Confirmation of every character having a skill tree ?

[Malfario]

When refering to the the ability of choose a side, devs said that wilson is the only character that can do so right now and that other characters will be able to do it in the same way as he does.

And on the last patch notes it is said that the reaper whispers to those players who have shadow affinity enable.

And this is not a wilson exclusive thing as in the code there are quotes exclusive to woodie in which the reaper throws beef at lucy.

For me this is sort of enough clues that every character will have a skilltree and every skilltree will have the affinity branch with a shadow/moon perk.

I imagine that on the same style as wilson these affinity perks will bring a new ability to the character as well as some pasive bonusses:

I picture it like, for example, wolfgang can craft either the dreadstone dumpbell or the pure brilliance dumpbell wich do cool new stuff, but also his dmg multiplier affects the planar dmg of the weapons of the side he chooses to be aligned with.

[BezKa]

I've been playing a game with a skill tree as one of the core mechanics, and let me just tell you if Klei gives up on any creativity and just smacks a skill tree on every character I will literally cry. I am so done with the goddamn skill trees. It's **** for Wilson, it's **** for the game I'm playing, I hate skill trees where skill trees are not necessary.

There are other ways to achieve the goal.

[HowlVoid]

I for one welcome skills trees.

Another layer set forth on our survivors, while also being completely optional. Skill trees allow another level of customization that may differentiate one Wigfrid from another (besides the surface level skins). 

I would greatly hope I can shun away from wormwoods disgusting, deplorable, and otherwise dreary farming skills for more green craft oriented ones. 

[Malfario]

11 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I've been playing a game with a skill tree as one of the core mechanics, and let me just tell you if Klei gives up on any creativity and just smacks a skill tree on every character I will literally cry. I am so done with the goddamn skill trees. It's **** for Wilson, it's **** for the game I'm playing, I hate skill trees where skill trees are not necessary.

There are other ways to achieve the goal.

i dont see why adding skilltrees will be given upon creativity, a skill tree can be done in a creative way, and more important the perks that you can achieve with it, and if you simply dont like them as a mechanic i can totally understand it and i think your opinion is as valid as mine.

For all we know each character could have its unique way of gaining insight points, unique way in which the abilitys unfold and a long etc.

But objectevly speaking the adition of skilltrees are not given up creativity, because these are the DST skill trees, they are not a reap off of other game. And the skilltree to wilson is not ****, because it didnt make anything worse, you can say that you didnt like it, but the reality is that wilson now has more to do, is a more versatile character respecting the original idea of being the default one, and if still you dont like it you can just not enable any of his perks and play him as before,a dn the same will be done to the rest of characters.

[Cassielu]

That doesn't sound like something the DST would do... But please don't let it come true! Don't make skill tree for each character and let them get Moon/Shadow affinity in their own unique way! kitschy shadow idol or mani battlesong, whatever.

[Antynomity]

If they are coming cool, if not, whatever, Wilson will still be my fav with one just because of transmutation.

[gamehun20]

8 minutes ago, Malfario said:

i dont see why adding skilltrees will be given upon creativity, a skill tree can be done in a creative way

Because skill trees are lame as hell

[HowlVoid]

I mean can we outline the endless possibilities for a second?

Willow no longer crippled by enlightenment

Woodie actually having a use for Lucy 

Wurt not needing a king in two shards

Wanda ageing slower or faster (with appropriate drawbacks and boons)

Fire falsetto actually useful???!!!!111???!!!1!11111???!!!1111 (???!!!!1!1!???!!!)

Etc etc

I mean, it's just endless fun. 

[PunkShark]

Personally i wouldn't say that affinities = skill tree. 
The skill tree is Wilson's thing, his unique ability in his kit. And the reason why he has a skill tree to begin with is to help new players feel like they're being rewarded for surviving. By this standpoint the other survivors do not need that. 

Affinities as i see it will be its own separate thing. Maybe It'll act like how Wilson does but certainly not in the same margain as the skill tree. 
The scope for a skill tree for every survivor would take countless of updates to fully flesh out and i don't think Klei wants to do refresh 2.0 Skill tree edition.

[Brago-sama]

Id love if warly could finally share his crockpots thru skill trees at the sacrifice of something... or hey maybe his skill trees jusy full of cool crockpot recipies lol

They probably wont come, but its fun to theory craft

[Captain_Rage]

8 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I for one welcome skills trees.

Actually, I wouldn't mind them, even though it would feel misplaced in DST. That being said, in the majority of games with skill trees they are executed rather (or very) poorly, hence it's better to stay clear of them. If there was a skill tree with actual clever design, sure, otherwise I will stick to what BezKa wrote.

The typical problem with skill trees is that some branches tend to be pointless or underwhelming while others are the opposite, or that they all are similar enough to make the whole thing underwhelming.

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Wurt not needing a king in two shards

You do know that's not possible right that's why the shadow storage is not linked through shards too

[BezKa]

3 minutes ago, Malfario said:

Objectevly speaking the adition of skilltrees are not given up creativity, because these are the DST skill trees, they are not a reap off of other game. And the skilltree to wilson is not ****, because it didnt make anything worse, you can say that you didnt like it, but the reality is that wilson now has more to do, is a more versatile character respecting the original idea of being the default one, and if still you dont like it you can just not enable any of his perks and play him as before,a dn the same will be done to the rest of characters.

I don't deny it. And yes, this is mostly about my personal preferences.

But i just can't help but see how the skill tree sticks out like a sore thumb. Usually, what was in the game was in the game, not in a separate part of the menu. If you wanted a perk in your world, you had to earn it by doing something. Even waiting counts, if you think about lure plants or whatever. Character perks were there because they were people who went through different lives and suffered the consequences and reaped from their victories. Wigfrid committed to the bit, got stronger, but committing meant no more eating anything that isn't meat. Wolfgang was a scared, sensitive person, but he had a dream and worked towards it and got strong.

I imagined Wilson would either be sadly omitted due to the whole "starting character" nonsense, but I had hoped Klei would give him something personal. He lived through the constant, he survived the Adventure Mode, he sat on the throne for a bit. There were many many possibilities on what he could have that showed off who he is, what he lost along the way.

In some sense the tree works this way. But it feels so disconnected from him, like the perks are literal mods you "download" with insight. And sure, this is a lot of "feelings" but that's just the human experience.

Skill trees work in a game like ONI because they make sense in the context of the world, they're also not one and done thing, you have to adjust them for every duplicant in every world.

I see no space for skill trees in DST. Even for Wilson they had to add an additional button in the wardrobe of all places?...

And yeah, "don't like it don't use it" is a fine argument and all but it can be hard looking at what we got and not think about what could have been. That applies to everything ever but whatev.

 

[HowlVoid]

10 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

You do know that's not possible right that's why the shadow storage is not linked through shards too

I know the limitations you only saw the surface level of what I was implying. I meant she could gain her blessings through other darker means in the caves or enlightened ones in the surface.

You need to look past the surface layer of what's possible.

11 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Actually, I wouldn't mind them, even though it would feel misplaced in DST. That being said, in the majority of games with skill trees they are executed rather (or very) poorly, hence it's better to stay clear of them. If there was a skill tree with actual clever design, sure, otherwise I will stick to what BezKa wrote.

The typical problem with skill trees is that some branches tend to be pointless or underwhelming while others are the opposite, or that they all are similar enough to make the whole thing underwhelming.

As someone else has said, the most likely outcome is affinities is something else so I was just having fun theory crafting.

As it stands you most likely get your "affinity" when opening the first set of portals like giving the shadow hands the dreadstone (or some similar pact). It has been stated that this first round of armor sets will have upgrades. The line of upgrades you have access to will mostly be tied to your affinity or something of that nature (or having higher power with them). 

Skill trees for all characters would be like a second coming of refreshes. And Klei has stated they became quite bored of those! So yeah... But it's still fun to think about!

[D_Good_Fellow]

Skill trees aren't necessarily the only way for this to work.

Wilson was given a skill tree as part of his refresh. In the past Klei has said the refreshes were meant to make the characters play more like they already do, so my impression was always that Wilson's skill tree was meant to reflect the early DS days of slowly unlocking characters by surviving long enough. You unlock Wilson's skills similarly to how you unlocked new playable characters (which by extension represented new skills) in the original. Imo this approach wouldn't work with every character. I personally don't love it for Wilson, but it's extremely non-intrusive so it doesn't really bother me while playing (my only real gripe is his torch skills feel random and upstage Willow). 

I honestly think there are a lot of fun possibilities for how characters can become shadow/moon aligned. I think character-specific craftable items are the safest route, specifically ones you can only make after defeating Fuelweaver/Celestial Champion similar to Wilson's alignment skills (shadow/lunar circuits for WX, shadow/lunar books for Wickerbottom, shattered/cave spider items for Webber, etc.). Maybe Wurt could do something where the Merm King becomes Shadow/Lunar aligned. Maybe items like Bernie or Winona's spotlight could be upgraded depending on the side you choose (Bernie could damage Gestalts, the spotlight could scare away shadow creatures).

Honestly though the fact that there's only one more update in this arc suggests to me that however the choice is made, it will probably be uniform outside of Wilson. I hope it isn't the case, but my expectation is that ultimately non-Wilson alignment will just be determined by interacting with Wagstaff/Charlie again.

[BezKa]

And as for other ways to achieve the goal:

Forgive the abhorrent quality I did not put in any effort.

And it's just one of the endless better options than the skilltrees.

[Zeklo]

If I'm not mistaken, when they originally spoke about other characters being able to pick a side like Wilson, they clarified it not necessarily being in the same manner.

I recall the phrasing being a bit vague though, so perhaps I misinterpreted it.

[Mysterious box]

Personally I'm in favor of skill trees I understand the bad taste it could end up leaving but the refreshes kinda put us in a state where a fair bit of the cast kinda blends together perk wise so this is a chance to give somewhat more meaningful differences.

[Hornete]

It would be a bit of work but part of me hopes that each character gets their own unique path for aligning. In my mind I imagined it kind of like the unique character unlocks in solo DS for Webber/Wilbur/Wilba, unique ""quests"" for each character to pursue to reach their alignment. We havent gotten the alignments for the rest of the cast yet so I think they're taking their time to perfect it as much as they can!

My friends have heard me moan how much I dont like skill trees already. But what I like DS/T for is interacting with its world and mechanics and gaining new abilities/items/whatever through that. Clicking on a UI after completing some goal like surviving a set amount of days sounds... really boring to me. It's fine as a gimmick for Wilson, but if it's for every single character, I'll be really bored out of my mind haha.

I see people listing ideas as selectable perks for characters, but frankly, a lot of the ideas I've seen here I'd like to just see directly integrated into the characters anyways without any need for a skill tree haha. E.g. Merm King working across shards, Willow not simply becoming a fire immune Wilson in a state of enlightenment, etc.

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

You do know that's not possible right that's why the shadow storage is not linked through shards too

Missed this, but this is possible! The reason why shadow storage is not linked is because trying to transport and synchronize items across multiple shards would be very unreliable. 

Merm King synchronizing across shards would be much more plausible.

[gamehun20]

26 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Missed this, but this is possible! The reason why shadow storage is not linked is because trying to transport and synchronize items across multiple shards would be very unreliable. 

Oh manure right yeah i forgot it was this and not the thing i said lol sorry for the misinformation 

[Neu7ral]

Pretty much inevitable.

And I will embrace it, with welcoming arms.

 

3 hours ago, BezKa said:

And it's just one of the endless better options than the skilltrees.

However this idea really REALLY rocks.

[ADM]

Honestly I would be welcoming skills tree for everyone, but hang on, I'm fully aware they could be terrible if they are to come... it's all up to Klei to not drop the ball and not release bad ones!

 

My main motivation for skill trees on others is that there's is a few characters I just don't really want to play due to some segs of their gameplay being overall not as fun as I would have liked it I've got you an example with how I feel about WX-78 :

I think it's too bad there is no way to get over 6 circuit slots, grinding for bio-data is too mob-pen dependant to not grind around the world for them later on, changing circuits too often breaks them awfully fast, some circuits are meh, Jimmy is... Jimmy. It's just so many things that can totally be accepted individually as of now since you know what restrictions you're suggested to play around by not changing circuits as often as I would want to and etc.

But with all of that it would be too ideal to just slap a skill tree on WX-78 so I could equalize each segments to be bits better and focus one to be even greater, not all character could maybe have a total of 15 points, maybe 10 for certain ? I'd like to have more slots, less durability loss on circuits, Jimmy to be done with their stuff faster (+ range + move speed - time to scan), use the 3x3 tree to make specific circuits better, and less time to put on getting bio data, and hey, put us some nice surprise maybe in here.

 

Since Klei is finished with refreshes it's most likely the chars will be left more or less untouched now, which would sucks for some. But if they had skill trees a lot of the lacking things I find with them COULD be solved, there COULD be some very spicy things that would motivate me playing Wigfrid (level impossible) or more for others.

All that would also totally not affect Wilson since his skill tree is definitively just awfully cool for the middle branch, the torch one I get is underwhelming it could have worked for the lantern and miner hat too... hopefully other trees will not have their values to be "slightly, a little, a lot (according to who?)" in a whole branch focused on only one narrow thing.

[GenomeSquirrel]

I might like it to reverse sanity gaining character abilities.

[Paxtonnnn]

17 hours ago, Cassielu said:

kitschy shadow idol or mani battlesong, whatever.

I really, really like this idea. I imagine they'd be crafted with items from their respective rifts, it could be interesting

[-Variant]

15 hours ago, Zeklo said:

If I'm not mistaken, when they originally spoke about other characters being able to pick a side like Wilson, they clarified it not necessarily being in the same manner.

I recall the phrasing being a bit vague though, so perhaps I misinterpreted it.

This! You lot should've tuned into the Rhymes with Play live stream, they pretty much confirmed all of this and more back during it. It was super fun too.

Other characters being able to pick sides was confirmed wayyy back then, though they noted it wouldn't be 1:1 with Wilson. I don't imagine everyone is going to get their own entirely dedicated skill trees, at that.