Better and tougher downside for Wanda?

[ZombieDupe]

I think it has already been voiced that Wanda's new downside is outweighed by her powers, but I'm not hearing many suggestions for a better downside. I don't really have ideas for it myself, so this thread is for brainstorming if you have felt the challenging side of the character lacking. One idea could be having something to do with sanity capping lower as she ages, or her sanity going down every time she uses a watch, kind of like how Wickerbottom's sanity goes down every time she reads a book. Maybe more nightmare creatures spawning by default when she's insane for example, that could prove to be challenging, and fit well with her new character short.

I know this can make her tougher to master as a character for inexperienced players, though she is already a character pretty much exclusively for more professional players, and if the difficulty curve were to twist in future development plans, this could be a great challenge character with great benefits overall. Not being entirely original here, but it's a step up in my opinion.

[Hornete]

Her downside is pretty tough and challenging as is, you have only your watch for healing, quite literally nothing else in the game can heal you. Crafting more watches is also going to take quite some resources, (red gems, thule pieces, etc) so you may be stuck with your one watch for quite a small bit. Not to mention you also can't outheal tick damage like starvation, overheating and freezing(As being damaged cancels Wanda's heal, and vice versa), so those things can be even more dangerous to her if she's caught in them.

Heh, i've found so many people thinking they can get cocky with going to her old age only to end up dying(I've also evidently gotten a bit cocky at times )

 

[SomebodyRandom]

Oh god not again. You of all people  

[Cheggf]

16 minutes ago, Hornete said:

As being damaged cancels Wanda's heal, and vice versa

So the watch can effectively heal for more than 8 years if you use it as your age is still ticking up?

[CarlZalph]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

So the watch can effectively heal for more than 8 years if you use it as your age is still ticking up?

A DoT tick stops all 'healing' from the watch, so you won't get 8 years if actively starving as the starving tick stops the heals.

[Misa22]

Yeah well, when you test the character with creative mode she is a beast, but when you actually play her in an actual world you are stuck with her basic kit for quite some time. 

I rushed the ruins for a purple gem (to get the slappy clock) after no luck with grave digging and died on my first try because I just didn't expect to die so quickly, getting caught by a bishop and some terrorbeaks and things escalated extremely quick. 

EDIT: Also freezing is insanely dangerous as you guys are saying. 

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, CarlZalph said:

A DoT tick stops all 'healing' from the watch, so you won't get 8 years if actively starving as the starving tick stops the heals.

No, he said "and vice versa" so I'm asking if you get hit by a normal attack and as your age is ticking up you use the watch it will effectively restore more than 8 years since it stops the incoming damage then starts lowering your age by 8. Is that how it works?

[CarlZalph]

Just now, Cheggf said:

No, he said "and vice versa" so I'm asking if you get hit by a normal attack and as your age is ticking up you use the watch it will effectively restore more than 8 years since it stops the incoming damage then starts lowering your age by 8. Is that how it works?

Ah, I see.  Yeah it also stops all negative effects on use too.

Theoretical situation:  Wanda gets hit for infinite damage at age 20.  The numbers produced are capped such that she ages 30 years per second for an infinite duration.  It would thus kill her in 2 seconds, and it takes less time to activate the heal watch.  Thus, it's possible to survive an infinite damage dealing hit as Wanda as the watch negates all pending damage.

[Misa22]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

No, he said "and vice versa" so I'm asking if you get hit by a normal attack and as your age is ticking up you use the watch it will effectively restore more than 8 years since it stops the incoming damage then starts lowering your age by 8. Is that how it works?

In any case, it stops the damage ticks and start the healing ticks.

You won't heal more, but I understand what you mean. 

[Hornete]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

No, he said "and vice versa" so I'm asking if you get hit by a normal attack and as your age is ticking up you use the watch it will effectively restore more than 8 years since it stops the incoming damage then starts lowering your age by 8. Is that how it works?

Yes!



It's niche, but you can tank a theoretically infinite amount of damage from one hit.

[QuartzBeam]

39 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I think it has already been voiced that Wanda's new downside is outweighed by her powers

By whom?

[Mike23Ua]

As an Xbox Player- Where lag is probably MUCH more frequent then PC, even on the Series X console- I hate Wanda’s design.. it is near impossible to NOT take hits.. I love her gameplay, I love her mechanics but Jesus did I not account for the problems NOT being able to kite properly would cause.

Because of this, Wanda’s Downside is perfectly FINE let’s leave her as she is.. Otherwise your tempting to make her literally unplayable on Xbox console.

However- I do absolutely ADORE the thought of having normally peaceful Catcoons attack her and STEAL her Shiny Highly important Watches (much like Pegomastix steals your loot when they attack you in Ark Survival Evolved) not only is that absolutely ADORABLE but it would make me feel bad for having to kill the little guys to get my watches back. 

[Viktor234]

16 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Her downside is pretty tough and challenging as is, you have only your watch for healing, quite literally nothing else in the game can heal you. Crafting more watches is also going to take quite some resources, (red gems, thule pieces, etc) so you may be stuck with your one watch for quite a small bit. Not to mention you also can't outheal tick damage like starvation, overheating and freezing(As being damaged cancels Wanda's heal, and vice versa), so those things can be even more dangerous to her if she's caught in them.

Heh, i've found so many people thinking they can get cocky with going to her old age only to end up dying(I've also evidently gotten a bit cocky at times )

• Her Time Pieces don't require any Thulecite at all, you can use Thulecite Fragments to craft them but that's a waste of Thulecite
• Death doesn't punish Wanda at all which means that healing yourself is kinda pointless when playing as Wanda:
  • Crafting Telltale Hearts is literally free for Wanda (she can't use Spider Glands and the health loss can be negated with 2 uses of her healing clock), and others can revive Wanda with a Telltale Heart without applying a health penalty on her
  • If you have a 2nd Wanda nearby then she can revive you with her revive clock for free while also restoring your stats for you and vice versa
  • Only if you're playing alone you might get punished for dying since haunting the revive clock consumes 50% of its ressources, Wanda doesn't drop Bone Shards on death and you can't revive yourself with a Telltale Heart

She might be "tough" in Singleplayer, but in Multiplayer she even doesn't get punished for death (Actually, she gets rewarded with 20 years of health which are about 2.5 uses of her healing clock, 1.5 days of hunger, and a sanity reset if she dies).

Where's the need for survival if you get rewarded for failing to survive when playing as Wanda?

[FreyaMaluk]

no need. she is already in a good place

[Toros]

The whip bug does need to be fixed because it’s not intended that Wanda is able to stunlock targets the way she currently can.

 

Wanda is currently strong, but she has a fairly hard skill requirement for not getting dunked.  The watch cooldown is long relative to combat length and you can’t have hundreds of healing in one slot like if you were eating pierogis or dragonpies.

 

I don’t think she needs additional nerfing at this time.

[ZombieDupe]

4 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

By whom?

It was mentioned briefly here sort of? I expanded on the talking point a little but that's about it on the pros countering cons part. But it appears it is being talked more about here now. Her downside looks more of a downside early on and then later isn't something much to struggle with unless you lose your watches.

[SomebodyRandom]

5 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

It was mentioned briefly here sort of?

Those were people complaining before the character even released, shouldn't listen to them.

[QuartzBeam]

14 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

It was mentioned briefly here sort of? I expanded on the talking point a little but that's about it on the pros countering cons part. But it appears it is being talked more about here now. Her downside looks more of a downside early on and then later isn't something much to struggle with unless you lose your watches.

SomebodyRandom beat me to it, but yeah, these posts are going off the Klei Ambassador beta version.
The two common complaints people had with the beta (insane damage on the unfueled alarming clock and functional immortality via the second chance watch) were both fixed before Wanda was made available to the public.

[Friendly Grass]

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

I think it has already been voiced that Wanda's new downside is outweighed by her powers

Oh my gosh like literally every single character?

[QuartzBeam]

2 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

Oh my gosh like literally every single character?

Remember, kids: If a character is worth playing, they're OP.

[Mike23Ua]

25 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

unless you lose your watches.

 

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Catcoons attack her and STEAL her Shiny Highly important Watches.

not only is that absolutely ADORABLE but it would make me feel bad for having to kill the cute little guys to get my watches back. 

 

[Owlrust]

I'm a little hesitant about adding more downsides because of what happened to my boy Warly, all he has is downsides.

[Mike23Ua]

There is one thing that I DO find overpowered about Wanda though- and maybe this is probably a Bug.. I highly doubt it’s intended gameplay. 
 

When Wanda Dies in Endless Mode she Respawns from the portal with her watch as if entering the world for the first time.. Making it easy to stockpile watches by just intentionally dying.

[Maxil20]

I think a lot of people are judging Wanda as overpowered because of 2 things:

1. She's new, and therefore we are not exactly used to having a character with perks unique as hers yet, so when she has perks that no other character has that can certainty affect initial reactions.
2. A lot of people either watch gameplay of Wanda by fairly skilled streamers or in already established worlds, where her downsides are much less noticeable and her upsides are way more apparent.

She certainty has a lot of trouble setting up initially. Yes, if you get past that she quite possibly has the best endgame of any character ever, but that's not for a long time. You can't magically farm 82 walrus tusks before day 20, and you certainty won't have a ton of room to make a bunch of watches early on either.

Her balance is overall kept in check. She has a slow-ish early game, an alright midgame, and an exceptional lategame. She certainly has become a character I wish Klei could do more of. She has upsides that are useful in every stage of the game, and a downside that makes the early game challenging while being manageable later on.

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

When Wanda Dies in Endless Mode she Respawns from the portal with her watch as if entering the world for the first time.. Making it easy to stockpile watches by just intentionally dying.

She doesn't spawn with new watches, but she retains specific watches on death. She will never drop the ageless,backstep/trek, and alarming clock watches. I imagine they did this because Klei didn't want inexperienced players to pickup her watches while she was dead and not understand what they do or give them back, especially the ageless one.

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

She doesn't spawn with new watches, but she retains specific watches on death. She will never drop the ageless,backstep/trek, and alarming clock watches. I imagine they did this because Klei didn't want inexperienced players to pickup her watches while she was dead and not understand what they do or give them back, especially the ageless one.

see now.. that’s overpowered. 
Wendy doesn’t just Respawn with a new Abigails flower, Woodie doesn’t just Respawn with a new Ax, They actually have to travel BACK to their death locations and pick that stuff back up.

I imagine it was just an Over-Sight on Klei’s part with Wanda on her release.