-consuming way to get one of the better starts for most categories.

[Ressayez]

1 hour ago, Hotblack Desiato 42 said:

@Catteflyterpill

While I really don't mind the sarcasm, the point of my post was that many have worked very hard to achieve what they've achieved.  And it just irks me when some curmudgeon tries to undermine all those efforts with vacuous and fallacious claims.

I don't think they said what they did out of spite or malice, but rather out of concern, and a lack of knowledge of what mods and external programs are capable of. Calling their claims vacuous is rather insulting, naive, ignorant, maybe, but these people aren't stupid just because they don't know to what extent things like scripts affect the top teams. Same goes for everyone else expressing their concerns on this thread, I think whether or not they're right about how useful scripts are in The Gorge or not, doesn't matter, use of mods and the state of the servers should be addressed. Perhaps they should integrate some things the various mods for The Gorge already have. Add optional timers, show the cravings to the entire team and stop forcing players to cycle through dialogue to hear the craving if they missed it for the sake of the tournament.

One last thing, don't take other's ignorance personally, you know that you've achieved some incredible things, at least, I hope you do. I think what you've managed is impressive.

[Szczuku]

I'm not going to lie- I hope that Klei makes a lvl restriction, that only players above 30/40 can participate in the tournament. Because right now noobs jump from 1 to 20 lvl thanks to the "kind experienced players". How do I know that? Because I was that "kind experienced player". I had a lvl 1 player that didn't want to leave because "It's my FIRST time playing this". At least he wasn't speaking Russian... After explaining how to make salt and trade wood for poop we did a speedrun. A SPEEDRUN! You get less exp from a speedrun than from a 40 min long match. And this guy still jumped from 1 to 14. At the beggining of the Gorge when you saw a 20+ lvl you thought that they were an experienced player. Right now if you see a 20+ lvl you pray that they know how to make salt.

[Extant]

18 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I'm not going to lie- I hope that Klei makes a lvl restriction, that only players above 30/40 can participate in the tournament. Because right now noobs jump from 1 to 20 lvl thanks to the "kind experienced players". How do I know that? Because I was that "kind experienced player". I had a lvl 1 player that didn't want to leave because "It's my FIRST time playing this". At least he wasn't speaking Russian... After explaining how to make salt and trade wood for poop we did a speedrun. A SPEEDRUN! You get less exp from a speedrun than from a 40 min long match. And this guy still jumped from 1 to 14. At the beggining of the Gorge when you saw a 20+ lvl you thought that they were an experienced player. Right now if you see a 20+ lvl you pray that they know how to make salt.

As a fellow gorge player who started since it was launched in BETA, it's true. Lv20 back then really did mean something because we struggled so hard to even find a way to get a victory at all. Now that the best paths have been discovered, it's simply a matter of following the footsteps to reach the mountain peak.

I am very happy on one end as many people thanked me for my guide that allowed them to reach their first win. On the other hand, I am also worried about the assumptions and expectations that come with those fast-gained levels.

I am not against people leveling up fast nor am I against them being assisted. What I am against is those that don't communicate or flat out refuse to broaden their knowledge about the event simply due to being too lazy and wanting to be carried by others.

While a minimum level cap would help filter out some of the lesser experienced players, it would not solve all the problems as it's quite possible that someone could've reached lv50+ by being helped through all the achievements.

I believe that the greatest universal asset overall for this event, prior events, and future events is communication. I'm not sure what everyone else's experience is trying to talk to others in DST, but mine has not been as good as I had hoped. It seems hard to even get anyone to chat in-game (which I know some of the issue lies in people not speaking the same language as you), but there are others that I know for a fact speak English but don't say anything for whatever reason.

Please don't be shy about talking to others even if you're a newer player. Especially if you're a newer player. Let others know what your experience is, what role you're comfortable with, which character you're good at, and what you have and haven't accomplished thus far. A team with newer players who are willing to talk to each other and willing to learn will do better in the long run than a random group that has somewhat experienced players but never says a word to each other.

This is Don't Starve Together, not Don't Speak Together. Take a deep breath, conquer those fears, and say hello to the world!

Also, they did mention that they're going to add some qualification process so I believe it's safe to assume that everyone who joins will at least have a functioning brain (no zombies allowed, sorry).

[fimmatek]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

I'm not going to lie- I hope that Klei makes a lvl restriction, that only players above 30/40 can participate in the tournament. Because right now noobs jump from 1 to 20 lvl thanks to the "kind experienced players". How do I know that? Because I was that "kind experienced player". I had a lvl 1 player that didn't want to leave because "It's my FIRST time playing this". At least he wasn't speaking Russian... After explaining how to make salt and trade wood for poop we did a speedrun. A SPEEDRUN! You get less exp from a speedrun than from a 40 min long match. And this guy still jumped from 1 to 14. At the beggining of the Gorge when you saw a 20+ lvl you thought that they were an experienced player. Right now if you see a 20+ lvl you pray that they know how to make salt.

I know it's true that level 20 players not always have actual experience (I carried beginners too), but excluding them from the Tournament would be unfair. Why lock them out of participation?

I agree that I wouldn't want to work with beginners on the Tournament, but do you really want to participate with randoms on it? If not, because you have (or will find) a good team, then beginners won't hinder you anyways.

 

[DragonMage156]

Tomorrow? But that's the Jouste stream! >u<

[GLERMZ]

For all the people crying out there that you can't get everything, thats the point. The rewards it self are not even a big deal and i even feel they should have been more exclusive, like a really good Ingame Skin, even when i'm not getting in the TOP 3 by any chance.

In any game there is rewards for people who Master an aspect of the game, even if takes them 24 hours of practice. If you don't have the time for it, or will for it, too bad. It's a game, it's a tournament and it's something to reward the comitment of certain players.

Stop crying everytime you can't get something in a game, and praise what you have been given already. I bet my ass that you play a lot of other games where you can't get all the skins/collectiables you want, if it's a multiplayer competitive one. 

[Bleksmits]

Tis is not Don't Starve Together this is Gorge different game, even if it runs form same application. wining this and showing your mega cool achievement to another dst players maybe will only upset them... so be careful out there Don't Die^^

[Nullum]

Let the "portrait frame" have the changes instead of putting out exclusive portraits. It can be applied to any portrait along with the border that surrounds the profile icons. That way we all have a happy ending for both competitive Gorge players and skin collectors.

 

Note: 

If I said portrait frame I mean the frame itself. The same applies to the profile icons. 

[watermelen671]

8 hours ago, crystal_clodet said:

so what happened to gamecodes?

Laws.

1 hour ago, Aeschwutz said:

Let the "portrait frame" have the changes instead of putting out exclusive portraits. It can be applied to any portrait along with the border that surrounds the profile icons. That way we all have a happy ending for both competitive Gorge players and skin collectors.

Note: 

If I said portrait frame I mean the frame itself. The same applies to the profile icons. 

Ooooh, that actually sounds cool. 

[Crystal Kourosh]

56 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Laws.

i cri evry tiem

[Missatan]

36 minutes ago, GLERMZ said:

In any game there is rewards for people who Master an aspect of the game, even if takes them 24 hours of practice. If you don't have the time for it, or will for it, too bad. It's a game, it's a tournament and it's something to reward the comitment of certain players.

The Gorge wasn't out for long enough and isn't permanent feature to be called aspect of the main game - it's just event that probably not gonna come back for next 1-2 years.

36 minutes ago, GLERMZ said:

Stop crying everytime you can't get something in a game, and praise what you have been given already. I bet my ass that you play a lot of other games where you can't get all the skins/collectiables you want, if it's a multiplayer competitive one. 

"Given" - I want to remind you that Complete Set of skins costs more than game itself, others still have to rng them from chests or stack spools. DST isn't focused on PVP nor balanced in this aspect.

[GLERMZ]

22 hours ago, Missatan said:

The Gorge wasn't out for long enough and isn't permanent feature to be called aspect of the main game - it's just event that probably not gonna come back for next 1-2 years.

"Given" - I want to remind you that Complete Set of skins costs more than game itself, others still have to rng them from chests or stack spools. DST isn't focused on PVP nor balanced in this aspect.

Everything you've been given in the last 2 years was for the price of 15€ (2 copies of the game) 

Don't throw me a tantrum over skin prices.

[Missatan]

1 minute ago, GLERMZ said:

Everything you've been given in the last 2 years was for the price of 15€ (2 copies of the game) 

Don't throw me a tantrum on me over skin prices.

More like "earned" in case of skins.

[watermelen671]

3 hours ago, GLERMZ said:

I bet my ass 

Spoiler

No seriously, that's a big nono here on the forums, you should probably change it before the mods smite you.

36 minutes ago, GLERMZ said:

Everything you've been given in the last 2 years was for the price of 15€ (2 copies of the game) 

Don't throw me a tantrum on me over skin prices.

What? Why would I throw a tantrum on you? I don't even know you! It'd be a violation of my personal bubble regardless...but still!

You could've made a more substantiated claim if you'd just said that buying the skin packs funds Klei's further efforts to provide us more content. Because that's the truth, Klei even said so themselves. It costs money to make these events, and they don't want to segregate the community behind an event paywall. That's why they give us the option to buy skins upfront: it directly funds their efforts to give us more stuff.

On 12/4/2017 at 12:56 PM, JoeW said:

Is The Forge free?
Yes! Events are free for everyone who owns DST. Players will have the option to purchase a single character’s Warrior Skin Set for $2.99, or the entire Warrior Skin Set collection for $12.99. 

We hope that with this mechanism, we can both continue creating great free content while also supporting the development team. In addition, this method of funding allows us to provide content to all our players, instead of splitting the player community if we implemented it with a DLC paywall.

Spoiler

Pulled from: 

 

 

[YueShihua]

As a skin collector, I'm miserable....

I was considering if I would give up sleeping and eating in order to get my golden skins. Would my friends do the same with me?

I have collected all of the skin, all of the collections, although I lack of Timeless “Tragic Torch”, but I have a loyal one to substitute it, at that time I am very uncomfortable, but I have to accept the reality, I am very grateful to the klei.

Now, is klei going to make me completely mad for the exclusive skin of Gorge? I don't know if I can get it. Maybe I will try my best to get the first ranking. My friend and I can ask for leave to play games, but is it really worth it?

I'm going crazy....
 

rip.....

 

I am a 4000+ hour player, I really love DST, but I am very sad now ...